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Impact of Daylight Savings Time Changes?

jason718 writes "With the pending changes to U.S. Daylight Savings Time, what impact will those changes have to existing systems and their applications? Are some operating systems more open than others with regard to the configuration of Daylight Savings Time start and end dates, or will we need yet another update or patch to modify the internal calendar?"

26 of 572 comments (clear)

  1. Who cares? by mnemonic_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are some operating systems more open than others with regard to the configuration of Daylight Savings Time start and end dates, or will we need yet another update or patch to modify the internal calendar?

    Wouldn't a patch for this sort of thing require all of 10 seconds to make?

    1. Re:Who cares? by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Wouldn't a patch for this sort of thing require all of 10 seconds to make?

      And about 10 years to get fully deployed. There are machines still running unpatched copies of Windows 98 and IE 5.0 out there.

      I hope they give us several years' notice, so that we can all go out and buy New-DST-compliant VCRs along with our HDTV-compliant TVs.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    2. Re:Who cares? by standards · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have about 54 Unix servers to care and feed.

      I estimate that we will perform zero patches to handle these specific rule changes.

      The switch already happens - it'll just happen on different days. And if you recall, these changes have happened before - so it isn't really unexpected for those who have been in the business a while.

      The Y2K contracting folks will have you jumping off your seats, but for everyone who runs these systems: no big deal.

      I'm sure some home users will be caught off guard, but then again most desktop users have their clock set to the wrong timezone.

    3. Re:Who cares? by huckleup · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I believe time servers report some sort of untranslated time, like Universal or Greenwich Mean. Your local machine then adjusts the displayed time locally, so I think it will still be an issue for you.

    4. Re:Who cares? by SeventyBang · · Score: 3, Insightful



      Look! Down the hall! It's Pedantic Man!


      He knows it's Daylight Saving Time

      (not Daylight SavingS Time)

      I have yet to figure out why anyone outside of the states of Indiana, Arizona, and Hawaii actually give a rat's posterior about DST (because it's a part of life and takes place seemingly without effort). Those are the only three states which do not observe DST. Indiana has several clusters of counties near Chicago, Cincinnati, Louisville which do so on their own. Indiana's legislature also enacted a law to observe it, but now it requires Federal action to finish it, including which time zone(s) are observed. So there's a "fact finding" tour underway where people can sound off regarding which time zone they want to "belong to".

      One state legislator voted against it because it would mess up his constituents' schedules when they had to take their kids over the state line (to Illinois) and the time difference would force them to restructure their days. No one took the time to point out to this moron that part of Indiana was on "New York time" (an hour ahead of that area of Illinois) six months a year and on "Chicago time" (the same time as that area) six months a year. So being at the same time or a difference of one hour constantly is less confusing than switching every six months?

      That's no worse than years ago when those in the rural areas I grew up in complained it would mess up the cows' milking schedules. No one pointed out to them cows' don't look at the clocks. What they meant to say is it would mess up their schedules but using the cows as an excuse seemed to make it sound like it was somehow more critical? You wouldn't have believed it this year. Parents whined it would screw up kids going to bed: "How can you tell kids it's time to go to bed at 8:30pm when it's still light out?" Drive-In theatre owners whined it would cause shows to start later (although the number of drive-ins around the country, including Indiana, is a pittance of what it used to be), restaurants bellyached it would screw up supper hours because people would go out to eat based upon how light it was, not the time on the clock. You'd think no one else in the world had ever dealt with DST before.

      I think the only people who would have whined more are those who would have had a million dollars bestowed upon them - but in pennies and they'd have to count and lug them to the bank.

      (To be honest, it was always good sport to watch the political turmoil. I find it no different than the current Supreme Court nomination. In spite of the long-term importance, and regardless of one's personal political perspective, I find watching political friction to be one of America's great indoor sports. The higher the level, the more interesting it becomes. All of the others (sports) have been ruined by tweaking the rules.

      On a more humorous note, I actually had something cooked up to take advantage of the annual turmoil in Indiana's legislature. I planned to circulate a story to the effect:

      Microsoft was behind the lobbying effort to stop the observance of DST because of all of the Windows machines which list Indiana as its own timezone. Microsoft was afraid they would find themselves responsible for creating and supporting patches for all of those PCs, even for OSes which are no longer under active support.

      My intent had been to start on March 29-30 so there would be a couple of days to circulate and work toward passing it along to a couple of friends in the local media - hopefully, using some forged email as additional proof. I thought of it as an interesting birthday experiment (my birthday is April Fool's Day). Alas, the missus never permitted it. She was afraid there would be some legal repercussions, despite the opportunity for humor.

      oh well.


    5. Re:Who cares? by adrianmonk · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I have about 54 Unix servers to care and feed. I estimate that we will perform zero patches to handle these specific rule changes.

      I know, you only have to change the file that defines the timezone, and there is no need to change executable code or anything. So, it seemingly isn't that big a deal.

      But, let me ask you a question: although you plan to patch zero machines, how many machines will you reboot?

      The problem, for me, is this: I have been using Unix for over 15 years now, and for about 5 years I was a Unix administrator. I consider myself pretty knowledge about Unix. However, I have NO IDEA whether the important commands (cron and so on) re-read the timezone description periodically or whether a reboot is required. I've simply never run into that issue. So, I don't know whether a reboot is required, so if I ran 54 Unix servers, I suppose I would have to reboot them all just to be on the safe side.

      Now, it's not a HUGE productivity loss to have to reboot a bunch of servers, but it is a definite waste of time. All in all, this modified daylight saving time idea just seems really dumb to me.

  2. More trouble by mfloy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This seems like it is going to be a great deal of trouble. Although most software will be fairly easily patched, it still seems like a hastle. People will inevitably forget to patch, and different will be handling time differently.

    1. Re:More trouble by The_Wilschon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The people who don't get it right will simply change their clocks, and then however long later when their clocks change automatically, they'll scratch their heads, and change them again. Just like people handled daylight savings time before computers, only with more changes, and some of them more puzzling.

      Of course, that only accounts for systems that have people sitting at them and who happen to glance at the clock. I predict that there will be some servers that are off by an hour for a while, but that it will not cause many problems. Except possibly with authentication that depends on time synchronization, like kerberos.

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
  3. international flights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    from the article:

    "and airline officials said it would have complicated scheduling of international flights."

    But the US and Europe already change to daylight savings at different times and some countries don't implement it at all. So how does it really make any difference?

  4. Re:Didn't we just argue over this? by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They'll just think it's the wrong time. Makes no difference to DVD players. Important for clocks, but these can be set manually twice a year.

    Few devices adjust for DST. To my knowledge, only computers do this. And that can be turned off and done manually if need be.

  5. Nothing* by dago · · Score: 2, Insightful

    * May vary dependig on your location, only applies outside of the USA.

    --
    #include "coucou.h"
  6. Re:Who elects these guys? by taniwha · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This guy is a plain bozo ... or has never had little kids ... the best part of trick-or-treating is the magic of wandering the neighborhood looking at all the jack-o-lanterns and other decorations - what's the point of doing it in the daylight?

    We travelled the world with my (now older) kids last year .... halloween found us in India ... pumpkins were in short supply ... in the end we carved watermelons, they work great if you leave a little red flesh

  7. Re:Daylight Saving = Duping 11pm by ZephyrXero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Are some operating systems more open than others with regard to the configuration of Daylight Savings Time start and end dates, or will we need yet another update or patch to modify the internal calendar?"

    I'm pretty sure all operating systems will need to be updated to work with this new system...lol. BIOSes too.

    --
    "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
  8. Who is fooling who? by CrazyTalk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This whole thing is riduculous - pretty soon we will have daylight savings time year round, which will of course then be just "time". Might as well just stay on the same time, all the time. People work flextime now anyway - and most are not farmers that need to follow the schedule of the sun. If they do, just change what time they start work each day - not change the actual clock. If they are worried about commerce, people being in synch, etc. everyone across the globe should just agree on GMT (or whatever) as the standard time and go from there.

    The absurdity of fooling yourself by changing the clocks (not really unlike those that set their alarm clock fast so they are never late) reminds me of a former coworker, who came in later to work every day. One day he came in as we were leaving for lunch. Soon he came in on a Friday as we were all leaving for happy hour. Eventually he "lapped" himself and started coming in so late it was early the next morning, and eventually he came in at a normal start time of 8:00 or so. Of course, the trend continued and he just started coming in later again.

  9. Re:No daylight savings time here by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Arizona's position on Daylight Saving Time is enlightened, and we should all follow their shining example.

    If you want to go to work an hour earlier, just go to work an hour earlier. All this goddamn "pretend it's an hour later than it really is" bullshit is completely whacked. People who think DST is a good idea are like people who think setting their alarm clocks ten minutes later will improve the likelihood that they will get to work on time.

    Noon should always be when the sun is directly over my time-zone. If you want to adjust the business day according to available sunlight, it makes more sense to: 1. Change the start time instead of the clocks. 2. Do it gradually, the way available light changes gradually. That way you don't fuck up people's sleep cycles either.

    I wonder if the health problems (and sick days off work) due to disrupted sleep patterns has actually cost our society more than the energy saved by the whole DST concept. Seems like something which should have been studied by now...

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  10. Re:Didn't we just argue over this? by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My TV does. So does my VCR

    Don't these use the time code encoded in the VBI in TV broadcasts?

  11. DLS != Apocalypse by australopith · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Oh, for heaven sake grow up folks. Living in a country (New Zealand) that has had day light savings for as long as I can remember, I can tell you that the worst that has happened is that I've forget to reset my alarm and slept in.

    It is a little hard getting up an hour early in summer but you can sleep in an hour come winter. I do have to change my watch, clocks, VCR etc. We Kiwis use this change-over to also change our smoke-alarm batteries.

    Both my Mac and Windows machines set themselves.

    Yes, it is harder on farmers (we are a rural nation), but the livestock survives the change just fine - no cows explode from not being milked for an hour.

    The extra hour of daylight in is much appreciated in summer - more time for sports and other outdoors activities (oh sorry I forgot where I was posting ;-)

    --
    Just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe, aye.
  12. Re:US is getting desperate by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sheesh.

    Ok, let's take as a given that Peak Oil has already passed, just for the sake of argument.

    All that this means is that crude oil pumped from the ground will continue to become more expensive. Not in great leaps and bounds, but at a relatively steady pace.

    As crude oil becomes more expensive, alternate fuels become relatively less expensive. Sooner rather than later we'll see both synthetic crude (from farm waste, of all things) and expanded hydrogen trade.

    In a hundred years, we won't be back to hand-working on farms. We'll have a bunch of telecommuters working the same networked jobs they all want to work now, and the same green revolution farms, only the tractors will use more electric motors and less internal combustion.

    Is Peak Oil going to give us change? Yes. It is going to cause a capitalist apocolypse? No, not really. We did rather well before gasoline, and we'll do farily well long after it's gone.

  13. Re:No daylight savings time here by pthisis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you want to go to work an hour earlier, just go to work an hour earlier.

    That would be nice if the other government rules and laws didn't mention time at all. But they do. In DC, they constrain when I can buy beer, play my radio audibly, ride the subway, etc. Changing DST has a real effect on those things.

    --
    rage, rage against the dying of the light
  14. Affords me better fitness by Fastball · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since I can have an extra hour of light at the end of the work day. That means I can get out on my bike and get some miles in before dark. And before you fuckers suggest that I go in to work an hour earlier, I must tell you that I cannot. I work in television, and programming doesn't shift with DST. If something airs at 3pm, it airs at 3pm.

    1. Re:Affords me better fitness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ride in the morning, dolt.

    2. Re:Affords me better fitness by HisMother · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If something airs at 3pm, then it most certainly [i]does[/i] shift with DST. If it didn't, then during DST, it'd air at 2pm.

      --
      Cantankerous old coot since 1957.
  15. Re:No daylight savings time here by Spock+the+Baptist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Geothermal Heat Pumps! Now we're talkin'!

    My Dad, about 17 years ago got holt of several hundred feet of stainless steel tubing. Nice fairly thick walls. We borrowed a drilling rig and bored seven shafts in the backyard. Each about 85 feet deep. Insert the tubing which Dad had wielded into long shinny 'wickets' about 78 feet long. Wield the 'wickets' together in series, and viola closed cooling loop. Add a heat exchanger in the form of a 130 gallon stainless steel canister. Add one reversible compressor and we had a geothermal heat pump.

    When the Heat Wave of 00 hit we had the electric company making inquires about how little electricity we were using in August and September of that year. --Much malevolent laughter on my and my Dad's part--

    I don't expect that the stainless steel tubing to give me problems over the next 30 years. A garbage can rack that my Dad made out of lower quality stainless in 1952 is still soldiering on with but the most minor degradation. Water line that Dad make from the same lot of tubing as the garbage can rack was used by several relatives as water pipes from their rural water wells. They have never clogged since they were installed in the late 40s. They have be reliable for nearly 60 years. I figure that my cooling loop should out last me.

    Since the cooling loop in the major difference between a standard heat pump and a geothermal heat pump I should not have any greater maintenance problems than one would have with a standard heat pump.

    With a house of just less than 1500 square feet I always get an electric bill of that is less than $100.00. Dad also had the house insulated out the wazoo, so that is also a help.

    I use mostly fluorescent lighting, and am considering running 12 V wiring to power LED lighting. LED lighting used in conjunction with a bank of deep cycle battering being charged by photovoltaic panels would likely cut my electric bill by about $5.00- $15.00/month. Depending on the hours of daylight of that month. Mainly though I want lighting that will work if the power gets cut off due to bad weather etc..

    I'm also strongly considering a solar assessed hot water system. He, he; the only natural gas that I'd use then would be for the cook stove.

    Yo! Utility companies, Kiss my grits...

    --
    "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
  16. Re:USA think they're the rulers of the world and T by cnettel · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Now, just take it easy. There is no international standard on DST, so there is nothing to break. The US + Canada hasn't been synchronous with (most of) Europe before, and they won't be now. Not to mention the countries with half hour zones and whatever.

    There may be quite valid reasons to dislike U.S. (foreign) policy, but this is really an internal issue. If the majority of the U.S. population suddenly decided to scrap any celebration of Christmas or any other somewhat coinciding or similar holiday, that would sure as hell affect export industries with some U.S. interest more. Just like Firefox gaining marketshare among U.S. users affect everyone, no matter where you're situated, who has been an "IE only" dumbass. You're not forced into anything. Not this time, at least.

  17. Re:No daylight savings time here by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Same thing with noise pollution and disturbing the peace, only more so. This doesn't need to be based on the time of the day in the first place.

    So running a weedeater or lawnmower is the same at 2AM as it is at 2PM?

  18. Re:This ougta mod well. by dhasenan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The complete corpus of Josephus regarding Jesus: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." -- Antiquities, ch. 18 Another version reads as follows: "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders." This version was preserved in Arabic--much like most Greek philosophy currently known to us. To be more relevant to the grandparent, you can't call a method on an object before defining the method. And in this case, you can't call the method before the object is defined.