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What Every Dev Needs To Know About Story

Gamasutra has a feature up discussing important lessons that game developers should know about storytelling. From the article: "The first attempts to make movies into real stories failed. They failed because they were conceived as filmed plays. A camera would be set up about where an audience member would sit in the middle of a theater, and the play would ensue. It didn't work. Early film makers didn't take into account that the human eye wanders all over the fixed box of the stage during a play, and a camera that does any less will bore the film audience to tears. They also hand discovered the rich tool set of camera angles, close-ups, far shots, and all the language of film we now take for granted. Generally speaking, they hadn't discovered what this particular story form was good at. And frankly, neither have we in games. "

75 comments

  1. Just hire a fucking author by bornyesterday · · Score: 0, Troll
    Or a middle schooler.

    Either one would have everything you need to tell a good basic story.

    1. Re:Just hire a fucking author by James_Aguilar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most big budget games have writers, and most of them still have crap storytelling/writing/voiceacting. Just as author's are rarely good for screenplays and screenwriters rarely are able to write books, neither will be able, in general, to fully leverage the pen of the video game. We need a new genre of writer to write for the new medium we have created.

    2. Re:Just hire a fucking author by Pxtl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Amen. I've seen what happens when you have well-written games - you get FF8. The game had perfectly decent dialogue and a compelling story that was incredibly annoying and slow to crawl through. The game tried to tell a nice story, and in the end it felt like you were just clicking through a nice story, instead of playing.

    3. Re:Just hire a fucking author by Yocto+Yotta · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Or, just read the fucking article. The author's point goes far beyond taking some idea for a game and hiring someone to put words in the characters mouth. Of course, if you can't bother to read, no one should expect you to know anything about writing.

      Mod me +1 Flamebait please. Oh, yeah, flamebait is a negative thing . . .

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    4. Re:Just hire a fucking author by bornyesterday · · Score: 1

      That's why I said Or a middle-schooler

    5. Re:Just hire a fucking author by bornyesterday · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I read the article.

      You sir, are the one putting words in MY mouth. I never said that they need someone to put words in the characters mouth. In fact, I didn't say much at all.

      What I was saying, AAA (as an author), is that drafting out a decent storyline isn't really that hard to do if you put some effort into it (i.e. have ever read a good novel). What was covered in the article is nothing beyond what is covered in an intro-level fiction writing class in a university. You don't need to have a 300 page book written for the game, you need a flow chart of basic events. But like the other respondants said, it needs to flow, not get caught up in the story like FF8.

      PS. you don't rate flamebait, you don't know enough about what you're talking about to be able to actually flame. Though you did a great job of totally making misplaced assumptions. Have a cookie.

    6. Re:Just hire a fucking author by LocoMan · · Score: 1

      How I wish more people understood that. I work with video editing, and most of the videos we end up doing have scripts that are written by press reporters with little or no video experience... and they're just too different medias (in written press you have to say everything, in video you have to say the bare minimun and let the images say the rest), so we end up either rewritting the scripts or the video ends up being too long and repetitive.

      Same thing happens with video / movies / games / books / theater, which is why screenwriters instead of authors are hired to adapt books to movies. I guess the game genre is too young for having a specific role for that yet.

    7. Re:Just hire a fucking author by nc_yori · · Score: 1

      If you are actually an author then you should be keenly aware of just how hard it is for most people to grasp the subtleties behind effective storytelling. You should also know that "a flow chart of basic events" is all well and good for consistency but isn't worthwhile for character development, which (at least IMHO) is where most video games fall short. Have pity for the people who don't have the grasp that you do on storytelling but remember that videogame writing is a world apart from screenwriting or novels.

    8. Re:Just hire a fucking author by asretfroodle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I remember enjoying the Betrayal at Krondor game a few years ago, I think Raymond Feist wrote the script for that.

      Perhaps he just had a better understanding of the medium he was using.

    9. Re:Just hire a fucking author by almosthere · · Score: 1

      I think the author got one thing right, "games are not movies", but he just continues with this story thing.
      Hey, how about you leave the story part to me, and just deliver a rich world/setting.
      Isn't that what games are all about? Exploring alternatives, and not "do it my way, or do it your way, fail, restart level and do it my way".
      Enough with linearity in games, build a world and let players decide on outcome, or how the story develops.
      That I think is the strength of this medium.

    10. Re:Just hire a fucking author by James_Aguilar · · Score: 1

      Query: perhaps the name for the type of writer in our new medium of gaming should be "Game Designer?" We have seen tis work with some companies (take Valve for instance).

    11. Re:Just hire a fucking author by Metasquares · · Score: 1

      The two aren't mutually exclusive, though. Take FFT (the original Tactics, not Tactics Advance) and Xenogears, both of which had very good stories, IMO. Neither of those games felt like clicking through a nice story; playing them felt like playing through a nice story.

    12. Re:Just hire a fucking author by bornyesterday · · Score: 1
      Just FYI, character traits can easily be drawn out in a separate flowchart.

      And I agree with you that a lot of character development in games is extremely weak. But then in a world devoted to Harry Potter, who's characters are about as developed as a new roll of film, what can you expect.

      There are lots of ways to characterize. The easiest is by showing how the character reacts to certain events. Working with a flowchart of events it is pretty easy to tell how a well-defined character will react.

      All story-telling is essentially the same. That was the point I was trying to make earlier. All stories have the same basic pattern, the way they are told is irrelevant to that. If you develop that basic pattern first, then you can adapt it to any format you want. One exercise I've done in classes for learning the different forms of fiction (i.e. novels, plays, screenwriting) is to do exactly that.

      There is no reason to pity the people who don't understand storytelling, I sure as hell can't design the graphics for videogames or code them. But then you don't hire an author to do that. So you shouldn't hire a programmer to write storylines unless he's trained in that as well.

    13. Re:Just hire a fucking author by Yocto+Yotta · · Score: 1

      Touché, my friend. You indeed didn't say much at all. I guess your comment regarding hiring a middle-schooler to write professional scripts/stories was misinterpreted by me as stupid, when I clearly should have known that it was an educated opinion of a person who thinks of themselves "AAA." I'm KOSBNR (kind of sorry but not really). Enjoy your weekend!

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    14. Re:Just hire a fucking author by bornyesterday · · Score: 1

      Your sarcasm is much appreciated (seriously...it's a really sloooooow day at work). Have a good weekend yourself!

    15. Re:Just hire a fucking author by brkello · · Score: 1

      FF8 is my favorite of the series. It's so amusing, either people love it or hate it. I enjoyed it because of the main character. He was a self-reliant badass who coudln't understand why everyone around him were so incompetant. I liked that so much more than the perky team players that were the other main characters. Ah well, to each their own :)

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    16. Re:Just hire a fucking author by Yocto+Yotta · · Score: 1

      Thank you. I feel sarcasm is THE elixir for the soul. And b33r.

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    17. Re:Just hire a fucking author by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      Take FFT (the original Tactics, not Tactics Advance) and Xenogears, both of which had very good stories, IMO. Neither of those games felt like clicking through a nice story; playing them felt like playing through a nice story.

      I'm guessing you never made it onto the second disc of Xenogears, then?

    18. Re:Just hire a fucking author by Yocto+Yotta · · Score: 1

      PS. Starting Score: 1 point Moderation -1 100% Flamebait Extra 'Flamebait' Modifier 0 (Edit) Total Score: 0

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    19. Re:Just hire a fucking author by StupidKatz · · Score: 1

      FF8 was my least favorite of the series.

      I'll admit the story was very entertaining, but the gameplay blew chunks. Ahh, nothing like spending 40 minutes trying to suck enough majick out of a low-level monster to actually have a shot at beating some of the bosses... for one type of majick out of hundreds!

      Good stories and good gameplay are rare things. Finding them both in the same game is a stastisical miracle.

  2. I give you 30 years. by jolande · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I give you 30 years. 30 years from now people will consider video games (at least some of them) fine artwork. It took a long time for people to accept movies as legitimate. Same with television, photography, etc. The same thing happens with every new medium. Eventually videogames will be adopted by the art world as a legitimate medium. It is really just a matter of time.

    1. Re:I give you 30 years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think most people still don't consider the great film achievements the same thing as a Leonardo or a Michaelangelo. Film has a lot more legitimacy than it did but the inherently commercial nature of it could prevent it from ever being accepted the way the Classic Masters are.

      Video games right now seem to be begging for the kind of legitimacy film has, but I think they should be aiming higher. A wise man once advised me that I would do much better to copy the same things my idols copied, rather than to just copy my idols!

    2. Re:I give you 30 years. by kyle_b_gorman · · Score: 1

      Television has existed for 70 years or whatever, and I still don't think it's art. Television has never asked for acceptance as art, nor has it ever given us any reason to view it as such.

      I expect something more like genres of music for which the "pinnacle" of the genre will be considered to be pretty early-on (I'm thinking 1986-1994 or so for video games, but that may be colored by my age). Video games will become art at some interval after which video game creators view themselves as artists and respected artists from other genres enter the video game industry.

    3. Re:I give you 30 years. by sgant · · Score: 1

      it kind of is like that now. I mean, my wife and I started playing Warcraft 3...and got so caught up in the story we just used the cheat codes to hurry through the levels to continue on with the story.

      Yeah, I know, this isn't quite what it should be. Should be a good story and good gameplay together. And Warcraft certainly has the good gameplay...as I went back afterwards and played it normally.

      --

      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    4. Re:I give you 30 years. by Leiterfluid · · Score: 1

      30 more than they've already had?

      (Pong had the best story. Good vs. Evil. This line vs. That line!)

    5. Re:I give you 30 years. by sithsasquatch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think most people still don't consider the great film achievements the same thing as a Leonardo or a Michaelangelo. Film has a lot more legitimacy than it did but the inherently commercial nature of it could prevent it from ever being accepted the way the Classic Masters are.

      Masterpieces of any art form, be it painting, music, sculpture, or theater, all were inherently commercial ventures. Great paintings and sculptures were commissioned. Plays (even in ancient Greece) were funded by some benevolent patron and usually charged admission. Great classical composers wrote the music to operas and again charged admission.
      Even in their times, the Classic Masters still had to eat.

      --
      With so many ppl on /., how am I supposed to come up with a unique sig?
    6. Re:I give you 30 years. by Nasarius · · Score: 1
      Masterpieces of any art form, be it painting, music, sculpture, or theater, all were inherently commercial ventures.

      Absolutely. Shakespeare wrote for the commoners, crude jokes and all. But great art, whether it's literary, visual, musical, etc. has depth. Let me know when video games merit the equivalent of literary criticism.

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      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    7. Re:I give you 30 years. by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      Television is perfectly good art when people want it to be. See HBO for good examples of artful TV (eg. first season of Six Feet Under). Alternately, for the anime freaks, consider Neon Genesis Evangelion.

      Consider Simpsons, back in it's prime. Simpsons was the definition of TV that was both art and pop (like Shakespeare) - formulaic, yet creative; tasteless, yet deep; nostalgic, yet current; etc.

    8. Re:I give you 30 years. by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 1

      Let's be fair. Movies would've needed extra time too, if they had started off in black and white, with crappy sound and fuzzy graphics.

      Oh, wait. They did. Movies and video games are both falling into the same hole: the race for modern computer graphics. Just as we're attaining the possiblity of telling beautiful _and_ compelling stories, we're giving up and settling for flash and show.

    9. Re:I give you 30 years. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      You're assuming literary criticism is valid. Remember Shakespear was panned by the critics of his time. So were Van Gogh and Rembrandt. Artistic criticism is taking what becomes popular and rationalizing it, it has no value in and of itself. If anything, the lack of literary criticism is a point in gamings favor.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    10. Re:I give you 30 years. by sithsasquatch · · Score: 1

      They'll merit the equivalent of literary criticism when academics are allowed to write theses on videogames themselves, not just on videogames and psychological effects.

      --
      With so many ppl on /., how am I supposed to come up with a unique sig?
    11. Re:I give you 30 years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Remember Shakespear was panned by the critics of his time. So were Van Gogh and Rembrandt.

      Van Gogh, sure, because he was obviously nuts. But Rembrandt was always well received, and Shakespeare was highly regarded in his own time, though not to the level reached after his death.

    12. Re:I give you 30 years. by C0rinthian · · Score: 1

      Add J.S. Bach to that list. While living he was considered an excellent organ player, but his compositions weren't recognized until after his death.

      (Waiting for some joke about the phrase "organ player")

    13. Re:I give you 30 years. by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      We have videogames that are fine artwork now. Katamari Damacy arguably fits. Ico, likely. Warioware, probably. Parappa too (especially for the creative aspects to the game).

      There are others too, but it isn't often that games truly deserving of the adjective "artistic" become good sellers, for the same reasons that truly original games often don't become good sellers.

      Come to think of it, for exactly the same reason.

    14. Re:I give you 30 years. by MilenCent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a mistake to capitalize Television as if it were some single tremendous, amoeba-like object. There are indeed artistic television shows -- The Prisoner jumps most readily to mind.

      But my point is, there are glimmers of art in most things if you're looking for them. And, even the "traditional" artistic media (painting, sculpture, music, dance) have their icky, mindlessly populist sides (Elvis on velvet + dogs playing poker, Precious Moments, Brittany Spears, Macarana).

      There are also artistic things that don't work - in fact, some of the worst things are of this category. I regretfully point the interested viewer in the direction of a recent movie called Immortel (Ad Vitam), aka "Immortal" on US DVD. Oh, if only Mike and the bots were still up in space....

  3. An Ancient Tradition by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It is somewhat interesting to think about how deeply imbedded within us the concept of storytelling is. First, it was doen orally, came performances and the written word. From there we moved into movies (first silently and then with "talkies") and television. Now we are entering the genre of storytelling in which different people can play the same game and be told different stories. That's pretty amazing when you think of it. It is also kind of amazing that through all of these different iterations, it the fulfilliment of the basic human need of absorbing stories.

    Personally, I'm looking forward to experiencing the places that games take this ancient tradition.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    1. Re:An Ancient Tradition by Pxtl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In that veign, today's mindless-but-story-driven action games will be looked back upon with the same twisted mix of disgust and amusement that black-and-white Ed Wood shlock and pulp horror films are today. Prior generations will be viewed as the experimental phase of the field - like when moving pictures were all tricks of optical illusions and video cameras were experimental toys, and silent films relied on bizarre creative tricks to convey meaning.

      Doom is the modern Wizard of Oz - an impressive technical achievement, and kinda fun - but kinda campy and stupid in hindsight. Perhaps Zork is the modern Metropolis? Idunno. Repetative Asian CRPGs are the modern Spaghetti Westerns?

      And MMOs. MMOs are a revolutionary destruction of the art into the lowest-common-denominator. MMOs are the modern sitcoms. WoW is the Cosby show.

    2. Re:An Ancient Tradition by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1
      Repetative Asian CRPGs are the modern Spaghetti Westerns?

      Somehow I don't think the phrase "Chow Mein Fantasies" will ever catch on.

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
  4. The art of interactive design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The art of interactive design by Chris Crawfod

  5. Some people do not like film-styles by linzeal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I enjoy plays because I can concentrate on what I want in a scene instead of being dragged there through cinematography and the same can be said with games where I control the view. If you begin forcing people to view things in a certain way you will distance those who like more control.

    1. Re:Some people do not like film-styles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't think stage directors don't block a scene a particular way to direct your attention? I'd like to see you do Braveheart on a stage. In fact, games ought to let you have more control than ever, since YOU get to hold the camera most of the time!

    2. Re:Some people do not like film-styles by esampson · · Score: 1
      I don't think that the author is trying to say that games should be like movies. I think instead when he makes the comparison he is showing that games need to come into their own, much as movies had to do when they first came out.

      The author's point was that games, like movies, are a form of storytelling. What people need to do is to figure out what elements of cinematic storytelling work, what elements do not work, and what new elements exist that have not existed before. He uses movies simply because they are analogous to games at a certain base level and by examining the history of movies we can get some idea as to the current state of games in relation to where it can lead.

      In the earliest days of movies they were basically filmed as plays. Over time people learned to use the special characteristics of the medium such as dramatic lighting, special effects, and camera angles, to make the medium what it is today.

      Computer games are really just in their infancy. While our production and engineering capabilities have increased to the point where new technology such as DVD players can achieve in a few short years a level of market penetration that took VCRs a decade to accomplish innovations of style continues to creep along at the same slow pace. Zork was written around 1979. Edison patented the 'kinetoscope' in 1893 and opened the worlds first movie studio. This means that games are at the same level as movies in around 1919. Just for reference The Shiek with Valentino was released two years later, in 1921. Now ignore the technological differences such as lack of color or sound and compare the cinematography and acting of The Shiek with a more modern film, such as Lawrence of Arabia.

      And it should be noted that movie styles continue to change, though at a slower rate these days. Part of this is the fact that we, as a population, continue to change, and part of it is the continuing process of refinement. Compare The Great Escape with the much more recent Hart's War. While the Great Escape shows all the techniques used in more modern films it is still not as stylistically developed as more modern films.

      Now will you automatically like the new techniques that develop? Not neccessarily. As you point out you much prefer theatre over cinema. New storytelling techniques are not automatically better, they are just different. Books and movies are both storytelling methods and while you can't really get the same visceral impact of a high speed car chase in a book as a movie you also cannot really get the same depths of detail, insight, and empathy in a movie as can be achieved in a book. Every method has its strengths and weaknesses.

      The author's point isn't that games will become like movies. In fact if anything they will probably become less and less like movies over time, just as movies have become less and less like theatre. The author's real point is that there is a common base between the two and that by understanding the link games can be made better.

      Many movies forget their roots in theatre. They become so interested in the new things they can do, like car chases and big explosions, that they forget that they need certain essentials like character development and motivation. Likewise games of today are forgetting their storytelling roots.

      To some degree this is to be expected. Just like the earliest movie technology didn't allow actors to be heard by their audience, making it hard to convey the more subtle elements of the story the earliest game technologies were too limiting to allow all the subtle elements involved in creating compelling stories, but over time that is becoming less and less the case.

      Movies aren't the end point of game evolution. They are not the goal, but as the modern form of storytelling they are our start. They are the point we launched from, incomplete, just as movies were first incomplete when they launched from theatre. As time goes by we are regaining those tools of storytelling that we were forced to leave behind, but tools won't do us any good if we forget how to use them.

  6. Better characters by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I think a lot of stories would be better if the games had better characters in them. I can't count the number of games that have turned me off because the protaginist acted like a whiny, angst-filled teen, or was in fact designed to act like this. RPGs seem to be most guilty of this.

    Why not give us an older mature character who already understands love, death, sacrifice, and other emotions and parts of life so I don't have to be drug through horribly written plot. I've gotten really sick of the main character in almost every RPG having some love interest that they're too afraid to approach.

    Give the characters good voice acting if you're going to give them voices. Granted with a weak script not even a good voice actor can do much with it, but at least make an effort. Bad voice acting leaves me hating the characters and wishing they would die. Good voice acting can really make a game though.

    Lunar:SSSC despite the simple graphics and the simple cliche story that has been done a thousand times over, had interesting characters with real personalities and excellent voice acting. To date, I think it's the best execution of a video game I've seen even though the graphics are sprites and the cutscene animation is hand drawn.

    1. Re:Better characters by shawb · · Score: 1

      The whiny, angst-filled teen as central character in a video game actually makes sense as viewed through the paradigm of the Hero's Journey Joseph Campbell in his most famouse work The Hero with a Thousand Faces. After having to read the book and analyze it in high school english way back when, and then use it as the basis for literary analysis on a large number of other books, the basic point he is trying to get across is that every hero story is the same story: the story of coming of age, essentially puberty or the transformation from child to adult.

      If you accept that a hero story is puberty, that essentially means that every hero is a teenager. The angst that these teenage heroes show is not a result of just being melodramatic, but the result of deep seated fears about the uncertainty that the future presents, primarilly in respect to their relationships with the opposite sex. In video games, as well as movies, comic books, music, novels and pretty much any other story telling medium, this angst is just amplified and used for a dramatic effect against an even more dramatic and fantastic (as in feeling of fantasy and adventure, not as a synonym of "really really good") background.

      That, and the fact that RPG and other character driven video games are primarilly marketed to teenage males with a penchance for drama.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    2. Re:Better characters by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's simpler then that.

      The games are developed to attract their core audience: Teenage men and young adult men-- many of whom are whiny and filled with angst-- a bit like MTV.

    3. Re:Better characters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Though, of course, a lot of adults who like to complain about such characters (Anakin, EP II) tend to forget when they were teenagers, they were punks too. Natually, there will always be one "When I was a 14, I had three jobs and attended night school and worked the farm" bullshit story, but the fact is people forget that the teenage years are a huge developmental phase with a myriad of new probles to solve. Consequently there will be mistakes made (some major ones) and a lot of bitching and moaning along the way. Than again, adults do plenty of bitching and whining too.

    4. Re:Better characters by Karma+Farmer · · Score: 1

      Though, of course, a lot of adults who like to complain about such characters (Anakin, EP II) tend to forget when they were teenagers, they were punks too.

      Hamlet was a punk. Tetsuo was a punk. Nobody complains about punks.

      Anakin is a punk in the same way that Jar-Jar is a comedy relief sidekick.

    5. Re:Better characters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that part of the reason teenage protagonists are commonplace in Japanese games is because a lot of the protagonists in Japanese animation are also teenagers.

  7. hit the nail right on the head by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One problem that plagues the film industry is that every movie is a cookiecutter film. New ideas and new techniques are hard to come by.

    Why?

    Because it takes so much time, money, and effort to create one of these things. Same goes for games.

    MTV was a driving force in the creation of stylized films. It wasn't until the music video, where you had these independent directors and writers and film students creating these "small films" who were willing to experiment with new camera angles and new shooting techniques that you really got some interesting things going on with filmography. It cost so little $ (relative to feature films) that everyone was willing to experiment.

    The same goes for minigames. Sometimes, it's the minigames that make a game so good. It's the experimentation involved. You can sneak a couple of really risky gameplay elements (not risky like hot-coffee, risky like new game-mechanics!) into a couple of minigames and not affect the entire game.

    That's why games like warioware are so good. And that's why games that you can just pick up and play (like that kirby:CC game and a lot of the other DS games) have such great replay value.

    When more people experiment more with new types of gameplay in larger games, you'll have much better games.

    as an asside, a great, innovative (buzzword!) fighting game is Narutimet Hero for PS2; a japanese title. The best PS2 game I've ever played. The sequal is better because it has more characters, but the original has a cooler special-move style. You gotta play it to know what I mean.

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    ...spike
    Ewwwwww, coconut...
    1. Re:hit the nail right on the head by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why dont u just tell us what u mean by a "cooler special-move style", so i dont spend $50 on some game that someone on the internet said was cool.

    2. Re:hit the nail right on the head by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 1

      why dont u just tell us what u mean by a "cooler special-move style"

      well, you'll spend closer to 70$, but yeah.

      in Narutimet Hero 1, during a special move, the players have to hit a sequence of buttons (triangle, circle, square and X) that is randomly generated. If the defending player finishes first, he breaks out of the combo, if the offending player finishes first, it does twice the damage (or something to that effect).

      Narutimet Hero 2, the special move thing just consists of who can press the designated button the fastest, or twirl the analogue stick the fastest.

      After playing NH2 for about 20 minutes, you get tired from doing that so much (sometimes 3-4 times in a single round).

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      ...spike
      Ewwwwww, coconut...
    3. Re:hit the nail right on the head by wgaryhas · · Score: 1

      Why is everyone praising that Warioware game? I played it at a DS display at Bestbuy and thought it was the most stupid game I had ever played.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken
    4. Re:hit the nail right on the head by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're just not into that type of game? Did that occur to you? Also, the DS is a piece of crap when played on the stand in the store. Especially for that game.

      Maybe you just couldn't figure it out? ;)

      Have you played the original one for GBA or for gamecube? They're equally as awesome. As are the sequals.

      Then again, maybe the game just isn't for you.

      but, no need to insult the game's intelect.

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      ...spike
      Ewwwwww, coconut...
    5. Re:hit the nail right on the head by shawb · · Score: 1

      And then there's playing Warioware with friends. I've even seen it done as a drinking game. Ends up being about the right pacing. And less dangerous that making Dance Dance Revolution into a drinking game.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    6. Re:hit the nail right on the head by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't until the music video, where you had these independent directors and writers and film students creating these "small films" who were willing to experiment with new camera angles and new shooting techniques that you really got some interesting things going on with filmography.

      Are you joking?? Godard? Bunuel? Deren? Please.

  8. McKee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people have their doubts about McKee, based on his personality, or his emphasis on structure, or simply suspicions of his massive following. But here's something to consider: He's right. Deal with i.

    Bullshit. He's an arrogant asshole who's never written anything except a book on his opinions of how a story should go. Just because he's gotten himself imbedded in Hollywood doesn't make him an expert. It makes him Hollywood's latest "find".

  9. Hard to put a story into 3D frag fests by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Gamers don't like long drawn out storytelling in most of the popular games like Halo or Unreal, they just want to shoot em up and ask questions later. I do prefer games like HL2 that combining inline storytelling with real time action, but then again, games are not really intended to be innovative forms of storytelling.

    Perhaps the only genre that this article applies to is the RPG genre, which fights to combine 80+ hours of gameplay with a story that remains fresh from start to end. Most RPG's get stale by about hour 10, and by hour 40 they start to repeat themselves. The problem is that nobody can really generate 80 hours of storytelling, even novels don't take 80 hours to read.

    Its fun to critise developers for failing to offer really good stories in games, but they are not novelists or movie makers and for the most part, gamers really don't want long drawn out cut-scenes or read pages of text in order for the game to progress. If anything, developers should stop forcing a story into a game, and let the game unfold like real life, where events happen at random and people create their own adventures.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
    1. Re:Hard to put a story into 3D frag fests by gknoy · · Score: 1

      I disagree.

      The story for Marathon and Halo are much more deep and complex than many other shooter-type games, and were a significant factor in the games' popularity. Hell, people are STILL working to understand all the nuances of the overall story.

      Granted, many people bought Halo (and Halo2) forthe multiplayer -- which IS awesome. However, don't discount the popularity impact of the games' stories.

  10. Planescape: Torment. by PurpleFloyd · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If I ruled the game-development world, I would quite simply place the world's game scriptwriters in front of the RPG Planescape: Torment. If you've played it, you probably know why.

    If you haven't, here's a brief synopsis of what made it so very, very good (and thus, unfortunately, unusual):

    • The game had an engrossing story, which was revealed in steps. In the beginning, you simply wake up in a mortuary, with that somewhat hackneyed device of amnesia. However, instead of hearing your character's entire background five minutes into the game, or never understanding why the character would forget himself at all, the game instead uses an admittedly overused device to slowly reveal the nature of the character and allow you to define that character.
    • It allowed you to define the character. First, as a Dungeons and Dragons based game, it had a built-in alignment system. However, unlike most D&D games, it allowed you to choose your alignment naturally. You started out completely neutral, and your alignment shifted according to your actions. Furthermore, the game, which in large part centered around the question, "What can change the nature of a man?" actually allowed you to play the character such that almost any answer to that question was viable.
    • Finally, it allowed for great freedom. While the main plotline was mostly linear, the ways to accomplish the various tasks allowed the gamer to play almost any character. Have a character with high wisdom? Talk your way out of a fight by showing the uselessness of fighting. High charisma? Convince people that you're incredibly powerful and will mow right through them. Have high strength? Just bash your way through obstacles.
    While the game was certainly not without its flaws (lots of text-based exposition, which was read in a small dialog box and some of which might have been done better if movies were worked in, a mediocre interface, and somewhat dated technology) it still stands as a shining example of what storytelling in a game should be.
    --

    That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
    1. Re:Planescape: Torment. by bartle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is the only game I've ever played that I considered "literature". It had a central theme that flowed throughout the story and gave the player lots to think about. Tremendously well written with passages I think about to this day.

      A man stands in a path. There is nothing to the left or the right but an old crone stands in front of him. He can't remember anything, not even his own name. "You have used two wishes." the old crone says, "Now give me your last one."

      "Tell me who I am!" the man cries.

      "Funny" replies the old crone, "That was also your first wish."

    2. Re:Planescape: Torment. by david.given · · Score: 1
      This is the only game I've ever played that I considered "literature". It had a central theme that flowed throughout the story and gave the player lots to think about. Tremendously well written with passages I think about to this day.

      When Mort's backstory opened up, I spent about an hour sitting in front of my computer, just working through the dialogues, completely engrossed. There's some good writing in there.

      Admittedly, there's also some bad writing --- the Godsmen subplot is clumsy and doesn't work well. But on the whole, it's a fantastic game...

      (I haven't actually finished it. One problem with it is that it's too easy to power through the main plot without levelling up enough, which means that you when you reach the endgame you're too underpowered to be able to survive. I need to backtrack and spend some time power levelling.)

    3. Re:Planescape: Torment. by Allison+Geode · · Score: 1

      i had the same problem as you. the answer to this problem is fairly simple: save your best buff items for the endgame.

      I agree, this game is certainly literature. its also one of those games that two people can play and end up taking something completely different from it. when my friend was describing it to me after i referred him to it, he described whole portions of the game that i missed (I played chaotic good, he played chaotic evil... I never met the lady of pain, never got mazed, played a thoughtful and curious character.... yet he started acting like a fool the minute he woke up, stealing from everyone, killing them if he failed at stealing, and he was mazed fairly quickly.

      the scene in carceri (where curst slid to) and fighting the angel was unbelievable. it had an amazing sense of urgency, and because i'd grown attached to the characters, and the story, it was quite an impact, fighting through a monster-heavy area to rescue a townfull of people as they fought and died around me.

  11. A Dying Tradition by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 1

    Personally, I'm looking forward to experiencing the places that games take this ancient tradition.

    Straight to the gutter. But it'll be a bump-mapped gutter with photorealistic 1024x1024 textures! They'll be able to beautifully illustrate what're becoming the standard video game stories: "some famous guys play football," "a scantily clad woman shoots things," "a blonde man has angst and a big sword," etc.

    1. Re:A Dying Tradition by shawb · · Score: 1

      Let's see... "some famous guys play football." Well, people have been able to watch that with the live or telvised mediums, so why not.

      "A scantily clad woman shoots things." Nope. Haven't seen that in the movies ever. And wouldn't pay to see it again.

      "A blonde man has angst and a big sword." Man, that sounds like a terrible premise for a story. Now where's my Conan books?

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  12. What games.slashdot is slowly becoming by shoptroll · · Score: 1

    rss.gamasutra | games.slashdot

    End of story.

    --
    Insert Sig Here
  13. Every dev? by jasonwea · · Score: 4, Funny

    What every dev needs to know about story?

    I develop database apps you insensitive clod!

  14. Wizard of Oz by DoctaWatson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know that the Wizard of Oz is very analagous to Doom from a storytelling standpoint. The story of the Wizard of Oz was originally a book, and very likely a political-economic allegory.

    The story of Doom, on the other hand, is not only without a literary basis, but virtually non-existant in its own right.

    The "repetitive asian crpgs" is right on the money though. They're like a combination of Spagetti Western and Soap Operas with all sorts of freudian hardware (e.g. an angsty teenage boy with a 10 ft. sword...) and Disney-esque talking animals.

  15. Yeah right by DoctaWatson · · Score: 1

    At least 2 or 3 articles a day come straight from Gamespot or 1up.com

    1. Re:Yeah right by shoptroll · · Score: 1

      could be worse:

      if(games.slashdot.new_article_source=rss.blues.new s)
      {
          mod(article,-1,"redundant");
      }

      --
      Insert Sig Here
  16. Criticism is necessary by DoctaWatson · · Score: 1

    While it's true that Shakespeare, Van Gogh and other great masters were panned by the critics at the time, there is still criticism of their works that takes place today. The criticism of the present may have more bias and more deconstructive ego, but the critical analysis of past works is what helps them endure for future generations and encourages the creation of new masterpieces.

    That's what is meant by "constructive criticism".

  17. Games aren't stories either... by kreyg · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Movies are a logical extension of the play, which is a logical extension of the storyteller.

    Games are more an extension of playing make-believe. Certainly story can have a significant component in that, but it's more like setting plot points while the player fills in the blanks with their own story.

    Once we can exploit that fully, we'll be set.

    --
    sig fault
    1. Re:Games aren't stories either... by demi · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm not sure where we ran into the premise that the point of a video game is to tell a story. Esssentially, this article is "how to tell a story using a video game;" and while that's not bad as far as it goes, it still ignores the game nature of the game.

      To me, a video game is primarly a new medium in which to play a game--something we have been doing as long as we have been telling stories--and not primarily a new medium to tell stories.

      Games can certainly be enhanced by story, and you can certainly tell a story through a game, but it really isn't a necessary component.

      --
      demi
  18. gamers write their own stories by CrazyJoel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    all you need to do is set up the initial conflict. how the player or players seek to resolve that conflict contains all the drama, action, and story that anyone needs.

    if the conflict is as simple as "I'm trying to kill you and you're trying to kill me" that life-or-death struggle contains as much drama as anything you could try to manufacture.

    --

    Such is the infinite Grace of Popeye.
  19. Is the industry that narrow? by DingerX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The article evokes my English 101 course freshman year at college. We read The Bridge of San Luis Rey, and when it came to discussion this one guy (named, of all things, Blue) burst out, "Where's the antagonism?"

    Basically, the article's author is trying to convince game industry types why writers and story are necessary, but he shoots himself in the foot by limiting the industry to one genre and deploying a notion of "classical narrative" from literature that really doesn't work outside of epics and sitcoms.

    Reading his article, his focus is on long, narrative-driven games. But this focus limits the utility. When he argues at the end that writers are necessary, I ask: why? Okay, for some pompous over-the-top thing like Deus Ex, sure. But the whole Mario Brothers franchise? Antagonism and Reversal are reduced to mere stubs to drive the platform-based fun. And the last game Maxis produced with antagonism in it was Robosport, and I don't see that mentioned as their greatest achievement.

    The article starts out with a comparison to the early days of cinema. The inherent problem is that, well, viewing cinema as a teleological march, isolated from other genres presents a distorted picture of the medium. You know why? They're still showing moving pictures of stage plays, and travelogues, and all those other genres that the article wants to imply "failed" because of a lack of narrative. They're just showing them on TV, not in the movie theaters. And, incidently, the way movies were socially experienced 75 years ago is entirely different from today. So the genre doesn't evolve in a vacuum. The same could be said for videogames. They're still making games like Snake, and little puzzle games, but they're on telephones and portable game machines.

    So I object to the 80/20 rules too. Plays are not 80-20 audio-visual any more than movies are 80-20 visual-audio: it varies from piece to piece. Go into a godawful European nineteenth-century opera house, imagine it full of people (heaven forfend going to an opera--I wouldn't ask that of anyone), and tell me it's 80% about the singing. If that's so, why all the visual distractions that bombard us?

    But if you're going to characterize videogames or any other bit of entertainment, look at how they're experienced. The cognitive experience is the target, not what goes to the screen or the speakers, or the overglorified adult novelty device they call a controller.

    So, you want to say dialog sucks. Well, having just tried facade, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But then again, I've had some excellent experiences of in-game dialog, but they all involved communications with other humans. Robo-Dialog also works for setting the context: radio chatter, conversations at a party, a domestic squabble in an abandoned building, some surreal nonsense blasted from huge loudspeakers. But sure, dialog central to the narrative is problematic because the player can't (yet) interact with the characters on the same level (if anyone wants some facade scripts where I yell repeatedly for a goddamned martini only to get quizzical looks from the warring couple, let me know).

    I guess that brings us back to the novel, and the issue of fiction. If the game has a linear structure, then someone has to write that linear structure, and a Joseph Campbellesque High School writing class approach will work just fine for most cases. But don't think that all great literature is written that way, nor even that most games have such a structure. There are plenty of other structures out there:

    Sports: the game provides regulated social interaction. It doesn't matter whether it is a "sports game" (Madden), a simulation (CS), MMORPG, or something completely abstract: the value people derive from it is social contact with others. Narrative, writers and all that are not necessary for the sports element to work: people create their own narratives.

    Drugs: many, many games work on the princ

  20. Look a little closer by Boronx · · Score: 1

    Antagonism and Reversal are reduced to mere stubs to drive the platform-based fun.

    Dude, every big boss or new type of enemy in a platformer is a reversal

    And the last game Maxis produced with antagonism in it was Robosport, and I don't see that mentioned as their greatest achievement.

    Maxis games are "Hero vs. Environment" at their most literal. In Sim City, the hero is the city. The antagonists are all those forces that like to see cities fail. Each disaster is a ( potential ) reversal, so is each unexpected swing in economy.