Toshiba to Demo New Fuel Cell MP3 Players

virgil_disgr4ce tells us The Register is reporting that Toshiba recently unveiled a fuel cell based mp3 player. The pump-less fuel cell technology was first discussed about a year ago but Toshiba said not to expect the fuel cell players to hit the market any time soon. Toshiba, however, does hope that the players running off the fuel cell prototypes, and their methanol cartridges, will get their public debut at CEATEC JAPAN 2005.

Comments

Why bother?

[republican gourd]

Why are they wasting their time on mp3 players? An mp3 player that can run for 35 hours (per the article) is not much more useful than an mp3 player that can run for 12 hours... but a laptop that could run for 12 hours instead of 4 hours (assuming a 3:1 payoff when compared to traditional batteries) would be incredibly useful.

Re:Why bother?

[Rob_Ogilvie]

How could a fuel cell really replace a traditional battery in a laptop? If I go on vacation with my laptop, will I need to take my gallon of ethanol with me instead of a tiny power brick?

I could see fuel cells augmenting traditional laptop batteries, but to replace them entirely we'd need to make recharging a bit more feasible.

Re:Why bother?

[Propagandhi]

I'm guessing they run into weight issues. Their flash player prototype for instance, weighs 78.5g. Compare this to a standard flash player (Shuffle=22.112628 grams, Nano=42.5242847 grams).

So if we stick with the linear relationship, you're increasing the weight of the gadget by 2-3 times, and that's probably not acceptable in the case of laptops...

Re:Why bother?

[cr_nucleus]

Why are they wasting their time on mp3 players?

Easy, they're going for something simple and small to limit the potential sources of problems. When it works fine, they're ready to go for more challenging products.

And one of the whole point of fuel cells is the time it take to recharge (actually refill). Even if it lasts just as long, being able to refill in seconds is a benefit. Problem is, you now need a reserve of whatever you fill it with :)

Re:Why bother?

[InfiniteWisdom]

That's some pretty ridiculous math. Firstly, you're comparing their flash player to one that's completely non-equivalent, seeing how the iPods are made by a different company, have different features etc. If you compared it to an equivalent player by Toshiba that was powered by LiIon batteries, you might have been off to a reasonable start.

Then you're assuming that the weight of the device is going to grow by the same fraction... the batteries of most laptops form a much smaller fraction of the overall weight than do the batteries of small portable devices.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not an entirely fair analogy, the majority of the weight for an mp3 player (especially a flash based one) is the battery. A laptop however has many more components that contribute to its weight. For instance an inspiron 9300 laptop weighs 7.9 lbs, of that a mere .88 lbs of it is the battery. (According to an ebay seller selling inspiron 9300 replacement batteries). If your analysis of 2-3 times the battery weight per unit is correct that would put the laptop at anywhere from 8.78 lbs to 9.66 lbs. Many desktop replacement laptops weigh that much now, so it is not an unreasonable weight. Granted lighter is usually better, but I know an awful lot of people that would carry around the extra 1.5 lbs for a laptop that would last for 12-16 hours. Just my two cents.

Re:Is it just me that I don't find this appealing?

[ByTor-2112]

I think the same thing every time that I read about some silly "fuel cell powered device" replacing existing rechargeable devices. I don't want to carry fuel cells with me, and I don't want to purchase them. I can always find a free or nearly free outlet to plug in to. All of these fuel cell researchers need to realize that if we a device doesn't already physically consume fuel, no one is likely to migrate to a device that does. How dumb can these incredibly smart people be!

Play Times

[Jeet81]

The play time according to the article is
35 hours for the smaller model and 60 hours for the larger HDD device

So that means refilling methanol every week. I think I will pass and stick to my Ipod as it recharges itself when I plug it into the USB port to change songs.

Biggest problem...

[Cyno01]

They lock you into buying stuff. Ok, it lasts longer, but you cant plug it into the wall when you get home and have it good for another 12 hours... you gotta go out and buy more fuel canisters.

Re:Is it just me that I don't find this appealing?

[Anonymous Coward]

How dumb can these incredibly smart people be!

Not as dumb as you obviously. The big catch word in personal electonrics for he last 25 years has been "portability". Being attached to an outlet isn't too portable to me.

Re:Methanol

[Anonymous Coward]

if you do some legwork on the technology, you'll find that they're not using straight alcohol for fuel cells

If you RTFA, you'll find that they're storing methanol in a 99.5% concentration in the fuel cell and diluting it later in the process.

Re:99.5% methanol

[HermanAB]

Hmm, how about flying with 50 tons of jet fuel? Not at all dangerous huh?

Re:Don't get too enthusiastic now...

[The Step Child]

Seconded. I've spilled worse things on myself while in lab. Methylene chloride, hexane, ether, chloroform. I've gotten a nice whiff of nitrogen dioxide (and if you live in the city, you've gotten your share also). Like a famous toxicologist said, "the dose makes the poison." If you're getting a couple drops of the low concentration stuff on yourself, you should be okay. Besides, Toshiba isn't that stupid, they probably have some kind of easy system that makes it difficult to expose yourself to the chemical.