Slashdot Mirror


Hybrid Vehicle Conversion Services?

OverkillTASF asks: "My '94 I6 Jeep Grand Cherokee has once again eaten through a transmission... at 105k miles. For one reason or another, this has led me to the following question: Are there any companies/individuals out there who do hybrid vehicle conversions? I'd like to retrofit my Barbie Jeep with the necessary equipment to eek out 5 more MPG, be a little more environmentally friendly, but still allow me to get where I need to go out here in the sticks? Do such after-market conversion services exist?"

29 of 151 comments (clear)

  1. in short... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    no.

  2. No problemo by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Make it lighter. There is all sorts of stuff built into the frame for "safety" and "roll-over protection" that you'll probably never need. Remove a few hundred pounds of this dead-weight (also go on a diet yourself), and watch your gas mileage go up, up, up.

    1. Re:No problemo by kingkade · · Score: 2, Funny

      And those airbag assemblies are just chock full of heavy cases and those dense airgs themselves. Get rid of these cumbersome, life-saving material and you should be good to go.

    2. Re:No problemo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      In the words of Al Bundy, "I got him to cut another $100 off the price of the car. Why pay for seatbelts when you don't have brakes?"

  3. Nice thought by kingkade · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's noble to want to do something for the environment, but I have to mention (and you probably already have realized this) such a conversion would cost more than you'd be able to make up for with the slightly better mileage in less than (at least) a few years. Look at Civic hybrids: they cost about $4k more than their gasoline counterparts.

    IMO, I think your money would be *much* better spent on a healthy down payment on one of those more economic, eco-friendly vehicles thna retro-fitting an older, gas-guzzler SUV.

    1. Re:Nice thought by Halfbaked+Plan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the vehicle is already paid for, it only costs him $4000 (your figure) to do the conversion. That's the only cost and he presumably gets a new engine and drive train for that money. Which would be a good deal.

      --
      resigned
  4. Hydrogen? by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is moving slightly off on a tangent from the question, but it seems worth saying: United Nuclear are currently working on a hydrogen conversion kit for various cars, and have apparently clocked 50,000 successful miles on their prototypes. Probably the kind of thing to take with a pinch of salt, and the estimated cost is $7-10k, but it will come with a solar powered hydrogen generator, so might be worthwhile.

    1. Re:Hydrogen? by spectral · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I saw this before, I read the comments before suggesting it. I don't know if this company is legit or not, but the idea seems interesting.

      I think this is the closest you'll get to a conversion kit. Hybrid gas-electric vehicles require a vastly different transmission, onboard computer, massive batteries, and likely a lot of engine work to make it stop and start when the vehicle is not in motion. In short, look at around 12k+ if it's even possible and the parts are widely available.. which they aren't.

    2. Re:Hydrogen? by arminw · · Score: 2, Informative

      .....the means to really cut our dependence on oil.....

      Hydrogen is not an energy SOURCE, only an energy carrier. The only practical ways of making hydrogen is to use electricity or extraction from some hydocarbon. The efficiency of doing this conversion must be compared to the effciency of refining and then burning gasoline or diesel in a vehicle. Also, the very expensive new infrastructure needed for handling hydrogen must be amortized by including it in its price. You best bet right now is to buy a hybrid for day to day transportation and use your SUV only when it's heavy duty capability is really needed.

      --
      All theory is gray
  5. it's possible, but... by zogger · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...you'll need to do a lot of the DIY, perhaps just in the configuring. You can always sub out the actual work. You'll be retrofitting the entire drive train, plus adding space for batteries as well if you want any sort of at least minimum range before you are forced to use the fueled engine. What you are contemplating is a self propelled generator basically, with you along for the ride. That is in essence what a hybrid is.

    Here is a generic link to get you going

    http://www.evworld.com/

    As another poster pointed out, this is a fabulous new industry idea, some places are doing it, but it's still in the mom and pop shop stage most places, sort of like the original mom and pop whitebox shops back in the haydays of making decent money at it.

    pure electric conversion kits and links

    http://www.electroauto.com/

    Now what I think might be a useful idea, one already built at ACPropulsion, is to make the vehicle pure electric, and have the generator part that makes it a hybrid be in a tow behind trailer. Short range, run pure electric, extended range, tow the trailer.

    read about that and more info here, these guys know their stuff

    http://www.acpropulsion.com/ACP_FAQs/FAQ_products.

    good luck and do a blog on it, would like to see the project as it unfolds

  6. 40 mile commute? Go Electric! by RingDev · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's say you work over your truck to get 28mpg. You drive 40miles round trip every day to work. You driver to work 250 times a year. And for the moment, we'll put gas at $3.00.

    That means every year you spend $1072 on gas. $1429 per year when gas hit's $4

    Compared to a full electric. A (relatively) cheap conversion to a 9" DC motor and lead acid battery pack can easily pull a 40 mile range. And at about $8-12k it's about the same cost as a few year old decent used car. A DC system like this should run at about .4kWh per mile (AC can get as low as .18kWh)

    If we use the same standards (250 40mile round trips @ .4kWh/mile) and put electric at $0.10 (my last bill was $0.85/kWh). That means you're spending $400 a year on fuel. Now, with the 'el-cheapo' 6c deep cycle lead acid battery packs, you're only going to get 3-5 years out of them. So if we figure in blowing $1200 every 3 years, you're looking at $800/year in fuel. Even if electric jumps to $0.13 (a 33% jump like the gas jump $3 to $4) You're still only looking at $920/year

    28mpg Gas @ $3/gal = $1072
    .4kWh Electric @ $0.10/kWh = $800
    28mpg Gas @ $4/gal = $1429
    .4kWh Electric @ $0.13/kWh = $920


    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    1. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by RingDev · · Score: 3, Interesting

      12k @ 3% is only $360/year. and that's not likely to grow.

      Gas is going to hit 4 dollars, and at that rate you will be saving over $500 a year.

      My situation is slightly different though. I drive a 2 seat compact sports car for my commute (20mpg). My wife is looking to swap out her aging compact suv with a Golf TDI (45mpg Diesel). I'm looking to convert my 2 seater to electric. Drops my yearly fuel cost from $1700+ to $800. And we would still have a high efficiency vehicle that doesn't depend on crude oil.

      Which brings up the next point. At some point in time, there will not be enough gas to go arround. US consumption is still growing, although not as rapidly as it had been. But China and India are exploading into their industrial revolutions and their oil consumption is skyrocketing. Going Electric saves you from the future where gas prices will surge, lines will form, and shortages will exist. Going diesel you can atleast run bio-diesel from veggie oil or soy beans.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    2. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by nmos · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unfortunately much of our electricity comes from natural gas which is likely to become more expensive for basically the same reasons as gasoline so expect electricity prices to go up as well.

    3. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by RingDev · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually most of the electricity in the US comes from Coal. North America also has the worlds larges coal deposites in the world. So while my heating bill is likely going to be over $300/month this winter, I don't expect my electricity to raise more then a peny or so per kWh.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    4. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by arminw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ....You're still only looking at $920/year ....

      I just got a Toyota Prius hybrid which gets consistently at least 50mpg. For 10K miles and $3 gas that comes to $600. For $4 gas it would be $800 and the nice thing is that it'll go over 500 miles on a full tank. It is a really nice car for general running around in, but I'll still keep our old Ford diesel pickup for hauling things.

      --
      All theory is gray
    5. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by RingDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Interesting, I had heard that their 45mpg sticker rating was "generous". You are the first person I've seen claim over 45mpg though. But for a trade off, you'll still have to replace your battery pack, and if it goes out at 3 years, just after the warenty, you're still looking at a $1200 bill, which up's your yearly fuel costs to $1000. Which at $3/gal is only a hair under a 30mpg car. Also, a new Prius cost what, $22k+ msrp? VS a $10k conversion kit. And that electric will be cheaper from the start in fuel costs. There is a finite amount of oil on this planet, and we, not our children or grand children but you and I will see the end of cheap oil in our life times. Commuter electrics, hydrogen and bio-diesels will be the future.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    6. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by RingDev · · Score: 2, Informative

      LOL, that was funny!

      You want performance? Check out the T-Zero, 0-60 in 3.68 seconds. Tops out at 90 due to a 1 gear tranny.

      And enjoy your ethanol, see how well it performs over the winter. And guess how much it costs to farm enough acrage of corn to generate a gallon of ethanol. Ethanol can offset fuel consumption, but it can not replace it. If you're going to go bio fuel, soy-diesel is a much better choice. It doesn't require nitrogen fertalizers, and it can run in more efficient, lessor poluting diesel engins also with out a conversion.

      Next time you want to point the troll finger, look up some peer reviewed documents. I can search Google for proof that Bush is a freaking space alien, doesn't make it true.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    7. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by RingDev · · Score: 2, Informative

      Correct, just going out and doing a conversion is not economical. But, if you drive an older car, and are looking to trade it in and buy a newer (used) better fuel efficiency vehicle for $10k (~$200/month), it would be cheaper in the long run to sink the $10k into a conversion kit.

      Similar to integrated solar roofing. You'll never make your money back if you tear off a perfectly good roof and install solar shingles. But if you are going to replace your roof anyways, using solar shingles will cost less in the long run.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    8. Re:40 mile commute? Go Electric! by RingDev · · Score: 2, Informative

      "I will argue your fertilizer point though. The fertilizer for soybeans isn't any better/worse than that used for corn. Soy is more widely used in the organic market, but in commercial use it isn't that far ahead."

      Soy actually creates it's own nitrogen, is more hearty, uses less water, and all round mops the floor up with corn. A lot of corn farmers will alternate crops (for many reason) but soy is a good choice because it adds nitrogen to the ground with out fertalizer. Also, if Brazil had the farming technology the US does, they could provide enough soy in one year to feed the entire world for 6 years.

      The T-Zero (google: TZero AC Propulsion) has 5 prototypes, the first 3 used cheaper batteries, had a 0-60 time of 4.1 seconds and a range of 50-100 miles depending on the driver. The last 2 prototypes had the more expencive Lith Ion batteries. It hit the 3.67 0-60 and had a range of up to 300 miles. All of them could be charged overnight. The tranny is actually a geo-metro with all of the gears removed. They then put a 9:1 reducer gear in and hook the motor up. The AC motor can spin at 9k rpms no problem. Unfortunaltly the first T-Zero concepts sold for ~$125k and the last two went for a cool $1/4 mill. But you can buy the full AC system (minus batteries and tranny) for $25k. A cheap battery pack (FLA) goes for $800-1200, Li Ion packs go for about $8000-12000 though. But if you want to sink $50k+ into a high end performance machine that will out accelerate anything you see in the US, it's a great option. Especially when you compare gas milage. A full 300mile range charge will cost you pennies on the dollar of 300 miles in a C06 corvette.

      -Rick

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  7. BioDiesel? by hahiss · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why not try biodiesel? If you're thinking about doing a serious conversion project anyway, I suspect that it might be easier to swap in a diesel engine and convert that to biodiesel than to go hybrid.

    --
    "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
  8. some real MPG improvement tips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The easy option - remove weight:

    * roofrack
    * rear + passenger seats - if you're always driving solo.
    * the spare tire - got a cell phone? got someone who can give you a ride to get your spare if you get a flat? then don't keep it on your vehicle.
    * carpeting - this can add up.
    * air conditioner - if summers aren't too hot where you live.
    * radio + speakers - again, the weight adds up.
    * trash that you've littered the interior of your car with, vacuum the dirt out while you're at it and wipe down the dashboard - removing interior dirt won't help mileage, but it'll make you feel better about driving your car.
    * anything else you have in, on or under the car that can be removed but is not essential for your safety or for the vehicle to go, remove it!

    Switch to:

    * road tires (or less extreme offroad tires) correctly inflated with lightweight wheels (note that cheap & simple stamped steel can be lighter than alloys depending on the alloy's construction)
    * synthetic engine oil - it'll keep your engine cleaner and running smoother than regular oil.
    * higher-flow (and lower resistance) air and oil filters like those from K&N.
    * consider trying one of those "engine cleaner" formulas I've seen in the automotive shop (they're typically a gasoline or oil additive that supposedly helps un-gum the inside of your engine - although you may not see the results for 1 or 2 gas/oil cycles) - although I have no idea if they're snake oil or if they can actually help.

    Modify your behaviour:

    * drive no faster than 55, try to use the brakes as little as possible by keeping an above-average distance from the vehicle in front and driving smoothly.
    * don't use cruise control if you can help it (it keeps constant speed not constant throttle and can't account for, say, wanting to keep excess momentum right before going up a hill).
    * don't open the windows - SUV bricks are an aerodynamic nightmare, which is only made worse if you open holes in the side.
    * if you've got a manual transmission, make sure you drive in the highest gear suitable for the situation, with the lowest engine RPMs and lightest throttle touch possible. When cruising you should be loping along in high gear and low RPM with almost no throttle! Drive smooth, smooth, smooth!

    And that's about all I know on squeezing higher mileage out of a vehicle without being a mechanic!

  9. TDI! by frn123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Buy a used small turbodiesel engine for it.

    1.9L diesel will have more than enough oomph (unless you're suffering from penis envy) and will move you around with insane mpg.

    Cheaper than hybrid. Cleaner than hybrid.

    1. Re:TDI! by nmos · · Score: 3, Informative

      First, many diesel cars get considerably better than 35mpg. If most of your driving is on the highway you'll get similar milage out of a hybrid as a diesel but in stop & go traffic the hybrid will win.

      Second, diesels tend to be cleaner than gasoline engines in terms of greenhouse gasses but dirtier in terms of particulates.

    2. Re:TDI! by thebigmacd · · Score: 2, Funny
      For the record, he's interested in an SUV because he's out in the country. A TDI isn't exactly SUV-esque.
      Neither is Barbie...
    3. Re:TDI! by Grab · · Score: 4, Informative

      Cheaper is *the* major factor. Hybrids are way expensive right now.

      Cleaner isn't really in there though. Diesels are bad for particulates, and currently there isn't anything forcing people to sort it (although future standards will do).

      The ultimate clean engine though would be a diesel-electric hybrid, because the diesel emissions happen at low-efficiency load sites. Run the engine at max efficiency, and you're sorted - this is why trains have been diesel-electric for years, because even with the conversion inefficiencies, the efficiency of diesel at its best point is mindblowing. But the American market won't buy diesel, sadly, due to the disastrous diesels rushed out in the 70s and 80s. Ho hum.

      Grab.

  10. Re:Diesel pickup by woobieman29 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Not to mention the fact that pick-up trucks in general are about the worst configuration available for an off-road vehicle. The weight distribution is the main problem - all of the weight in a pickup truck is over the front wheels, which creates serious issues with traction on the back tires. Sure, you can add weight to the bed of the truck to help keep the tires planted, but then you have the disadvantage of more weight.

    Give me an older Toyota Landcruiser (1970's) or a Jeep TJ/YJ/CJ instead, thankyouverymuch.

    --
    \/\/oobie
  11. Re:Are you serious? by Blkdeath · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If you are fixated on going hybrid with an SUV, why not buy a brand new hybrid Highlander or Lexus? You'll spend as much and get the same marginal gas mileage increase, but you'll also get that new-car smell.

    Or you could look at the Ford Escape Hybrid and enjoy upwards of 50% fuel savings in a brand-new 4x2 or 4x4 small SUV.

    To put things into perspective; the Escape Hybrid has $0 fuel tax, whereas the Highlander carries a $75 tax. Why? The Highlander uses a large 6 cylinder engine and, as you said, only experiences marginal fuel economy improvements.

    The Lexus is a nice SUV - but it comes at a Lexus price. A person driving a 12 year old Jeep Cherokee isn't likely to run to a dealer and drop $62,200 CDN (base MSRP) on a new SUV. Even the Highlander comes in at $44,205 while the Escape Hybrid starts at a reasonable $33,495.

    The Escape Hybrid uses an Atkinson Cycle variant of their popular 2.3L Duratec engine which, in and of itself is a highly efficient, near zero emission engine. Combined with a 70KW electric motor it produces the same power as the V6 Escape.

    The One Tank Challenge demonstrated that on a 62L gas tank it's possible to drive Toronto city traffic for 972 KMs getting better than 5.9L/100KM (or roughly 50MPG).

    --
    BD Phone Home!

    Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

  12. Consider PHEV conversion instead by Laven · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://calcars.org/

    Conversion to regular hybrid probably will not be worth it when you consider the cost/benefit ratio. However a conversion to PHEV (plugin hybrid electric vehicle) may be well worth the effort. The above site describes this new type of car that allows you to go 30-40 miles in your daily commute off of electricity charged batteries. If you drive longer than that commute, then it behaves like a regular hybrid burning gasoline.

    Their earlier conversions were modifying existing non-hybrid cars for PHEV capability, which would be similar to what you are looking for. Despite the benefit of PHEV, it may turn out to be too expensive to be worth it, but you should still look into it.

  13. Austin EV by blindseer · · Score: 2, Informative

    When I lived in Texas I came across a group of electric vehicle enthusiasts. Check out the website for Austin Area Electric Auto Association. They give some pointers on conversions, give some suppliers of parts, and show off what people in the area have done.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.