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Intrusion Prevention and Active Response

nazarijo writes "The security world has been taken by storm by intrusion prevention system (IPS) products in the past couple of years. After all, a typical intrusion detection system (IDS) only alerts you that something malicious may have happened, and an IPS reacts to it and can prevent the attack. Action in this scenario is obviously preferred to a passive bystander. Still, the IPS solution space is confusing to many." Read on for the rest of Nazario's review of a book designed to erase that confusion. Intrusion Prevention and Active Response: Deploying Network and Host IPS author Michael Rash, Angela D. Orebaugh, Graham Clark, Becky Pinkard, and Jake Babbin pages 424 publisher Syngress rating 7 reviewer Jose Nazario ISBN 193226647X summary An overview of host- and network-based IPS solutions

The June, 2003, report from Gartner on the death of IDS set off a lot of security industry activity. Everyone was busy trying to either defend the IDS product space, reposition their products as IPS devices, or trying to dismiss the Gartner position. Many security engineers had to suddenly evaluate the IPS products on the market and make purchase and deployment decisions, as well. However, there's been a lack of understanding of this marketspace for some time. If you've been curious about this technology, you may want to look at Intrusion Prevention and Active Response: Deploying Network and Host IPS to help you understand these solutions.

It would have been relatively easy to write a book that simply covered one facet of the IPS product space, such as network IPS systems. However, the authors have chosen to try and write a comprehensive overview of the tools currently available for both the network and the host, as well as ways in which they can be attacked and the scenarios they work in. While the book focuses on open source tools, including the Snort IPS extensions, the techniques apply to closed source, commercial tools as well.

In general I found Intrusion Prevention to be a decent first book on the subject, although a bit unfocused in its delivery. At times it seems to try and bite off more than it can chew, or go off on a tangent for too long (such as the many pages of nmap options), but in general the book does a fair job of delivering its promise. Through it you'll get a good overview of many of the technologies present in the IPS marketspace and what they offer. If you're up to it, you'll even learn a few ways to test the tools and weed out the snake oil vendors.

The book is heavy on actual system output and configuration examples. I like the explicit packet captures and snort rules, I think they go a long way towards illustrating the premise of an IPS system. As is somewhat common with Syngress press books, the formatting is a bit off at times (sometimes it's too wide or slips over the page boundary at the wrong time), but if you can work past that you're rewarded with a useful example.

For host-based IPS solutions, the book covers a number of approaches that aren't always evident as IPS techniques. Various stack protection mechanisms, including LD_PRELOAD techniques like Libsafe, GCC modifications such as StackGuard, and kernel modifications like LIDS, PaX, RBAC and GrSecurity are all described.

By now you can see that the book is pretty Linux and open source centric. This isn't too bad at all, since the basic functionality is present in most of the commercial tools, as well. These can include inline network data modification and reactions or application integrity checking tools. The open source versions, while they sometimes have fewer features, are excellent representatives of this technology.

The book really comes together in chapter 8, 'Deploying Open Source IPS Solutions.' Several vulnerable systems are set up, deployed in a fictitious network, and protected through a variety of IPS solutions which work together to create a layered security model. If the network can detect the attack, it's dropped or modified to remove the offending bits. If the malicious data gets through to the host, the host-level IPS tools remediate the problem. All in all a nice example chapter.

The discussion on how to evade IPS devices was a bit lacking, unfortunately. It seems squeezed in, and doesn't have the same level of detail as other chapters on similar topics. Detailed descriptions of the layer 3, 4 and application layer obfuscation techniques would have been useful to help explain this complex topic.

Before you begin thinking that the authors are entirely gung-ho on IPS technologies, they spend a long time discussing how they can be fooled and how they are fundamentally prone to false positives. This tempered stance is valuable, and they recommend that you take a limited set of functionality from your IDS system and make it reactive in your IPS.

There are only a couple of books that cover IPS technologies to any significant degree, and this appears to be the only one solely devoted to discussing IPS approaches for both the host and network. To that end, the authors have done a pretty good job of introducing the reader to what an IPS can give them, how to evaluate it, and what to expect in the real world. While the book itself has some production and layout problems, the material is worthwhile and will give the reader much-needed advice.

You can purchase Intrusion Prevention and Active Response: Deploying Network and Host IPS from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

88 comments

  1. I'm sorry... by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ...but when you (or the authors) say "solution", do you mean:

    program? identity token? software? shelf? algorithm? application? office suite? server hardware? server software? virus scanner? product? network? method? word processor? network protocol? scheduling software? email client? vendor? invention? operating system? windows manager? website? web application? authoring software? network client? web browser? API? ABI? encoding standard? bug tracking software? revision control system? wiki? contact manager?

    (Yep, stolen shamelessly from an earlier journal entry.)

    1. Re:I'm sorry... by CDMA_Demo · · Score: 1

      An IBM Consultant could tell you better what a "solution" entails.

    2. Re:I'm sorry... by databyss · · Score: 1

      solution generally means "bullshit".

      --
      Hmmm witty sig or funny sig? Maybe elitest techy sig!
    3. Re:I'm sorry... by Bogtha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Solution" means "whatever is capable of solving the problem". So in the context of "Still, the IPS solution space is confusing to many.", it means "choosing between all the different methods of detecting and responding to intrusions is confusing to many".

      Yeah, I know that "solution" is an over-used buzzword. But that doesn't mean all uses of it are nonsensical. Solution is a vague term because it's a vague concept. In some contexts, it could be a library, in others it could be a platform.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    4. Re:I'm sorry... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      It's really much more sophisticated than all that.

      A solution is 'bullshit that we want to sell you'.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    5. Re:I'm sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vendors use the word "solution" because that's precisely what their customer is looking for: a solution. Your typical CSO doesn't give a shit about what kind of software it is running, or what kind of protocol it is using, or any other technical details like that. In 99% of the case, a single solution will cover many very differents technologies and approach anyway. For example, if I want to buy IPS solutions for my network, I'm going to need the actual devices, the consoles to monitor and manage them, the database to log all their alerts, the support/update contract, etc. All these components are primordial if you want to end up with something more than shelfware.

      That's why it is called solution.

    6. Re:I'm sorry... by BoldAndBusted · · Score: 1

      And in still others, it could be a Supreme Court decision.

    7. Re:I'm sorry... by Y2 · · Score: 1
      "Solution" means "whatever is capable of solving the problem".

      No, solution is a word spoken only by the salesman (and perhaps the most brainwashed of his customers) and it means "the thing I have to sell right now."

      I like to give vendors the buzzword challenge: they pick a buzzword from a hat and if they speak it during their pitch, out the door they go. Favorites: solution, technology, and enterprise.

      --
      "But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
    8. Re:I'm sorry... by secolactico · · Score: 1

      An IBM Consultant could tell you better what a "solution" entails.

      That's one of the funniest sites I've seen in recent memory. I think I'm gonna change my title to "Vision Guidance Leader", and stiff Huh? Corp on the royalties.

      --
      No sig
    9. Re:I'm sorry... by bobcote · · Score: 1

      "Space" is an overused buzzword too. Does it mean market?, Field?, Profession?. Using the word "space" after certain nouns and adjectives makes the non-techie feel techie.

  2. write-up says it all by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like the submittor said, IDSs will inform you when something that may be bad has happened. IPSs will block traffic which may be bad. All of these systems have false positives. All of them will eventually block something really important that shouldn't be blocked. And all will eventually lead you to be fired because of that reason. And none of them will detect an intelligent, targeted attack.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:write-up says it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your solution is to sit back and do nothing and be sure that you'll not only be attacked by "intelligent and targeted" persons but also by every script kiddie and worm on the planet? Great plan!

      A properly designed IPS with good signatures (i.e. not Snort signatures) will be effective and will largely not interrupt any network traffic. Putting in an IPS is a hell of a lot better idea than doing nothing at all. If anything, it will probably make you look like a hero far more often than not.

    2. Re:write-up says it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm, get back to real life mate !

      Who is today able to target a real attack performed by a really skilled intruder ?
      Maybe 5% of us will be able to avoid 95% of skilled attempts.
      Remember 95% of the world will not even think it could have happened.

      In that approach, IPS definetly gives security a chance, as long as everyone knows no one never ever has a look at its Site Protector damn' GUI.

      Don't forget that not everyone is running an anti virus software, has windows security patches up to date, nor a personnal firewall up&running.

      On that approach, IPS is worth a try.

      Indie

    3. Re:write-up says it all by randm.ca · · Score: 0

      People won't congratulate you when it works. But when it doesn't work, you can be sure shit will hit the fan.

    4. Re:write-up says it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit hits the fan a lot harder when your entire network is overrun with a worm that could have been stopped. I'll risk some network downtime at a single-point than having thousands of workstations compromised and need cleaning up.

    5. Re:write-up says it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poorly implemented/configured IPS systems are bad news -- as are any other poorly implemented/configured systems.

      Recently, a major university near me implemented an IPS, and it proceeded to block their upstream provider/BGP peers, thus cutting them off from all other higher education research institutions & the internet. Simply a configuration oversight.

      Fortunately for the people involved, this was on a research network during the summer months -- in the corporate sector, where big revenue is involved, that kind of mistake just might get you canned.

    6. Re:write-up says it all by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      IPSs will block traffic which may be bad. All of these systems have false positives. All of them will eventually block something really important that shouldn't be blocked. And all will eventually lead you to be fired because of that reason. And none of them will detect an intelligent, targeted attack.

      Bzzzzzt! Wrong! Thanks for playing. There are indeed IPS systems that will detect intelligent, targeted attacks. They work by knowing what talks to what on your network and finding anomalous behavior. Sure, they come up with false positives. If someone starts a new server on your network and you don't account for it, a good IPS will notice. That is their job. The right IPS keeps humans in the loop most of the time. It does not just block all the traffic it thinks is out of place, it tells you the traffic is occurring and leaves it up to you to decide if that traffic needs to be stopped.

      Automated blocking also has it's place. That place is dealing with a sudden DoS, worm, or other attack that is catastrophic to your network. It is infinitely preferable to get a call at 6AM that says, "we have a huge worm infection. The network is still up, but it is a little slow. The office in New York is quarantined and needs to be cleaned up before we can bring them back online. Right now only their mission critical servers are running and the four new employees workstations are shut down too." Compare that to, "we got hit by a worm and the whole network is down including all of our mission critical servers and e-commerce site." Automated blocking is fine for dealing with an emergency or mitigating the effects of a sudden attack. Sure if you tell you IPS to automatically block any anomalous traffic you might get canned, but then you'd deserve it wouldn't you?

      IPS's are not a cure-all, but they are certainly useful and just because you don't know how to use them does not mean they are useless. They won't find every attack, but they will find and stop the majority if properly administrated.

    7. Re:write-up says it all by ssuppe · · Score: 1

      While everything you say is true, I submit that it is not a full view of the picture. I've been studying IPS for over a year now for a government study that has recently been given the go ahead for a large scale pilot program.

      Modern IPS do more than Snort does, which is more or less signature detection (please, I'm aware of the protocol anomaly stuff Snort does, but let's be honest with ourselves and say that it is limited in scope). IPS today have the concept of a "Vulnerability Filter" or "Virtual Patch" which actually understands the context of the vulnerability it is detecting, and as such is able to detect/prevent attacks with a level of granularity that is beyond simple pattern matching.

      The ability to understand application protocols (Layer 7 especially) is something that evades Snort and past IPS solutions.

      Admittedly, IPS is not perfect, but this is something to think about.

      TINAPE (This is not a product endorsement), but I'd recommend http://www.tippingpoint.com/ as a good place to get literature on this!

    8. Re:write-up says it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I agree totally. When the usual internet crowd discuss stuff like IPS they're actually thinking about their home networks or some 20 person lan that has a nasty on it. Sure. Fine.

      I've done a few years of security ops at ISP/F500-enterprise level.

      IPSs *deny access to services* based on some random metric. ("Oops! Let's tune that some more." really doesn't cut it in a production environment). We're not talking about your boss' print job setting off a security alert. That's just a bit of hassle. We're talking about proprietary device X that uses some brain damaged protocol Y to poll neighbours on a monthly basis for NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER and subsequently gets blacklisted and shut off from the network even though it provides a service critical to processing transactions from Important Multi-Million-$$$ Third-Party B2B partner number 87. Guess whose ass is on the line when that happens? And how many real attacks is any of these things going to protect you against? Well, let's see. Anyone capable of perfoming a breach that deep is going to laugh and laugh at the idea of being caught by some IPS product (which generally use algorithms and signature similar if not identical to most IDSs).

      I usually fire up IDS to check for stuff I expect to find (it's good for that) or keep it running to look for stuff that *really* shouldn't be there (scream on that, fine).

      Oh, that doesn't mean you shouldn't harden your hosts. You should, that's a given. And you should trigger alerts on situations you can lock. But most IPS vendors are just there to sell you snake oil. And it'll cost you.

    9. Re:write-up says it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a real job, and then repeat that statement.

  3. you're quite the spammer by carguy84 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wish IPS would block your posts.

    1. Re:you're quite the spammer by RealityMogul · · Score: 1

      As an IBM Consultant, I can provide a solution to block his posts for you. For just $80/hr I can begin immediately and have a solution in 6 months. If you choose to have the designed solution implemented, we can move into the development phase. We will easily be ready to put you solution into production no later that Q3 of 2008.

      Please call me at (800)IBM-RAPE if you're interested.

  4. Be careful with your wording... by akad0nric0 · · Score: 1

    Action in this scenario is obviously preferred

    This is not necessarily true, and I'm not just talking about honeynets/honeypots, either.

    --
    akad0nric0

    This sentence no verb.
    1. Re:Be careful with your wording... by Amouth · · Score: 1

      i agree i constatly watch the network traffic..

      one day i found someone trying to get into one of our jetdirect print servers.. i am not sure why or even if they knew it was a printserver - to be honest it looked like some script kiddy just trying things to breake a telnet server..

      i watched for a little bit, then went to close the port off and then realized.. what is the worst he can do . print something.. paper is cheep toner is cheep . mabey i will mail it to him if he manages to print something..

      nothing ever came of it.. i came in the next day and they were gone.. checked the logs.. they never managed to get to anything..

      if i had something that would have cut him off i never would have had that smile on my face

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    2. Re:Be careful with your wording... by bobbozzo · · Score: 1
      i watched for a little bit, then went to close the port off and then realized.. what is the worst he can do . print something.

      FYI, you're wrong about the worst case... it's been demonstrated that one can get an HP printer to send a copy of everything printed to a remote printer or other IP... Do you really want your TPS reports stolen?

      --
      Nothing to see here; Move along.
  5. My Intrusion Prevention System by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Funny

    infect the systems at work with my pwn trojans so other peeps' trojans get crowded out... like how your good intestinal bacteria keep out bad bacteria.

    1. Re:My Intrusion Prevention System by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

      so your work systems (well, if it wasn't a joke post) are kind of a real life corewar arena.

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    2. Re:My Intrusion Prevention System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Right now I'm protecting my computer by pouring yogurt into the ethernGHGFJFOEWJK#@ NO CARRIER

    3. Re:My Intrusion Prevention System by Federico2 · · Score: 1

      I'm protecting my computer by pouring yogurt into the ethernGHGFJFOEWJK#@ NO CARRIER

      I doubt that dropping an ethernet connection you'll receive a "NO CARRIER" message, but let's give a tr..................... Session timed out

    4. Re:My Intrusion Prevention System by jimmypw · · Score: 0

      But all those bacteria still dont protect you against worms.

  6. Action is almost always preferred... by squarooticus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...when there truly has been an intrusion, but the underlying system may be complex enough that the intrusion detection software can't be entirely sure something unauthorized is happening, and the consequences of preventing access might outweigh the risk of automatic action.

    The real problem with the IDS/IPS space is false positives, because they are a non-starter for many businesses, including mine.

    --
    [ home ]
    1. Re:Action is almost always preferred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did bother responding...now what?

  7. What do people think of Cisco's IPS/Firewall/Solut by G00F · · Score: 0

    Sort of on opic in a way, but what do people think of Cisco's IPS/Firewall/Solutions?

    I do read some bad things about them, but nothign that explains why (other than price) And most the good stuff is usually marketing.

    --
    The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
  8. My Girlfriend has a great IDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    which always somehow spits out the message "baby not now I'm sleeping"....

    1. Re:My Girlfriend has a great IDS by kesuki · · Score: 1

      so your sexbot has voice responses? cool.

    2. Re:My Girlfriend has a great IDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Girlfriend? *confused* This is Slashdot, right?

  9. IPS by j_kenpo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Prevention eventually fails

    Quit looking for the security silver bullet.

    1. Re:IPS by discogravy · · Score: 1

      the point is to help minimize your risks. depending on your thresholds for false positives and how many of those you get, an IDP is a fucking godsend. I personally know of two networks tied at the hip (legally, physically and contractually etc) but seperate in management and mission etc and the only real difference between them is that the one running a commercial IDP (e.g., not Snort; I know the company, and the products, but am avoiding mentioning them for the slashvertising BS) and the other isn't. The one that isn't has essentially been unable to get to the internet for more than 6 hours in a row in the last 10 days or so, and the one that does hasn't had a virus/trojan/worm moment of downtime. These are large networks with 10K+ users each that are very visible (e.g., lots of public IPs, fairly large local and international precesnse), that folks rely on. The one that's running the IDP may get some false positives and I know that it can be a complete pain to troubleshoot stuff like that, but if the options are a) troubleshoot a mostly working net and a few clients down and b) troubleshoot a mostly dark network and try to get thousands of folks, dozens of VLANs up and running and limiting virus spreading using nothing more than firewall rules and ACLs on routers and switches, I'll take option A any day of the week. Maybe your idea of fun is segregating your network into smaller chunks that you can then divide up amongst techs to do cleanups -- only to be screwed again the next time some jackass decides to bring in a laptop or his USB drive or a CDR full of mp3s and some programs he downloaded or whatever, but I've got better things to do with my time (like deal with the three users who're making false positives happen).

  10. This stuff can't cope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Those page-the-admin-in-his-sleep systems assume an intrusion is spread over minutes and can be dealt with like a cop intervening during a burglary.

    Next-gen intrusion will be scripted/automated to such a level that everything the hacker wanted to do will be done after 1 second.

    This stuff can't cope with that kind of attack. Only a secure system can.

  11. Put your network on autopilot? by Watchman_ds · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In a former life (large financial company), we looked closely at IPS as a possibility. The big concern was that IPS was based on IDS and it still had way too many false positives and false negatives.

    So hooking that stuff up to the "Emergency Shutoff" switch for even rarely used network services was a little scary. We had some events where we put in router rules by hand (block this traffic or that traffic), and they still broke applications we never dreamed of.

    In the end, we decided to funnel all of those types of actions through our 24x7 command center. The delay caused by human response time was worth the tradeoff for not killing our own network.

    --
    Sigs are for lusers. Hey! wait a second...
    1. Re:Put your network on autopilot? by foolish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's the thing about the modern IPSes though.

      You don't plug and pray. You install and interate as you learn the product. You don't turn the tool to IPS everything mode from the get go.

      You start out in IDS mode, monitoring for everything. Then you decide which of the types of alerts it is capturing properly, say worms in this instance.

      Then you flip the bit for IPS mode for those signatures or anolomies ONLY. And the traffic of that specific type gets blocked, not everything to or from the hosts. Specific traffic only.

      If you get reports of something getting blocked, you 'detune' it to IDS mode until you can figure out why it is triggering. Luckily you can get packet capture for most of the enterprise IPSes, so it is usually fairly easy to peg why something false-positived. Some even have an emergency 'flip to IDS mode only'.

      You iterate this process until you have a comfort level for the IPS and IDS balancing act. Sigs or types of traffic you're worried false positive too much? Keep them in IDS mode or feedback to the provider that you're getting too much noise! Pretty sure that something on Kazaa ports using Kazaa commands is probably Kazaa or a Kazaa worm? Use IPS to block that specific traffic.

      None of the enterprise network people I've talked to would enable to 'Big Red Button' automation script, though. Definitely have the SoC or NoC check the alert and then have them make routing changes. Otherwise, just let the IPS drop/reset the 'bad' traffic.

      The 'unknown application breakage' is definitely a problem, especially the closer to the data core you get. I would slowly enable things one at a time, and take a slow and steady approach. The last thing you want to do is break some 100M USD application because you set a sig to block!

      As other posters have commented, this does relatively little against a well prepared intruder, but it will hopefully clear off the bottom 90% of your incidents so that you can watch or react to things in a more focused manner. Also, some of the IPSes do check for common single intruder commands , like rm -rf /, su to root, etc.

    2. Re:Put your network on autopilot? by ThinkPositive · · Score: 1

      Conventional IDS/IPS products are mired in false positives because they attempt to enumerate attack traffic. You can't enumerate an infinite set. This is the negative model. The negative model is useful for detecting the attack that you know about but haven't completely patched for yet. This is a good place to deploy current IPS. To go beyond this, define the traffic that you DO expect to see, and derive attacks by what is left. This is the positive model. Real world detection systems never achieve good and actionable information until the positive model has been integrated into the negative model policy. That's why it takes so long to tune your IDS/IPS. The vendors who claim to give you a big red button to press haven't figured this out yet.

  12. DEEP PACKET INSPECTION AND APPLICATION SECURITY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is the best IPS in the world..

    http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/pa pers/a1-firewall/

    - thewalled

    1. Re:DEEP PACKET INSPECTION AND APPLICATION SECURITY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Outstanding!
      lol!

    2. Re:DEEP PACKET INSPECTION AND APPLICATION SECURITY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah. That one can cause too much packet loss.

  13. I defy you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I defy you to define IPS as anything other than a firewall, without using any buzzwords in the definition!

  14. "IPS" is just marketing by NaDrew · · Score: 1, Troll
    while ( fatass_ex-hacker_CEO ) {
      read_Gartner_reports()
      panic()
      fire_engineers()
      rename_products( latest_trend )
      }
    Still bitter, party of one.
    --
    Vista:XPSP2::ME:98SE
  15. Best Windows Firewall W/ IPS by Bladehawk69 · · Score: 1

    I don't have a spare PC to use as a linux firewall, so assuming windows what is the best firewall with IPS? Sygate has been bought out and Kerio's stopped developing their firewall. What firewall w/ IPS is left for windows thats decent?

    1. Re:Best Windows Firewall W/ IPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux.

  16. Re:What do people think of Cisco's IPS/Firewall/So by Amouth · · Score: 1

    a Cisco pix box is great - it (the cheep one) has two ether ports (some have more) on it packets go in both sides and it just collects them - have no idea what it does with them.. figured mabey they are trying to get enough to create their own black hole but not sure.

    --
    '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  17. Let me get back to you on that... by carguy84 · · Score: 1

    I got another guy on the line about some whitewalls...

    1. Re:Let me get back to you on that... by rco3 · · Score: 1

      Woohoo! First Major League reference I've seen on Slashdot! You, sir, get a prize!

      --

      Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
  18. Save $17! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Save yourself SEVENTEEN ($17) BUCKS by buying the book here: Intrusion Prevention and Active Response. And if you use the "secret" A9.com discount, you can save an extra 1.57%!

  19. NBAD will by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    IDS/IPS and other signature based systems are yesterday's news. NBAD is where it is at when it comes to detecting targetted attacks.

    1. Re:NBAD will by nacturation · · Score: 1

      NBAD?

      National Bank of Abu Dhabi?
      National Bass Association of the Deaf?

      Oh, wait... Network Behavior Anomaly Detection -- for those who didn't know.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    2. Re:NBAD will by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      I have one of these devices. It produces lots of nice, pretty graphs and SHIT TONS OF FALSE POSITIVES.

      NBAD=worthless for large networks. large networks are too big and too dynamic for any software to decide what is "normal"

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  20. $.02 by SeanLee · · Score: 1

    I've deployed both TippingPoint (now 3COM) and Lucid IPS and am quite happy with both.
    No false positives to date. Med.>Large company.

    --
    Working hard to put food on your family.
  21. Blessings by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    The Church of Cisco, most holy retainers of the sacred IOS, are pleased that you like they almost-so-holy PIX product. In the name of the IOS, the Ethernet Hub and the Resellers. Amen.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  22. Product Plug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I read the heading, I thought it was a review of the system that we installed last year from ForeScout called Active Response. This may sound like a product plug, but it is the only thing I have seen that ACTUALLY works.
    I work for a very large media company with offices all over the place. I used to know about worms before they would show up in the news because there was always some office in asia that would get it at night and it would spread over our network before morning. Because it was my job to disinfect everyone's computer, my life revolved around these things.
    I can tell you that I we haven't seen anything since we installed it.
    I know it works because I got hit by the zotob worm on that first Monday when I was at home (I blame my wife) and was kicked off the network as soon as I plugged in. My Symantec (up to date!) didn't catch it.
    From what I can tell, it uses all the unused addresses on the network as a honeynet. I would write a review myself if I knew more about it, but I can say that it works.

    1. Re:Product Plug by mschuyler · · Score: 2, Informative

      I second that. We installed Active Response as well. It does a very good job and its reporting is a real eye-opener to how often you are scanned (complete with world map showing origin of scans). We've been up for over ten years with 11 Class C's, so I know we're out there, but you will be absolutely AMAZED at how often someone is knocking at your door looking for a way in.

      In terms of "active," the way this thing works is by responding to port scans with false information. If that false information is subsequently used to attempt an intrusion, it has effectively 'taken the bait,' and is then blocked.

      Very cool system by some Israelis who take security seriously.

      --
      How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
  23. You've got problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    seriously, if you're allowing that kind of traffic in from the internet to your printers chances are you're allowing other stuff as well.

    If I were you I'd bone up on security basics.

  24. "Active" Response? by Hasai · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I was serving in the military, the term "active response" to an intrusion meant a half-dozen pissed-off MPs with automatic weapons.
     
    ....I'm not all-that sure the military doesn't have the right idea, either....

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

  25. Re:What do people think of Cisco's IPS/Firewall/So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I fight with 50+ Cisco IDS devices every day. Run far, far away.

    These devices are as dumb as they come with poor support, poor management control, buggy software. We steer customers away from active traffic blocking as it more often than not will block legimate traffic. To the customer it appears they have intermittent traffic failures as different support groups will be unaware of the blocking capabilities and chase their tails for hours.

    Proper profiling and signature tuning can only take it so far before you have to reply on the signatures provided by the vendor.

    Run away. :-)

  26. tcpdump and The Cube of Potential Doom by qualico · · Score: 1

    The best detection and prevention I have found to date is simply watching tcpdump and taking action manually.

    If you find watching lines of packet information less than thrilling, you could try out something like the Cube of Potential Doom.
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/net3d/

    Although, I'm surprised to see this project go stagnant.

  27. IPS is deliberately confusing marketoon jargon by rnews · · Score: 1

    A so-called "Intrusion Prevention System" is at heart and in practice, just a firewall.

    Amusingly, it's a firewall with a default open policy. Sure, it inspects the contents of packets instead of making its decisions based on address and port information alone, which is a good thing in itself. But then an IPS by default allows everything else.

    If you want the hell of signature-based anti-virus (signature lag all the way up to signature lack) as your primary network protection, by all means, ditch your real firewalls and shut down your IDSes in favor of the new buzz. Your attackers will thank you.

    1. Re:IPS is deliberately confusing marketoon jargon by happy_smile · · Score: 1

      I've just attended an IPS presentation by 3Com.. I don't see any difference what IPS does and common IDS. But imo, IPS is a kind of combination of firewall, anti virus, and anti spyware/mallware. Not really a great thing, but I like the marketing idea to introduce "the IPS".
      The very interesting part of the presentation was the lucky draw, with prize an Ipod shuffle. :)

  28. Intrusion Detection and Active Response? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got your's right here, buddy!

    Intrusion Detection: Tinkling glass.

    Active Response: Shotgun.

    Yup..I'd say my house is pretty damn near secure as I can make it, thanks.

  29. Properly designed systems don't need IPS by wsanders · · Score: 1

    If you're lucky, your application is good enough it doesn't need IPS. Used to have some BSD boxes just sitting on the internet, no firewall, running postfix and running BIND 8 with no recursion.

    Day after day these boxes were subjected to all kinds of indignitites, and BSD woud just laugh in their general direction. Their only vulnerability was to properly executed DDoS attacks, which, as previous posters have pointed out, most IDS/IPS products are hard to configure against without running the risk of, say, preventing the CEO from getting his precious email while he's vacationing in Abu Dhabi.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    1. Re:Properly designed systems don't need IPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Their only vulnerability was to properly executed >DDoS attacks, which, as previous posters have >pointed out, most IDS/IPS products are hard to >configure against without running the risk of, >say, preventing the CEO from getting his precious >email while he's vacationing in Abu Dhabi.

      That's exactly the problem we were facing. Think it is not possible? Check out the box by TopLayer.
      We have been using it for DDoS and it is by far the best on the market. They also have an IPS, which, in contrast to the majority of the vendors, they run in custom hardware (yes, it's darn fast)

  30. Re:What do people think of Cisco's IPS/Firewall/So by Y2 · · Score: 4, Funny
    I fight with 50+ Cisco IDS devices every day. Run far, far away.

    You fool! You weren't supposed to turn them on! You're supposed to just buy a few so you can check off the box on your plan. Looking at the output is highly counterproductive.

    --
    "But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
  31. IPS/IDS and firewall are the dumbest ideas.... by Dark+Coder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Marcus Ranum said it best: Six dumbest Ideas in Computing Security.

    Having worked on the 10Gbps IPS, I can tell you that this is becoming a rapidly dumb idea (along with firewall). My experience in signature writing was telling me that this is becoming an exercise in futility.

    If you can ascertain that your network-based application are secured (via code-review), none of these ancillary cash-burning network security add-on infrastructures would matter. A fool is soon parted with his money.

    Spending some time reviewing the application code may be more cost effective.

    Web Server? Go tinyHTTP. Fewer codes, less (or no) exploits.

    Simplify, simplify, simplify (K.I.S.S.)

    Sheesh.

    1. Re:IPS/IDS and firewall are the dumbest ideas.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marcus Ranum doesn't know what he's talking about. His company NFR has been in a slump and isn't going anywhere. You get companies like TippingPoint coming out and proving not only can IPS work, but makes IDS obsolete in the process.

      Signatures for IPS are different than that for IDS. You need to change your mindset and this will make the product successful. IPS naysayers have missed the boat. IPS is here to stay and works today. It's not an end-all solution, but it does solve a huge part of the problem today in network security.

    2. Re:IPS/IDS and firewall are the dumbest ideas.... by Gordo_1 · · Score: 1

      If you can ascertain that your network-based application are secured (via code-review)...

      Evidently, you've perused through hundreds of thousands of lines of Windows/Linux source code, because if you haven't, one might take your claim to be some kind of naive joke.

    3. Re:IPS/IDS and firewall are the dumbest ideas.... by Dark+Coder · · Score: 1

      IDS is dead... IPS will be dead.

      Mark my word.

      Disclaimer: And Marcus has left NFR at least three years ago and then arrived to this brilliant realization (so did I). He is an excellent engineer and technological guru --

      You... you're just an poorly informed anonymous coward (prol'y from 3COM or TPTI).

    4. Re:IPS/IDS and firewall are the dumbest ideas.... by Dark+Coder · · Score: 1

      How on earth did you guess that I actually perused all these codes? (snicker).

      Anyway, no joke on my part.

    5. Re:IPS/IDS and firewall are the dumbest ideas.... by Dark+Coder · · Score: 1

      I design 10Gbps IPS and a naysayer of IPS...

      Perhaps I see something you don't???

  32. more demands from broadcasters by AssaultMonkey · · Score: 0

    I recently called Rita Obey, the go between, as it were, for the individuals trying to set up the station and those 'in charge'. Apparently, those persons willing to set up a station requested multiple offices inside the dome and other supplies to broadcast their station (there must be a physical place to broadcast from ). These were not granted because, in her words, 'we dont have the resources to do this'. Its a good idea. I hope people figure out a way to make it work.

    --
    Until our children are no longer molded into castrated sheep democracy remains a fake and a danger. -A. S. Neill
  33. MPs? by ErikTheRed · · Score: 1
    When I was serving in the military, the term "active response" to an intrusion meant a half-dozen pissed-off MPs with automatic weapons.
    Members of Parlaiment with automatic weapons? (yes, I know what you mean, but mine has a funnier visual).
    --

    Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    1. Re:MPs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh you crazy British. MP for Military Police. Yes in Britian it is Members of Parlaiment. I do read BBC on the net so I do see the mis-understanding. Well back in history the Sargent-at-Arms did carry an weapon and now it is an representive mace.

  34. Re:What do people think of Cisco's IPS/Firewall/So by gpmidi · · Score: 1

    They usualy only track about 10% of traffic. They are also extreamly dificult to manage. Snort, Snort based, or Dragon IDSs are the only decent ones on the market. ~gp

  35. "Active response" is dangerous by Alex+Belits · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem with all those things is that they are only good for making HORRIBLY INSECURE BUT RELIABLE system into KINDA INSECURE AND NOT RELIABLE AT ALL.

    Think of it. Why should a system change its behavior when an attack is detected? Because the normal behavior is not secure enough? But then why should it change back when attack ends? Because the "secure" behavior can possibly include blocking something that should be available. There is no other possibility -- if there was, system would just run in a "secure" mode all the time, and there would be no need to sell a complex product to turn it on and off.

    But then whoever can trigger "secure" mode for any particular set of addresses (what usually can be done blindly), can do it deliberately and cause a massive DoS. But what if "IPS" is smart enough to detect a "blind" attack? Then it's better! The only way to distinguish between "blind" attack from a spoofed address and a real attack is by keeping track of all connections and packet history. Create a horribly confusing sequence of packets, and you have anti-IPS equivalent of SYN flood. And then when "IPS" box is out of its RAM, start a real attack. Because you know that IPS was built for a reason -- someone have left his system insecure.

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  36. Sourcefire and RNA by PGillingwater · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I've worked with IDS for more than 8 years, and Snort for at least 6 years. Currently, I recommend Sourcefire to my customers. Why? Well, Snort with commercial support is great, but it's not enough. Sourcefire however developed RNA, which does passive network protocol analysis, and builds a knowledge base of vulnerbilities and hosts -- and allows IDS rules to be tuned according to relevance. (Note that RNA doesn't help when it comes to IPS.)


    Having said that, I am generally against deploying any fully-automated IPS responses, due to the possibilities of false positives and potential for new attack vectors (i.e., a crafty attacker using the defenses against you.)


    Until expert systems are as smart as experienced IDS analysts, the best defense is a dedicated team of people who deploy early-warning systems, and who watch the network carefully, 24x7, aided by tools like RNA. If you're really serious about security, however, you will develop two teams: Read Team and Blue Team. Let one handle defense, the other run attacks, and let the games begin... and don't forget to cycle people between the teams!

    --
    Paul Gillingwater
    MBA, CISSP, CISM