Talking 'Bout A Revolution

Now that the weekend has passed, folks from all over have had their chance to speak up about the revolution behind the Revolution. Hugh Williams writes "The blokes at Next Generation decided to ask a bunch of game designers, media and analysts what they thought about Nintendo's new Revolution Controller. Some were a little skeptical. Others were downright in love." Additionally, Heartless Gamer writes "Heartless Gamer blog has initial comments up regarding the Revolution controller, but more importantly comments on the various reactions around the internet regarding the controller." Finally, LATRINE! writes "Whether you like it or not, the Nintendo Revolution is on the way. Brittlefish has an article discussing some of the challenges Nintendo will face in gaining acceptance in the market."

Comments

Lost Garden

[Apreche]

The genius over at Lost Garden keeps falling under the radar. He consistently has the best articles on the net. His piece on the revolution, and Nintendo in general, is no different. If you read one thing about the revolution, make it this.

Re:Lost Garden

[rAiNsT0rm]

Look I'm not trying to start an argument, but the person you linked to has no real grasp of what he speaks about. Sure, it all sounds logical and thoughtful, but most is simply not true. I've worked in the industry and have a very initmate knowledge of the media/marketing/numbers side of the game.

His attempt to claim that all of the onus is on the game players is very far off-base. Also, his talk about Nintendo and how they "create genres" in the early stages because it is the most profitable is so wildly untrue it stopped me dead. Nintendo may use a fairly (on the surface) basic look, but that is a sylistic artistic direction and is NOT "cheaper" than creating a game with ultra-realistic graphics. In fact, if you take the time to look, Nintendo tends to utilize EVERY hardware feature in every game as far as graphics are concerned. Also it is just plain false that to create the first in a genre is cheaper because it is simpler and has less content. Totally false. Innovation carries a much higher cost than simply following suit and making a few improvements.

I'm sorry but this guys work gets passed over because it is not backed by any credibility or factual insight. It is just my opinion, but a genius he is not.

Re:Lost Garden

[cowscows]

Is using EVERY hardware feature in every game what makes games expensive to make? I wouldn't think so. I'd hope that the hardware is there to make things easier for the developer. I think that the particular point of the Lost Garden writer was that the stylized look probably requires less artist effort, and that's where the savings come from. I don't work in the industry, but it's my understanding that that's where the bulk of the money for a big game goes. Content, not programming. It would certainly seem to me that creating all the textures for mario baseball was easier than creating all the textures for GTA: San Andreas. Most of the stuff in the mario universe is just plain colors.

I don't think he was talking about your average clone game, I think he was talking about the big names. Certainly EA isn't spending millions upon millions of dollars every year adding another layer of polish to their latest Madden installment, but that's not really what he was talking about. How long did it take for Valve to finish Half-life 2? How many dollars did they spend on that? It's a great game, no doubt, but it's really just an evolution of the original HL. It has much fancier graphics, meaning it needed much fancier models, and much fancier textures, and better sounds, etc. etc. I can imagine Nintendo reusing a lot of the artwork within their franchises, and instead using their time to work more on the ideas and the gameplay. Which, i think, is one of the reasons that their fanboys are at least forgiving, and often supportive of Nintendo's constant use of franchises.

Although as a sort of relevant note, Nintendo no doubt understands how cheap it is to do a quick update (see the pile of crap that is Donkey Konga 2). So they do do that too sometimes.

cradle/shell

[muyuubyou]

Maybe if anyone mentioned the cradle/shell, many more people would consider Nintendo's controller less suicide...
Linky:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html
I wonder why I had to find this info by chance, considering all the coverage around this.

Re:cradle/shell

[justforaday]

Thanks for the link. I've been looking for something about the shells. However, something people should note: the picture in the IGN article is a mock-up made by IGN. It is in no way the real thing.

Re:cradle/shell

[Irish_Samurai]

OK, this makes way more sense. I haven't been keeping up on the Revolution very much as I usually wait for the fandom and speculation to settle down before I begin to do research.

My first thoughts on that remote were:
"That's pretty damn cool. I wonder what a lightsaber game would be like with it."

My second thoughts were:
"How the hell am I going to play an action game with that? I don't think anyone is going to develop for the system with those restrictions."

This cradle just alleviated my fears. I have shyed away from Nintendo since I got burned on the 64, but if this lives up to it's potential - it will get me back.

Whether it works out or not....

[TheBrakShow]

I applaud Nintendo for actually innovating. There is so much new technology out there and most of it is going untapped. I think the concern is similar to that of people's issue with the DS. Is it gimmicky for the sake of being gimmicky or is it really something special?

Odd people quoted in Links

[smbarbour]

In the second link, what they thought about Nintendo's new Revolution Controller , scroll down the page and find the comment from Chris Melissinos, who apparently is the Chief Gaming Officer for Sun Microsystems.

Since when did Sun have a games division?

Sun?

[Tim Browse]

From TFA:

Chris Melissinos
Chief Gaming Officer, Sun Microsystems

Chief Gaming Officer at Sun Microsystems? That's got to be one cushy number. Sign me up for that.

Then again, I suppose crappy Java games for mobile devices don't just write themselves! :-)

Re:my plan

[Meagermanx]

That's what I'm gonna do too. I'm gonna put up a flyer on my campus bulletin board offering 40 or 50 dollars plus more for games/extra controllers once the 360 comes out. I'm planning on using wording like this:
"Need money for drugs, alcohol, prostitutes, or gas? Sell that old, outdated XBOX your parents bought you!"
Hey, I indirectly got a GBA from a girl who wanted drinking money. Best $10.00 I ever spent.

Controller Intimidation Factor

[siegesama]

Yes, it looks like a DVD remote. Which is a good thing for most non-gamers because it is familiar.

This argument is driving me crazy. Are there really people out there who look at a video game controller and say "oh my god, that's so scary, I cannot possibly fathom it! run away!!" Maybe. Are these people capable of playing a video game, even with the simplest of controllers? Doubtful.

Humans are fantastic at mapping thought to motion. Typing, playing musical instruments, walking, dancing, swimming, driving a car: give us feedback for a minute motion, and we learn bloody fast.

I'm fine with using spatial mapping as a controlling scheme, it sounds awesome. But stop pushing it like they're trying to lure all of the retarded monkeys they can possibly find into gaming with the magic non-scary stick.

Re:Controller Intimidation Factor

[cowscows]

I think it makes perfect sense. My mom wasn't terrified of the gamecube controller, but she couldn't manage to play any games that required you to use more than the thumbstick and the A button. So she could play Mario Kart at least halfway competently pretty quickly, but she'd get frustrated with almost immediately. And forget something like Metroid Prime.

Even I get frustrated sometimes, and I've been playing plenty of video games for almost twenty years. It took me a couple hours to get comfortable with the controls on Halo 2, and i still hit the wrong buttons often enough. It's entirely complex, and if you haven't built up the muscle memory over time, it's got to be overwhelming.

I am capable of using a controller with a whole bunch of buttons, but I'd rather not. There's nothing immersive about it, it's not particularly fun. I think Nintendo's really got a great idea here, and if the implementation is solid, it'll be a ton of fun. And that'll make people less afraid of it. Even retarded monkeys like to have fun.

Re:Controller Intimidation Factor

[Headcase88]

On top of this, the remote control shape just makes sense; it's easy to point with. Try pointing a current-gen controller around, you won't get very far. Why are remote controls shaped the way they are? Because that's the best way to design a one-handed controller. (Of course the Revolution controller is smaller than most remotes for what should be obvious reasons).

Re:Controller Intimidation Factor

[Otter]

Are there really people out there who look at a video game controller and say "oh my god, that's so scary, I cannot possibly fathom it! run away!!"

You bet. Lots of them.

Are these people capable of playing a video game, even with the simplest of controllers?

Of course they are. One might certainly ask how much money is to be gained from those people (mostly 30 and over) regardless of the simplicity of the controller. But there are plenty of non-moronic people who find a Playstation or XBox controller intimidating

Humans are fantastic at mapping thought to motion. Typing, playing musical instruments, walking, dancing, swimming, driving a car: give us feedback for a minute motion, and we learn bloody fast.

Yeah, it's not like anyone has ever looked at a piano and said "Gee, that's too hard to learn." Look at all the "musicians" who have embraced "mash-up" crap as an alternative to learning a real instrument. Are they all "retarded monkeys"? OK, they are, but nonetheless there are non-morons who are scared off by overly complex gaming.

Re:Controller Intimidation Factor

[LKM]

Are there really people out there who look at a video game controller and say "oh my god, that's so scary, I cannot possibly fathom it! run away!!"

Uhm. No. But lots of people don't want to play games because they have never used a controller and are afraid of embarassing themselves. Seriously, modern controllers are not easy to learn. If you started out on, say, the SNES, moved to the Playstation and eventually to the PS2, you never had to learn a lot of new stuff. But somebody picking up a Gamecube controller who has never had a controller in his hands right now needs to learn a heck of a lot of stuff right away.

First of all, there are three "direction controllers" on on a modern pad (the cross and two analog sticks). Then you have your normal assortment of buttons and between two and four shoulder buttons, some of them analog.

Whenever people are around my place, we usually play games like Mario Kart: Double Dash. Fortunately, you can have two players on one kart, so experienced players can help out new players. But even so, if you want to, say, switch position after the first lap, it's confusing. "Press the Z button" - "What button?" - "It's the small button above R" - "R???" - "Where your index finger is, R is for right, L is for left." - "There's no button where my index finger is!" and during all of this, they have to keep controlling the game.

Lots of people just go "Oh, you play, I'll just watch, I'm too bad at games.".

Having a controller like this will make it a whole lot easier to get into gaming.

It scratches an itch, a big itch

[rAiNsT0rm]

The Revolution is being looked at and covered as if it is a direct competitor to the 360 and PS3, it isn't. In the battle for dominance Sony and MS have ceased innovation and lost focus on the huge market for videogames. To crush the other they need to focus on a narrow market, and it has narrowed considerably with the 360 and PS3. This is a bad move, no matter who you are a fan of.

Notice the stories just today on the massive numbers of casual gamers and the demand for casual games? This is no fluke. This is the true gaming market. I know for us hardcore gamers it is difficult to see that the world does not revolve around us, but it does not. This market is booming, yet has no real major companies targeting them. In comes Nintendo. If you need 27 buttons and 3 analog sticks to feel "right" playing a game, then the Revolution is not for you... and it also isn't targeted toward you. *Gasp* a gaming company doesn't care about you? but your a "gamer" you wait in lines for a new release, you have every issue of CGW/EGM/whatever hardcore gaming mag, etc. Yep, you are not the target. Hard pill to swallow, and the cause of most of the ire.

I use the story quite often, but it is the perfect illustration of this. Last year one game/system outsold ALL videogame sales for the entire Christmas season... The small "retro" controllers that contain 6-12 games built in that hook up to a TV. They outsold ALL sales for the entire game industry! That is no small number, and those games don't feature eye-bleed graphics or complex strategy or gameplay.

People are clamoring for simple, fun, fresh, enjoyable experiences. Nintendo is looking to provide exactly that, while at the same time wooing back a lot of smalled developers and expanding their content to reach even the hardcore gamer. Since they are in no direct competition it affords them the freedom to make their own path and even innovate, fail, and try again all while still being successful overall. This is a position Sony and MS would kill for, so instead of looking at things though the normal gamer tunnelvision... step back and look at the big picture.

Re:It scratches an itch, a big itch

[rAiNsT0rm]

No, actually it has a LOT to do with it... and thanks for further illustrating my point. The Revolution aims to "cost a tenner" compared to $5-600 of the competition, again hitting the widest cross-section of gamer.

And for the record most of those units sold for $24.99-$39.99 in the States... about the same as the cost of a new console title.

Re:It scratches an itch, a big itch

[|/|/|||]

If you need 27 buttons and 3 analog sticks to feel "right" playing a game, then the Revolution is not for you... and it also isn't targeted toward you.

Well, I agree with most of what you said, except for the quote above. Maybe I'm wrong, since almost all of the discussion that I've seen disagrees with my opinion, but this controller looks like a "hardcore" gamer's dream come true. Seriously, compare it to a dual shock, for example. The dual shock has 2 analog sticks, a d-pad, and 10 buttons (i'm not counting start). In the standard, out of the box config, the rev controller has 1 analog stick, 6 buttons (counting the 2 on the nunchuck, but not counting start, select, home), a d-pad, and the new position/orientation functionality.

First observation is that it has less buttons. Does it make a difference? I don't know - most ps2 games don't use all of the buttons on the controller. Nintendo could add more buttons before release, and you could certainly have a "shell" or a nunchuck with more buttons. Assuming that they don't do those things, dock them a point for number of buttons. Dock them another one because the small a and b buttons don't look very accessable when holding the controller vertically. They might only be usable when in certain "modes" - like you jump in a vehicle and turn the controller on its side to use as a steering wheel.

Now the big difference - 2nd analog stick vs. position/orientation. Will it work? I say yes. In fact, I think it will blow existing control setups out of the water completely. There's a lot of speculation about new kinds of games that you could play with the controller, but it looks like the perfect controller for existing games - especially the FPS. I think a lot of people are hesitant to try something new, but this thing could revolutionize the console FPS. If you have a hard time picturing it, here's my imagination of how it would work:

1. Analog stick is WASD, basically your move forward/back/left/right/diagonal. Just like WASD on a keyboard/mouse setup, only analog.
2. You use the revolution controller to freelook, but it works differently from a mouse. Assume you have a crosshair on the screen. There's a region that takes up most of the center of the screen where pointing the controller moves the crosshair without moving your view. Your character's hand moves to point to the target, but the torso does not rotate.
3. When you point outside of that region (including completely off of the screen), your view rotates at a rate proportional to how far from the center you're pointing. The crosshair, however, never moves outside of the center region. In other words, you can still shoot at things on the screen while your view is rotating. This allows you to immediately point and shoot at anything on the screen, and also to circle strafe, which is an absolute requirement for the modern FPS.
4. The best part, though, and the huge advantage over the dual shock, is when using melee weapons. Hold down the melee button (say A, maybe - B is obviously the Fire button) and your controller is your melee weapon. You go from a 1 button control that makes your character take a swing, to a piece of plastic in your hand that you can whack somebody with!

I don't know if you can see it, but I can picture kicking some major ass with that setup... it's all in my imagination, though, so if you see any flaws in the setup then point them out. As you can tell I'm pretty stoked about the controller, but I'm not a fanboy that can't discuss the tradeoffs. It certainly has room to grow, but that just makes it that much more exciting - think of what this kind of controller could do in a generation or two!

The Best Reason for this Controller

[Prien715]

Is that it'll differentiate the console enough from the competitiion. Let's say I develop a game for the revolution which uses the new controller. Not only will it give me new freedom to design the game from an interface standpoint, but it'll also make it virtually impossible to port to any other console without a redesign of the game itself.

So while I'll be able to buy GTA4 for either X-Box 360 or PS3, Metroid Prime 3 will not only be a Nintendo exclusive, but other games by 3rd party developers will become de-facto exclusives since porting the control scheme will be so difficult.

Basically, Nintendo is making itself a unique product so that it's not so much competing as becoming a new good in the market.

jump!

[Anonymous Coward]

Chris Cross
Game Design Director, EA LA

he's gonna make you JUMP! JUMP!

Last comment

[MindStalker]

Wow the last guy was a moron. He stated
"However, the concern with something new like this is that it will appeal mainly to an enthusiast crowd and alienate the mass market who can be very reluctant to change their comfortable game playing habits."

Maybe I'm wrong here, but from what I've seen the mass market dislikes the complicated controller of the newest generation. This guy seems to have it all backwards.

A console for the masses

[RyoShin]

It's easy to tell that the most criticism against the Revolution is (and will continue to be) the controller- no longer the lack of Hard Drive, not supporting HDTV, but "Is that a fucking remote?"

A lot of people fail to see the big draw that a remote will have for the common plebian (read: non-gamer.) On the one hand, you have this massive controller, with 8 buttons, two joysticks, and more. Even I, a casual gamer, thought the Gamecube games would be hard to control with so many buttons and knobs (I was thankfully proven wrong.)

Using this remote, Nintendo will give people a reason to glance twice. A remote control is a familiar object- walk up to any person on the street, and there's a good chance they'll have used a remote. Since it will be a common object, with a different layout, they'll be whimsical. Initially, they'll pick it up and try to use the D-pad to play something. But as soon as they get angry and shake the controller, they'll understand just how interesting this new device is. (Obviously, there will be motion instructions by the demo, but, having worked in an electronics store, I can tell you that not everyone reads the instructions.)

It will be more less intimidating for new users to pick up, while giving us regular gamers a whole new (and quite innovative) way to plays games. Nintendo has it right this time.

The biggest gripe that I've heard from all sides is how it will play other games, or porting games to it (due to having to retool the interface to work with the NRV.) It's already been pointed out in a previous post, but this needs to be mentioned again: the controller will have a shell that will work like a "regular controller". (Note that the mockup on the bottom of that page is NOT THE OFFICIAL MOCKUP, but it gets the idea across.)

Not only will this remove the need for the Gamecube controllers for backwards compatibility (though there are GCN ports on the system,) but it will allow developers to port the games without having to do a lot of modifications, if they are that lazy.

Re:Two Words

[Digital_Quartz]

Actually, lawsuit is just one word.

Unless, perhaps, you were refering to some sort of suit, made of law. Like a "law jacket" and some "law pants".

Amen - My wife likes to play too.

[xplenumx]

I couldn't agree more - I truly wish that more companies out there would focus on the casual gamer. I absolutely love my Xbox, however my wife finds all the games to be too complicated, becomes frustrated within a few minutes of playing them, and never touches them again. It's a shame too since she adored the original NES and loves watching the Xbox games.

Just over a month ago we picked up a copy of Super Monkey Ball Deluxe (SMBD) and have fallen in love with the mini-racing game (think Mario Kart, but you're a monkey in a ball). The game is wonderful! My wife and I can play together (or more accurately, against each other), the controls are very simple to learn, and we can play in short bursts. We've played SMBD every night since we got it, and we're still having a blast.

So here's the problem, we can't find any other games like it - racing games are too focused on photo-realism and don't support the under-dog (it sucks if you're in second place and have to wait for the person in first to make a mistake - missiles and bombs make the game much more interesting for everyone involved), FPSs tend to have a high learning curve and shooting people tends to turn off potential gamers, and fighting games tend to go overboard on the gore and have an extremely high learning curve. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm seriously considering putting my Xbox in the closet and replacing it with a Game Cube (and Revolution when it comes out). I want to play games with my wife. My wife wants to play games with me. I want to have people over and be able to play games with them, even if they've never touched a console before. Seems to me, Nintendo is the only company that gets this.

Re:Amen - My wife likes to play too.

[rAiNsT0rm]

Couldn't agree more. I spent over 4 years covering Sony PS2 titles, and could never play one game with my girlfriend that she would enjoy (except for Space Channel 5, and Katamari Damacy) But she owned a NES and loves games. Even Katamari Damacy was a bit tough for her at times. So I gathered up a bunch of crap Ps2 titles went to Gamestop and got a GC, Mario Party 5, Puyo Pop Fever, and Donkey Konga 1&2... we have a blast. Mario Party 5 is great for a gamer/non-gamer match-up. Super Monkey Ball also. I've even come home to find she had been playing Puyo Pop on her own. The controller is her biggest problem though with the GC, she hates the analog stick and uses the D-pad when possible. She is not alone, nor unique in this respect and the Revolution is custom tailored for her and millions of others just like her.

Go for the GC and some non-gamer games and you'll have much more fun than a solo run through any 1-player game. I find myself dying to play the GC when I get home now, where my PS2 has had a layer of dust build up since Katamari Damacy lost it's luster with me.

Re:Two Words

[Anonymous Coward]

What would you wear under yout law pants? Legal briefs?