Slashdot Mirror
TiVo OS Update Adds Content Protection
generic-man writes "According to PVRBlog, TiVo's new operating system update enables content protection flags on a per-show basis. On some programs, notably syndicated shows, a red flag appears to indicate that the copyright holder has requested that TiVo devices not save a program past a certain date and that the program may not be copied to a PC using TiVo to Go. TiVo users were told to expect this style of flag only on pay-per-view and video on demand programming, and as such are upset that TiVo has restricted the capabilities of the receivers they bought and subscribed to use. The TiVo Community boards have some screen shots and firsthand accounts."
For some reason I remember reading that Tivo struggles to stay out of the red and that they are really not even that profitable. So why then would they add in a feature to restrict the functionality of their product and piss people off?
There has to be something else here, this just doesnt make buisness sense.
This is a bug on behalf of the Tivo software...
c opy_protection.html
See
http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2005/09/
Update: Jim Denney, director of product marketing for TiVo, said the instances of standard TV shows being affected by new copy protection restrictions likely are "false positives."
Denney said the copy protection is trigged by a flag in the video signal. The reports appearing on the Web appear to be cases where TiVo misinterprets noise in the signal as a copy protection flag, and imposes the restrictions.
"During the test process, we came across people who had false positives because of noisy analog signals," he said. "We actually delayed development (of the new TiVo software) to address those false positives."
Apparently they still didnt fix the issues.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
Read: http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/09/tivo_72_os_adds .html
h p?p=3233152&&#post3233152
h p?p=3236586&&#post3236586
Quoted from one of the posters: This is a BUG!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.p
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.p
TiVo recognizes the Macrovision flag but there have been NO cases of a network or studio actually utilizing it.
Even HBO whose websites says OnDemand stuff can't be DVR'ed... well, I could TiVo my OnDemand stuff just fine. I did all the time. That was before 7.2 and I don't have HBO any longer but it did work.
Again - this is a BUG. Neither the local station or FOX intended for this syndicated rerun to be flagged like this.
Are bug bad? Sure. But it's not worth getting all up in arms at TiVo about.
... you'll see that this was a bug found by someone using their TiVo over antennae, not cable, which could have distorted the signal.
The whole macrovision flag is for PPV shows, not regular shows.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I use ReplayTV and have never had any problems with content protection. There is even a great open source tool called DVArchive (at sourceforge) that lets one copy shows to/from the ReplayTV units and even stream content directly from the ReplayTV to any machine that supports HTTP streaming.
I highly recommend both of these products for the geek who wants a great DVR and the freedom to DivX content at will.
How many roads must a man walk down? 42.
http://www.magicitx.com/ has a prebuilt MythTV setup with a small form factor for about $700, with options for more memory, larger hard drive, and remote. It uses the universally accepted Hauppage PVR250 hardware encoder (I own a 350 and a 150 and they work with all freeware pvr software I've found). You will need an external infrared sender to work with digital cable or satellite receivers.
(I am not affiliated with magicitx in any way, just found a link to them on ebay.)
I think we'd all enjoy a nice cold beverage. -David Letterman
Try this out
http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=44
You can buy the box from them, or build it yourself (as I am doing).
I have two ReplayTVs. I don't have any of the problems you read about with TiVo--and I can skip past commercials, not just fast-forward. I don't understand why TiVo is more popular that ReplayTV. It is certainly is not as good.
"Re:MythTV Doesn't Do HDTV"
uh yes it does... HD-3000 PCHDTV
And affordability varies on what you want to do... but if you have an existing reasonably spec'd spare PC... a 90 dollar hauppauge wintv pvr 150 hardawre encoding card with remote/ir blaster is pretty reasonable. Especially if you don't have to deal with recurring subscription costs.
although the real reason to build a DIY PVR is NOT to save $$$, it's for freedom/control over your box and content and the flexibility to add functionality without waiting for Tivo to ask permission from content providers/FCC first (e.g. tivo2go). Commercial flagging/deletion, DVD ripping, cool parsing of closed captioning, etc...
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
On some programs, notably syndicated shows, a red flag appears to indicate that the copyright holder has requested that TiVo devices not save a program past a certain date
So if that NFL game is flagged, "keep until I delete" won't work.
Yesterday evening I watched the first "Q" episode, and on Monday I watched "Bread and Circuses".
Last week I watched my tape of Quantum Leap (the first episode where Sam leaps into the Jet Fighter tester).
Haven't watched broadcast television for about three years ever since I got tired of Fox overrunning it with sports.
I watch the 8 discovery channels mostly and record the stargates/BSG on fridays. You know - so I can watch them during the week without commercial intruding?
And to be fair - I have bought all the stargate series on DVD -
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Not really.
I am saying I don't expect THEM to modify the boxes and take things away from me after I bought their product, and expect me to continue paying them.
Luckily I didn't buy their product.
.
... Not a network... and show the files in a Samba share.
Make up your mind, do you want a network or not?
In the meantime, check out knoppmyth.
--Phillip
Can you say BIRTH TAX
The only problem is that the subscription is tied to the box, not the owner. that's why I stick with monthly subscriptions.
It is also why my five year old box, that I paid $199 for, is still worth at least $199.
I've replaced the two moving parts (fan and hard drive) and just bought a new remote... good investment as far as I'm concerned.
And a hell of a lot cheaper than the monthly fee over the five years! (I paid $199 for lifetime sub)
And... I also have a Myth network to catch the stuff I want to record while the Tivo is busy or perhaps save a bit longer. As far as I'm concerned... it (Tivo vs. Myth) isn't an either / or situation.
--Phillip
Can you say BIRTH TAX
TIvo uses a custom filesystem for video, it's been "figured out", by Tridge if I remember correctly, but it's certainly their own creation. The actual Tivo linux OS piece is on ext2 or hpfs, can't remember which exactly.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
REPLAYTV SIGNED THE SAME MACROVISION LICENSE AND THEREFORE WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE EXACT SAME RESTRICTIONS.
If anyone is avoiding TiVo because of this, well you sure as hell do not want to get a ReplayTV either. It seems the only option is to buy or build a Myth box.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
You're right and wrong.
Copyright law is involved even when you're doing things in your own home.
However, there is no law that mandates this particular action. Recording any copyrighted material from TV for any amount of time is infringing, unless the particular act of recording in question is exempted somehow, e.g. as a fair use. (n.b. that fair use depends, each time, on the circumstances; there is no blanket rule permitting time shifting, etc.)
If it is exempted, then there's no time limit. If not exempted, then you'd need permission from the copyright holder, with whatever restrictions they'd include, if they even permitted it at all.
In any event, it's none of Tivo's business, and they shouldn't be involved. The reason is just that they're knuckling under.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Not a pre-built MythTv, but a pretty similar pre-built device can also be found here http://www.interact-tv.com/
The second problem is that if you sell a service, especially when you sell a lifetime subscription to that service, it is unethical and probably illegal to remove parts of that service from customers who have already paid.
From the Tivo terms of service:
It's actually been over two years since I subscribed to Tivo (through DirecTV) so I don't know if this is a new addition or not. In fact DirecTV probably had its own version. But suffice to say that this is the agreement that (presumably) every Tivo user agreed to when they set up their service initially.
I'm not saying it's necessarily good, but... legally Tivo isn't doing anything that the subscriber hasn't agreed to let them do.
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
The lifetime subscription is still available. The only problem is that the subscription is tied to the box, not the owner. that's why I stick with monthly subscriptions.
PROBLEM is that the subscription is tied to the box? I see that as a MAJOR benefit. Say you don't want your TiVo anymore, ups the resell that's for damned sure. I'd sooner buy a TiVo off of eBay with a lifetime subscription for $300 than a new one for $99 with a monthly subscription. Of course it takes a couple years to make up the difference, but I see it as completely worth it..
I think in writing this I see your point.. You can't transfer your lifetime subscription to a new TiVo if you decide to upgrade.. but then, you can still pawn off your old TiVo (which you'd need a subscription for 2 TiVos if you kept it anyway) for enough to cover the lifetime subscription for your new box.. I don't see it as a downside, major upside for purchasing a used TiVo, or selling one, but not really a good or bad thing for if you want to upgrade..
Aren't you forgetting the Betamax decision? It set a strong precedent that recording for time-shifting purposes is non-infringing.
What TiVo collects, and what they do with it, are all spelled out in their TiVo Privacy Policy. TiVo does allow you to opt out of these collections if you want, by calling them and requesting it.