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Is It Wrong to Love Microsoft?

vd writes "Given most comments on Slashdot, it would appear that anyone with even a slight knowledge of computers hates Microsoft. An article on CoolTechZone, though, argues that not everyone should dismiss Microsoft outright. According to Varun Dubey, Linux is over-rated, Macs aren't worthy and Windows deserves respect and some love. From the article: 'What has Microsoft given us? It has given us Windows, sure, it was buggy earlier and a lot of things didn't work like they were supposed to (plug and play springs to mind) but it was a pioneering effort. No one was even close to the ease of use that Windows offered. Sure, Mac OS was a lot prettier but then it cost the moon and the stars along with both your arms and legs.'"

11 of 1,643 comments (clear)

  1. Freak by dtfinch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "most of the people developing Linux probably sit at night writing up malicious code for windows!"

    This guy really must not like open source developers.

  2. I'm confused... by kwatz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why is this in apple.slashdot.org?

  3. What else has Microsoft meant to us... by It+doesn't+come+easy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Illegally destroyed competition in the OS space.
    Suppressed or destroyed competition in the app space.
    Dictated an artificial (e.g. unnecessarily expensive) software replacement cycle.
    Empowered unscrupulous businesses to spy on your every web surfing move.

    I hear people say that things aren't so bad with the current state of desktop computing. After all, Windows rarely crashes anymore and you can surf the web, play games, read email, etc. What else is there? To be quite frank, a lot. It is difficult to quantify all of the software development that hasn't been done because of Microsoft's oppressive control over the desktop. I estimate we are at least three generations of software development behind because most businesses would not risk competing with Microsoft. Just 5 years ago I can remember reading stories about companies that decided NOT to compete in a particular area because they feared Microsoft would crush them. Forget the companies put out of business or the people who had to find a new job. The loss of advancement in software technique is incalculable.

    --
    The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
    1. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 5, Interesting
      But when the actions they take are not illegal (which clearly doesn't cover them all, but the vast majority of them), is it the company or the law that's at fault?

      Most of the actions they use are illegal, but they either weasel off, hire better lawyers, or just pay off defendants. They're well known for entering negotiations to license technology, and if the talks break down, they just steal it.

      Also, everything they've been able to do since the early-mid 90's has been due to their illegal exploitation of monopoly, such as strongarming OEMs not to include Netscape or WordPerfect.

      So I'd say it's not the laws that are at fault, but a legal system that never envisioned a defendant strong and willful enough to flaunt the law because the penalties are simply part of the cost of maintaining a monopoly.

  4. Yes, wrong to love Microsoft by ReformedExCon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes, absolutely it is wrong to love Microsoft. For that matter, it is wrong to love any company that you are not directly a part of, and even then loving a company is fraught with pitfalls. Love is something that must be reciprocated in order to have any meaning. It is a shame that English has evolved to the point where we "love" or "hate" things that we enjoy or dislike.

    Microsoft has done a lot of things, some good, some bad, some neither. Businesses are just that way. Is Microsoft worthy of respect? Sure. They have done something that other computer companies only dream of: they own several of the markets that they are part of. But does that mean we should hate them? Does it mean we should love them? Of course not.

    People who feel strong emotions towards companies that they have very little part in (having neither worked there nor been part of the founding and building of it) are misdirecting their emotions. Save your love for your neighbor, don't waste it on Microsoft.

    --
    Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
  5. Small flaw in the argument... by sphealey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One small flaw in the argument: Microsoft wasn't always hated. During the 1980-1990 time period (approximately), they were seen as one of the "good guys". In particular, during the movement of PCs into large corporations in the 1984-1990 period, Microsoft was viewed by many as a strong supporter of personally-directed computing resources against the tyranny of the Data Processing Department. While their technology was never the best, it had its good points (MS-DOS 3.3; even Windows 3.1), and as Steve Gibson has pointed out its openness allowed a huge industry of improvements to spring up, which formed the basis for today's software industry.

    So, my question to Microsoft fans is, what happened between 1990 and 2000 that turned Microsoft from hero to goat? You be the judge.

    sPh

  6. That's not a meaningful article by jiushao · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I don't dislike Microsoft nearly as much as most of Slashdot does (as evidenced by some of my earlier posts), but this article has no meaningful content and is as such pointless.

    Personally I started respecting Microsoft a whole lot more when the developers started blogging on a large scale. Few people can possibly have missed Raymond Chen's excellent blog Old New Thing which really explains a lot of the things that Slashdot would consider "cruft" and "archaic design" in Windows. For those who missed it I would recommend the post about file-system tunneling. On one hand it is a downright revolting workaround to make old apps work and behave as one would expect, but on the other hand one has to respect the obviously huge amounts of thought and effort that went into it.

    To some part this also goes back to a bit of a reaction against Slashdot and similar places obsession with hating Microsoft. They are a lot better than they were in say, 97. With NT under the hood Windows is an a lot more agreeable operating system. Slashdot may scoff at Microsofts security effort, but in all honesty it seems to be going fairly well form my perspective. Updates are quicker and more plentiful (also most vulnerabilities seem to be announced because the fix showed up on WindowsUpdate than because an exploit was found). Recompiling large part of the system with automatic buffer checks (where possible, this is C/C++ we are talking about) has helped the severity of a lot of exploits. The new low-rights IE seems to be a good approach to insulate any problems further (borrowed from UNIX daemons granted, but the OS-level security infrastructure is sound, and applying it in a useful way to desktop applications really is a new thing), check out the IE teams blog for information about that work by the way: IEBlog. They may not have had the best place to start from, but it does seem to be going the right way (I mean, hey, just getting a working software firewall in place was a huge leap forward), which I would think everyone can agree is a good thing.

    Another popular blog is Michael Kaplan's blog dealing with internationalization stuff like character encoding and input support.

    Overall I could link blogs for quite a while, pretty much all major Microsoft products have developers blogging. It can be interesting to have a read, they are often well written, have a nice technical content and give a bit more understanding for how things work (and may help cure some of the more irrational hate for Microsoft :).

  7. Pioneers Get the arrows by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Pioneers get the Arrows, Settlers get the Land. Microsoft has always been a settler not a pioneer. Now one can lightly praise them for having to make a half dozen bioses, sound cards, video cards, keyboard types all work within their system. This is not a great feat these days. But back when, yeah it was an accomplishment.


    A good accomplisment? Probably not. Yeah it let in some innovation but not much. Mainly it sowed confusion and prevented the establishment of standards that would have moved the industry along faster. Where it did establish standards it mainly were undesirable ones. Witness all the legacy crap like parallel ports, old fashioned serial ports, and Bioses. How long did it take just to get something sensible like USB to be implemented?



    On the other hand apple was a pioneer, though not always the inventor of PC methods. First (working practical) use of dynamic memory. First widepread use of memory mapped video (yes we have gone back to graphics cards but for anyone who used CGA you now what I mean), first integration of post script, First affordable Graphical user interface, first affordable mouse system, cut and paste between applications, Firewire, first consumer freindly unix desktop. first extensible files system (HFS+), metadata in file system, long liberal file names, Application oriented message passing scripting language (apple script). Self discovering local networks (first appletalk, now bonjour) If we include NeXT then we can include an OS based on Object oriented programming, Display postscript, First use of optical drives...,

    Pioneering, but not settling. Not always inventing but perfrecting. They drove innovation by adopting it early and creating needs for it. Look at the first affordable desktop publishing. That required a Gui, and the ability to edit graphics as objects, and thus a mouse.

    Microsoft...hmmm what can we say... they did settle the land and run on cheap hardware. Of course Cheap is why it was also so shitty. Macs were all configured at a high level. You didnlt need a pile of add on cards or figure out the interrupts and ports the card conflicts created. When you did need cards they were autoconfigured by the OS. macs had true plug and play from the day the mac II came out. Windows never really mastered plug and play till the PXI bus.

    Linux on the other hand plays to a different market. Wheras macs were at the maximally configured end of the spectrum. linux allowed you to diassemble everything and configure it exactly how you wanted. Not a shrink wrapped solution like widows that tried to do it for you and consequently invented horrors like the registrtry, incompatible DLLs, and resource conflicts. Instead Linux is a tinkerer's toychest. Of course that's why it comes in third for desktop and ease of use. But it's also starting to become an innovator in software ideas as more tinkerers get linked together.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  8. What has Microsoft given us? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1) the illegal leveraging of a monopoly that has stifled innovation.

    2) the lowering of expectations for the reliability of computers.

  9. Why the change? by NickFortune · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Lots of things. Win95 is where I presonally mark the change/ it was a marketing lead rollout that persuaded lots of people to shell out money for an OS that would not run well on their current machines, and that even if it did, their current apps would run slower. Up until that point I'd though MS was about the best solution to the problem.


    W95 was also the debut of the Registry with all it's attendant obfuscations and encrypted entries. No more of this human readable .ini file malarkey. We'll have a binary format that can only be read using our software.


    Then there were the help files. I taught myself how to use Win3.11 to quite a high level purely from the bundled helpfiles. W95 seemed a lot less helpful. However I think the nadair was reached with WinME when I was tryng to troubleshoot my wife's PC and suddenly though "all these halp files are, are a lit of reason's why the problem is not MS's fault".


    Then there was Stacker - where MS bough out just enough of the company to squash the product. Everyone has their favourite MS unfair competition story - that was the one that made me realise these guys were not playng fair


    And there was the chap on USENET - demon.local - who posted a message subject "Bastards! Bastards! Bastards!". Apparently he'd found a bug in 95, reported it and was told he'd be given 30 days free credit while they looked into it. He was outraged - he spent his own valuable time tracking down a bug for Microsoft to improve their product, and in return they threatened to charge him money if they couldn't replicate it in 30 days. How to alienate your techically adept userbase in one easy lesson...


    The final straw for me, was finding that getting a copy of office for my dad's new XP machine doubled the cost of the computer (which we'd already bought) and that we'd need a new printer and scanner. None of which was advertised, of course.


    These are some of the landmarks on the journey from me as a MS enthusiast c.1990 to a Linux evangelist in 2005. It's not that I woke up one day and thought "linux looks cool", MS had to work long and hard before I started to think of them as the enemy.


    There's a line, arguably a subtle one, between wrtiting novice-friendly software and treating your users as idiots. Further on in the same directin there's another one markign the start of treating the user with contempt. As far as I'm concerned, MS crossed first one, then the other, and have not so much as looked over their shoulder the whole time...

    --
    Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
  10. Re:There is a price for what you want by arbitraryaardvark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Did they develop the GUI?
    No Xerox did. And no Apple didn't develop it.

    Edison didn't invent the lightbulb. It had been demonstrated in the lab 20 years earlier. Edison made some improvements, mass-marketed and mass-produced lightbulbs, and built the infrastructure to bring them to the home and office.
    Ford didn't invent the automobile. Ford made some improvements, used massproduction to bring the cost down to make it affordable for the average home and office.
    The original article is a rant, with spelling and grammar errors and some weak arguments and claims.
    But it has a valid central point.
    Bill Gates is (approximately) the world's richest man because he, as much as anyone, made computers accessible and affordable to the average home and office.
    We can whine that Edison screwed Tesla, and electric cars were better than model A's, and Sarnof screwed Farnsworth, and Sinatra killed Kennedy, and so forth, but I'm happy to be living in a world where a billion people are online.
    We don't know how things would have played out if there had been no microsoft.
    The open source movement at some point should give us something better than windows, but it's still not here yet. Apple is still making Volvos in a Ford world, catering to a niche market which can afford a better product at a higher price.
      Windows has been the electric light bulb and the model A that made the new technology accessible to the masses.