Slashdot Mirror
Changing a Windows Network to Linux?
Charli125 asks: "I have been a Windows administrator ever since I got into the tech industry. I have no working experience with any other OS except for those from Apple. I am currently working with a small company that has 1 server and around 15 workstations. I would like to faze out all of the Windows software, in order to avoid having to deal with viruses, save money, and learn how the other half lives. Since I have never so much as installed Linux, I am looking for resources or advice on how to get started, and how to plan the change over. Can anyone help me?"
"My current setup is like this:
Server-Windows Small Business Server 2003, Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition(and for Exchange)
Workstations-Windows XP Pro, Office 2003 or XP, Symantec Antivirus, IE for most of the browsers (Firefox for mine and a few others). The main apps used are like every other office, Word and Excel.
I have OpenOffice installed on my home computer, and it works fine. I do see a problem with non-tech types saving in the default format though, which would result in other users not being able to read the documents/spreadsheets.
Yeah, I know, I'm so MSFT, I'm everything you guys hate about the IT world, but I would really appreciate anything that would help me get started.
Thanks"
Server-Windows Small Business Server 2003, Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition(and for Exchange)
Workstations-Windows XP Pro, Office 2003 or XP, Symantec Antivirus, IE for most of the browsers (Firefox for mine and a few others). The main apps used are like every other office, Word and Excel.
I have OpenOffice installed on my home computer, and it works fine. I do see a problem with non-tech types saving in the default format though, which would result in other users not being able to read the documents/spreadsheets.
Yeah, I know, I'm so MSFT, I'm everything you guys hate about the IT world, but I would really appreciate anything that would help me get started.
Thanks"
Since I have never so much as installed Linux, I am looking for resources or advice on how to get started, and how to plan the change over. Can anyone help me?
Not to sound condescending here, but honestly...if you've never even installed Linux, much less used it long-term, you really have no idea what you're letting yourself in for.
My advice would be to install Linux on your home system in a dual-boot configuration with your existing Windows install. Then, use the Linux system exclusively. If something comes up that you don't know how to do in Linux, don't boot into Windows...figure out how to do it on Linux. Only switch to Windows if you have no other option, and if you do, keep a detailed record of the transgression in a notebook (hereafter referred to as the 'Book of Shame'). Also, remember to try to do things your users at work will be expected to be able to do...after all, you're evaluating the feasibility of Linux in your workplace as well as your home. After you've figured out how to do something you couldn't do previously, check off its entry in the Book of Shame.
After a few weeks (months?) of this, sit down with your Book of Shame and see what you've learned. How many entries do you have? How many were subsequently checked off? At this point, you should have a good idea of whether or not deploying Linux in the workplace is a viable option for you.
One more thing...use the resources available to you. Here's a good link to some online Linux courses...you might want to check them out for starters. Also, the Web and the newsgroups usually have good information about whatever question you might have, if you have the patience to dig deeply enough, and the self-esteem to withstand the few elitist jerks who scoff and call you a n00b. Finally, read those man pages!
I'm looking forward to seeing what you find out...please remember to let us know. ^_^
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
I would like to faze out all of the Windows software ...
From the MacOS Dictionary application:
USAGE NOTE faze, phase
Faze = disconcert; daunt. Phase (verb) = carry out (a plan, program, etc.) in stages. Phase for faze is an increasingly common blunder--e.g.: "Others said they had weathered so many rumors that nothing phased [read fazed ] them anymore." ( Boston Globe; June 6, 1995.) The opposite error ( faze for phase) also occurs, but more rarely--e.g.: "All that while shooting guard Art Mlotkowski, shadowed all over the court by Northport senior Rob Sanicola, was fazed [read phased ] out of the offense." ( Newsday [New York]; Feb. 26, 1995.) -- BG
Well, maybe rule number one:
I think this whole article must be a troll. If not, the desire to faze [sic] out the current setup is misguided. The setup mentioned above, if properly administered, will work just fine as it is.
One's job as an administrator is not to go with what is 'cool', but what works and keeps the buisness running. Throwing out the existing config in order to "save money" is wrongheaded. The first thing to do would be a total cost study to see if money will be saved. Making such a change to "see how the other half lives" is the sort of thing that is done in your lab, on a test network.
Avoiding viruses, while not as easy, can generally be done via proactive patching and ensuring that antivirus software remains updated via some sort of top-down policy which enforces updating.
So, yes, I'll fall back on my earlier statement that this is either a troll or horribly misguided.
I would like to faze out all of the Windows software
Answer.com definition of faze is interesting in this context -
faze (fâz) pronunciation tr.v., fazed, fazing, fazes. To disrupt the composure of; disconcert. See synonyms at embarrass.
If that's what the poster wanted to do, isn't he wasting everyone's time? (I think disruption comes free when you have Windows servers and workstations - or did MS start charging for it separately?)
If you are currently using Exchange the answer is no.
TIME is the Aether...
"I have been a Windows administrator ever since I got into the tech industry. I have no working experience with any other OS except for those from Apple."
Poor customer. Seriously, I've got a Linux and no Windows background, but wouldn't be ready to dive into such a venture by asking advice on some random website. For god's sake this is Slashdot!
You must be new here.
Don't convert your shop to Linux. Especially if you've never so much as installed it before. You will run into problems, and you will have no clue how to fix them, pissing off your users and disrupting your company's business. No matter how bad it is running Windows, it will be worse running any platform you aren't familiar with.
Install a system for you home use and use it exclusively for as long as it takes to get comfortable. Set up some services on those machines and tinker around with them. You should have, in my experience, at least a year with the operating system before you even think of deploying it in a business environment. Less, if you're familiar with similar operating systems.
No comment.
How this got accepted on Slashdot, I can't imagine. It's clearly not a sincere query.
First, he says his only professional experience has been working with Windows machines. Then he says that the only experience he has is with Apple systems. Which is it?
Second, he says he doesn't know where to start with regards to involving linux with the network, because he's never so much as installed linux before. Well, the obvious first step would be to start by installing linux.
Third, he ends with a comment intended to do nothing but rile up the Slashdot crowd, because he's "such a MSFT boy". Which doesn't even make sense since in his first sentences, he stated that his only experience is with Windows, but he only knows Apple.
Seriously. Come on.
Not only that, but some PFY is going to switch over all the machines from Windows to Linux just because he knows...er, *finds out* how? Must be pretty cool not to have anybody to answer to.
When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
Hire a competent, certified linux admin. Demote yourself to changeover manager (windows side). Study as an apprentice under the trained Linux admin. Expect to take at least 2 years to become competent to "fly solo".
BTW, since you know Apple, why the hell are you planning on Linux? Apple kit may cost, but not as much as doubling the staff for a couple years, and the modern stuff has all the Unix advantages.
Hire an experienced Linux administrator.
;-)
Seriously.
The first post on this thread has a good suggestion on how to begin getting personal experience with Linux, but seriously, you are talking about pretty big change here, even if you only have a few servers.
Which distro will you choose? Why?
Do you know enough about the system to handle a problem when it occurs?
How much does downtime cost your business?
Would signifcant downtime due to your ignorance of the platform cost more than maintaining and securing the Windows solution you already have?
If you don't have the expertise, it isn't reasonable to ask your employer to pay for you to acquire it in production.
Believe me, I am all for converting businesses, especially small to medium sized businesses, to an open-source infrastructure, but at first glance this seems like you are just begging for trouble.
I'm quite serious when I say if you want to do this, contract out to an expert who does this. I charge $95/hour plus travel/lodging expenses...
Otherwise, maintain what you have and develop sufficient expertise on your own. Convert when you know the answers to all the questions I asked above (and then some), but not before.
While many of us don't like Microsoft, for various reasons, we still use it, many of us exclusively. The network you manage is more important than you realize. You're being paid to reduce uncertainty for the users. It's not fair to your users to increase that uncertainty by orders of magnitude unless there is a massive benefit to the users. Replacement of Office with equivalent functionality is NOT a benefit, as it will only frustrate your users everytime anything unexpected happens. The users will also then have you to personally blame when ANYTHING goes wrong, reguardless of its relevance to the OS switch.
If you want to learn some Linux, get an older machine, put two newer NICs in it, and set up an IPcop firewall. You can use a web browser to configure it once it's installed, and peek around inside it via the console. This gives you the benefit of helping to protect the users, while giving you a linux box to manage.
Don't subject your users to your whim. It may suck for you, but Windows is what the users expect, and can cope with, slashdot bias be damned.
Feel free to ignore my advice, but you might want to update your resume if you do so.
--Mike--
My best advice is to get yourself a small budget using the TOC arguments that keep flying past here on Slashdot.
What to buy:
1. Two or three used machines (P3s or so). One for a file/print server and two dummy workstations to connect to it.
2. Copies of two or three different distros that are specifically designed for this kind of thing.
I've chosen Xandros Business for my office here (I'm the CTO) since it still lets us run some small windows apps and is very "windows-ish" in feel. Read: Easy to switch. But you should compare at least two side by side. Maybe also Redhat or Suse. Make sure there is official support or else you'll tear out all of your hair while learning the ropes. Community supported distros are only good if you are already familiar with Linux on the desktop and know where to begin looking for help.
Basically, it shouldn't be more than $1-2k for a test. Then you can run internal focus groups, try opening critical office documents in OO etc.
Lastly, some companies will give away one or two copies if you ask them nicely. Xandros gave me 3 copies of Business Ed 2.0 at a trade show because I asked. They were giving Community Ed to everyone else. It convinced my team to switch and we bought the rest of the copies after we were sure.
--- Zhez
Knoppix is a linux distribution that comes on a bootable CDROM. It can be used to repair Windoze boxen, test hardware, and install a fully working linux server or workstation.
Buy the book "Knoppix Hacks" from O'Reilly. It is an book about Knoppix, but it serves as an excellent recipie book for linux in general.
For more info visit http://www.knoppix.org/
Religion is poison to rationality, and we lose sight of that at our own peril. -- Lurker2288
Hello,
As the other posted mentioned, dont even think of doing it Live before you know how to do it. Install it at home, setup a PDC/Fileserver first. Setup a desktop to connect to the server, etc. I have used linux for 5 years personally, and didnt attempt to use it for my business until 2 years ago. I had 3 years of exp. with it before i used it on live servers.
Again, as a avid linux user, i always like to suggest it as a option. However in your case, the money is spent, the network works.
Dont fix whats not broken.
My Blog
Since nobody else seems interested in posting anything actually helpful, I guess I will.
Buy SuSE Profesional, the full boxed set. For roughly $100, that will get you most of what you need in order to install, run, and learn to use Linux. My personal observation has been that people who start with SuSE stick with Linux. If you really want to be an expert on Linux, there are other distros that you should consider switching to after you're comfortable on SuSE, but I wouldn't start a new user out on anything else.
Before you switch ANY workstations, you'll want to switch the server. Before you do that you need to do 2 things: learn to use *nix (I highly recomend taking at least "Intro to Unix" at your local JC), and verify that you won't be losing any functionality your users care about in the switch (maybe you don't use any of the unique features of Exchange, maybe you do; only you know).
IFF you can switch the server, only then should you even consider switching the workstations. The right way to do this is to start with the apps. Firefox is probably the easiest first step, then maybe email (Thunderbird or Evolution, probably), then OpenOffice (honestly, if everyone inside your company is using OOo, you're better off in the long run having them save stuff in the default format, and just teaching them how to convert stuff if they need to send it to the outside world for any reason), and finally any job specific apps your employees use. ONLY after all apps required for people to do their jobs have been replaced, and proven to be functional, should you even consider switching the workstations to Linux On the bright side, though, at this point no one will care what OS they're running, and some of them might not even notice.
In short, starting from the point you're currently at, expect it to be AT LEAST a year before you're ready to start considering the server swap, and if all goes well AT LEAST another year before the workstations are switched over. YMMV, mostly depending on how much you apply yourself to learning to use and administer Linux. It isn't easy, but it is worth the effort.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
I'd add:
Of course start with your home machine. If you can't use Linux, you can't support it. Try at least two distros.
Also, since you're completely green, you'll have to switch in stages. Take small steps. It'll take longer, but you'll be better off for it.
Buy and read at least three Linux books. Start with a general one to give you an overview and some basics. Maybe get one on Samba, perhaps another on whatever e-mail or groupware server you decide on.
Stop upgrading your Windows software. Standardize on what you have now, and don't buy a new Dell with Office 2005 whenever it comes out. It will only cause more hassle. Standardize on Firefox immediately. Decide if you need to use Office and Crossover on Linux or if you can switch some or all users to OpenOffice.org. If you can switch, start now.
Once you're completely comfortable using and configuring Linux for yourself (this will take you six months), start by replacing the Windows server. If you do it correctly, your users won't even notice. That's the goal.
From there, switch your worst user to a Linux desktop. Explain to him how Linux works, that it's open source, and that any problems he encounters should be reported and fixed. Make sure this user tears Linux apart. Make it clear this is only a test, and that you want to find problems. Use this time to get acquainted with the bug reporting tools.
Switching to Linux, even in a small network, is a long term project. Problems will crop up along the way. You may need to modify your intended path. Linux comes with lots of options. That's okay. Don't be afraid to try different options as long as you end up with the best configuration for your application. The benefits are definitely worth it.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
don't fix it. *ESPECIALLY* if you don't know what you're doing.
allow me to don my flame proof suit before continuing.
i'll start with a little example to illustrate. i do a lot of prototyping of image processing algorithms. typically, this is done in matlab ($$$ and then some); however, the powers that be are not willing to buy a copy of matlab at present. i am therefore forced to work with octave. octave does about 80% of what i need. unfortunately, the remaining 20% is incredibly painful. i did a little number crunching and came to the conclusion that in my company, a matlab license needs to save between 20 to 30 hours of effort in a year before it's paid for itself. given that i spent two solid weeks reimplementing functionality already in matlab or fixing octave's less-than-stellar implementations of certain things i use on a regular basis, a copy of matlab would have paid for itself twice over.
this isn't a big deal if all you're doing is switching your servers to linux. if you set things up correctly, your users should never even notice. however, once you start talking about replacing the tools that get used on a daily basis you've got a big challenge on your hands. ask yourself this: how much will switching to linux cost in terms of lost productivity? the cost is non-trivial. if the cost per worker per year is greater than the cost of your current setup per worker per year, sticking with the m$ products makes the most business sense.
I don't get it - you have already everything in place, you have server which - I assume - works. You have workstations which work but have some problems with malware (go fix those problems then). You have already paid for everything - so how exactly demolishing your current setup and installing Linux everywhere can work for you?
1. It won't make you save money (on the short run) since you already bought everythink and Linux is not free as in beer also.
2. It will be a lot of learning for you - without proper experience and knowledge your Linux installation will fail miserably - and spending time on learning, gaining experience also costs.
3. Linux is not suitable everywhere (as any other operating system) - it works well in some areas. It does not work in others. For example for common office desktop use it simply lacks applications - sure there is office suite, mail client and web browser - but this is not all that common office needs - go examine what your users need to do their job done and check if there are some Linux equivalents - also mind that Linux software can also be costly (as in money).
So with that in mind I think it is, a completely retarded idea to convert evertyhing to Linux.
What I can suggest you is to pop in one Linux server box to you existing network - integrate it with Windows Networking and see what this baby can do for you. Constantly add features to it. Explore the world of its software - learn what can be done with Linux. Think of any purposes for this system, f.e.:
1. File/print server.
2. Web/application server.
3. Database server.
4. Backup server.
5. Remote access server.
6. Mail server.
7. Lowend net infrastructure server (DNS/DHCP).
Etc. etc. - see if any those roles can help you in your work, can help you save money and so on. Then after some time you will be able to *extend* your network, pop in some other Linux boxes, maybe even on desktop. And make Linux work for you where it is best suitable - but you must know yourself. Linux is completely different world.
And also for more concrete information consult your distribution documentation - and for learning I think the best is task based aproach - so you give yourself a task and then explore to allow you to accomplish it. Like set up a web server.
You want to know the easiest and fastest way to gain the experience necessary to do this?
Sign up with no-ip to get yourself a (yourserver.no-ip.org) domain.
Install whichever linux your research leans you toward (I recommend FreeBSD) on this machine.
Now set up a workstation, with whatever distro your research leans you towards.
Now pretend to be the user and the admin for a while. Given enough time you should be able to master this small set up and do a fairly decent job administering it.
./revolution
While many of us don't like Microsoft, for various reasons, we still use it, many of us exclusively.
On the other hand, many of us don't use it at all, and don't miss it. I've got 5 boxes on my KVM switcher here, and every one of them is running some flavour of *nix. There's no reason that I can see to use Windows; we have exactly one Windows box in the office and it is used for 1) testing web pages and 2) testing anti-virus software.
Reading the rest of your post (You're being paid to reduce uncertainty for the users. It's not fair to your users to increase that uncertainty by orders of magnitude unless there is a massive benefit to the users.) and (Feel free to ignore my advice, but you might want to update your resume if you do so.) and I almost begin to wonder if you've got a case of FUD. GNU/Linux et al work just as well and are a heck of a lot easier to administer, less random in their behaviour, and more reliable than Windows if the system administrator knows whats they are doing. The problem with Windows is that even if you know what you are doing you run a high risk of finding yourself in a can't-get-there-from-here situation with no way to find out what's happening or even start to fix it.
--MarkusQ
Since you've actually used Macs before, you would gain some of the advantages of Linux + have some basis of knowledge with which to support these users if you replaced their machines with Macs.
Additionally, you can continue to use Microsoft Office--like Windows, but no viruses.
The hardware would cost more than using Linux to be sure--so do it a step at a time. I would replace the Win Server with Mac OS X Server running off of a low-power Xserve or a even a nice G5 tower; then replace the workstations as they die (or with mini Macs for $500 each to reuse the monitor/keyboard). Doing it this way a) reduces the cost of the Windows Server license, as X Server doesn't have CALs; b) can continue serving to the Windows clients without a hitch, even using ACLs and Active Directory now; and c) secures the most vulnerable part of your network--the external facing--first.
I can guarantee that the downtime by converting to Linux, and OS you don't know at all, will be more expensive than the cost of the hardware of an OS that you do know.
--
$tar -xvf
is there a way that you can avoid virus and spyware hassles while sticking with what you know (windows)?
yes. try virtualization (virtual pc, vmware, etc) and combine it with roaming profiles on your domain. users' preferences and documents are stored (and backed up!) in a central location, and you can control what software goes onto the images they're using.
it makes the upgrade cycle easier too.
i don't know if this is feasible for only ~20 computers, but it's definitely something to look into.
Like other posters have said - don't replace your Windows stuff. But if you HAVE to have Linux, you can start by putting Linux at your perimeter. You can make a firewall (Smoothewall) and some smtp proxies with spamassasin and clamav. Start there, and work your way up.
If you want your users to save in the Microcrap Formates you can change it to automatically secture them just goto Tools->Options->Load/Save->General. I would also suggest using the OpenOffice 2.0 beta. I havnt seen any bugs in it and it run soooo nice much better then anything else ive ever used.
It really sounds like you need to secure the perimeter of your network, you don't have to put all of your users through hell to do it. Set up a nice stateful packet filter using Linux. I don't know what kind of business you operate, so I don't know what incoming servies you need to come nto your network. If you need some help setting up an iptables firewall, go read the manual here.
The netfilter docs will get you started, and there is a more in depth tutorial which illustrates some of the fancier iptables capabilities, read it here.
Just my home firewall alone drops about 2,000 Slammer worms every day using a similar setup outlined in Oskar Andreasson's example firewall configuration.
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
First off, recent Linux distros have become big, bloated and hard to learn. Save yourself a lot of trouble and go with Redhat 5.1.
Second, many studies have shown that command line is more productive than GUI, so don't install X.
You'll find that your users will love having a choice of software, instead of being locked into a single application.
email: mail, elm or pine
word processor: troff or LaTex
web browsing: Lynx or wget
The list goes on and on.
Enjoy!
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
I installed Linux at home as dual boot, playd with it; freaked over video drivers, install it again, then later again because I found another issue or distro... many many installs... ok, you will be re-installing a few times at first...:-) Also you will be getting used to using the terminal to run the configuration tools and getting the handle of your edtVIor of choice, learning about when to use root and when not to, etc.
So, get a good book like the Linux Bible ones by Wiley which will give you a intro on what you are going to be handling. Spend the winter going though that. Once you get through that then get a better book on just Linux Administration to fine tun how to administer Linux. During this by all means, set up your home with a Linux box and/or server and work out your stumbling blocks first!
(It's definately a peach to run, but it takes a bit of knowing what you 'really want' to initally set it up for business.)
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
It should get rewarded if the advice is half-way decent, which in this case it is.
http://www.versora.com/products/
and services page:
http://www.versora.com/services/
We have also published various white papers on some of the technical issues associated with migrating from Windows to Linux:
http://www.versora.com/support/documentation.php
Yes, yes this article appears to be a troll. However, if you are indeed serious, you can configure the default file type for saving in OpenOffice's options menu. Also, I concur with the advice of others here to either learn linux well before you try to deploy it, hire a linux admin, stick with what you've got or switch to OSX.
go with Redhat 5.1
Surely you're joking. That distro hasn't been supported for at least five years. The lightest distro you will find supported today is Debian Woody, and it's slated for retirement soon.
many studies have shown that command line is more productive than GUI
That's probably true. I've had attorneys come to me and ask about using a system like LaTex for document production. While it's a lot of training and work up-front, it would definitely save effort in the long run.
But the effort involved in making a switch like that is likely insurmountable for a small organization. Unless you're dealing with school children, an extremely large corporation, or really dedicated users, you won't be able to get them to switch to text-based apps.
For a small office using general-purpose apps, available Linux GUI environments are close enough to Windows and Mac not to pose a challenge for migration.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Second, DON'T try to convert everything in one day. Try to reproduce the working conditions of one computer - preferably a non-critical one - in every detail, just using Linux. Once you've done that, and you've ironed out the problems by letting a user try it, THEN move onto the next one.
Third, do the server the same way - reproduce the system under Linux on a different machine and work on making it stable. THEN try letting a guinea-pig user run connections to it. Once you're satisfied, migrate users over but not until.
To reproduce the server, you'll probably need an Exchange clone. There are several (eg: Open Exchange is a clone down to the protocol, eGroupWare does many of the same functions but isn't a drop-in replacement) and if you shop around you'll find something that'll work for you. But this is exactly why you need burn-in time - you need to KNOW what will work for you, not just think you know.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...for Microsoft to generate a lot of responses as to why it would be bad to switch to Linux from Windows. Never mind that in general, any unplanned attempt to radically change a business infrastructure is a bad idea, this particular thread makes it seem that it's just not a good idea to switch from Windows.
I just wonder what was the real point of this article.
Just like many other posters here, I'm going to side with them when I say, "don't do it." I work for a company that sells Linux solutions. Together, the four of us have at least 45 years of Unix/Linux/FreeBSD experience. And I can tell you from some of the jobs that we've done, suddenly converting a decently-sized Windows office to an exclusively Linux one will end your career.
We recently outfit a new office with an insanely fast Linux terminal server running KDE, Firefox, OpenOffice, the whole nine yards. Two laser printers, a scanner, Asterisk for the phone system, and a VoIP phone on every desk. We all thought it was pretty slick and were ready to phone up the presses and magazines so they could run stores on how much money we were able to save the customer by using Linux.
Until they started hiring employees.
Now, all of us here have happily used Linux pretty well exclusively on the desktop for years, so we sure didn't see this kind of backlash coming. For awhile there, it was just about daily that the tech support line would ring with an angry user on the end. "How do you duplex print on this thing?" "Where's Internet Explorer?" "My Mariah Carey CD won't play!" "I renamed my document to
I am not even close to joking. We may end up terminating the contract early just to end all the abuse we've taken from the employees and managers. They had not a single good thing to say about the system because they were your typical bottom-rung white-collar office temps who had only ever used Windows and were not afraid to tell you how stupid you were for trying to make them learn something new.
Don't think you're going to do nearly this well when you try to convert an established office to Linux.
Boss: WTF?!?! Charlie, get your ass in here!! How come Outlook says it cannot find the email server.
Charlie125: Look again closely, Sir, it 'says'..
"Your Gnome tip-of-the-day is that your 'OutLook' is bright".. "Cannot find any 'E-Mail' viruses".. on our new Linux servers!!
Boss: Looks.. (stupid as ever) :)
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
Hi Charlie,
1. First of all, grab Knoppix, burn it to a CD, and spend a few days (or a few weeks, whatever you feel comfortable with) playing with it. The base CD doesn't install anything to the hard drive, so you can't harm anything. This is a completely safe, non-intimidating way for you to initially get your feet wet.
2. While you're exploring Knoppix, there are a few things to read which will really help you. This will give you a very good introduction to Linux, in terms of a little history of the system, how to begin using it, and how some basic things work. Here is another in-depth document about using Linux, leading on from the previous one.
3. Once you've gone through those two, (take as much time as you need) this, written by the same man as the introduction, will introduce you to the Bash shell, the textual command interpreter where as a sysadmin in particular you'll likely be spending a lot of your time. This will ease you into scripting in what I think will be a very non-intimidating way. You will be able to try out all of these exercises with the Knoppix CD, and again, because the CD doesn't install anything to the hard drive, you needn't worry about destroying your existing system's contents while you learn. This is another book on Bash scripting which to a degree follows on from that one, and will go into somewhat greater depth. Both of these should lead to you feeling very comfortable writing shell scripts and moving around to a degree on the system.
4. Here is where we get to some meat. This document goes into compiling and installing generic Linux/UNIX software, and offers some basic applications and examples. Once you've gone through this, coupled with the material above, you should now have sufficient understanding to be able to compile and install at least a basic application yourself.
5. The Pocket Linux Guide will take you step by step through the process of learning to make a small, bootable Linux system on two floppy disks. Although compiling a basic custom kernel is part of this process, the Guide contains a link to another document which explains very clearly how to do this, and given the background you will have received from the previous documents, this should not be difficult.
6. Once you have completed the Pocket Linux Guide, you will then be ready to proceed to this site, which is the homepage of the Linux From Scratch Project. Here you will be able to read an HTML-formatted book which will give you the necessary information to successfully build an entire base Linux system of your own, and a more pure boot CD than Knoppix to initially build it upon. The Linux From Scratch Project also has a sequel book, Beyond Linux From Scratch, which describes how to install, among other things, a full graphical user interface with the X Windows system.
7. After you have completed all of this, although it is not crucial, I thoroughly recommend reading this book during idle moments. (It's still a good mealtime accompaniment for me) It will give you a detailed knowledge of the history and philosophy behind the UNIX operating system in general, which I am sure you will find enormously useful.
(Slashdot flamers, start your engines. I'm aware I'm likely to get a ton of abuse from corporate droids in particular about how I'm not telling him to find hand-holding tech support/this isn't practical advice, blah blah blah. For anyone considering res
Linux is hardly beyond your capabilities, but as with any new skill, there will be a learning curve. Learn about Linux on some computers that don't matter before you try and deploy it in a business environment.
You have lots of different distros from which to choose, although you'll probably want to go one of two different routes. If you want to dive in head first, then use Slackware, which will have the steepest learning curve. If you want to be eased in the friendly way, then try Ubuntu. I'm sure you're getting all kinds of advice about which distro to pick for your first install because everybody has their own opinion on which one is best, so maybe you should just read about all the major ones yourself and then pick one on your own. However, speaking as someone who has tried a whole lot of them, I think that Slackware is a great way to go if you want to learn by making mistakes, and Ubuntu is the way to go if you want to learn the easy way.
Anyway, I'd get a couple old desktops, set them up in your home, one as a server, and one as a desktop machine, and just try to do stuff with them until you get good at it.
If you want a book suggestion, I think that "How Linux Works" from No Starch Press is a great introduction to Linux.
The one thing I have never figured is how to replace a RAS (Remote Access Server) running under Windows. How DO windows users dial into a Samba network over the phone?
Ed Almos
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
Leave the users alone.
The users don't give a shit at all what you run on the server, so long as it works. That's your domain, as long as they don't get hit with problems, that's your first step.
On that server, you can do whatever you please. Installing additional stuff like CRM packages that integrate with what they have already is a great place to start. You will also have to train the users on this software. Something else you may or may not know how to do at the moment. Can't harm to hire a trainer though if the budget is there.
The server side I know you will be able to convert in a weekend, but you need to go through and analyse EVERYTHING that they do. I am sure that if you are their admin you know everything (Roughly) that they do already so this bit won't be that hard.
What you need to do is think about everything that they use that server for... For everything go through and write a list and write down what it's equivelant is going to be:
Windows File and Printer Sharing - Samba
Email - Qmail / Courier?
Webmail - IMP
Remote Access - PPTP? IPSEC?
Backups - Amanda
Printing - CUPS / Samba
PDF Document conversion - GhostScript
User Management - LDAP (With or without kerberos?)
Centralised Calendering - Figure out
Also, write everything down. I can't stress this enough, if it's in your head consider it gone. When you move through this project later you will be thinking.... Why was I thinking that?
Once you have this list, go through, install and setup all the differnt stuff, this will help you make an even more informed decision.
There are a LOT of questions that you are going to have to look into.
The business, if there isn't any great loss sometimes are willing to switch as for a simple thing as network based PDF conversion and Anti Spam.
This can save the company money. That is something they will definately be interested in.
Also, I noticed that you are running SBS 2003. Are they using Windows Portal Services at all? SQL databases?
On this note, do you have software assurance? What you might be better off doing would be waiting till support for 2003 dies and then have a solution ready to take it's place (Presuming you stay there that long). Either that or use the money that you would spend on migrating to 2005 when it comes out to move to Linux.
Once you have done this, this will be first step. Then start changing the users over. Overall, changing the OS of the workstations will most likely end up harder to do than the server stuff, but if you can pull this off, then it will become easier to do the desktop stuff as you will understand much better at this point what it's all about.
My email address is real and have been there before, if you want to ask a question, flick it across.
Berny
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
Just change OOo to save to Microsoft Office format by default. That's no problem.
objorkum dot com
I completely agree that you're going to need to learn how to run Linux before you run Linux, but there are things you should do WHILE you are learning Linux:
/net install so it works for all users, and change the default file formats to the MSOfc ones in the configuration.
/. vastly more experienced than I am, I'm a professional technologist and have repeatedly executed this transition.
0. Linux is a perfect OS for your server, but consider strongly whether you really want Linux for your workstations or you really want OSX. OSX provides a vastly superior interface for untrained users and generally supports most Linux software and a very large amount of professional software that Linux doesn't. If you're going to go with Linux, though...
1. First install Firefox and OpenOffice on everyone's Windows machine. For OOo make sure you do the
2. Get them used to Firefox. It's generally superior to IE, but the real reason to force it is better (but not perfect) security. Immediately convert their bookmarks and the default browser to Firefox; hide the obvious shortcuts to IE. Warn them that IE may be disabled.
3. Then get them used to OOo instead of MSOfc. This is likely your biggest cost savings; new workstations usually ship with the Windows tax anyway.
4. Find out what other applications they use, find out if there is a Linux version, an OSS equivalent, or if it runs in WINE. You are never going to transition anybody's workstation until they can perform all of their work functions in the new OS. This is going to take considerable time to indentify and solve.
5. Transition the server(s) to Linux on your next server upgrade. With the effectiveness of Samba, transferring your workstations and your server to Linux are mostly independent actions, but I highly recommend changing the server first.
6. After the server is settled, transition SOME workstations - starting with the ones you've settled point #4 on most completely. There WILL be problems, so don't migrate the whole office immediately. Most users, familiar with Windows, will be less happy with Linux than with Windows.
While I'm sure there are people on
I highly recommend SuSE for someone in your position; it is a powerful Linux installation but also has Windows-style dialogs for all the configurations. While I'm sure there will be zealots for other flavors, I've found their configuration to be more straightforward and functional than the competition.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
As most people have mentioned, you are atleast two years out from a full migration (assuming your company does not acquire consultants/senior unix admins) so here are some thoughts..
.. so brush up on your Windows admin skills. Restricting administrative access, keeping patches up-to-date (centralized patch deployment via sus/group policy), keeping your network adequately isolated (scanning incoming email/files, properly configured firewalls, network monitoring, etc..) and creating group policies goes a LONG way to combatting many common Windows issues. This should be your #1 priority.
1. Learn all you can about Linux on your own test machines. There is a LOT of information out there (books, websites, user groups, classes, etc..) -- get as involved as you can. If possible, find a mentor that can help guide you. Unix/Linux is different from Windows and the mindset is different. You will run into many brick walls attempting to manage a linux machine like a Windows machine until you really start to fully understand how the system works.
2. Establish concrete rational for your migration plans. Ideally a 5 year proposal or similar might be a good idea. This should include the steps of the migration (ie converting apps to cross platform apps.. migrating the server... desktop rollout.. etc..) and have the input of individuals familiar with these types of migrations. In addition, evaluate advantages of the migration. Perhaps the use of thin clients or other hardware cost saving measures would be viable.
3. Learn Windows. It sounds like your having issues with Windows. Needless to say, you are stuck with Windows for a while
While there are fundamental differences between Windows networks and Unix/Linux networks, both benefit greatly from solid admin skills. This involves maintaining the infrastructure, evaluating and minimizing security issues, keeping the end-user productive (if your job extends this far, this might include profiling a worker and providing technical solutions to minimize redundancy, rework or other time consuming, zero profit tasks) and understanding the industry (both tech and your companies industry) and developing a road map that (ideally) gives your company a competitive edge.
I've actually had quite good success by taking a piecemeal approach to converting an office. Split the environment into server and desktop functionality. For each environment, create a test environment so that you can play, learn, make mistakes in and resolve potential show stoppers. Keep good documentation as to what you are doing.
For each environment, see what you are running. SBS means you are running file and print services, email, (possibly) database, and (possibly) routing and firewall services. Setup a test Linux server which you only have access to. Since this is a test box, even a desktop machine can be used as a server. Try to setup the Linux server to replicate the services that are provided by the SBS server. For example, if you have a common data share, create that same share on Linux using Samba. When you've done this for all identified services, use the new environment for a while so that you become knowledgeable in it. Make sure you pay attention to the maintenance aspects (things like backups, event logs etc.)
If you need management approval to take the next step, make a good business case for it. You're going to have to sell it. Prepare a good demonstration to management. Include things like handouts, a slide show and documentation. Make sure these contain things that management cares about, like cost projections, support and maintenability.
Only once you've had some experience with the installation and replacement services in the test envirornment, you are ready to proceed to convert your production environement.
Make sure that you finish with one environment before starting the other. Give yourself sometime in between the two. I always start with the server first because its the easiest of the two. The desktop always has issues that will take quite a while to resolve (such as macros in Office documents, special Windows apps, MS Access db etc.)
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill.
Linux - of the people, by the people, and for the people.
Given your stated background...
1. Forget this idea, get past the sheepish feeling, and go on with your life.
2. Drink heavily and refer to #1
3. If you cannot go through with #1, at least start with #2.
4. Watch Willow and when Billy Barty says that you should forget all you know or think you know, LISTEN TO HIM!
5. Go look up and read The Unix-Hater's Handbook. Its wise content came about for a reason and comes from early Unix pioneers and more to the point, victims.
6. Spend some cash on a primo stash of good pr0n, preferably rare stuff that can't be found online, and a case of scotch whiskey, possibly Jagermeister as well. You'll need something to bribe a Linux geek with. Also bring handcuffs and not duct tape for the capture. They have some innate skill with duct tape for some reason.
7. Keep the captured Linux geek in a basement, their normal environment. Every so often scream down the stairs in a falsetto voice as if you were their mother. It keeps them motivated to buck the system starting with parental authority so they will hack away happily as long as they think they're doing something nefarious.
8. Learn from the Linux geek but do not become tainted by their hatred of Micrsoft and general know-it-all arrogance. The world works completely differently than the way Linux geeks think it should because the world's way works and the other way... doesn't. Besides, you like having money to pay for a house where you live on the main floors and not in your parents' basement.
9. Take up C and when you think you've gotten the hang of it, take up C++ and tell yourself that the C training was only a joke. The paradigm shifting without a clutch effect will prepare you for the emotional shock you're slowly getting.
10. Practice on DOS and possibly Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing if you can find a copy. You will need much better keyboard skills than you ever did with Windows. Read twenty pages of the dictionary and transcribe them every night because you'll be eventually typing ten times that much on a daily basis.
11. Learn to skip the shock, anger, and denial phases and go straight to serene and possibly drunken acceptance of anything and everything. Make friends with any demons and devils you encounter as there's no Virgil to guide you through Dependency Hell which Dante unfortunately left out.
12. Kiss all your free time goodbye whenever you upgrade kernels as you will be reloading various drivers most notably those of the video card. if you think you can keep prior installations indefinitely, forget that idea as you will sooner or later have a conflict that can only be resolved by uninstalling the prior driver installations. This is felt by the Linux community to be superior to Windows install and forget it method because it teaches you to appreciate pain as a daily fact of life.
13. No matter what, do not fall for the siren song of Vi, Emacs, and their supporters who purport that these are the only editors. There are others, you can be helped. You need not totally surrender to the mindset that the incorrect way is best.
Good luck and my prayers are with you. (A Linux user silently wishing GnuCash was one millionth as useful as Microsoft Money)
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
I would suggest starting with an extra computer perhaps at home. I run Slackware personally. Take a machine. Clean it out. Don't dual boot. Install all the packages (~4GB).
...), Firefox, OpenOffice, xmms, mplayer, ... The file browser that comes with KDE works well as a PDF and general image viewer. There are also a *host* of other good software installed for every conceivable use.
If you choose Slackware, remember that, to get X-Windows working right from boot, you need to set the runlevel in the init script. (Get to know VI! It's powerful and extremely fast.) Once this is done, log into the window manager and desktop environment (I use KDE), and configure to your pleasure. Configure your ~/.bash_profile to use any aliases you desire if you intend to use the console considerably.
Get the necessities to work: Internet connection (su, dhcpcd, ifconfig,
Use the hell out of the machine. If you run into problems (which you will), write them down, solve them, document your solution for next time, and conquer the next problem. All the help and documentation you will ever need is available on-line.
Before too long, you will be accustomed to Linux use, and be able to enjoy the liberty, rock-solid stability, and features it provides.
From then on, you can convert other machines as desired. Server, desktop, whatever. It's your choice. Just keep tinkering. You will learn more than you ever expected and be empowered every step of the way.
Welcome aboard.
While I do love linux myself, making a full-on switch without experience could be seen as a form of professional hari-kari.
First thing would be to find out what your main server does, and see what alternative replacements there are. Some examples:
web: apache
firewall/NAT: iptables
proxy: squid
fileserver: samba
printing: cups
ftp: proftpd (or better, SSH-based services with winSCP clients, etc).
However, as per the parent's recommendation, setting up a home server would probably not test it well for a real-world scenario in the long run, though it might be a start. If you can, try setting up a home server... and another idea (or an additional one) would be to setup a small secondary server at work... start with the basics and just have it serve up network shares with samba or maybe webpages with apache. From there, try adding other features and transitioning them over as you get them to work. There's no reason you can't have the windows server as your primary and then mount network shares or have webpages on the secondary during the transition period, and it gives you a chance to test the waters.
Oh, and setup a backup plan early on... always a good idea when dipping into unknown waters.
If you have no experience in some sort of unix, then dont even think about switching your company over.
Spend enough time learning, to the point you dont need to ask how.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
My path might take multiple months or longer - depending how much time you attach to it. But it will save you headaches down the road.
1)Don't do a thing. I mean a thing on converting anything till you KNOW linux.
2)Get into hardcore distros like Slackware (at first) or Gentoo.
3)Install Linux From Scratch yourself. (LFS is a distro and you will learn from that experience).
4)Set up a complete working environment from LFS with all the tools you need. Work on it and don't flirt with MS unnecessarily while you are on it (unless you need to for work, not recreation - meaning if you need to play MP3/DVDs do it in linux).
5)Start setting up servers for the hell of it and with LFS/Slackware/Gentoo or other distro.
6)Test. Play. Experiment. Read a few books like Linux Administrator Handbooks.
By now, you should be competent with linux.
7. Pick a nice user friendly distro for the office workers. Include openoffice/ftpclient/emailclient and whatever else they need.
Have a sane migration plan.
In a word Xandros, it comes bundled with crossover office and is relativly stable and it's a debian distro with the easiest install for a linux platform I've run into yet, and beleive me I've tried a few. It's not totally bugless but it will work for what you want and ditch the viruses and the tuesday afternoon thru when ever you finish testing the microsoft patch blues.
Here you go:
.). Most administrator/install issues are covered in the admin guide, but the scope is limited. Advanced tasks (like setting up a tomcat application server) general refer you to project documentation online.
:( ) are awesome.
1. Pick your distribution. The answer here is 'SuSE'. Enough Windows metaphors hold in the default SuSE environment that it will be easy to get used to.
Plus, YaST makes most sorts of basic configuration tasks really, really easy.
Also, make *sure* you buy SuSE. SuSE comes with excellent manuals in the box set. Any sort of user task that you can think of is covered in the user manual (burning a CD, hooking up a digital camera, SMB shares, NFS shares, printing sharing, the various web browser, OpenOffice.org usage, Gimp usage, scanner usage, etc. .
If this is your first look at linux, read the introduction! It explains things like the file system hierarchy (where did my drive letters go!), CUPS (beautiful, automatic, end-to-end postscript printing!), and other linux need-to-knows.
2. Find two test system. These should be yours and someone else similiarly dedicated, or yours alone. The purpose of these two systems is for you to get used to handling Windows operations on Linux. This makes the transition easier.
3. Determine the hardware compatibility of your two test system. What video cards? What sound cards? What network cards?
Odds are, most of this stuff will work out of box, but its a good idea to check. I've not heard of wired network cards that do not work with SuSE out of box, but they might exist. Most any video card will work in 2D mode: 3D, however, could be more difficult. Sound cards are pretty easy, too, unless its cutting edge stuff, or ancient stuff that was discontinued a long time ago.
4. Make sure you have a minimum of 256 MBs of ram. No, really. If you don't have a minimum of 256 MBs of ram, Windows will feel subjectively faster than SuSE. You'll need another distribution. Not saying that SuSE won't work, or work well: Just that you'll some harddisk thrashing when running OpenOffice.org, KDE, Firefox, and Thunderbird at the same time. SuSE is slightly more memory hungry than other distributions, and more so if you use prelinking.
The requirement is for 128 MBs of ram, but, subjectively, you won't have a wonderful experience without 256, except for basic tasks. I've got two laptop users, both with 128 MBs of ram, and they are the ones first slated for system upgrades, because their systems run pretty slow.
5. Install SuSE on these two test systems. This part is easy, especially if you've done the above homework. Odds are, all your hardware will be supported out of box, no drivers or configuration needed. Most necessary software will be in the box, too.
6. Optional. If you have needed of that 'one last windows app', purchase Crossover Office from www.codeweavers.com. This will let you run most Windows apps on Linux.
7. Migrate ALL your network share needs to one of these two SuSE testbeds. This means printer, file-sharing, and document backup. Every printer on your network should be on one of these systems. Introduce a NEW documents folder for all your users on their desktops. This folder will link to an SMB share on one of the testbeds. Instruct them to save everything there, and duplicate their existing 'My Documents' to there. Either that, or convert you existing network store infrastructure to a similar linux framework.
This is easier than it sounds. You can easily piece through the process of establishing network shares from the SuSE Admin manual. It's all GUI stuff-- don't listen to these guys telling you to poke around through the conf files-- that's stuff you can learn latter. Right now, the SuSE admin tools are pretty good, and the SuSE server admin tools (costs lots of money
If you want, *after* you've configured it via gui, open up the man page for smb.conf (in konqueror! man:smb.conf), and go take a look at your
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
When I started using linux for the first time, I first visited these sites to get my problems solved. I list some of them below.
http://linuxquestions.org/
http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/
http://linux.org/
http://tldp.org/