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Software PVRs Becoming Tivo Killers
mikemuch writes "ExtremeTech's Jason Cross examines PVR software that runs on Windows -- applications from SnapStream, Cyberlink, and SageTV. With TiVo's mounting price hikes, service contracts, and 'features' like self-deleting shows, the DIY option is getting more appealing all the time." From the article: "All the major TV features you're used to with TiVo or Windows Media Center Edition are there--quick 30 second skip, padding show recordings (start early and stop late), a nice integrated guide with easy-to-read program info. The interface design isn't quite as good as either of those two other options, but it's one of the best we've seen in a Windows-based PVR application outside of MCE. If we had to pick an annoyance, it's that you can't seem to bring up the program guide or navigate the menu without stopping the live TV or recording that you're watching. TiVo plays the current TV program in the background, and MCE plays it in a small window in the lower left. We didn't miss it until it was gone."
When we have MythTV on the penguin, and even MythTV based LiveCDs, who honestly cares about running a windows PVR?
... tivo killer eh? ...eesh...
And with all the DRM and such on windows these days, who would WANT to run a windows based PVR? Ignoring of course that adding xp pro to some hardware pumps the cost of that PVR by $150
-GenTimJS
The average home user still can't be bothered to set one up though and will thus still want the nice shiny, straight out of the box option
Lets see a Tivo with 2 tuners which does it's job damn well 24x7 for $99 or a $1000+ dollar desktop which won't be up 24x7....
Don't forget the open source Freevo and MythTV software. I have just installed them on my (Linux only ) PC. Works great!
I don't have a TV (not since 1989) so TiVO like devices haven't interested me, but I've been keeping a casual track on the goings-on with TiVO, MythTV, and others.
But what confuses me is this: All the "new" features they keep adding, seem like a step backward to me, are these features forced upon you regardless of device you have, or are "1st Gen" model TiVOs and whatnot, valuable property for ignoring all the new stuff?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
With the ability, for years, to record straight to my HD I couldn't think of a decent reason to get a TiVo. Heck, I even get TV schedules and can pick and choose what to record, when and it came with my ATI video card. No funny business, telling me what I can and can't record, how long it lasts, what I can do with it, etc. It's all a bunch of MPEG files and plays as good as when I recorded it.
This all subject to change when everything goes HD.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The TIVO monthly fee is nothing in comparison to the time and aggravation it would take to set up and maintain a software PVR.
But then again I'm a Mac person, and I value things that just work.
The standard offerings by cable companies are pretty good. Cost $5 a month for standard definition PVRs or $10 a month for the HD PVRs.
That $10 a month for the HD PVR is practically untouchable. There just isn't any HD PVR solutions that are comparable. I am talking about more than just the over the air HD content that MythTV, et. all. can record. HBO-HD, InHD, TnTHD, Discovery HD, etc.
You can get cable boxes that output HD over firewire for recording purposes, but those firewire devices must respect the "Broadcast Flag" like signal the cable companies have implented. IE, you don't control the content coming from that port.
I am coming from an HD centric view point. SD centric viewers obviously have more choices and options available to them.
GBPVR, found here. It's great, free, and does some really cool features. It's definitely worth checking. I was actually prepared to drop money on a Windows software if I liked it. I don't give two craps about viewing photos, and I don't really listen to much music that isn't in the car or on my own computer. All I looked for was a good PVR that also lets me play downloaded videos/movies/ripped DVDs. I'll give the quick take on the ones I've tried:
1) Meedio/MeedioTV - buggy as hell. And slow. It's also very new, as in a few months (MeedioTV is, at least). Looks nice, though.
2) SageTV - the built-in video browser/viewer isn't that good. I found setting up plugins sort of a pain, and I could never easily get ComSkip to work well. Maybe it was just me. It's also kind of pricey.
3) BeyondTV - no videomedia component at all; you have to separately purchase BeyondMedia. Other than that, I like this one the best. Never really tried messing with any plugins.
4) GBPVR - pretty good as is, much better with the MyVideos plugin and some other plugins that are very painless to install. Downside is none of the skins, even the MCE port, are attractive at all. Also, sometimes there's a lag between hitting a key and getting a response. Few crashes, less than Meedio but more than Sage/BeyondTV (I have roughly one crash every 3 weeks, running 24/7). Have to renew your Zap2It profile every three months to get an EPG, which is kind of annoying. Installing ComSkip a breeze, and it will auto-ship commercials (BTV and Sage require you to press some button during commercials to skip them, presumably for legal reasons; I'm not sure with Meedio).
There you go. There are plenty of other ones, like Media Portal or Myth. I've never tried MCE, though, and most people I talk to like that best if for no other reason than the WAF (wife acceptance factor). Likely, my gf prefers software she's used to, and since I already showed her how GBPVR works, she's happy with it. As long as Desperate Housewives and The Daily Show are recorded, the GBP-vo stays.
I've built 5 MCE systems for others using 5 different hardware setups. They all work. The Wife Acceptance Factor necessitates it.
Every MythTV I've built has involved future phone calls. I've followed guides and tried various installs. When my home MythTV burped, it was hours of hitting forums to resolve.
I've been building PCs (Win & Lin) for 19 years. I love Linux, but MythTV is ill supported.
Funny thing... I had to call MS once for an MCE issue, and tech support figured it out in 10 minutes.
When a F/OSS PVR passes the WAF, I'll keep it.
Then just to have it said, I totally dig my Tivo. I think the price is reasonable, and the interface is fantastic. My wife set it up all by herself, which I assure you is a ringing endorsement for its ease of use. I suppose I could build a MythTV box (and it did occur to me to just do that), but I feel like I'm getting my money's worth and that Tivo deserves some reward for being the guys who effectively reinvented the TV for us. As long as they treat me fairly, I won't look to replace them with a DIY alternative. In short, I've got zero complaints and plenty of praise for Tivo, and it's welcome to sit on top of my entertainment center for as long as it remains a great product at a reasonable price.
:-)
So that's my commercial for Tivo. Feel free to fast-forward through this comment and expedite your return to our regularly-scheduled programming.
TiVo has no need to be worried about software-based PVRs. It's got the entertainment industry behind it on that one. We talk on Slashdot from time to time about the broadcast flag and how it would essentially prevent software-based (and especially open-source) PVRs, but what gets a lot less notice is that the same restrictions already encumber digital cable TV. Digital cable TV boxes output an analog signal at a lower resolution than HD, but for the purposes of software-based PVRs, that's where it ends. The HD digital signal is also an output option from a digital cable TV box, either through DVI or Firewire, but that signal is restricted by the 5C DTCP content "protection" system, which prevents a signal from being transmitted unless the listening devices are compliant.
Someone could probably come up with a software solution to defeat 5C, but with the DMCA in place and without the DMCRA to defend our rights, doing so would be illegal. Essentially, it takes open-source PVRs, which are legal and worthwhile in the analog domain, and puts them in the category of tools for piracy when used in the digital domain. And what's more, the DTLA (which administers licensing of DTCP) will, just like the DVD-CCA, never ever ever grant a license for someone wanting to build an open-source PVR.
TiVo has nothing to worry about from software PVRs - they'll die off slowly as the shift to digital HD continues. Then the entertainment industry can finish TiVo off at its leisure.
From the article:
Not really, unless you're a geek with too much time on your hands. The DIY option will become appealing when it's as easy to install and set up as any other off the shelf appliance. Until then, a DIY PVR a hobby.
TiVo, for all of it's faults, is still trivial to set up and use. In fact, it's so easy to use that my six year old child (who can barely read) figured it out. My wife and I were so happy with ours that we just purchased a second TiVo (the current rebate didn't hurt).
Charging sales tax is not a price hike.
Similarly, in our house, both my wife and I are the "customers" when it comes to TV hardware selection. People make a big deal about the WAF because it's expected that the husband can will put up with any crappy interface, as long as it works or it's cheap. For some people, that's true, but not for me. Yes, I'm better at figuring out complicated UIs than my wife is, but so what? I won't tolerate a bad UI any more than she will. Just because I *can* figure out a bad UI doesn't mean that I will.
Anyway, I'm not really sure what point I'm trying to make here, but I just wanted to add my 2 cents.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
That last statement you made is key. Support is a huge reason why an "appliance" makes more sense.
PVR is just a bad idea forced upon you by backwardsthinking providers. Why should everyone have to store the same episode locally, and make sure their expensive toy is programmed to record it? Video on demand have existed for a long time. You start your cheap setopbox, browse through the virtual video store, select a movie and watch it, instantly. What are the providers waiting for?
"As for TiVo, they still (for now) have one big advantage for me: I'm a DirecTV subscriber, and TiVo is the only device that will record the digital signal instead of the analog conversion. When DirecTV starts offering their own DVRs, I'll probably start using it instead. I love my TiVo and MythTV, but the most important thing to me is seeing what I watch in its glorious original quality."
That's the software PVR killer for me also, along with a couple other things:
No troll noticed :)
:)
I was "lucky" to run a very successful BBS starting at age 12. By 14 I was earning enough to move it to a commercial space, basically moving out from home.
I don't know how old you are, but I can give you some advice...
First, if you have even the slightest desire to marry some day, NEVER live with a girlfriend . Ever. Even a fiance. Live together after the wedding.
Why? Cohabitating can create very bad codependencies. You need to test your girlfriend's ability to make it on her own. Don't seriously date girls who live at home. Casual dating is fine with them.
Don't date girls in massive debt. Don't date girls with all guy friends and 1 girlfriend, or girls who say "I hate girls." Don't date girls that your friends don't like or that don't like your friends. Don't date girls who can only have a good time drinking or smoking up.
With that out of the way, it shouldn't be hard to find a girl who can handle your PC "addiction," or in my case, gadget addiction. The "no" girls I listed above will have a propensity towards jealousy -- over friends, family and even toys.
My lady met me when I had 7 PCs at home. Now I only have 1 media PC and 1 PDA, but not because of her. I'm bored with technology. I know she'd love a new notebook at home
If you can use your PC skills to strike out on your own (consult), she'll see value. Even better, build a tech bench with a power strip on a timer -- have it force you off between 5pm and 8pm for spouse time!