Ah, but you must think outside the box, Sefert! 9 fielders, 1 batter, 4 base umpires and 9,986 people sitting in the stands watching: all for a reasonable one-time purchase cost plus monthly fee! This is bound to take off...
If you are actually an author then you should be keenly aware of just how hard it is for most people to grasp the subtleties behind effective storytelling. You should also know that "a flow chart of basic events" is all well and good for consistency but isn't worthwhile for character development, which (at least IMHO) is where most video games fall short. Have pity for the people who don't have the grasp that you do on storytelling but remember that videogame writing is a world apart from screenwriting or novels.
I'd like to preface this by applauding you for posting anonymously: you'll need it.
I'd also like to compliment your ability to totally destroy all potential for constructive discourse by tossing in some ad homenim which groups all PC gamers in the category of "hardcore dudes in their twenties whose entire gaming world revolves around the x86 peecee." Brilliant work, Socrates. Now, on to actually discussing the issue:
Regarding your comment about x86 growth potential: have you ever considered that some people play games because they are fun and not graphically spectacular? With the current and upcoming console platforms, how many developers are there, do you think, who don't sweat bullets over making their game visually stunning like everyone else? How many console games have you come across in the past 2 years that don't do their utmost best to convince you that their graphics are superior, so you therefore want to buy it? It's the exact opposite of what you have described: diehard console developers killing themselves to make the next look better than the previous. If you want proof of this, I give you 2 words: True Crime. It sucked on the XBox, because the developers obviously spent all their time on the graphics, rendering a nice looking game with crappy AI, an unimaginative weapon system, and some of the shoddiest level designs I have ever seen.
And you want to talk about endless streams of 20k titles? Do you know how long they've been making Madden Football games? Since 1989! Then there's the MLB games and the NFL games and NHL games. Goddamn, the list never stops! For the benefit of all/.'ers reading this, please name 4 PC franchises to match this list that mercilessly continue cranking out games year after year.
Finally, the reason why the PC has always had so much gaming potential is precisely because it's not "a mass of diehard Microsoft developers." Without PC gaming we wouldn't have titles from companys like Infogrames, Blizzard, and Sierra, to name a few. Without PC gaming, ID software would not exist, because a Nintendo would fellate you before it would run something like DOOM.
I think it would be really cool if you would qualify any of the statements you've made, but particularly the claim that, "Peecee gaming isn't really going anywhere, it will continue to shrink and become less and less relevant over time."
What do you base this on outside your own personal experience? What are these "certain genres" that have been spared this "decline" that you are talking about? Why would you say the XBox has had any more impact on the landscape of PC gaming than the Playstation or GameCube? Can you please clarify what you mean by "cannibalized...PC developer resources" and then relate to us how you came to conclude that "a large portion" of said resources were taken. By your reference to Deus Ex 2, are you inferring that FPS's suffer more than other genres? Please help us out here so we can make a group effort out of pulling your foot from your mouth.
Who thought Alien Hominid, at least the Flash version, wasn't actually all that great? The graphics are somewhat interesting and the plot gimmick is fun, but come on: if I want a side-scrolling shooter where the odds are stacked so desperately against me that level 2 is more a matter of divine intervention than skill then I'll just go play Metal Slug.
What's the deal/.'ers? Did I just not play long enough to get into it?
Yeah..yeah, me too. I am also working on something. It really will change the way people think about things forever. I can't tell you anything about it, or when it might be ready, or what it is...or who I am...but it's totally gonna rock!
Or maybe you could just get over it and realize that they aren't the only game making company out there with questionable business ethic, just one of the biggest.
If you like Burnout or Oddworld, then play Burnout or Oddworld. If you feel so compelled to tell us about why you irrationally dislike EA, submit an article with an actual explanation instead of talking about how they're "evil."
Moving on the actual topic:
I'm already excited about the game just from the fact that you can become airborne in parts of the game besides Crash Mode (or whatever it will be called). My friends and I have played Burnout 3 to death and the new one is already sold to me just based on that.
For any 3d enthusiasts out there, Newtek interviewed Peter Lake, one of Criterion's head Art honchos a while back about the making of Burnout 3.
because you'd be out of your mind putting stress on your $200 game console's optical drive rather than your $20 CD player's optical drive? just a thought.
Heh, way to miss the point. Regardless of what you may think of Louis Armstring's music, the issue is that the RIAA is responsible for infringing on the creative process of many artists who would otherwise be well recieved by the consumer public. Continuing in this vein, the RIAA's assertion that they are a champion of manufacturer/consumer morality is...how would one put it...bullshit.
In addition to previously mentioned innovations made by Nintendo (4 controller ports standard, etc.) another benefit of mini disc size is it forces publishers to actually use their brains when producing GC games.
Strangely enough, less space on disc available to the gamemaker means they can't just cram a bunch of FMV sequences into a crapass game then ship it off. When you consider that all new games cost about the same upon release, I'd say the gamer benefits from publishers rising to meet that challenge.
And even if Nintendo is playing the idiot corporation card for E3, I still think they deserve credit for game ideas that, IMHO, benefit the gamer in the end. I think a great example of this is the Donkey Konga/Jungle Run franchise. I realize that Dance Dance Revolution existed before this, but Nintendo seems to be the first one to actually bring this idea to the console. "Hey, wow! How about we make something new, as opposed to making yet another sports sim game?"
That of course begs the question "does anyone give a damn?" I'm not trying to be rude, just pointing out that WoW and the like are games, nothing more. When a game has built-in mechanics that cause frustration in most/all of its players, is it really that well designed?
I know the whole point of hardcore play is the added element of challenge, but is there really a point to implementing something that less than 1% of players will enjoy.
Another thing to consider is the human factor. I could only begin to imagine the tech support headaches stemming from people who have suffered the effects of hardcore play without being prepared to deal with them. About to die? Pull your ethernet cord, let the game log that you timed out, log on, bitch out tech support for you dying because of "lag" or "being disconnected."
I think he fundamental problem behind hardcore play in games that you pay actual money for per month is the risk for both the player and the provider. Players risk losing months of work they've payed for and providers risk being on the recieving end of a lawsuit when jackass player X loses a character due to server lag and demands retribution.
The problem, QuantamG, is that beauracracy is typically unwilling to explore new methods when old, proven methods are available.
Compounding this problem is the fact that American politicians/higher-ups seem to lack the ability to say, "I'm sorry, I screwed up. Everyone makes mistakes," so possibly funding a program that fails in the public eye is a non-option.
It is true that the government has programs that fail all the time [computerworld.com]; it's just that something like space travel is more suitable for general public news consumption so it's more widely reported and therefore a touchy subject for most politicians.
I agree, we should be putting money into exploring better technology now, so space endeavors will be more efficient later. All the more reason to do things like voting and calling your congresspersons
P.S.- The above statement isn't an invitation to talk about how fucked up American politics are. Sorry if anyone views it that way.
The best part will be that the 7.1 sound will be put together from contributions by users just like you and me from all over the world!
The levels will be mostly ok, except for the sections where people have entries for themselves in which the dB level will be upped by 10 +-5. Also, the encoding will be completely and totally correct, except for a very small flaw which will cause the center right speaker to output everything in Latin.
For real. Every EA Bond game so far has been an excellent example of why EA needs to reconsider their hiring philosophy for FPS project managers.
Nothing blows my immersion experience of a game apart like enemies spawning RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and being able to hit accurately with a handgun from 300 yards.
As a programmer you should know that CD/DVD read speeds can't even compare to HDD read speeds. Playing from disc also hurts the issue of disk swapping ("Please insert Cinematics Disc.....Please insert Play Disc).
It's true that installation can be a pain in the ass, but playing from HDD means that I can bust out an ISO and put away my easy-to-break CD/DVD media in a safe place.
That also begs the issue of additional content. It's no trouble to download or purchase new content for games, or even to make my own. What if I want the new levels for Halo 2 but don't want to shell out for Xbox Live? I'm SOL.
I think this just proves that PC vs. console is an issue of preference. IMHO, the decline of PC gaming comes from lack of interest from publishers. How much longer does the PC port of GTA:San Andreas take to come out than the PS2 version? Will Devil May Cry 3 ever be on PC? What about Metal Gear Solid 3?
The sad reality of that situation is that even if a group did exist to facilitate such an effort: there is so much shit involved with exporting computing machinery that it probably isn't worth it. You can't even ship a playstation to certain areas of the world, the rationale being that you could use the CPU in it to guide a nuclear missile or something of that nature.
I agree that the idea is great. Disposing of computers is an involved and expensive process, especially for older machines that have relatively high amounts of mercury and arsenic in them. There's just too much red tape.
"In fact, Norman thinks companies could benefit from instituting 15 minute 'frustration breaks'"
Ha! I'm so far ahead of this Norman guy! My computer already has "frustration breaks" from my fists.
Me: 1 Consultant Guy: 0
What you are saying is just supposition, though. I agree with all of your statements from a holistic view, but when it comes to treatment before the law you can't deal in generalities like "my impression of P2P users" and "ads are often removed."
The Betamax Shield refers specifically to vendor liability for consumer violation of copyright through the use of their product that is otherwise intended for legitimate purposes. I'm not saying we should all ignore the rampant piracy that takes place because such software exists, but the point of the Betamax Shield precedent is protecting the vendor from the consumer acting like a fucktard.
For example: if you manufacture cars and I intentionally drive one of your cars through a busy intersection, causing a crash, do you think it's fair that you are blamed for making a product that has the potential to let the user kill people?
And I know that the car example is extreme, but in the scope of law, which is based on ideals, it's the exact same thing as people ripping off music with Grokster as opposed to sharing non-copyrighted/open source material.
That principle hasn't seemed to have stopped people like Microsoft, who patent things like "Indicator that other party is typing a message on IM".
US Patent law isn't the most watertight legislation ever produced. Just ask Tesla what he thinks of Marconi;).
Slashdot Mirror
Ah, but you must think outside the box, Sefert! 9 fielders, 1 batter, 4 base umpires and 9,986 people sitting in the stands watching: all for a reasonable one-time purchase cost plus monthly fee! This is bound to take off...
If you are actually an author then you should be keenly aware of just how hard it is for most people to grasp the subtleties behind effective storytelling. You should also know that "a flow chart of basic events" is all well and good for consistency but isn't worthwhile for character development, which (at least IMHO) is where most video games fall short. Have pity for the people who don't have the grasp that you do on storytelling but remember that videogame writing is a world apart from screenwriting or novels.
Once again, I'm humbled by ad homenim, anonymous posting, and non-presentation of actual facts to back up claims.
I'd like to preface this by applauding you for posting anonymously: you'll need it.
I'd also like to compliment your ability to totally destroy all potential for constructive discourse by tossing in some ad homenim which groups all PC gamers in the category of "hardcore dudes in their twenties whose entire gaming world revolves around the x86 peecee." Brilliant work, Socrates. Now, on to actually discussing the issue:
Regarding your comment about x86 growth potential: have you ever considered that some people play games because they are fun and not graphically spectacular? With the current and upcoming console platforms, how many developers are there, do you think, who don't sweat bullets over making their game visually stunning like everyone else? How many console games have you come across in the past 2 years that don't do their utmost best to convince you that their graphics are superior, so you therefore want to buy it? It's the exact opposite of what you have described: diehard console developers killing themselves to make the next look better than the previous. If you want proof of this, I give you 2 words: True Crime. It sucked on the XBox, because the developers obviously spent all their time on the graphics, rendering a nice looking game with crappy AI, an unimaginative weapon system, and some of the shoddiest level designs I have ever seen.
And you want to talk about endless streams of 20k titles? Do you know how long they've been making Madden Football games? Since 1989! Then there's the MLB games and the NFL games and NHL games. Goddamn, the list never stops! For the benefit of all /.'ers reading this, please name 4 PC franchises to match this list that mercilessly continue cranking out games year after year.
Finally, the reason why the PC has always had so much gaming potential is precisely because it's not "a mass of diehard Microsoft developers." Without PC gaming we wouldn't have titles from companys like Infogrames, Blizzard, and Sierra, to name a few. Without PC gaming, ID software would not exist, because a Nintendo would fellate you before it would run something like DOOM.
I think it would be really cool if you would qualify any of the statements you've made, but particularly the claim that, "Peecee gaming isn't really going anywhere, it will continue to shrink and become less and less relevant over time."
What do you base this on outside your own personal experience? What are these "certain genres" that have been spared this "decline" that you are talking about? Why would you say the XBox has had any more impact on the landscape of PC gaming than the Playstation or GameCube? Can you please clarify what you mean by "cannibalized...PC developer resources" and then relate to us how you came to conclude that "a large portion" of said resources were taken. By your reference to Deus Ex 2, are you inferring that FPS's suffer more than other genres? Please help us out here so we can make a group effort out of pulling your foot from your mouth.
Who thought Alien Hominid, at least the Flash version, wasn't actually all that great? The graphics are somewhat interesting and the plot gimmick is fun, but come on: if I want a side-scrolling shooter where the odds are stacked so desperately against me that level 2 is more a matter of divine intervention than skill then I'll just go play Metal Slug.
/.'ers? Did I just not play long enough to get into it?
What's the deal
Yeah..yeah, me too. I am also working on something. It really will change the way people think about things forever. I can't tell you anything about it, or when it might be ready, or what it is...or who I am...but it's totally gonna rock!
Or maybe you could just get over it and realize that they aren't the only game making company out there with questionable business ethic, just one of the biggest.
If you like Burnout or Oddworld, then play Burnout or Oddworld. If you feel so compelled to tell us about why you irrationally dislike EA, submit an article with an actual explanation instead of talking about how they're "evil."
Moving on the actual topic:
I'm already excited about the game just from the fact that you can become airborne in parts of the game besides Crash Mode (or whatever it will be called). My friends and I have played Burnout 3 to death and the new one is already sold to me just based on that.
For any 3d enthusiasts out there, Newtek interviewed Peter Lake, one of Criterion's head Art honchos a while back about the making of Burnout 3.
because you'd be out of your mind putting stress on your $200 game console's optical drive rather than your $20 CD player's optical drive? just a thought.
Heh, way to miss the point. Regardless of what you may think of Louis Armstring's music, the issue is that the RIAA is responsible for infringing on the creative process of many artists who would otherwise be well recieved by the consumer public. Continuing in this vein, the RIAA's assertion that they are a champion of manufacturer/consumer morality is...how would one put it...bullshit.
In addition to previously mentioned innovations made by Nintendo (4 controller ports standard, etc.) another benefit of mini disc size is it forces publishers to actually use their brains when producing GC games.
Strangely enough, less space on disc available to the gamemaker means they can't just cram a bunch of FMV sequences into a crapass game then ship it off. When you consider that all new games cost about the same upon release, I'd say the gamer benefits from publishers rising to meet that challenge.
And even if Nintendo is playing the idiot corporation card for E3, I still think they deserve credit for game ideas that, IMHO, benefit the gamer in the end. I think a great example of this is the Donkey Konga/Jungle Run franchise. I realize that Dance Dance Revolution existed before this, but Nintendo seems to be the first one to actually bring this idea to the console. "Hey, wow! How about we make something new, as opposed to making yet another sports sim game?"
That of course begs the question "does anyone give a damn?" I'm not trying to be rude, just pointing out that WoW and the like are games, nothing more. When a game has built-in mechanics that cause frustration in most/all of its players, is it really that well designed?
I know the whole point of hardcore play is the added element of challenge, but is there really a point to implementing something that less than 1% of players will enjoy.
Another thing to consider is the human factor. I could only begin to imagine the tech support headaches stemming from people who have suffered the effects of hardcore play without being prepared to deal with them. About to die? Pull your ethernet cord, let the game log that you timed out, log on, bitch out tech support for you dying because of "lag" or "being disconnected."
I think he fundamental problem behind hardcore play in games that you pay actual money for per month is the risk for both the player and the provider. Players risk losing months of work they've payed for and providers risk being on the recieving end of a lawsuit when jackass player X loses a character due to server lag and demands retribution.
I can see it now... "LANboni, 2005"
The problem, QuantamG, is that beauracracy is typically unwilling to explore new methods when old, proven methods are available.
Compounding this problem is the fact that American politicians/higher-ups seem to lack the ability to say, "I'm sorry, I screwed up. Everyone makes mistakes," so possibly funding a program that fails in the public eye is a non-option.
It is true that the government has programs that fail all the time [computerworld.com]; it's just that something like space travel is more suitable for general public news consumption so it's more widely reported and therefore a touchy subject for most politicians.
I agree, we should be putting money into exploring better technology now, so space endeavors will be more efficient later. All the more reason to do things like voting and calling your congresspersons
P.S.- The above statement isn't an invitation to talk about how fucked up American politics are. Sorry if anyone views it that way.
So remember children, what should you do if a supernova happens in your solar system? Yes, that's right. Duck and cover.
The best part will be that the 7.1 sound will be put together from contributions by users just like you and me from all over the world!
The levels will be mostly ok, except for the sections where people have entries for themselves in which the dB level will be upped by 10 +-5. Also, the encoding will be completely and totally correct, except for a very small flaw which will cause the center right speaker to output everything in Latin.
It's good to hear that that content at least isn't tied to subscription fee.
For real. Every EA Bond game so far has been an excellent example of why EA needs to reconsider their hiring philosophy for FPS project managers.
Nothing blows my immersion experience of a game apart like enemies spawning RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and being able to hit accurately with a handgun from 300 yards.
*ahem*
while(player_line_of_sight)
{
spawnable(false);
}
As a programmer you should know that CD/DVD read speeds can't even compare to HDD read speeds. Playing from disc also hurts the issue of disk swapping ("Please insert Cinematics Disc.....Please insert Play Disc).
It's true that installation can be a pain in the ass, but playing from HDD means that I can bust out an ISO and put away my easy-to-break CD/DVD media in a safe place.
That also begs the issue of additional content. It's no trouble to download or purchase new content for games, or even to make my own. What if I want the new levels for Halo 2 but don't want to shell out for Xbox Live? I'm SOL.
I think this just proves that PC vs. console is an issue of preference. IMHO, the decline of PC gaming comes from lack of interest from publishers. How much longer does the PC port of GTA:San Andreas take to come out than the PS2 version? Will Devil May Cry 3 ever be on PC? What about Metal Gear Solid 3?
The sad reality of that situation is that even if a group did exist to facilitate such an effort: there is so much shit involved with exporting computing machinery that it probably isn't worth it. You can't even ship a playstation to certain areas of the world, the rationale being that you could use the CPU in it to guide a nuclear missile or something of that nature.
I agree that the idea is great. Disposing of computers is an involved and expensive process, especially for older machines that have relatively high amounts of mercury and arsenic in them. There's just too much red tape.
"In fact, Norman thinks companies could benefit from instituting 15 minute 'frustration breaks'" Ha! I'm so far ahead of this Norman guy! My computer already has "frustration breaks" from my fists. Me: 1 Consultant Guy: 0
What you are saying is just supposition, though. I agree with all of your statements from a holistic view, but when it comes to treatment before the law you can't deal in generalities like "my impression of P2P users" and "ads are often removed." The Betamax Shield refers specifically to vendor liability for consumer violation of copyright through the use of their product that is otherwise intended for legitimate purposes. I'm not saying we should all ignore the rampant piracy that takes place because such software exists, but the point of the Betamax Shield precedent is protecting the vendor from the consumer acting like a fucktard. For example: if you manufacture cars and I intentionally drive one of your cars through a busy intersection, causing a crash, do you think it's fair that you are blamed for making a product that has the potential to let the user kill people? And I know that the car example is extreme, but in the scope of law, which is based on ideals, it's the exact same thing as people ripping off music with Grokster as opposed to sharing non-copyrighted/open source material.
That principle hasn't seemed to have stopped people like Microsoft, who patent things like "Indicator that other party is typing a message on IM". US Patent law isn't the most watertight legislation ever produced. Just ask Tesla what he thinks of Marconi ;).
How would you like it if I took your...gourd....thing....Mr. click-click-dirk?! *apologizes to anyone who doesn't get the South Park reference*
I think he's asking when someone's going to fix the 404 error. Poor guy.