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Another Round of HP Layoffs
geekroot's dad writes "AP News is reporting that Palo Alto, California-based Hewlett-Packard is 'fighting to stay competitive with formidable rivals like IBM and Dell' and is announcing 5,900 European job cuts "to safeguard the future" of the company. From the article: 'Michel Destot, the Socialist deputy mayor of the southern France city of Grenoble - where HP has one of its French plants - said the layoffs were "unacceptable" and demanded that HP managers also meet local politicians to discuss scaling back the job cuts.'" This round following the first cut back in July.
I'll spare folks a lot of work.
"Oh, those evil French socialists! First they won't help us invade Iraq and now they are interfering with our right to lay off their lazy asses! I'm going to run down to McDonald's right now and loudly order some FREEDOM FRIES so if there's any French people eating there they will know how ANGRY I am!"
From the article: 'Michel Destot, the Socialist deputy mayor of the southern France city of Grenoble - where HP has one of its French plants - said the layoffs were "unacceptable" and demanded that HP managers also meet local politicians to discuss scaling back the job cuts.'"
Good luck pal. HP is a big multinational and doing business in France with French employees is a royal pain in the butt (yes, I speak from experience, having spent 14 weeks at my company's French subsidiary last year).
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Carly has only been gone all of maybe five or six months and you are complaining already? Please, give the new CEO a bit more time to undo the mess...
Or to safeguard the top management body bonuses? =D To the guys complaining of the 'red' french... well, you should study their economic and political model. It is different, it has drawbacks, it has advantages. It is not perfect, just as the US' system is not perfect either.
Disclosure: I'm stupid
They are incredibly stupid if you are an employer with more than (I think) 50 employees.
As an employee on the other hand...
While they may not admit it, France is very much a socialist country.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Bad Earnings for Quarter -> ...
CEO Saves Money by Cutting Sales & Engineering ->
Better Earnings ->
Bonus for CEO ->
No New Products in Queue + Reduced Sales ->
Bad Earnings for Quarter ->
CEO Saves Money by Cutting Sales & Engineering ->
rinse, lather, repeat
Wow, even Jerry Lewis never said anything that funny...
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
In every company in trouble, everytime a change in the management happens, it seems to be customary for the new CEO/Chairman to layoff bunch of people.
Ofcourse, you need to lay off a bunch of hardworking people who had nothing do with mismanagement which led to the company's present status.
Why is it done? They have to come up with cash to pay the previous moron who drowned the company & also the overpriced present CEO & other management minions.
Idiotic, you say? You've much to learn about business, silly!
Oh no! The Socialist Deputy Mayor of a French city is making demands! What will we do now???
Seriously, HP sucks, we all know HP sucks, and this is yet another round of cuts in the death spiral. That said, if it were, say, Chirac ranting about HP that would be one thing. The folks at the top in a country can make things pretty difficult for you if they want - it's generally good to keep them appeased at least to some degree. But who on earth cares what some obscure Deputy Mayor thinks about anything other than the Mayor's lunch order? Why does every minor insignificant politician have to weigh in on this crap? Do they really think that their constituents believe they have influence over giant multinational corporations?
Even if this Destot fellow had some clout, HP's response would likely be "fine - how about we take all the jobs away, then... And move them to another country!"
I actually mean this - I hate pointless layoffs (and was the victim of one at a previous company), but I hate grandstanding local political hacks even more.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
I think you need to learn how to express yourself. If you keep holding all of your anger inside, it will simply result in increased stress and maybe a potential heart attack. In the future, maybe you should just say how you really feel about a situation....
That's not too high for a European country. Germany has hit much higher without breaking a sweat. The thing about the US's 6 percent unemployment being considered HUGE is that we have a much more fluid economy with much fewer social safety nets than they do. Whether you think it's a positive or a negative thing, it is generally harder to become destitute or unemployed once you have a job in a European economy, or at least that was my impression. On the other hand doing business is more cumbersome in a more highly regulated economy. It's always a trade.
I spoke to a Brit living in Germany for a while once, and he said, "Yeah, I pay taxes that are pretty high, but I don't have to pay for health care at all. What do you get for YOUR taxes in the states?" I had to agree- I don't get much other than frustration that I'm paying for a useless political circus and its associated pork barrel projects.
My little site.
unemployment in France is around 10%... get your facts straight.
carly trimmed lots of fat.
they gotta be cutting muscle by now, just to survive.
... hi bingo
The other bit about EU unemployment rates, is thta they measure UE differently than the US. We generally report the U3 numbers, while they report the equivalent of our U6 numbers.
Currently, the US U6 numbers are 8.9%
Suddenly, we look a lot more like Europe.
... hi bingo
The US "unemployment" numbers we're used to seeing are fiction. They've been cooked so many ways for so long that they now are a measure only of how many people the government wants to admit are willing to ask it for help this week. Which is why it's around 5-7% when it's reported. The real number that you're looking for is "employment market participation rate", or the percentage of people who can work (minus retired, disabled, children and a few prohibited others). That's currently around 65%, or 35% not participating. Realize that the people in addition to the 100% are the "prohibited" people I mentioned, all of whom still have to eat, who need someone's income to support them.
--
make install -not war
While they may not admit it, France is very much a socialist country.
You mean the workers own the means of production and distribution!?? That's amazing! I've been waiting to find a country like that.
Or do you mean they just have strong labor laws?
They were.
Having worked both in Europe, not France, and the US for many years I know I was more productive under a system that allowed me time to re-charge.
The US may have me in the office longer but I feel I actually do less work. I cannot even take time unpaid time off, which I would gladly do.
In Europe I felt everybody was on the same page. We go to work to provide ourselves with quality leisure time and a nice life style.
In the US it would seem you go to work because nothing else matters. Marriage, health, sanity etc etc are all less important than having a job.
Of course, if you look at the widening gap between the rich and everybody else in the US it would seem that no matter how hard you work you're financial status in life was set when you were born.
For the Americans who complain of the french 35 hour work week, and use it to explain the demise of the french economy and a host of associated profanities, I'd like to point out that Americans only do about 35 hours of work a week anyway.
Job surveys are pretty consistent: Americans waste at least an hour a day at work consciously fucking around on the internet, paying bills, etc.
So. Really, 5 hours is not that much time. The bigger problem is that all of Europe has high unemployment. It's a trade-off: less employment, lower inflation, higher benefits for their old, their sick, their poor. You're telling me you wouldn't pass up a bit of job security for full and free health care? It's not like us americans have job security anyway.
Besides, the ECB is committed to a wicked-low inflation target and that only means 1 thing: higher unemployment.
Yeah, I pay taxes that are pretty high, but I don't have to pay for health care at all
I've found that nothing in this life is truly free. A friend of mine has a mother that lives in Norway. She's on a 6-month waiting list for a necessary operation.
Sure, she doesn't have to pay for it. She just has to suffer with traumatic pain while she waits her turn.
"What do you get for YOUR taxes in the states?" I had to agree
Do you not use roads? Do you not use public transportation (which is subsidized by taxes)? Do you not use public water, public sewer, etc? Have you never called the police? I could go on forever. Your taxes are lower than the Europeans' taxes, and just because you don't get "free" healthcare doesn't mean you don't use governmental services. You use them every day.
I'm a big tall mofo.
Considering overall unemployment rates and economic performance as a whole, it sounds like the U.S. system wins out. Companies are very reluctant to hire people if it is overly difficult to fire them.
Face it, most US corporations treat employees and stockholders like serfs. Everything for upper management and to hell with everyone else. The sale of a couple of GulfStreams could keep thousands on the payroll.
see
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11542
And before people start yelling about Europe's high unemployment I would like to point out:
1) US unemployment rates only count actively registered unemployed. Once the unemployment runs out most people don't bother showing up to register anymore. In Europe they have 'the dole' for which you get paid to show up and so they record larger numbers of unemployed. In the US the official numbers are skewed.
2) Oh, and while on the dole you still get some minimum of health care.
3) Oh, and there are 1.9 million US citizens in prison in the US who are not counted as unemployed. Contrast that to China with about 1.4 million in prison (see this pdf for an eye opener http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r188.pdf a report developed by the UK government no less!). Did I mention China has about 3 times the US populations AND is a Communist regiem?
What they need to do is get rid of some overpriced C*Os and sell a couple of airplanes.
I hope the French stick it to them.
(no, no rant here, move along, nothing to see... )
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
The American system has higher "performance", but which system has the greater compassion? You make the call.
Today, or 100 years from today? America's system has allowed 4% growth in real purchasing power per year since WWII. Europe's has allowed 2% growth. This means the the part of "standard of living" that's determined by what stuff you can afford in America doubles relavite to Europe every 35 years or so. Let's say the extra job security in Europe doubles your standard of living. OK, your ahead for 35 years and behind forever after.
Productivity and technology together make more difference in your standard of living than you might imagine, because it accumulates over the generations. It is more compassionate to be secure in your job, if it means you don't have the medical technology to save your child's life, as your system delayed the technology for most vaccines by 100 years?
It's not as cut-and-dry as you make it out to be. Higher productivity really does drive useful technology faster.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
This article http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/050912/1163171.html?.v=1 clarifies that these 5900 European job cuts are part of the 14,500 worldwide job cuts announced in July.
I think you need a more realistic perspective before you rant like that.
For a start, I challenge your assumption about "most successful people". It's well-documented that working long hours for extended periods provides rapidly diminishing returns, and ultimately becomes counter-productive as the damage caused by mistakes made while tired takes longer to undo later on.
About 35-40 hours is the most productive sustained hourly rate, and it's remarkably consistent across different industries and workers. You can get additional returns up to about 60 hours in short bursts, though they become less the higher the hours get. By about 80 hours, you're back to being only as productive as you were in the first 40 again as they additional 40 have cancelled out.
Go ahead and Google for this, or just try this article for a fairly representative comment. There are plenty of scientifically conducted studies, right back to Ford's observations about the guys building cars in his factory. The five-day working week came about in much the same way, BTW.
Next up, perhaps Mr Seventy Hours will be lazy rich in his 50s and living over there with a big house and car. The difference between us is that I will have lived for 50 years already when I get to my 50th birthday, and I won't die young from burn out.
Perhaps, but I'll take working smarter over working harder any day, and I bet I get there as fast as the butt-buster.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
That's a quote from The HP Way by David Packard, a book given to every single employee of Hewlett-Packard, at least it was when I joined in '98. I wonder if the current CEO even read it.
Since the merger it's like HP sucked all the Suck out of Compaq's sucky products and injected it into HP products.
And it's not like it wasn't foreseeable. It's the reason that the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, and the William R. Hewlett Revocable Trust voted against the merger. It's the reason I voted against the merger.