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Update on Standards and CSS in IE7
brajesh writes "Chris Wilson has posted on IEBlog about the Standards and CSS in IE7. According to the post, "In IE7, we will fix as many of the worst bugs that web developers hit as we can, and we will add the critical most-requested features from the standards as well. Though you won't see (most of) these until Beta 2". Further,"we will not pass this (Acid2 browse) test when IE7 ships.""
This was with reference to CSS standards and web development, not exploitable vulnerabilities in the browser's security.
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Hopefully, most of those are using IE quirks mode, as they shouldn't know about DOCTYPE. Just a slight hope.
Acid isn't a standard at all, it's a test. It tests compliance against CSS standards, it's not a standard itself.
To be honest, ACID2 isn't that important - it tests some extreme corner cases in CSS usage. If you are 100% CSS compliant then it should work, but if you are 80% compliant then there are more important things to implement than passing ACID2.
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Since the Webstandards site has been /.ed, here's a mirror of the Acid2 test:
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http://whereswalden.com/files/webdev/acid2/test.h
Funny how quickly the MS bashing begins, yet when I just tried the Acid2 test with Firefox (my browser of choice btw), the results were far from impressive. And correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know Acid2 isn't an officially accepted standard, it's a *proposed* standard.
Acid2 is a test of the CSS standard, not the standard itself. And no, Firefox doesn't pass. But the Firefox team has made it a goal TO pass, unlike the IE team which has apparently said, "screw it, we're not going to waste our time just to pass that." IE is shooting for "good enough."
Considering the amount of money Microsoft could theoretically pump into development on the next version of IE, wouldn't it make more sense for them to be the first to pass the test (and by doing so provide implied compliance with the standard)?
Opera Acid2 as of today and the forum post accompanying the attachment:
Good news for Opera users.
This question has been answered several times. As it seems, Opera renders it mostly correctly (significantly better than FireFox), and their reps say they're working on passing it completely. Safari passes it now, but the version that does isn't available yet. The same goes for Konqueror (I think).
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(/snip)
So I think that sums most of 'em.
And look, if IE6 fails miserably the ACID2 test, i'm really hoping we'll see a yellow blurb at least in IE7 (right now it's like a red wall with some pieces of slaughtered yellow-face in there).
In firefox we don't see the face, but at least we can see a nice yellow thing with wierd not-intended-to-be sunglasses on... kinda.
So I'm quite curious how the ACID2 will render in IE7...
Acid2 is a test of the CSS standard, not the standard itself. And no, Firefox doesn't pass. But the Firefox team has made it a goal TO pass, unlike the IE team which has apparently said, "screw it, we're not going to waste our time just to pass that." IE is shooting for "good enough."
From TFB (the fucking blog):
As a wish list, it is really important and useful to my team, but it isn't even intended, in my understanding, as our priority list for IE7.
We fully recognize that IE is behind the game today in CSS support. We've dug through the Acid 2 Test and analyzed IE's problems with the test in some great detail, and we've made sure the bugs and features are on our list - however, there are some fairly large and difficult features to implement, and they will not all sort to the top of the stack in IE7. I believe we are doing a much better service to web developers out there in IE7 by fixing our known bang-your-head-on-the-desk bugs and usability problems first, and prioritizing the most commonly-requested features based on all the feedback we've had.
So, they view it as a useful wishlist, they are implementing lots of stuff from it, but they don't expect full compliance for the scheduled release (which is scheduled to be long before the Vista release, possibly this year). From my perspective, this is quite a bit from "screw it, we're not going to waste our time just to pass that."
safari and konqueror pass, but opera and ff do not.
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at least not according to slashdot: http://slashdot.org/search.pl?tid=&query=acid2&au
Someone didn't read the thread. FF isn't competing on the standards front. It doens't pass Acid2, either.
You forgot the dollar sign, troll.
Opera is very close to passing Acid2 test.
Box-model in IE was fixed around 2001. Fix YOUR code.
I'd like IE to support basics like width , height , display:inline and float . Currently under these names Microsoft has implemented min-width, min-height, display:inline-block and god-knows-what, respectively.
Firefox garbage collects? I can't say that I've ever seen it release ram once it's been allocated it, even after closing tabs.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
For the ten millionth time. There is bogus CSS because the acid2 also tests the case of fallback on invalid css! There is a very good reason the bad code is there! To make sure browsers can handle it!
What, people already forgot the fracas set off when Dave Hyatt landed complete Acid2 rendering in the WebCore CVS (which you CAN download and use - quite easily I might add)?
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
Ahem. Shipping? No. Download it and use it right now? Yes.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
If you will all look towards the left, you will see Deer Park Alpha 2 (Firefox 1.1) getting acid2 very, very near.
Besides, rendering Acid2 is not a test of correct CSS rendering, it's a test of invalid css rendering. Firefox has nigh-on perfect CSS2 capabilities - when the CSS is correct. What Acid2 is designed to test is the browser's resilience to errors. Ironically, IE should do very well at this, since it renders totally invalid HTML as it was meant to be rendered.
Considering the amount of money Microsoft could theoretically pump into development on the next version of IE, wouldn't it make more sense for them to be the first to pass the test (and by doing so provide implied compliance with the standard)?
Microsoft won't be the first to pass Acid2, not unless all that money's going to buy A MAGICAL TIME MACHINE...
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Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Actually, the reason why it looks bad in IE is that the first item in the test is a Data url, which is the pet project of the person who wrote the test. IE doesn't support it. Once the first item is screwed, the rendering of the rest doesn't matter.
WebKit, used in Safari, passed it months ago. Not in a shipping version of Safari yet (conflict testing), but free for download now at webkit.opendarwin.org.
Hello, and welcome to reality. IE is the standard. Any alternate browser that doesn't render a page exactly the same as IE is not standards compliant. I don't code to W3C standards, I code to IE, because that's what's on the desktops of my users.
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What IE rendering standard are you talking about? Are you talking about IE6 on w2k? IE6 on windows XP with SP1 with SP2? I have looked over microsofts website and msdn areas and have never found an IE rendering standard. From my experience IE6 does not render the same on all platforms and stuff designed for the IE5.5 and IE5.0 rendering does not always work correctly with IE6.
There IS NO IE STANDARD. THERE NEVER HAS BEEN AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL BE!
You are designing for the quirks in the particular browsers you are testing and that breaks from version to version. Even ms products that export to html don't work in all IE6 properly. Different patches do change the behavior of the rendering engine.
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The test is used to test whether a page will render pages that are not 100% compliant.
No. Lots of people have said this, it's misleading. It's true that one of the things Acid2 tests is error handling. That's one checkpoint on a list of over a dozen items.
Personally I prefer that my browser does not render non-compliant pages.
The CSS specification includes mandatory error handling. If a browser acts in the way you describe, it will be rendering pages in a non-standard way.
Compiling WebKit takes little to no effort at all. After the initial checkout from CVS, all you have to do is type two commands to update and build your source. See http://webkit.opendarwin.org/building/checkout.htm l for more information