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Internet and Merchandising Good For Indie Media

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the sure-can't-hurt dept.

Snotty Pippen writes "A new study online (and its long) compares online revenue streams with brick and mortar ones for converting content into cash, and uses web comics as a basis of comparison. Metrist Partners note the study agrees with looks at indie music, that indicate the web is the place for distribution and that merchandising is where the real money is. T Campbell, who writes a bunch of web comics and edits Graphic Smash, bemoans it didn't come out before he wrote the chapter on money for his forthcoming book on web comics."

53 comments

  1. It's also good for off-beat publications by HunbunFunland · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lot's of sites are nice daily's but how well would they do in print? Take, for example, daily kos and OHUK.

    1. Re:It's also good for off-beat publications by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Imagine being able to print your own newspaper as you walk out of the door for your daily commute.

      You are just about to spend 45 minutes sat on a train or bus whilst you go to work, your daily read contains all the latest feeds from your respected news sites, your daily comics, a roundup of the sport and also the emails and project outlines you need for the day ahead.

      You could arrive in work refreshed, updated entertained and alert.

      I would love to have this capability.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    2. Re:It's also good for off-beat publications by Al+Dimond · · Score: 1

      Do you have a printer attached to your computer?

      Well, you might have to have a nice laser printer if you wanted to print off 45 minutes' worth of reading material every day... but with a bit of scripting (similar to the kind of scripting that allows those personalized Google pages with news stories from multiple sources and such... webcomics are particularly easy because they're in the same format every day) you could easily compile such a thing.

      Your paper bill might run kind of high, though... perhaps if you have a laptop you could have a script download and compile the same information onto the laptop and read it from there.

    3. Re:It's also good for off-beat publications by CableModemSniper · · Score: 1

      RSS reader with File > Print? And a staple or paper clip. ok, you could make it a little more interesting than that, (have a cron job automatically print it every morning or whatever, formatting, etc.) but you already do have the capability.

      --
      Why not fork?
    4. Re:It's also good for off-beat publications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would someone please kill this OHUK dipshit!!! Take a look at this to see how much of a whore this loser is. Almost all of his comments have nothing to do with the stories they're attached to.

    5. Re:It's also good for off-beat publications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed.

      Everyone please go to this site and sign the petition there.

  2. Indie Music by kevin_conaway · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know of an online site (similar to cdbaby) that really pushes "indie music" and allows you to sample new stuff?

    1. Re:Indie Music by saddino · · Score: 4, Informative

      Check out Not Lame for a site with a similar indie vibe, though more geared towards indie/alt power pop.

      CD Baby, by the way, is a great way for indie and unsigned bands to get online music service distribution as well as CD sales. The tracks off my band's CD are just about on every online music store (iTunes, Rhapsody, etc.) thanks to CD Baby. Did I mention how cool CD Baby is? :-)

    2. Re:Indie Music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Pitchfork
      Insound
      Epitonic

      One of the cool things that Pitchfork has been able to do is translate their on-line success into off-line events as well. We attended the Intonation Music Festival a few weeks ago and it was great. It's encouraging to see other entrepreneurs start with a reasonable investment on the web instead of going broke the traditional way.

      The internet has definitely leveled the playing field for the small guy.

    3. Re:Indie Music by Zagar · · Score: 1

      Magnatune is an open music record label. They have a good selection of artists and you get to choose how much the artist deserves for his work. You can download in many different formats (WAV, MP3, OGG, FLAC and AAC) and license the music for commercial work.

      --
      YAFIRL (Yet another Free iPods referral link)
    4. Re:Indie Music by fossa · · Score: 1

      I really like CD Baby. I've used their "you might also like..." and many preview tracks to try out a few albums that I otherwise would not have found.

      It would be cool if CD Baby preview tracks were available in iRate Radio ("radio" that gives you new songs based on your ratings of old songs), which I've just started using (again) (it seems to take a long time to get good tracks).

    5. Re:Indie Music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Python? Scrabble? PyScrabble.
      Trademark? Violation? Trademark violation.
    6. Re:Indie Music by KnightMB · · Score: 1

      Right Here http://ind-music.com/ They offer "any" indie music artist or band the ability to sell their music, give away free music, and to sample music before you buy. The artist get 10 times as much per sale as the "main stream" artist and the site even pushes open source as it's run completely on OSS servers, apps, and web servers. They are truly trail blazers in the indie online music distribution stuff. So go check it out and support your indie bands!

    7. Re:Indie Music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GarageBand has a wide selection and tons of samples.

  3. Obligatory Emusic reference by Groucho · · Score: 1

    Only this time it's on topic!

    They just got Sufjan Stevens in which is nice. Been looking forward to that. The Alarm, The Hold Steady, Antony and the Johnsons, Arcade Fire, The Microphones, The Pixies, at 25 cents a track, high quality Lame VBR encodings - what are you waiting for?

  4. Not suprising by retinaburn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am not sure why this is news. It never really affected me in a big way until I started listening to the cbc radio3 podcast. It's a weekly podcast that features indie (for the most part) canadian music, featuring songs off of newmusiccanada. I have bought three cds from india artists in the last week, and each was about 10 bucks Canadian. It's a great way to bring together an indie audience and indie artists.

  5. Webcomics means e-dollars! by spargos · · Score: 3, Funny

    I love it when webcomics are potrayed as cash cows.

    After several years of trying to generate revenue from my online cartooning, my running total is $5.07.

    That's US$5.07 mind you ... woohoo!

    1. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by Cheerio+Boy · · Score: 1

      After several years of trying to generate revenue from my online cartooning, my running total is $5.07.

      Indeed. If it were so lucrative you wouldn't see webcomic artists asking for donations all the time. (Yes, I donate to some.)

      I'm sure that more than a few good cartoonists were crushed when they tried to make a living on the web. Not being a cartoonist though I wouldn't know how many for sure.

      --

      "Bah!" - Dogbert
    2. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by Unknown+Lamer · · Score: 1

      It would help if your web comic didn't suck.

      --

      HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
    3. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by spargos · · Score: 1

      It would help if your web comic didn't suck.
      *bottom lip wobbles, runs to teacher*

      That's as may be, but I was eluding to the over-dramatised nature of these articles.

    4. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Perhaps your problem is promotion.. For instance, You could've put a more obvious shameless plug at the bottom of your post. Instead all you've done is put your site in the homepage element of your profile.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    5. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by fermion · · Score: 1
      Everything tends to be overdramatized. Be it doctors, or engineers, or writers, or atheletes. Some will make it very big, some, even with talent and drive, will not make it.

      So the issue is not that 90% of those who try is going are going to fail. The issue is if the new model will result in more opportunity and overall quality. WRT the web, the barrier to publishing is reduced, which means that more people have the opportunity to publish. This also means tha the market becomes more crowded, revenue becomes more diluted, and the traditional barriers that kept unprofitable content out of the market place are bypasssed.

      It takes more than just putting product out to make money. If you want to generate revenue off art, then the art has to be treated as a revenue generating product, and promoted as such.

      On a final note, the comic has not generated money for you, but how much have you spent on equipment, hosting, and tools. Often these articles are written with the intent to generate excitement so would be entrepenuers go out and buy stuff, thus increasing sales of the firms that service the targeted sector.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    6. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by Skim123 · · Score: 1

      Ah, you just missed the boat. See, the thing now is podcasts. If you start a popular podcast, the sky's the limit as far as revenue's concerned. One day there will be folks who make six figures doing nothing but podcasting. GET ON BOARD NOW WHILE YOU CAN! LIMITED INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY!

      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    7. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by KillerDeathRobot · · Score: 1

      If it were so lucrative you wouldn't see webcomic artists asking for donations all the time. (Yes, I donate to some.)

      I don't see how that really makes sense, since donations would be part of the revenue stream.

      --
      Thinkin' Lincoln - a web comic of presidential proportions
    8. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      If people would let some of the used up comics in the newpaper end there would be room for new people. I'm talking about crap like Family Circus (now drawn by father and son team, dad's almost dead), Peanuts (rerun of classics, creator is dead), Garfield (how many times is lasagna funny). I can barely even enjoy the comics in the sunday paper anymore. I just skim out the few that aren't worthless drivel.

      --
      Cheap storage VM.
    9. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by Cheerio+Boy · · Score: 1

      I don't see how that really makes sense, since donations would be part of the revenue stream.

      Yes but if the revenue stream were so strong why would they have to "hawk" their wares so much. There seems to be a constant need to "drive" the sales of webcomic related material. Some really spectacular comics just need to leave the donate button up there.

      I would think that if the revenue stream for webcomics was so strong they would just have a donate button up there and forget about doign anything bur drawing webcomics.

      --

      "Bah!" - Dogbert
    10. Re:Webcomics means e-dollars! by TCampbell1000 · · Score: 1

      Well, *I* like the comic. But having a good comic is just the first step in a long process that involves many other skills and a little luck. There's more room at the top, but it's a steep mountain to climb. Like music, moviemaking and publishing, webcomics am a successful business for a select few, and for many others, just a lovely hobby.

  6. I know what this calls for. by blair1q · · Score: 1

    Someone needs to send the submitter the brochure for a good online remedial-English school...

    I'm still not sure what half of that posting was about. ...sheesh...

    1. Re:I know what this calls for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BAD GRAMMAR! Snotty Pippen writes "A new study online (and its long) compares online revenue streams with brick and mortar ones for converting content into cash, and uses web comics as a basis of comparison. Metrist Partners note the study agrees with looks at indie music, that indicate the web is the place for distribution and that merchandising is where the real money is . T Campbell, who writes a bunch of web comics and edits Graphic Smash, bemoans it didn't come out before he wrote the chapter on money for his forthcoming book on web comics."

    2. Re:I know what this calls for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      A new study online (and its long)

      And its long ...what?

      (And remember, this is a family site!)

    3. Re:I know what this calls for. by Cheerio+Boy · · Score: 1

      Someone needs to send the submitter the brochure for a good online remedial-English school...

      I'm still not sure what half of that posting was about. ...sheesh...

      It's obvious what's happened here - Slashdot has outsourced both it's submitters and editors overseas to non-English speaking countries.

      Bad joke thinking am I but normal become it has...

      --

      "Bah!" - Dogbert
    4. Re:I know what this calls for. by Omnieiunium · · Score: 1

      I had to re-read that bit a few times to make sense of it. I have not even made it past the first sentance.

  7. why is this news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every independent band that's toured the country has come to the realization that merch is where the money is, not your cut of the door or record sales. This isn't news by any stretch.

    1. Re:why is this news by justforaday · · Score: 1

      Hopefully most will realize this before they hit the road. That way they're prepared to actually sell stuff out there. I can't count how many times I've seen bands and wanted to buy a cd or shirt only to be told that they only brought one box with them on the tour and those sold out after 3 shows...

      --
      I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  8. Just Do it (Yourself...) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Forrester Research put out a similar study a few years ago. The article declares big media were going to lose a lot of money as musicians and authors figured out how to sell their stuff on the web. I can attest to this.

    I work for an independent content company that sells a lot of stuff on our website. The company we use(warning: freaking bizarre website) to help us ship stuff, take orders, and all of that crap does the same for hundreds of others and appear to be doing really well.

    The truth is, if you CAN sell on the Internet, it's almost not worth the trouble to mess with mass market channels. You've got a bunch of giant companies used to strongarming little guys with things like
    • Mandatory buybacks (i.e. retailers who send your book back)
    • Draconian Vendor Compliance terms (ie. ship us something with the wrong barcode and we fine you $500 a pop)
    • Disfavorable Payment terms (i.e. Net 90 anyone?)
    • Absolutely crap royalties for first timers
    • Absolutely NO interest in you or your brand (i.e. you are a supplier to them, your art is no different than the paper it's printed on, they're out for the cheapest terms and have a line of a thousand others behind you waiting for a chance. They think nothing about throwing you out. You're just a vendor. That's it.
    Listen, if you have something that works, even on a small scale, focus on making it better, funnier, smarter, cooler. Forget trying to break into mass media/major retailers. Homestar Runner doesn't need some TV network when their store pays the rent. Neither do a lot of other folks.

    Our company has tried time and again to work with the big players, but in the end, something just didn't work out. Maybe someday these giant entities will wake up and smell what they've been shovelling... until then, JUST DO IT YOURSELF!
  9. Success of web comics by Synth3t1c · · Score: 1

    I haven't seen any web comic creators getting movie deals!

    1. Re:Success of web comics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but how cool would it be if Penny Arcade were made into a movie?

    2. Re:Success of web comics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't seen any web comic creators getting movie deals!

      Least I Could Do had a TV show in the works some time back, but now I can't see anything on the site about it, so maybe it was cancelled.

    3. Re:Success of web comics by nunchux · · Score: 1

      So? A movie deal isn't every cartoonist's goal. Many great comics (especially comic strips) would make terrible movies. There are other ways to profit-- like merchandise and publishing, even selling original art.

      BTW there are quite a few cartoonists who work in print-- typically "alternative weeklies" like the New York Press, or with indie comics publishers like Fantagraphics-- but also make their strips and archives available on the web. I wouldn't call them "webcomics" in the Penny Arcade mold but these guys have seen that distributing their work over the intraweb as well as whatever publishing opportunities come along, is a good way of reaching fans... Some of my favorites (catering to my weird tastes, of course:)

      Perry Bible Fellowship
      http://cheston.com/pbf/archive.html
      Maakies
      http://www.maakies.com/
      Underworld
      http://www.kazunderworld.com/
      Migraine Boy
      http://www.gregfiering.com/migraineboy/index.html
      Red Meat
      http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/

  10. Artists Web Sites by yintercept · · Score: 1

    Just go to artists web sites. There's thousands of them. Many give a selection of downloadable music. The web challenges the assumption that we have to have a big intermediary media companies that determine what music is in and what music is not.

  11. Comic-Nation by bonoTi · · Score: 1

    [Shameless Plug]Track all your favorite web comic updates with http://comic-nation.com/.[/Shameless Plug] :D

    1. Re:Comic-Nation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would not use this service. The owners have shown themselves to be aggressive and inconsiderate, refusing to remove comics who don't want to "participate" and scraping sites every 15 minutes. Now they're spamming slashdot.

  12. One more time... by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1
    A new study online (and its long) I'm only gonna sing this one more time:

    Ohhhhhhh... If you want it to be possessive, it's just "ITS." But, if it's supposed to be a contraction then it's "I-T-apostrophe-S,"

    scalawag

    --
    UTF-8: There and Back Again
  13. A Long shot. by Jack+Taylor · · Score: 2, Funny

    A new study online (and its long) compares online revenue streams with brick and mortar ones

    Well, I hope the long in question is happy about the situation. Did it have any input into the study? Or would the odds be far too long on an abstract concept being capable of market analysis?

    ...sorry ;)

    --
    One good turn - gets all the covers.
  14. It's just the long tail at work here by Skim123 · · Score: 2, Informative
    A short number of publications (be it art, music, novels, journalism, etc.) are 'hits.' The vast, vast, vast majority are non-hits. But with the Internet's capability of having virtually unlimited shelf space, along with the ability to have 'recommendations' from like-minded folks, the revenue generated by long tail items typically exceeds the revenue generated by the concentraded number of 'hits.'

    This concept is explored in much greater detail in Chris Anderson's blog, The Long Tail, and his accompanying article, also named The Long Tail.

    --

    I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

  15. In other news by starX · · Score: 1

    Cats chase string and the sun is hot.

  16. achewood.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    achewood.com is the best online comic strip.

  17. Be Polite by ed__ · · Score: 1

    Remember to be polite to your friendly webcomics artists and grab the whole page or whatever. Oftentimes, they support their comics with ad revenue. See this metafilter thread for some comments on scraping/aggregating webcomics.

  18. Not to mention.. by SocialEngineer · · Score: 1

    ..the great boon for indie artists such as myself, who don't charge for our music, and give it away on our own websites (now, if I could only draw some fanbase with some actual cash to donate so I could cover bandwidth costs) :)

    If you are interested in hearing my stuff, you'll have to hit my website network (see my user profile website) and find the sites yourself.. Please, PLEASE share my music over P2P if you aren't willing to donate cash to help cover bandwidth :P I can only afford about 2gb worth of downloads a day.

    Honestly though, my fanbase has gotten much bigger since the RIAA started really pushing the music industry into the current era. People are actually considering indie artists as real musicians, and free legal music tends to be an attractive incentive (except for the fact that some don't actually save my music to their harddrive.. they just come back and steal my bandwidth every time they want to listen to something :P).

    --
    "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson