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TiVo Buries the VCR
Biul drolly writes "Apparently, TiVo's marketing department had difficulty with figurative speech in school." Specifically, News.com reports that TiVo held a mock funeral for the VCR this week. From the article: "While the death of VCRs and the VHS format has been long expected, it may be a bit premature to announce its arrival. Some 97 million households still have at least one VCR, according to the International Recording Media Association. However, TiVo's stunt does point out how fragile the VCR market is. Panasonic and Toshiba still make VCRs, as do lesser-known companies such as Lite-On, a Taiwan-based electronics manufacturer that sells its recorders through Wal-Mart Stores. But several manufactures have quit making VCRs. Brian Lucas, a spokesman for Best Buy, said that the retailer carries less than 10 models of standalone VCRs now. Ten years ago, it carried more than two dozen."
...the iTunes Video Store being played on Macs with Front Row. Not to mention commuters watching their favorite shows on the train in the mornings and evenings.
The CB App. What's your 20?
They still make them? Most media stores have relegated all their VHS stock to a single shelf at basement prices. I understand that many people still have VHS because the new-fangled 'tech' of the DVD scares them, but it's getting to the point now where you simply can't find tapes to play anymore. TiVo has the right idea on this one, although I hope they weren't saying they were the replacement for the VCR.
One might think considering how fast they are loosing the customer base.
Brian Lucas, a spokesman for Best Buy, said that the retailer carries less than 10 models of standalone VCRs now. Ten years ago, it carried more than two dozen.
Uh-huh. That's certainly a guarded comment (designed to make the death of the VCR look like it will occur much sooner then it will), how many models of VCR-included technology does the retailer have?
The amount of models isn't even that important, it's how many are being sold (and if they've made them last longer, even that isn't as important, although I doubt that they've improved it's longevity somehow).
The amount of people using alternate technologies to VCR's, while it's increased, is far from dominant in any market. And I'd hardly say that the VCR market is fragile. While VCRs with content are becoming less and less common, blank VCRs are still the most common (along with cheapest and easiest) method of recording content off the television. And Tivo can't expect to lead (or even be a major player) in the next generation of recording technology if they continue their trend of putting content disseminators before their customers.
In summary, the article twists facts to make VCRs look like they're going to become extinct much sooner then they actually will, and Tivo will need a HELL of a lot more publicity stunts if they continue with their current trend of kowtowing to content disseminators and hurting their customers.
if it's a matter of whether it skips or tracks, i'll take the tracking any day. there's much improvement to be done on current dvd pla¥ers. i'd rather take a tracked out scene rather than a scratched out scene. not that i'd switch to win95 before osx
My parents are finally decomissioning one of their two Betamax machines. Under both their TVs, they've had a VHS and a Beta for, well, decades. I bought them a DVD player for their anniversary two years ago, and they use it all the time, but it doesn't mean that they're just going to toss the VCR. Heck, they still get broadcast TV over a roof-top antenna!
For them to move to a new technology, it takes a pretty significant push. For them to actually ditch the old, it's got to be even greater. And with our aging population, I'll bet there are plenty of people--at least 97 million of them--who are more than happy to hold on to their old technology.
Parents? What about me, actually? I rarely use my VCR, but I still have it, and it works great for the rare occasions that I do record anything for later viewing. I sincerely doubt that I'll ever buy TiVo. However, I'd be happy to buy a non-subscription-based (i.e. per transaction) downloadable video rental and purchase system like Apple is doing with iTunes Video.
Videos, TV shows, podcasts, news headlines, sports highlights, political commentary. There's no reason why there should not be a huge market for a wide variety of downloadable content that traditionally would have gone over broadcast or cable.
The CB App. What's your 20?
I like my VCR. It records what I tell it to. I don't have to put up with any crap about shows deleting themselves, or not being allowed to record them in the first place. I don't have to connect it to a phone line. I don't have to pay any sort of subscription fee. It lets me skip through any bits I don't want to see. It was dirt cheap to buy and operate. I have unlimited storage capacity. I can buy movies cheaper than any DVD, and that fill the frame of my cheap 4:3 TV.
Explain to me again, why is the VCR dead?
I think this is just another nail in the coffin for VHS, with TiVo and DVD-Rs common methods for recording television broadcasts. I'd say that VHS is going to be around for as long as people have home videos and the like on tapes, or until it becomes unreasonable for stores to sell VCRs at rock bottom prices.
I think quite a large potential market here is the hybrid system (VHS/DVD player), which is what my mother bought because she was afraid of DVDs. Nowadays she rents DVDs only, if the movie is on VHS she is cautious to rent it because she knows how bad the quality will (most likely) be.
Our school has also readily adopted DVDs and purchased a bunch of Macs for video editing and DVD burning, although I personally prefer an XP machine with Adobe Encore, it's a sign of the times.
Although I personally prefer to get my movies delivered direct through my Bittorrent and P2P.
I'll subscribe to Slashdot when I see a month without a dupe, a typo, or an article the "editors" didn't read.
Everybody I know has at least a DVD player in their home, most actually having a DVD recorder of some form and most having a home theater PC.
Right. And I'm assuming most/everyone you know is either very technically minded or has a lot of money. Because I doubt very much that a DVD recorder is the norm in America, with most people having a home theater PC (what do you mean by that?).
Over here in Australia the norm is a DVD and a VCR, with some people having a home theater big screen (although it isn't common by any stretch of the imagination). I imagine that America has a lot more DVR's (the only one I know of being sold in Australia is a proprietry one developed by a cable company that may or may not work with normal tv or other cable companies), I can't see DVD recorders being the norm. I know Australia's normally a little behind America, but I doubt it's that far behind.
The more restrictive and pervasive DRM gets, I for one am sure to keep a good 'ol VCR and analog TV around. Not as good as DVD, or HD - but hell, it works just fine. I am a "quality" snob, but I will not surrender my Fair Use rights for that quality.
Enlightenment is a pipe dream. So where's the pipe?
Given Tivo's past mis-steps, it shouldn't be too long before we see Tivo's funeral.
The reason I've kept my VCR so long is that my older TV only accepts Coax input. That makes watching anything besides Cable impossible -- unless you use the VCR's built-in RF Modulator to hook up modern devices that have composite video (like a DVD player) to the A/V input. Just change the VCR channel to "Input" or "Line" and Viola! DVDs, consoles and Camcorders are now fully useable on the older but still functional TV.
>>Some 97 million households still have at least one VCR, according to the International Recording Media Association.
:-)
I have three....count 'em THREE VCRs still plugged in, taking power and giving me the time very reliably.
With 2 Tivos, when was the last time a VCR tape actually spun in one of these 3 decks? Over 3 years ago.
The tapes are loud, look like crap, and are unwieldy on the shelf. I don't even know where I buried the tapes.
Why don't DVD players display the time on the front? Then I could get rid of the clock/VCRs
OK, so does anybody actually know of a device that's basically just the equivalent of a vcr with a hard drive? Sure, having the super duper tv guide on the tivo is cool, but it's not $15 a month cool.
What I would ideally like is just something that I can set my own programs for, just like a vcr, and it records them. Then, I can watch them later; just like a vcr, except with a hard drive. I can set the time on my own, thank you very much, and set up my own recording times. If the tivo box allowed me to do that without having to pay their stupid subscription fee, then I would have bought one already. Sure, I wouldn't have their tv guide and preference matching and all that fancy shit, but I really don't care. If the tivo box would just let me set some start and end times to record, they would have made some money off of me.
And please don't say mythTV. Sure, it's nice and cool and open source and teh shizit and all that, but if I could just buy a ready-made box with a decent small remote for ~$250 or less, that would be great. I don't want to spend over $500 for a computer that I have to do a bunch of install crap on (and possibly have to build), and then not have a decent remote control for it; and $500 is the lowest realistic amount for a computer that can handle the video feeds decently. No, a remote keyboard isn't an option since that's another $50 at least just for that and it's big and clunky and looks weird sitting in your living room. All I want is a box that works like a vcr, but records to a hard drive, and that's small and just sits on top of my tv and has a normal remote. No big computer boxes please.
So, does anybody actually know of such a device? They sure don't exist at best buy. All they have is tivo and tivo clones. Somebody help me.
"God is dead." - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead." - God
That said, I simply couldn't live without my ReplayTV and Moxi DVRs!
-Jim
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My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
My home theater PC with SageTV, 3 tuners and 800GB buried my VCRs.
I doubt those figures of 97 million homes still with VCRs. Everybody I know
Ah, yes. The reliable statistical technique of a *not remotely random sample*.
has at least a DVD player in their home, most actually having a DVD recorder
Then "everybody you know" isn't remotely representative. "Most people" don't have a DVD recorder in their home, if by "DVD recorder" you mean a standalone device, and not just a recordable DVD drive in their PC.
of some form and most having a home theater PC.
And "most people" still don't have a "home theater PC".
VHS died years ago.
Oh, this is even more clueless. It's not that VHS is *now* dead.... it's that VHS died *years ago*.
Yes, everyone stopped using VHS in 2001 because standalone DVD recorders were so widely available and cheap back then.
I'm not American, nor am I familiar with the intricacies of the American market. Bearing this in mind, I can still confidently say that your assertion that "VHS died years ago" is complete garbage.
Amongst your very niche-y, cliquey, enclosed group of early-adopting, tech-obsessed friends, perhaps. But Tivo, despite its fanatical following, was (and still is) dwarfed by VHS usage.
Of course, VHS users are likely to be less serious tech-fans/TV-viewers, and thus aren't as "prominent" or "fashionable"; but I can quite confidently tell you that despite all the fuss over PVRs and recordable DVD in the past few years, both those technologies were still relatively niche products. Only *now* are they getting to the point where they will replace VHS.
Don't even think about pointing out the obvious; that DVD players are ubiquitous, and have almost killed off the pre-recorded VHS market (possible exception being childrens' stuff). Of course they are, and of course it has.
You were discussing the *death* of VHS, and until recently there has been no competition for *recording* material.
I think we're at the point now where VHS really *will* be eaten alive by a combination of DVD recorders (the most obvious replacement for VHS recording), and PVRs (the most *suitable* replacement for what VHS is still used for- time-shifting; most people don't want to keep the stuff they watch, so removing the hassle of changing media and keeping it all in one place is what they *really* want- trust me).
For example, my local supermarket now sells a basic PVR with integrated "Freeview" (terrestrial digital) tuner for UK £99 (about US $170). If I hadn't already had a Freeview tuner, or if I'd been into time-shifting enough to make it worthwhile, I'd have snapped it up.
I predicted in early 2004 that Christmas 2005 would be the "tipping point" when PVRs (not DVD recorders so much) would put the final nail in the coffin of VHS by taking over its remaining use. PVRs, I guessed, would be the runaway success this Christmas that DVD players were 3 or so years ago.
Well, I'm not 100% sure if I was right about Christmas, but if the tipping point isn't right now, I'm still confident it'll be in the next 4-6 months.
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The bigger story is how mutiple brands of hard disk recorders (whether Sky+ bought with your digital satellite service or standalone units) and, to a lesser extent, DVD recorders are rapidly replacing VHS. I've found that DVD recorders offer little more than VHS recorders really - whilst you tend to have a higher quality picture and random access, it's also slower to actually start recording on a DVD recorder and the media is, ironically, less reliable than VHS (very susceptible to scratches for instance).
Whilst Tivo is right that hard disk recorders are ushering in the death of VHS, they've got a lot of competition, particularly outside the US, where Tivo seems to have no presence at all now. Also, don't forget Net downloading, which doesn't require an overpriced "Windows Media PC" to do it either.
Despite it's terrible picture quality, VHS is still very useful for professionals during editing.
If you need to show the work in progress to someone, the fastest, cheapest and most reliable way is to output from your Final Cut/Avid to VHS.
Sure, you could make a DVD, but many editors don't know how to do that, and if they do know, they just don't have the time for it. The VHS is done in real time, and you can be sure there will be a player for it, and the tape will just play in it.
With a DVD, it will take at least twice the time of what you are recording, and maybe a lot more if you edit on older equipment, and you cannot even be really sure the disc will play on the DVD player that will be used. (I have received several self-made DVDs which play in my computer, but from which I get no sound out of my normal DVD player.)
...as long as Netcraft doesn't confirm it!
Good thing you picked up the story or the idiot who came up with this publicity stunt would be out of a job.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power