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Illinois Passes Explicit Game Law
The law that the Illinois system of government has been tossing around for a while explicitly banning the sale of Mature games to minors has been passed into law. Gamasutra reports: "Like the similar bill proposed by California Senator Leland Yee, the Safe Games Illinois Act would require retailers to use warning labels in addition to the existing ESRB labels, as well as post signs within stores explaining the ESRB rating system. Sale of offending games to minors will earn stores a $1,000 fine on a petty offense, while failure to post explanatory signage will draw a $500 fine for the first three violations and $1,000 for each subsequent count."
Government will use this as an excuse to squash P2P. After all, it's putting dangerous software and movies in the hands of fragile and impressionable youth.
Trolling is a art,
but wasn't one of these kinds of things thrown out in some big court case five years ago?
*checks*
Interactive Digital Software Association v. St. Louis County, Missouri.
I've upped my standards, so up yours.
This is another example of the legislature do a parents job for them. This is just stupid. If you don't want your kid to play these games, don't let them! Instead of simply talking with their kids about stuff like this, parents spend 10x the effort lobbying lawmakers to enact legislation that achieves the same end!
This kind of legislation works extremely well. Remember the Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics notices on CDs? Since those have been implemented, not a single child has heard a swear word. Rap sales plummetted, and good old fashioned folk music is number one on the charts. One can only be hopefully that this kind of legislation can be enacted on a national level so that we may all go back to playing Centipede and Space Invaders again.
Although many will be up in arms about this, it's no different than having a rated R movie that kids cannot see without a parent or guardian around.
Calm down, it'll be another decade or two before they stop the production of such games and ban free speech.
Look, if it just took the ESRB ratings and used them as the basis for this law, then I'd love it, because it'd put a bit more authority and force behind the Mature and AO ratings.
These games shouldn't be sold to kids in the first place. Putting a fine in there can only help, but the ambiguity makes things too tricky.
Beyond the Polygons : Because 50,000 polygo
Is this more or less strict than how comparably rated movies are sold? I can remember being carded to purchase R-rated movies as a kid, but I'm not sure if that was store policy (Wal*Mart) or law.
e2 | LJ
I never actually bought any games when I was a minor. I had mom rent them and had a list that she'd buy 2-3 off of during a birthday or Christmas.
I don't think that would be that big off a deal for minors just to ask adults to buy the games for them.
Heck, minors will really be playing these games when they illegalize it like cigs and alochol for minors to use.
Obviously this has absolutely nothing to do with Hot Coffee!
But that's my $.02...
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2001-05- 16&res=l/
This law means nothing when junior can get away with this kind of crap. And he does. He does every day.
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
Fines for (retaliers) selling to underage people in Illinois:
S afetyNetwork-PromotingAlcoholResponsibilityThrough CommunityPartnerships.php
Tobacco: $50 http://www.ilcat.org/lawsumm.htm#stma
Alcohol: $500 http://www.alcoholsafetynetwork.org/state/Alcohol
Video Games: $1000
Yup, that's reasonable.
Trix are for kids.
If it weren't for that loophole, I wouldn't have been able to play games like Resident Evil when it came out back in '96 (I was 16 at the time). My dad bought it for me, but he knew that if I knew how to properly handle a firearm that this was nothing.
I was able to play games like Wolf3D, DOOM, Quake, and Mortal Kombat all before I was allowed to vote. I didn't turn into some psycho killer because of the games, and the whole "games are more realistic now" thing doesn't fly, either. People were raising just as big a stink about Mortal Kombat and Scorpion's spine-tearing fatality as they are about GTA now. New game, old blame.
I think that if parents WANT to purchase an M-rated game for their children that they should be allowed to. However, if the child isn't ready for it and starts doing stupid stuff like killing their siblings mimicking a move then the parents are held responsible, just like anything else.
This pretty much fixes, oh, I dunno, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
"Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
Those parental advisory stickers were like a "cool" factor whenever I used to purchase CDs as a younger kid. Ice Cube, Ice T, NWA, CMW, yeah I listened to all of that when I was what...grade 7-8?
And now I'm on slashdot. Go figure.
Let's say state X makes a law banning the sale of M rated games to minors. If they don't do anything about AO and stores decide to sell unrated or AO games, a minor could technically purchase an unrated game with 10 times the violence as an M rated game.
Additionally, general ratings like M really don't differentiate games well enough. I could create a game with just enough sexuality in it to get an M rating. It might not have violence or profanity, but could still get an M rating. I could also create a game that simulates a person playing the role of Hitler. I could have lots of blood, gore, profanity, racism, and be full a hatred and still pull an M rating. Guess which I'd rather have kept out of the hand's of children.
However, since it's obvious that there are a lot of parents not doing their jobs (look at the number of young kids who can easily play M rated games) of keeping content that may be harmful to their children (It's not really for me to decide if 10 year old Jonhny should be running over cops in a video game since he's not my kid, but general concensus would probably suggest he shouldn't be doing that in a video game or real life) away from their children, someone probably should.
unless im much mistaken, the Mature rating was for 17+. What is the point of making it 18+, which requires good ol' taxpayer dollars to be spent paying the legislature in session deliberating on it for 4 months, and would cause a mere one-year delay? must we emulate Europe in game ratings as well?
Here's my favorite word for all those wowsers and Grundys out there:
... ... intended for the prevention of conception or the procuring of abortion'. The law enabled him to go to any post office and inspect mail he suspected might be obscene, and in his lifetime he oversaw the destruction of 160 tons of literature he considered immoral.
u rces/new-comstockery-030210.htm
Comstockery noun [U]
excessive censorship of literature and pictures which are considered obscene or immoral
Background
The term Comstockery derives from one Anthony Comstock (1844-1915). In 1873 Comstock became secretary of the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice. In the same year he went to Washington to lobby for stronger laws on obscenity, carrying a huge cloth bag full of publications and information on contraception and abortion. He was subsequently empowered to enforce a new law, the Comstock law, which prohibited publications 'of an indecent character' and the mailing of 'any article
From http://www.macmillandictionary.com/essential/reso
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
I think that was the only reason i listened to Blink 182 as a young-un
I'm working at Kmart this summer for some money to buy a car. I don't normally work at the checkout, but I've been called up there when it gets busy (a rarity, but it happens) and I spent my first week there on checkouts to train in on how to use them. No less than 3 times this summer have I seen a kid come up with some product that requires a birthdate, be told this, and promptly just call over their mom and have the parent just tell me that it's ok. None of them even glanced at what the product was (one was an M-rated game, one was a GNR cd, neither of which really mattered, but one was a Motley Crue DVD that looked rather obscene). This level of parenting isn't going to care if there's a sign posted explaining the ratings-they didnt care before, they won't care now.
The Braying and Neighing of Barnyard Animals Follows.
I believe that this will put more responsibility on parents.
Now hear me out here. I do not belive this law will do much good, as some stores will inevitably ignore the new reguluations, game development companies will still produce violent/sex-filled games and parents will surely buy these games for their kids... nothing will change in that respect.
What will change is the fact that when the next Little Deranged Johnny does go on his shooting spree claiming to have been influenced by videogames, who can overprotective parents, lawmakers and lawyers alike lay the blame on?
- The stores that sell these products are not to blame if they follow the new regulations
- The companies that make these games cannot be blamed, as there is legislation now in place that protects them. How often do gun companies get successfully sued for children accidentally shooting each other? How often do alcohol companies get sued because someone drank their beer and killed someone driving drunk?
- The kids cannot be blamed because by law they are minors and don't know the difference between fantasy and reality (mind you this is from the point of view from the Overprotective Parents Association - OPA - not my personal view)
How did Little Deranged Johnny get his hands on such a twisted, evil, dispicable piece of software? The parents! The only way that he legally got the software would be through his parents who bought it for him or from a friend's parents who allowed him to use it.I fear though that the wrath of the OPA will be turned elsewhere instead of on the parents where it belongs... "How could it be possible that the parents are to blame when he could have just as easily pirated it off of the internet? Regulate the internet now! Crack down harder on piracy!"
This is a good thing because it'll show that parents are buying their kids the inappropriate games. Consider the law a "pilot program" for an equivalent national law. There will be almost no fines - and anyone who's in the media, make sure to spin this as meaning that no kids were buying M games already, because the wacko liberal senators will try to interpret this as meaning that the law is effective.
Most retailers I've seen already block those under 17. This would be a one-year age difference only - and I don't think there are many 17-year-olds without parents or friends who'd be inconvenienced by this.
It was comic books.
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
I have nothing against wanting to restrict mature video games.
What I have an issue with is when state governments want to invent definitions of "Mature" that go outside of the ESRB.
If retailers were "self-policing" like the ESRB ratings were supposed to be for, kids would need to get their parent to buy a mature game anyway. We all know that's a crock, so the system wasn't working.
This is the fault of video game retailers. They did not live up to their end of the agreement to prevent government intervention. Hot Coffee got the legislators riled up, but stores selling mature games to minors has been a problem for a long time.
It's not really a stretch from now. I'm 22 and I got carded for buying GT: San Andreas.
"But oh noes! Teh law is doing the parenting for the parents!"
Well, it's been doing that for years. Take curfews for minors as an example.
This is hardly a freedom issue, as the law does not ban minors from playing the games, just buying them. A parent who feels his/her child is more than responsible will allow them to play. And if they can't play, then, well, they will have to put up with the pain my older sister's friends felt when their moms, who did not like the fact that Ultramagnus said "Dammit," did not take them to see TF:TM in 86.
I know that it may sound harsh to all you kiddies out there, but not being allowed to do/get something is part of growing up. Besides, being underage and still obtaining that mature game/case of beer/porno mag/bag of mushrooms and hiding it from parents/authorities is (was for me, at least) hella fun at that age.
"This is hardly a freedom issue, as the law does not ban minors from playing the games, just buying them."
Seriously, how is this not a freedom issue. Lets say for example that the government banned the sale of alcohol or cigerettes to adults but you could still drink or smoke them if you got ahold of them. Would you consider that not to be a freedom issue to? You should either ban them outright from sale AND use or do neither.
"I know that it may sound harsh to all you kiddies out there, but not being allowed to do/get something is part of growing up. Besides, being underage and still obtaining that mature game/case of beer/porno mag/bag of mushrooms and hiding it from parents/authorities is (was for me, at least) hella fun at that age."
I agree. When i was younger smoking seemed so much better then it does now (i'm 23) since i couldn't legally obtain them back then, same thing with drinking. With that said though the things you mentioned in your post (beer, shrooms, prono mag) are nowhere even near comparable to harmless "Mature" rated video games.
I hope not. I was carded by an over-enthusiatic new cashier at the grocery store today (I'm almost 30, with a 4 inch beard and grey hair). The store manager, whom I knew personally, scolded her, and I got my smokes. But if this is like this in video game stores, what then? What kind of ID is good enough? What about fake ID? They've been trying to stop kids from buying smokes for years, and they still can if they try hard enough. And those of us who ARE old enough sometimes can't.
Won't work.
Stasis is death. Embrace change.
So does anyone have a list of states to pass anti-m rated games legislation?
Good karma sticks to me like velcro on a piece of plexiglass.
Move along, citizen.
It doesn't. It's just another "my rights" mouth-off, FUD slashdot style. The only people impacted are those who fall under the ratings.*
*guess the posters age.
----
[a slashdot alternative writen in CL]
http://reddit.com./
I don't know about you, but I don't see too many 13 year olds who are walking into a store with $49.99 in their pockets...but what do I know.
A lot of you are saying a kid who can't buy an M rated game he wants will end up pirating it anyways. I don't think piracy is a big deal in this case.
Think about what is needed to pirate a game for consoles nowadays. PC is one thing, but if your kids already have or know how to mod say, a ps2 or xbox for instance, to play pirated games, i think they can handle M rated games...
Okay, from what I've been reading here, NOBODY has clicked the link to read the FULL article! If they did, then they would know that the Entertainment Software Association, the ESA, has already filed suit AGAINST this law in conjunction with the Video Software Dealers Association and the Illinois Retail Merchants Association! AND the law is not slated to go into effect until January 1st, 2006! That's practically SIX MONTHES to overturn the law and label it as unconstitutional. Similar attempts like this have failed in Indiana, Washington state, and Missouri! It's always been attempts made on the state level, and never on the national level! The national level is quite happy with the ESRB, and the recent announcement of the FTC investigating whether or not Rockstar INTENTIONALLY deceived the ESRB is a BIG PLUS for the ESRB in terms of governmental RESPECT! And for those nay-sayers that think a law like this ISN'T harmful, let's put a few things in perspective: 1) A law the imposes state regulated stickers and labels on games SERIOUSLY undermines the authority of the ESRB! Plus, there is no guarantee that whoever is in charge of state regulation will act the same way the ESRB does! We may see FOOTBALL games marked as 18+ because of the "Violent" content! Next thing you know, Barbie Horse Adventures may be rated T for Teen! This isn't actually a stretch here! Anyone remember the early days of anime when they had no ratings? They all had those 18+ stickers, even the harmless ones like Nadia: Secret of Blue Water! 2) Fining retailers and so on is one thing, but that does NOT make for good parenting! It is the parent's responsibility to monitor what their child is playing or watching AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE! The parents are in control of whether their kids have money to buy the games, THEY are also the ones who usually go out and buy them, and if they are DUMB enough to let their kids play GTA:SA KNOWING the GTA history that they've made for themselves AND LATER going on a witch-hunt after the ESRB, ESA, and other FUNCTIONING BODIES of video game ratings and policy making! That's just STUPID! Banning something will NOT make it go away. Prohibition did NOT stop people from drinking, and banning games is the same thing. People will STILL find ways to play, and it will become an underground operation just like it is in Malaysia or something. 3) Many of you are not game developers! I am currently a student who is taking an IT major with a concentration on game development. One of the things I WANT to do is express my ideas, stories, and creativity in a video game, which has been my dream since 2nd grade! If new laws regulating what CAN or CAN'T be in a game are passed, then that SEVERELY restricts the developers' ability to create good game content and also tell a good story. The game God of War, for example, is credited as being the idea of one Dave Jaffe, who is considered the "Brains" of the game. It's his baby, more or less, because he is the CREATIVE DIRECTOR, the highly coveted position in the game industry where you have the final say on what does or what doesn't go into a game (with a vote by all the other developers as well. Can't be a tyrant here folks!) God of War is brutal with medusa decapitations, Cyclops eye gouging, harpy wing tearing, and plenty of blood and guts! Not to mention the two VERY topless ladies at the end of the Hydra section of the game. But, with the way it is told and the story that wraps around it, you can see why the brutality FITS Kratos' character, and how even the topless women fit in with an ancient Greek setting! With higher restrictions on content, then the developers have to censor themselves to get their games out to the people! THIS is where the free speech card is played, because games are not just games! They are no longer the "shoot Alien A, get 100 points" kind of games from the early days! These are now games that can tell a unique and compelling story, and limiting what can or can't go into a game by government legislation will hamper the market and
Okay, THAT did not turn out as well as I had hoped for. Apparently, HTML and Plain Old Text is something I NEED to pay more attention to! Let's try that again:
Okay, from what I've been reading here, NOBODY has clicked the link to read the FULL article!
If they did, then they would know that the Entertainment Software Association, the ESA, has already filed suit AGAINST this law in conjunction with the Video Software Dealers Association and the Illinois Retail Merchants Association! AND the law is not slated to go into effect until January 1st, 2006! That's practically SIX MONTHES to overturn the law and label it as unconstitutional.
Similar attempts like this have failed in Indiana, Washington state, and Missouri! It's always been attempts made on the state level, and never on the national level! The national level is quite happy with the ESRB, and the recent announcement of the FTC investigating whether or not Rockstar INTENTIONALLY deceived the ESRB is a BIG PLUS for the ESRB in terms of governmental RESPECT!
And for those nay-sayers that think a law like this ISN'T harmful, let's put a few things in perspective:
1) A law the imposes state regulated stickers and labels on games SERIOUSLY undermines the authority of the ESRB! Plus, there is no guarantee that whoever is in charge of state regulation will act the same way the ESRB does! We may see FOOTBALL games marked as 18+ because of the "Violent" content! Next thing you know, Barbie Horse Adventures may be rated T for Teen! This isn't actually a stretch here! Anyone remember the early days of anime when they had no ratings? They all had those 18+ stickers, even the harmless ones like Nadia: Secret of Blue Water!
2) Fining retailers and so on is one thing, but that does NOT make for good parenting! It is the parent's responsibility to monitor what their child is playing or watching AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE! The parents are in control of whether their kids have money to buy the games, THEY are also the ones who usually go out and buy them, and if they are DUMB enough to let their kids play GTA:SA KNOWING the GTA history that they've made for themselves AND LATER going on a witch-hunt after the ESRB, ESA, and other FUNCTIONING BODIES of video game ratings and policy making!
That's just STUPID!
Banning something will NOT make it go away. Prohibition did NOT stop people from drinking, and banning games is the same thing. People will STILL find ways to play, and it will become an underground operation just like it is in Malaysia or something.
3) Many of you are not game developers! I am currently a student who is taking an IT major with a concentration on game development. One of the things I WANT to do is express my ideas, stories, and creativity in a video game, which has been my dream since 2nd grade!
If new laws regulating what CAN or CAN'T be in a game are passed, then that SEVERELY restricts the developers' ability to create good game content and also tell a good story. The game God of War, for example, is credited as being the idea of one Dave Jaffe, who is considered the "Brains" of the game. It's his baby, more or less, because he is the CREATIVE DIRECTOR, the highly coveted position in the game industry where you have the final say on what does or what doesn't go into a game (with a vote by all the other developers as well. Can't be a tyrant here folks!)
God of War is brutal with medusa decapitations, Cyclops eye gouging, harpy wing tearing, and plenty of blood and guts! Not to mention the two VERY topless ladies at the end of the Hydra section of the game. But, with the way it is told and the story that wraps around it, you can see why the brutality FITS Kratos' character, and how even the topless women fit in with an ancient Greek setting!
With higher restrictions on content, then the developers have to censor themselves to get their games out to the people!
THIS is where the free speech card is played, because games are not just games! They are no l
google for: "oil" + "all-girl"
First Result: FAQ: Girl Scout Cookies
Real risque there...
Isn't ESRB rating optional anyway much like the mpaa rating is optional?
Will stores no longer be able to carry games that aren't ESRB rated? It would seem that publishers could just choose not to have certain games rated.. I doubt Gamestop really cares if GTA is rated or not.
Have you guys heard of the BBFC? In the Uk they had ratings on games and films for ages. I think its a good idea seeing as it prevents the kids from blaming their behavior on the game, when they shouldn't have it in the first place. What worries me is when things start to get banned, like in the UK the bbfc can ban films and cut them to shreds, and most people don't even know what there missing!