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Dell's Open PC Costs More Than Windows Box
fist_187 writes "In this article at The Register, they show thath Dell's Open PC costs more than a PC shipped with Windows XP. That's right, getting a PC with a blank hard drive costs more than the same hardware running Windows XP." From the article: "As it turns out, Dell's sales staffers have a secret web page for the product that you can't find with normal search tactics. A kind lass we'll call 'M' pointed us here. On this site, Dell presents a couple different versions of the mysterious E510n. The lowest-end system starts at $774 and is exactly like the boxes above - including the free flat panel - except it has 512MB of memory. For some reason, Dell told reporters that the box starts at $849 - yet another one of the odd sales tactics surrounding this "open source" kit. [Following the publication of our story, Dell raised the price of the PC back up to $849. See the sales pages below for the original $774 price comparisons.]"
Must be that new math I keep hearing about...
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
So.. the logical thing to do is buy the PC with Windows and then resell the Windows license. Or is that not allowed?
chown -R us ~you/base
Computers with Windows XP are stuffed to the roof with trialware and services that kick back the cost. Those with empty hard drives are, well, empty. What's so hard to grasp here?
My other Beowulf cluster is... er...
Seriously. If there's one company in the world which would win an obfuscated price contest, it's Dell. Circuitous menus that seem to simultaneously tweak prices and options depending on who you are and where you're from is deeply suspect. You never get the actual price on anything until you're ready to punch in your credit card number. Advertised prices are pure fiction. I cannot imagine any reason for being so inconsistent about pricing. It's dishonest. I no longer do business with them.
No, it's been that way for a while. The FreeDOS boxes have always (as long as I remember) been more expensive than an equivalent box with XP.
I don't know what kind of deal they have with Microsoft to make that happen, but I suspect it is more than just the AOL and McAfee add-ons that they can bundle with XP.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
The PC with the blank hard drive appears to ship with a combo cd/dvd-rom and a fax modem. The PC with windows does not list these features.
Dell's business units are so odd. You can go on their web site and find 3 different prices for the exact same thing depending on which unit you go in, and I mean home, small business, and large. I have ordered from all over that site for personal stuff, it cracks me up sometimes. I would be interested in why that happens. I have asked our Dell rep at work, but he couldn't really give a good answer either.
I kid, I kid.
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You'll never figure out Dell's pricing policies for any given piece of hardware. It will change randomly from moment to moment. Just when you think you know how to get the best deal, they'll completely change on you. Hell, we effectively resell Dell PCs, and even *WE* can't get a straight price from our rep. Fuck, their corporate customers who buy thousands of units a year don't know how much a PC will cost until they actually get charged for it.
Personally, I use their pricing changes as a source of entropy to help generate cryptographic keys.
Or, if the logic of Dell is to prevail, you can sell blank versions of the same CDs for a slight premium, like $275.
Lets face it a PC with XP is anybody's. I wonder if this system comes in a white box to indicate its virgin status.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I buy ~250k/year of Dell PCs. We do not have the time, staffing or patience to sort through myriad component problems. They are all Dell Optiplex and Latitude machines with three year warranties and Complete Care. If it breaks, it's Dell's problem. We just don't have time for anything else. If some shop has the time to screw with this stuff, they have too many IT staff and are pissing away money for nothing.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
One Page ad free version of article:
_ pc/print.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/06/dell_open
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
It doesn't matter. First sale doctrine says you can re-sell anything someone else has sold to you. That includes your software, no matter what some silly sticker on your computer says. The only party facing any restrictions is Dell; their contract with Microsoft says they have to bundle the cheap OEM version of Windows with a computer and not sell it separately. The user is free to do with his copy as he wishes.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
Even though Windows has a lot of cost - it adds negative value.
Since Dell (and any company looking to please its customers) will price things based on the value the customers receive, it makes perfect sense that they have to compensate the end user for the negative value Windows inflicts on them (pain, grief, anguish, suffering).
(seriously, however - On the Windoze box there's a bunch of third-party crap that Dell was paid to put on there - I know, I worked for a company that paid OEMs to pre-install crippleware in the hopes for upgrading -- and in effect subsidized the windows boxes. I suspect this is what's happening, and Dell's just passing on the subsidy).
So couple of reasons. One is simple: The DMCA. Your OEM copy of Windows will not work on a non-Dell box. To make it do so, you have to modify it and such modifications would violate the DMCA. Though I disagree with the law it currently is the law and thus if you violate it you can be subject to criminal charges.
The other is that even without that, software is kind of special. When you use software, you actually make a copy of it to your computer, something not necessiarly permitted by copyright law. Thus the permission comes in the form of an EULA, to which you must agree or you don't have that right. Well the EULA restricts this.
Is that legal? Well, maybe. Notice that game rental sotres don't rent computer games, just console games. The reason is, of course, concerns over copying. However console games can be, and are, copied all the time. So what's the deal? Well, likely game companies have sucessfully used the EULA argument to stop rentals. Can't be done with console games. No copying, thus no legal problems, and doctrine of first sale allows the rentals. However with PC games the copying happens, thus the need for EULA agreements, thus the problem.
Now like I said, all that's murkeir, might be that provision of the EULA isn't enforcable. However it's all moot, given the DMCA. You can't sell your copy of Windows using the provided key, it won't work, the key is Dell only. To modify Windows to use a different key is to break the DMCA which, retarded as it is, is the law.
I wouldn't ever consider building a PC for a client these days. Why build for someone as a consultant? You're just asking for trouble. Machines have fairly high failure rates no matter what brand or components you use. I'd rather point people to Dell so that when something breaks, I'm covered. =) Besides, with PC prices the way they are, how much can you save your clients anyway? Especially once you factor in the cost of your time.
I guess Microsoft Windows has really become a tax, when you see manufacturers doing similar things to what they do to avoid paying a duty and convert that to profit instead of passing the savings unto the customer.
For all we know, it's supposed to be the other way around, because Microsoft shouldn't be offering the nice and heavy OEM discount to Dell anymore since they're violating Microsoft law by not selling PCs exclusively with Windows. Of course, most probably Dell is doing this on purpose, the ulterior motive being to put some pressure on Microsoft or other PC manufacturers.
It's a strange world we live in...
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
My experience with Dell is that they have VERY tricky prices. Never buy something from Dell until you check all the coupon sites. Dell plays the game of having several divisions that price the same items differently. Prices sometimes fluctuate at each division more than once in a month.
Basically, I have found Dell to be a very abusive company. The only reason I would buy from them is if they have something not available from somewhere else, such as the 2405FPW 24 inch LCD monitor made by Samsung and BenQ.
If you do business with Dell, get a written warranty.
Be careful about Dell employees. They sometimes act for themselves and against the interest of their company. Talking to Dell is like going into a rough neighborhood.
My experience is that Dell is undergoing the social breakdown that is happening in other parts of the United States. One big example of the general breakdown is discussed in this transcript and video: Ike Was Right About War Machine. ("Ike" is former U.S. President and former Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in Europe General Dwight D. Eisenhower.)
See also Andy Rooney speaks out against the war in Iraq.
Is that legal? Well, maybe. Notice that game rental sotres don't rent computer games, just console games. The reason is, of course, concerns over copying. However console games can be, and are, copied all the time. So what's the deal? Well, likely game companies have sucessfully used the EULA argument to stop rentals. Can't be done with console games. No copying, thus no legal problems, and doctrine of first sale allows the rentals. However with PC games the copying happens, thus the need for EULA agreements, thus the problem.
May I direct you to Exclusive rights in copyrighted works. I quote: "(3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;" Nothing to do with copying. Nothing to do with EULAs. Not permitted by doctrine of first sale. Rentals are specifically named as an exclusive right. The console game companies want to license that right, the PC game companies do not. That is all.
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