AMD to Adopt DDR2 Next Year

Aarrrrgh.... by Solder+Fumes · 2005-07-21 20:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

And here I was, thinking Socket 939 was going to be good for a LONG time, and bought a new motherboard....

Oh well, it's not like motherboards are the most expensive part of a computer.

Re:Aarrrrgh.... by NerveGas · 2005-07-21 20:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

Personally, I never buy a motherboard with future CPU upgrades in mind. It's just not worth it, upgrading your CPU within the same general architecture rarely gives you much real-world performance.

The real performance boosts come from radical architectural changes - new memory subsystems, new processer types, new interconnect, etc. - and for any of those, you're going to need a new motherboard, period.

steve

--
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.

Socket A by tor528 · 2005-07-21 20:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

What happened to the good old days, when pin counts lasted years and years?

--
If I think something is funny, I will probably mod it +1 Insightful. "It's funny because it's true."

Of course they changed the socket... again... by OlivierB · 2005-07-21 20:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

They make a living out of this!

I am an Apple kind of guy.
When I switched a couple of years ago, the thing I was most upset about was the inability to upgrade my system myself.
I was afraid that with Macs I would be locked in the hardware and would have to upgrade the whole machine when I needed an upgrade. Well that's true: if you want to upgrade the CPU on your Mac you have to change your machine (Ok you could maybe buy some "overdrive" for your Mac).
Well on x86 it's the same thing!
Theoritically you could swap out your processor for a faster one, but the average production life of a CPU socket is LESS than the average time you use a CPU before thinking about upgrading it.

So on x86 when you think about upgrading that 2 year old CPU to something new, well the pin layout has changed and you need to buy a new motherboard, with new type of Ram, and now new components (SATA, PCI-X etc...)
Although you could change all these components idividually, you must admit just changing the whole machine is often a better deal.

I highly suspect intel has a built-in incentive to do so as they produce chipsets for the motherboards, and most of the chips in the new parts involved when "upgrading".

Upgrading no longer exists, it should be called "changing-my-machine".

--
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

Re:Of course they changed the socket... again... by richlv · 2005-07-21 20:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

this is happening through whole industry (and all other industries as well) - artificially reduced life span for everything.

it is possible to design compatible, long lasting technologies - but that would reduce profits. there is no long term thinking for consumer goods - of course, that's bad for environment, but who cares if only short term profit is ok ?

i've been thinking about a new computer - but when i try to select some fundamental parts to build around, i start to doubt. what disks shoulod i choose ? sata ? how long will this standard last ? what type of memory ? what motherboard factor ? what type of extension cards (ethernet, videi, sound etc) ?

for me also a big problem is interoperability - previously it was easy to test components by swapping them - change video, network, psu and check that mb again. also getting some system on feet fast was a lot easier because almost all parts were identical.

now there's a problem of finding the correct keyboard (because when i find an at, i need ps/2 and vice versa), finding correct ram is almost impossible - soon video and other cards will be incompatible with existing sets.

what about dvd* ? how long will which standard last (as can be seen, soon there will be another...) ? which of them will be the best bet for backwards compatibility ?

i plan to buy a new computer after a couple of months, but i am heavily puzzled wether that is a good idea (i'm already sure that's a bad investment ;) ).

--
Rich
Re:Of course they changed the socket... again... by iPod+is+UNIX · 2005-07-21 21:58 · Score: 3, Insightful
I learned early on never to take advice from an Apple user, they just make arguments for Apples current product line adjusting them as Apple changes directions. I'm going to present some of the most mindbaffling arguments from the Apple community that you may check with other sources and find out they are pretty much right on.

Apple products and Apple users arguments:
- The Newton, try to convince the Apple user this never was a very good PDA and by todays standard is totaly "out there", 8" x 5" x 1" inches and about a pound without batteries, for reference a palm is about 5" x 3" x 0.3" and about 0.3 pounds. The newton is still by many Apple users the PDA to have. Now ask the same Apple user why the iPod is much better then a Creative Zen. The Zen is to heavy, by 0.1 pounds.
- The time around 2000 when Apple users where still making arguments for cooperative multitasking which to the rest of the industry was pathetic and laughable. As Mac OS late but surely got preemptive multitasking by copying it from FreeBSD the Apple users finaly could lay the cooperative multitasking argument to rest. Not because preemptive was better (which it of course are) but because they had it too.
- The early stages of OS X (which really where an open beta), slow kernel, slow UI and not even easy to use. To the Apple users was of course the best thing. In reality it was so bad Apple don't even offer security patches for those machines even though they are just a few years old.
- The G4 cube. A bastardised computer, impossible to use. You needed to stand up to load a cd in the tray (top loaded). You had to turn the computer upside down to connect peripherals (all connectors was at the bottom of the case?!?). It had heat troubles taking down most of them. Of course by the Apple user touted as a marvelous piece of equipment and even today by many Apple users seen as the height of Apple design and innovation.
- The Mac Mini, we haven't seen the last of this yet I'm afraid. Of course by the Mac users seen as the future of Macs. Reality: Apple are in 2005 selling computers with 1.25ghz CPU and 4200RPM drive for $499, this excludes keyboard mouse and monitor and includes not even enough RAM to run the included operating system. If you could buy a similar spec PC (which you can't because there are no that slow) you would get at least keyboard, mouse and monitor. It will probably not take long before a hoard of not very happy Mac mini users put these to rest when they find out you can't even run todays software reasonably on a new computer, and tommorows will be next to impossible. The argument from the Mac crowd is that if you buy a Mac mini to play games you are stupid. Is there any other software for the Mac mini I must be stupid to try running?
- Unix, first let me explain that OS X is not a certified Unix. Unix is a trademark hold by Open Group and Apple is using the trademark without permission. Certified Unixes includes Solaris, True 64 HP-UX and other Big leage names. To an Apple user Unix has always been something weird and strange and generaly bad, the usual "not invented by Apple syndrome". Now the Apple user tells you he has a Unix too and Unix by now is the greatest thing thing sliced bread. A real life story was the Apple user who told me "All modern science is based on Unix", that tells you how much the typical Mac user knows what is under the hood of their computer. They tell you Apple is the largest supplier of Unix world wide. Of course OS X doesn't even remotely classifies as Unix and recent test has shown it is at least 10 times slower then Solaris on simple database serving. This of course gives Unix a bad reputation so you can imagine Open Group being more than upset (they have of course sued Apple over infringement). Real Unixes also has 8-

It doesn't matter that they change the socket. by Ihlosi · 2005-07-21 20:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

Really, it doesn't. Since the memory controller is integrated in the CPU, there is no way to make one of these things run in todays DDR1 mainboards, regardless of the pin count. And since DDR2 has a different pin count than DDR1, of course the pin count of the memory contoller has to change, hence the pin count of the CPU changes.

Anyone complaining about "yet another socket" apparently hasn't understood this.

Re:Socket 1207 by Petersson · 2005-07-21 21:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

Will pincounts be the new megahurtz?

My wallet hurtz... But I've discovered I don't need it, since after almost twenty years of gaming I've quitted and I use my Athlon XP system mostly as DVB PVR, video player, some video editing and dvd burning. What I ask for is better OS, not hardware.

BTW since all most of the controllers are on CPU, I expect motherboard prices will decrease since there is not much to remain on them. In extreme, why spend money on the processor pins and the socket itself? Why not solder the CPU to motherboard, like in the old times of some 386 boards? With adequate hole in mobo, we can cool the CPU from both sides.

--
I'm not insane. My mother had me tested.

Re:Is DDR2 worth waiting for? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-21 23:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you want to use your AGP-card then 939 is the way to go since there will be almost 100% PCI-express graphics on the new sockets, and since you can reuse your ram with good performance (DDR2 in itself won't give you much extra) go for broke right now

what a troll by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-22 01:19 · Score: 1, Insightful

It doesn't take paragraphs to dispel these myths.

* You're comparing the Newton to "today's standards" when it is no longer made, rarely used, and is 12 years old.

* Cooperative multitasking was was all the mac had at the time, so marketing had to come up with something. Of course it was crap.

* Apple didn't have a choice but to fast track OS X. See above problem. Who cares?

* G4 Cube was a canceled project and therefore an admitted failure.

* The Mini serves one purpose, and that is to allow people to try out the Mac computing experience for only $500. It is not a "serious" computer for anything.

* Linux is not UNIX either. Nobody seems to care.

* It's not Apple's fault that Motorola and IBM allowed PPC to fall by the wayside.

* You opinion is that professional is another term for "ugly." This isn't really a point. Windows and GNOME have the same clutter problem.

* Is it flip-flopping or staying as competitive as possible by choosing the best available technology? I see you're already biased.

You must not experience too many honest mac users that will tell you things like:
* Safari is a leaky-ass web browser
* Dashboard is just some fancyness to push a very advanced set of programmer APIs to the masses.
* The Opteron kicks the shit out of the G5
* Apple should have gone with the Opteron (but we'll consider forgiving them if they add the chips to the lineup when the supply issues are abated)
* The iPod Shuffle is for cheapskates who want iTunes and the Music Store and it needs a display in the next revision. Nobody really cares about FM, otherwise they wouldn't tote their own music around.

Sorry you've had the zealots lie to you. Most of us believe that Apple offers the best tradeoffs, despite any flaws, real or "perceived." You should try hanging out with less asinine Apple users.

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