PS3 Details Slowly Emerging

The Playstation Magazine (PSM) has a feature coming up in the next issue which discusses Sony's new console with a few new details. Both Maxconsole and Ferrago have a look at the piece. From the Maxconsole article: "We've received a lot of letters asking about how PS2 will be backwards compatible with PS2 and the original Playstation if it doesn't have memory card slot. Well, we have an answer, and it's both good and bad. First, the bad news: All of those old memory cards you have won't be usable with PS3. Okay then, wha's the solution? Sony has actually decided to only use Memory Stick Duo cards(the same format PSP uses) for PS3 save data. However, if you play a PS1 or PS2 game on PS3, the system will treat the Memory Stick like it's a normal memory card."

Comments

Oh come on people...

[Godeke]

OK, so there I am on the prior story saying how much I look forward to the PS3 because of the backwards compatibility and here comes an article telling me that my save files are junk. Good grief, they couldn't put a *single* reader slot for the old cards? I wouldn't care if they made me copy the data over prior to use, except for those few games with "protected" save files that you can't move are still in trouble. I wouldn't even care if it was on the back or something silly, since I would only copy the files once.

Please tell me that they aren't this stupid? I have games from the PS1 that I haven't finished (turn based strategy games may look bad, but still play great) and a lot of games on the PS2 in progress.

Re:Oh come on people...

[WaterBreath]

Please tell me that they aren't this stupid?

They aren't "this stupid". "This stupid" would be to guarantee full backward compatility at every step, tying themselves indefinitely to ancient, obsolete hardware and software.

We should be thanking Sony for even bothering to support the PS1 at all. It's two generations back now. Heaven forbid you should have to start a game over. We're lucky we'll even be able to play them at all. I certainly was surprised.

I have games from the PS1 that I haven't finished...

PS1 machines aren't going to magically stop working once the PS3 comes out. Keep your PS1.

...and a lot of games on the PS2 in progress

PS2 machines aren't going to magically stop working once the PS3 comes out. Keep your PS2.

Sorry to sound snide. I just don't understand where you're coming from with this complaint. Are you really outraged, or just disappointed? Either way, I don't think it's fair, or correct, to call it a stupid move.

Re:Oh come on people...

[Godeke]

Yes, I can keep the PS2, but when I got the PS2 I gave the PS1 to relatives. I already have four consoles under this roof and making it so I can't just swap it out means I probably will just wait that much longer to buy, since I already have a library of games that I play. A lot of the games have unlockable content and when you are on the next to last mission of Ring of Red you don't want to start over. It isn't the new memory architecture, it is the inability to migrate to the new memory architecture while at the very same time you can use the games. If I have to wait until I finish all my old games before I buy, I won't buy soon.

Maybe this doesn't matter to the "look shiny" crowd who doesn't play 100+ hour strategy games and rarely finishes anything, but it is an inconvience for me. the article questions whether a DEX drive might migrate the files... here is hoping it will, because I will be right there.

Re:Oh come on people...

[bleaknik]

After reading your comment, I ran some numbers. I've got enough games that I still want to complete that I figure I should be done just in time for the next Duke Nukem title.

Wait a minute.................

Re:Oh come on people...

[MasterOfMagic]

Given people's obsession with finding out the secrets of the PS2 and the PS3 and given the lucrative market, I'm sure that GameShark or ActionReplay will come out with a device or software to do this migration for you. For example, a version of the SharkPort that works on the PS2 to take the games from it and move them to the PS3.

Just because Sony won't support this in the console doesn't mean that it won't be supported by third parties.

I predict 100% backwards compatibility...

[It doesn't come easy]

We've received a lot of letters asking about how PS2 will be backwards compatible with PS2 and the original Playstation [...]

All of Sony's electronic products exist just to...

[rokzy]

...sell Memory Sticks.

it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't keep updating the specs so you can't use new high-capacity sticks in previous-generation electronics.

Compatibility

[BigZaphod]

"about how PS2 will be backwards compatible with PS2"

Boy, I hope they are compatible! I'd hate to buy a PS2 and find myself with a suddenly obsolete PS2 when the PS2 comes out a week later or something. That'd suck.

What doesn't it do?

[alvinrod]

A TiVo style peripheral will enable TV programmes to be saved on to the optional mini hard-disk.

So it plays PS, PS2, and PS3 games, can play Blu-ray movies if they ever come into frutation, can display 2 HD outputs, used to serve as a router (functionality removed), supposedly it will run Linux out of the box, and other impressive features.

Unfortunately, it doesn't take old PS and PS2 memory cards (I found it annoying that you could save PS data onto a PS2 card, but this just really sucks). Dance pads and other old PS2 periphels won't work on it (I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat that won't work with a PS3). Next thing we know, it won't even play games.

Is anyone else disappointed that the PS3 is becoming less and less of a game machine and turning more and more in to an all-in-wonder-box? I recall when Sony talked about how MS was basically releasing a PC with the Xbox, and now it seems the tables have turned. Some part of me honestly hopes that Nintendo and MS kick the crap out of Sony this round.

Re:What doesn't it do?

[oGMo]

Unfortunately, it doesn't take old PS and PS2 memory cards (I found it annoying that you could save PS data onto a PS2 card, but this just really sucks).

Yes, because it's so hard to transfer files to a Memory Stick Duo. I might even be able to do that with a $10 USB interface. (And you've been able to transfer PS1/PS2 savegames for ages.)

Dance pads and other old PS2 periphels won't work on it (I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat that won't work with a PS3).

Sure, because even though they already build a PS2->USB box for $13, building either a bluetooth-based box or just connecting your dance pad to the PS3 USB port will be impossible. After all, it's clearly in the best interests of Sony and Konami/Bemani to alienate all those users. That's why they're ensuring backward compatibility in the first place.

Next thing we know, it won't even play games.

Sure, dumbass.

Re:What doesn't it do?

[NanoGator]

"Is anyone else disappointed that the PS3 is becoming less and less of a game machine and turning more and more in to an all-in-wonder-box?"

It didn't really bother me until the rumored $465 price tag. Then I start thinking about things like "You know, I never got around to playing Metroid Prime..."

Then again, I think launch is a terrible time to buy a system. That's when it's at it's most expensive, most likely to break, and when the fewest games are launched.

Re:What doesn't it do?

[nunchux]

I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat that won't work with a PS3

Let me get this straight... Your brother is dancing like an idiot in front of the TV set, and the reason you're laughing at him is because his dance mat won't work with the next generation consoles?

Re:What doesn't it do?

[Weirdofreak]

I could be mistaken, but I thought Sony had been saying for a while that the PS3 was a supercomputer*. Here we go, although the link's been eaten:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/25/ 1758219&tid=233&tid=212

*for values of supercomputer made up on the spot

Great.

[bk_veggie]

So I get to buy some kooky, expensive third party device in order to transfer my final fantasy, xenosaga and street fighter data to this expensive memory stick?

DexDrive

[antifood]

The article mentioned that the DexDrive would be a possible solution to transfer game files. It's the first thing that came to my mind as well.

Re:DexDrive

[DreadPiratePizz]

That solution is unacceptable to many of us who do not own a Windows PC. The DexDrive does not have macintosh support, so I am out of luck.

It's also terribly inconvinient to force your customers to jump through hoops like that just to play old saved games. This is exactly what I didn;t want to see, and that's partial support for backward compatability. It's all or nothing, and if you don;t have it all, it's not worth doing.

Re:DexDrive

[antifood]

Well apparently you can use a DexDrive on your Mac. I don't think that Sony executives thought that using a relatively unknown peripheral would be a suitable substitute. I do think some Slashdot reader's may find the original link I supplied to be of use.

Re:DexDrive

[oGMo]

Oh pfft. So someone comes out with a USB addon for the PS3 that let you plug in your PS2/PS1 memory cards. $10-15 tops. Then you don't need a PC or Mac at all.

Sony's not "forcing" customers to "jump through hoops"; as someone else said if you've got old save games, your old console doesn't stop working when you get a PS3.

Sony gives you 2 consoles of backward compatibility, a ton of new features, upgrades to a more standard form of memory storage with far greater capacity and a lower price, and all everyone does is whine whine whine because they can't plug in their 12-year-old memory card. Typical.

The Rub, 10 years down the road....

[telstar]

I've got a great 36" Sony TV. Picture is beautiful. Nice HD display. Takes Sony memory sticks as the memory stick of choice ... but NOT the duo. Now, I don't really expect a TV to take ANY type of memory card, so it doesn't bother me that much ... but it was a brand new TV 2 years ago and it didn't support the Duo. The manual was even new enough to know that the Duo existed, but that it wasn't supported by my TV. Like I said, it doesn't bother me since I don't use memory sticks.

Now Sony has billed the Playstation3 as a 10-year device. It makes me wonder if they truly intend to stop the evolution of their memory stick line at the form factor of the Memory Stick Duo. What happens if 4 years down the road, they come up with a new format with a new form factor that's incompatible with the interface of the PS3? Is everyone that's 4 years into a 10 year PS3 investment screwed?

The ONLY reason Sony is obligating users to use the Memory Stick Duo as the storage media is that it allows them to recoup some of the loss they're taking on each machine sold. And while it may seem okay today ... "hey, it's their product ... they can do what they want ... right?" ... talk to me in 10 years, when a new storage medium has come out ... and your PS3 is still using a storage format you can only find used on eBay.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road....

[alvinrod]

Now Sony has billed the Playstation3 as a 10-year device.

They've also said things about how the PS2/PS3 would be 200 times more powerful than their last console.

If you believe them when they say it will have a 10 year life cycle, you should probably get your head examined. If anything, it seems that the lifespan of consoles is decreasing: (based on information from GameFAQs.

Nintendo: 7/83 - 11/90

Super Nintendo: 11/90 - 6/96

Nintendo 64: 6/96 - 9/01

GameCube: 9/01 - 8/06 (guess based on current information)

As you can see, the lifespan of consoles is decreasing as they become more advanced. The Xbox has only existed for roughly 4 years and it's already being replaced. People will still makes games for a system after a new one comes out, but most of the killer apps will be for the new platform.

I think what Sony meant to say when they threw out the 10 year figure is that it has technology in it that will finally come into wide acceptance and be standard in 10 years. 1080p TVs, good luck finding those today, but in 10 years I think a lot of people will have HD TVs capable of making full use of the PS3's graphical output abilities. Blu-ray discs won't be heavily used now since most people are satisfied with DVDs, but in 10 years it's possible that they will have replaced the DVD as the standard. There is no way, however, that the PS3 will last for 10 years. That's like saying if you purchased a top of the line computer right now that it would still be competitive 10 years down the road. It might handle Doom 3 just fine now, but what about Doom 5?

Essentially what we get is another bullshit figure pulled from the ass of Sony to get people to buy what they're selling. 10 is a nice round number and sounds impressive and somewhat believable after all the hype about the PS3 we've had thrown at us, but in 10 years I think we'll be looking at getting a nice new shiny PS5, which will replace our PS4, which 5 years before replaced the then almost pathetic PS3. Moore's law just won't allow something like the PS3 a 10 year life span.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road....

[oGMo]

If you believe them when they say it will have a 10 year life cycle, you should probably get your head examined.

I believe if you weren't a Nintendo fanboy and looked at the lifespan on the PS1, you'd see it survived a decade. The PS2 has an easy 3 years left in it, which puts it close, and I wouldn't be suprised to see more.

Nintendo: 7/83 - 11/90
Super Nintendo: 11/90 - 6/96
Nintendo 64: 6/96 - 9/01
GameCube: 9/01 - 8/06 (guess based on current information)

As you can see, the lifespan of consoles is decreasing as they become more advanced.

Because clearly, there are no consoles besides Nintendo consoles. Don't get me wrong: I grew up on Nintendo and love them like anyone else. But this decline could also easily be attributed to Nintendo's production of fewer and fewer games, their focus on the Gameboy, or any number of factors. Look beyond Nintendo and we don't see a decline at all.

Re:This won't be a problem at all.

[Gr33nNight]

Tell that to my mother who enjoys playing Harvest Moon.

Suicide

[SewersOfRivendell]

Seems like Sony and MS are both playing "Let's see who can screw up the next console generation more!" This game may backfire if Nintendo's hardware beats expectations.

Memory Sticks - not that bad

[Master Of Ninja]

I have to disagree with people here. The Memory Sticks are not that bad. OK its a different standard to SD, but SD is equally proprietory. The MS and MSD actually work fairly well if you buy Sony equipment so it is quite interchangeable. In response to another poster the Duos should work with normal MS ports with the adaptor that comes with them.

The SD standard in itself if maybe a bit better as it does come slightly cheaper and is supported by more manufacturers. But the deriviatives are a joke - the miniSD and the b*stardised offsrpring the TransFlash. Especially for mobile phones it makes buying this haphazard as there is no guarantee that a standard will be in operation in the near future, especially with added 'convenience' of Nokia's reduced MMC.

In this way Sony's MS and MSD (with the increasing concentration on the Duo) seem more sane. It just works across the product lines esp with the PSP and the PS3 coming out. I'm sure someone will make an adaptor to convert the old cards anyway (the PS2 one being essentially a different form factor memory stick).

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to

[mwvdlee]

When Sony released the first MS format, we already had CompactFlash and Secure Digital, both of which were, and still are, supperior to the MS format, never have had any specs changed and even this day come in faster packages with larger storage. They didn't need to breach the 128MB limit, because they didn't have that limit.

The reason you give for Sony updating the specs, to break the 128MB limit, is exactly the reason MS is a crappy standard; if they designed the thing in a decent way to begin with, they would never have needed to update the specs.

Seems like all things abreviated to "MS" suck ;)