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Toshiba to Demo New Fuel Cell MP3 Players
virgil_disgr4ce tells us The Register is reporting that Toshiba recently unveiled a fuel cell based mp3 player. The pump-less fuel cell technology was first discussed about a year ago but Toshiba said not to expect the fuel cell players to hit the market any time soon. Toshiba, however, does hope that the players running off the fuel cell prototypes, and their methanol cartridges, will get their public debut at CEATEC JAPAN 2005.
Has anyone else here ever had exposure to 99.5% methanol? Nasty stuff. Toxic, and readily absorbed through the skin. I really can't imagine this being approved by any governmental agency. How about flying on an airplane with 150 or 200 methanol powered fuel cells? No thanks.
"The batteries double as a stinkbomb"
Maybe it's just a throwaway remark, but there is still a widespread perception that methane stinks.
Of course, it don't. The vile odour present in the domestic natural gas supply is due to the deliberate addition of a stenching agent such as an ethyl mercaptan. Of course, the purpose of the stenching agent is to alert people to the presence of uncombusted gas.
T&K.
Political language
I have held off on buying an MP3 player because I can't find one that supports OGG, has a radio in it, and gets good battery life. Assuming Toshiba puts one out that meets the first two specifications and has generous amounts of storage, I think I would look into this one.
Right now, I have a Sony ATRAC3 MP3/CD player. It gets 50 hour battery life on 2 AA batteries, and has virtually unlimited storage (as many 700MB CDs as I feel like carrying), plus it only cost $100 or so when it was purchased. Granted, it doesn't support OGG, but when I got it I didn't know about OGG.
In addition, I bought my laptop that I'm on right now from Toshiba Labor Day weekend 2003, and I've already decided I'm not buying a new one until Toshiba releases their new laptops that (according to the article I read a while back) charge 80% in 15 minutes with little discharge.
I also recall an article about a fuel-cell based laptop, lasted something like 15 hours on one fueling. Don't remember if it was Toshiba or another company.
Where are all these things? I've heard so much about them and I'm sure I'm not the only one anxiously awaiting them. Toshiba and any other companies need to hurry up and get these things out the door, as they will solve many of the biggest battery-related problems.
You're scared of absorbing methanol through the skin?
:)
Hmmm. You need to learn a little more, and stop worrying so much. For starters, you could take some college-level Chemistry and Biochemistry to learn how methanol is formed and detoxified within the body (yep, you actually get some methanol formed in the body...shocking!!!).
Then you could look at common spirits and wines to learn about the levels of methanol present in those!
Finally, you should stop worrying, because the level of methanol in the fuel cells isn't that high, and the amount you could absorb via your skin is laughably small. Your body can handle it - don't be such a worrywort
(I say this as a biochemist who commonly handles methanol all the time. It's really no worse than any other solvent if you're not into drinking it neat)
>>" ...but the cost of electricity is relatively cheap to the point of being free.
>Take an intro Economics course, really, you need it.
LOL! If someone needs an econ course it's you!
A Duracell Ultra AA alkaline battery can be bought for about $1. It delivers 2.3 watt-hours. The power company charges something like 10 cents per kilowatt-hour. For $1 you get 10 kilowatt-hours from an outlet- as much as you get from 4300 Duracell Ultras. From an outlet, 2.3 watt hours costs about 1/50 of a cent. On the scale that we're talking about, that certainly is "cheap to the point of being free." We're not talking about recharging a Prius. Even considering recharge inefficiencies, you'll be lucky if you manage to use a penny's worth of electricity over the lifetime of an AA rechargeable battery. Just leaving the recharger's wall-wart plugged in wastes more electricity than the rechargeable gets.
Per watt-hour, the energy costs associated with batteries- rechargeable or not- are several orders of magnitude greater than those of the cost of a comparable amount of electricity considered purely as a commodity. You're not really paying for the electricity with batteries so much as the portability and convenience. And with rechargeables, most of the cost of operation comes from degradation to the battery structure over repeated charge/discharge cycles. (Plus the environmental load from the cadmium when people don't recycle NiCads.) The cost of the recharge current itself is the most negligible factor as the GP correctly pointed out.
You're joking, right? Methanol is an ondinary alcohol from methane (CH4) just like ethanol is an alcohol from ethane (C2H6). Ethanol is alcohol 'as we know it' of course.
Indeed, methanol has somewhat of a bad reputation because it makes you blind, but it is FAR from difficult to get. As far as I know it is easily manufactured and a common by-product of fermentation of beers, wine etc. Apparently its effect is limited when mixed with (more) ethanol (present in drinks), I have heard (not sure) that if you go to a hospital with methanol intixocation, you are fed ethanol intraveinously to counter it. AFAIK the major causes of blindness are illegal distilleries (crooks selling 'bad' liquor), NOT people accidentally drinking a bottle of pure methanol.
Anyway, methanol is a very common household product, used for cleaning, degreasing, fondue sets... Ok, it is not safe to drink but neither is gasoline, cleaning agents etc.
"Cheap" is on the opposite end of the spectrum from how I'd describe current alkalines.
Shoot Pixels, Not People!
Methanol isn't too common a substance, partially because it is some nasty stuff.
Methyl Alcohol (Methanol) Oral rat LD50: 5628 mg/kg; inhalation rat LC50: 64000 ppm/4H; skin rabbit LD50: 15800 mg/kg; Irritation data-standard Draize test: skin, rabbit: 20mg/24 hr. Moderate; eye, rabbit: 100 mg/24 hr. Moderate. Investigated as a mutagen, reproductive effector.
Not much to worry about, really.
-- Cerebus
I've never, ever seen a model that burned plain methanol--unless it was designed to run on gasoline, then it would probably work. Most models burn some combination of nitromethane and methanol and it always has some good oil stuff in the fuel (caster and synthetic oils), and I sincerely doubt that a fuel cell is going to love that.