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MP3 Company Refuses to Pay Swedish Copyright Levy

praps writes "Swedish MP3 player manufacturer Jens is to be hauled before the courts for flatly refusing to pay a charge designed to compensate copyright owners whose music is copied to a different format for private use, reports news site The Local. Jens says the surcharge, administered by Copyswede, is unreasonable and that "it's not our problem that the record industry hasn't come up with its own solution". Apparently Apple doesn't pay it on their iPods either."

28 of 296 comments (clear)

  1. Go Jens! by yotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I need some good earbuds, maybe I'll buy some from you.

    1. Re:Go Jens! by aussie_a · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So they design a shiny label saying "Jens of Sweden" (a retarded name if I ever saw one, and I'm a Swede) which they slap on a bunch of Korean players - is that really worth 30-40% higher price for you?

      No, but supporting a company that upholds a person's ideals is a good reason to pay the extra 30-40% (and when we're talking earbuds, that 30-40% aint much).

  2. Hmm.. just maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful
    Am I smelling a revolution here? Are we finaly so fed up with crap that we dare resist? First the single mothers now this Jens guy...

    "And I pray
    Oh my god do I pray
    I pray every single day
    FOR A REVOLUTION"

    Four non blondes

  3. To take Jens' side. by Alsn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The ridiculous thing about this whole deal is that the law specifically states that its supposed to be compensation for "private copies" which before this law was just as legal as it was after. The only difference is that all of a sudden makes of movable media(cds, casettes, dvds, etc etc) was supposed to pay extra to the copyright owners because they felt people should have to pay to be able to use their music how they wanted.

  4. Complete Bullshit by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My opinion is that such a levy is complete bullshit. It is under the guise that it is meant to compensate an industry that MANUFACTURES NUMBERS to make it seem like piracy is their single loss of revenue, and that is more than questionable. I mean, is there anything in place making Toaster makers pay a fee for all of the hoodlums stealing loaves of bread? No. And this is equally as stupid. I applaud someone standing up to this garbage.

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Complete Bullshit by cronius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As stupid as it is, I would actually accept it if it means distributing copyrighted material would be legal. But they're getting it both ways (it's illegal, AND we're supposed to pay for those who don't follow the law, regardless what we do ourselves) and that's just stupid.

      I'm talking from a consumers point of view, I can see why a company wouldn't like it either way.

      --
      Life is Reality
    2. Re:Complete Bullshit by Xarius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (it's illegal, AND we're supposed to pay for those who don't follow the law, regardless what we do ourselves)

      We pay taxes which fund police, fire and ambulance services, even if we aren't responsible for the law being broken, the house burning down, and the crazy cat-ladies stroke.

      Sucks though.

      --
      C17H21NO4
    3. Re:Complete Bullshit by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, you've got it turned around. You pay taxes so that there will be a police department there if your house gets broken into, a fire department if it catches on fire, an ambulance service if you fall down the stairs, etc. That is to say, you pay taxes because these are all things which you might one day have a need for, and when you need them, you really NEED them. Also they're arguably (and yes I am aware that this point could go either way) not things the free market would adequately provide.

      You are paying for the service before you use it -- just like you'd pay for a tech support contract, or insurance, basically.

      These copyright "taxes" are completely different in that they place the consumer in the role of the criminal, paying damages for a crime they haven't committed yet, under the assumption that they are either complicit or somehow involved in it. There's not any good natural or common law analogy that I can come up with for it, which makes me suspect that it's probably unreasonable.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    4. Re:Complete Bullshit by bleckywelcky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's bullshit. I haven't downloaded any copyrighted material from labels in the RIAA, yet if I want to have an MP3 player to carry around my free Indie music, I have to pay the RIAA? About all you're saying with your post is that you are admitting you steal music, and you want everyone else to pay to legitimize your theft.

  5. International Legal summary? by interiot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there a list somewhere on the web that hilights all the crazy quirks of copyright law in each country? It seems to be a very unresolved area of law, with plenty of opportunities for hijinks.

  6. Why can't we let market forces rule here? by confusion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look, if these crazy governments (US included) would stop butting in, the record labels that hold on to their current business models would go out of business, but some other, more creative model would come into being. Hell, one of the big record companies themselves might even be the innovator.

    Jerry
    http://www.cyvin.org/

    1. Re:Why can't we let market forces rule here? by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, as some brilliant person once said, "P2P won't kill the music industry, only the current one."

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    2. Re:Why can't we let market forces rule here? by Suzumushi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I could make a similar argument that I shouldn't have to pay a large portion of my real-estate taxes, because I don't use the school district services in any way, but then all the kids couldn't go to school because we couldn't afford it. It's true.

      However, the point of little to no government involvement in this issue has one remarkable difference to the issue of government involvement with roads, transportation, health care and education, in that it is NOT a necessity of the populace. This concerns a product being sold to customers, not a necessary infrastructure. As some have said, the only reason that the government is involved at all is because the RIAA/MPAA and other organizations world-wide have tremendous lobbying power, not because our elected officials have any care as to what is the best for their people. I'd be willing to bet that anyone with any power in the FCC gets free cable and anyone with any power over legislation concerning copyright and the DMCA gets a lot of free movies and other kick-backs.

      What we are asking for is Self-Reliance. The ability to have the market determine what we want, not the government. As long as the government continues to stick it's nose in this business at the behest of the media conglomerates, there will be conflict. That is unless you're a democrat who thinks that we should just pay lots of taxes and have the government decide whats best for us. (I just had to stick that in for the republican remark!)

    3. Re:Why can't we let market forces rule here? by IdleTime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not as long as politicians, as they are here in the US, are "elected" by corporations. Without these corporations "contributions", they would never have been elected or reelected.

      Anyone who thinks politicians care about people here in the US, need their heads examined.

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    4. Re:Why can't we let market forces rule here? by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember, the laws that create Intellectual "Property" _are_ government butting into the market. Supposedly, for the greater good. I don't see it. I see the system gamed for the enrichment of individuals who have contributed to nothing but the gaming of the system (e.g. Lemuelson, BSA).

      I don't see the good in the government fighting the production of alcohol. I don't see the good in the government fighting a war on abstract nouns, e.g. Poverty, Drugs, or Terror.

  7. Bravo that company by mrRay720 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Imagine that - not wanting to pay money to a corrupt industry that wants payment from everybody both innocent and guilty, just in case thery do something wrong.

    Imagine if the laws the media industry 'buy' were appplied to other products. Knife manufacturers would face life imprisonment (or the death penalty) incase someone buying one of their knives killed someone with it, Ford and Honda executives would be locked up on the off chance that one of their cars was used as a getaway car, and makers of mobile phones would face a free holiday in Gitmo because a nutter could use one of their phones to remotely detonate a bomb.

    You go music industry, I love you and your purchased laws and taxes!!

    1. Re:Bravo that company by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Imagine that - not wanting to pay money to a corrupt industry that wants payment from everybody both innocent and guilty, just in case thery do something wrong.

      This is actually not a piracy levy, but a privacy levy. It's a fee taken to compensate artists from the legal rights you have to make personal copies.

      Here's the deal: Copyswede's Blank Tape Levy [english]

      IMHO, that only makes it even more freaky. It's a legal right we have, and they seek compensation for that right, and the gov't blindly think they can do so? I don't understand how they can have legal support to do this. Note this is not about the gov't collecting levies, it's about a commercial organization. They call themselves a "co-operative economic association".

      But regardless the intent, it's ridiculous to put a levy on... blank records... in my opinion. They have no clue what I do with them, which ones I use to backup work on, to send digital photos to my family on, etc. Am I supposed to pay for my own copyright here? Get rid of your hands on my work!

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  8. Free mp3's by nuggz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hope these companies can prove there are enough free mp3's and paid mp3/wma services available that such taxation isn't required.
    Secondly if the CD is protected by the music industry obviously that CD didn't get copied and they aren't entitled to any compensation.

  9. Good for Jens by Bob3141592 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Making hardware companies pay fees for acts which may or may not be committed by people they cannot control is nothing more than a government subsidy to a private enterprise. The media companies have a reputation for screwing the artist and screwing the public. Now they want to screw other private businesses with a preemptive restraint of trade.

    I sat let's make the media companies pay for all the actual and potential hearing loss that comes from listening to too loud music. That ought to bankrupt them pretty quick. Let's hear their arguments against that! Rediculous as that is, it's exactly what they think they can do to everyone else.

    --
    In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
  10. Stupid laws still apply, Jens by jurgenaut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, the Swedish extra tax for storage is stupid. check
    Yes, copyswede is a lobbyist organisation. check
    Yes, the law is horrible.

    But opposing the law on the grounds of "it's a stupid law" isn't the very best of moves. It gives a very bad impression of the company, that somehow the law does not apply to jens company. At least, here in Sweden, that sort of thing is frowned upon.

    Jens is only trying to attract customers by using populist tactics. He tried to file a company called Superhero Jens AB, but the name was denied.

    1. Re:Stupid laws still apply, Jens by sqlrob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What they are doing, provided they are willing to suck up and deal with the damages under the law, is the essence of civil disobedience.

    2. Re:Stupid laws still apply, Jens by Monkelectric · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "Yes...You... The retard in the back with the stupid question!?"

      Opposing "stupid" law is the very essence of democracy (yes i know sweden only barely resembles a democracy). Yes they are getting publicity. Yes they are doing the public good. They probably are also trying to eliminate the single most costly component of their products. A tax which by any stretch of imagination is unjust.

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

  11. hypothetical question by yEvb0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If I buy a CD, and it becomes lost or damaged before I can make a copy, does it constitute a fair use for me to copy the same disc from my friend, or download the same songs to replace the ones that I paid for? Thoughts?

    --
    "Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
  12. Re:You cannot tax illegal activity by Bob3141592 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IANAL, but I thought you certainly could tax illegal activity. Isn't that what they got Al Capone for, tax evasion on the income from his illegal activities?

    --
    In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
  13. Re:Finally!! by shark72 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    " At last, one real-world company that fights back to the MPAA/RIAA/Copyright mongers!"

    Know thine enemy. Like similar national copyright collectives, Copyswede collects money on behalf of authors and performers. None goes to the RIAA, not even as an intermediary.

    This is vitally important for everybody to understand if they subscribe to the general philosophy that artists are the good guys while record companies are the bad guys.

    --
    Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
  14. Re:Interesting quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    In most countries with copyright law, people already have the right to make copies of copyrighted works FOR THEIR OWN PRIVATE USE without any renumeration necessary to the copyright holder. This consistitutes "fair use", or similar concepts with different terms. In other words, if my CD gets scratched up and I want to copy it to a computer, filter it, and put it onto a new blank to try to recover it, I'm supposed to have that right. I've paid for the product, I should be able to use it.

    It is only certain copyright holders that wish to prevent such reasonable actions by technically making such actions illegal, either through the necessity of circumventing DRM (and making that illegal), or by destroying "fair use" entirely. Ultimately, it's not good enough for media companies to have you pay for one copy of their product. They want you to pay again and again for every copy, even if you are only making a mix CD for your own use, or copying it in order to play it onto different media and equipment.

    For example, should it be illegal for me to copy my VHS copy of the original, "Han shoots first" Star Wars to DVD, in order to preserve it for my own use? I don't think so. I've already paid for it once. Only greedy copyright holders and unethical politicians would say "yes" to laws that would restrict such an action.

    And if copyright holders say, "No, no, of course we wouldn't stop that", then get off your ass and lobby to make distinction clear in law, and stop supporting broad laws such as the DCMA (in its current form), which does not change "fair use", but offers no way for people to legally exercise it if DRM happens to be in place.

    To answer the quote: I already fairly compensated the copyright owners when I bought the CD/DVD/etc.

  15. Bad. by Renraku · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is bad.

    Ten bucks says that the US companies are lobbying to jack up the fine (its not a tax, its a fine) or add another one.

    I can see that you're buying a car. Now, we've just added this drugrunning and speeding fines, because you Americans like to do those. That'll be $5000 extra, please. Oh, I know..you probably don't run drugs or speed much, but you MIGHT, so we have to fine you.

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  16. Analogy by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's not any good natural or common law analogy that I can come up with for it

    It would be like paying taxes for the police department, fire department and ambulance service, and then not getting help from them when needed.