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TiVo Buries the VCR
Biul drolly writes "Apparently, TiVo's marketing department had difficulty with figurative speech in school." Specifically, News.com reports that TiVo held a mock funeral for the VCR this week. From the article: "While the death of VCRs and the VHS format has been long expected, it may be a bit premature to announce its arrival. Some 97 million households still have at least one VCR, according to the International Recording Media Association. However, TiVo's stunt does point out how fragile the VCR market is. Panasonic and Toshiba still make VCRs, as do lesser-known companies such as Lite-On, a Taiwan-based electronics manufacturer that sells its recorders through Wal-Mart Stores. But several manufactures have quit making VCRs. Brian Lucas, a spokesman for Best Buy, said that the retailer carries less than 10 models of standalone VCRs now. Ten years ago, it carried more than two dozen."
...the iTunes Video Store being played on Macs with Front Row. Not to mention commuters watching their favorite shows on the train in the mornings and evenings.
The CB App. What's your 20?
They still make them? Most media stores have relegated all their VHS stock to a single shelf at basement prices. I understand that many people still have VHS because the new-fangled 'tech' of the DVD scares them, but it's getting to the point now where you simply can't find tapes to play anymore. TiVo has the right idea on this one, although I hope they weren't saying they were the replacement for the VCR.
Meant to say that commuters will be watching on their new iPods...
The CB App. What's your 20?
One might think considering how fast they are loosing the customer base.
Brian Lucas, a spokesman for Best Buy, said that the retailer carries less than 10 models of standalone VCRs now. Ten years ago, it carried more than two dozen.
Uh-huh. That's certainly a guarded comment (designed to make the death of the VCR look like it will occur much sooner then it will), how many models of VCR-included technology does the retailer have?
The amount of models isn't even that important, it's how many are being sold (and if they've made them last longer, even that isn't as important, although I doubt that they've improved it's longevity somehow).
The amount of people using alternate technologies to VCR's, while it's increased, is far from dominant in any market. And I'd hardly say that the VCR market is fragile. While VCRs with content are becoming less and less common, blank VCRs are still the most common (along with cheapest and easiest) method of recording content off the television. And Tivo can't expect to lead (or even be a major player) in the next generation of recording technology if they continue their trend of putting content disseminators before their customers.
In summary, the article twists facts to make VCRs look like they're going to become extinct much sooner then they actually will, and Tivo will need a HELL of a lot more publicity stunts if they continue with their current trend of kowtowing to content disseminators and hurting their customers.
if it's a matter of whether it skips or tracks, i'll take the tracking any day. there's much improvement to be done on current dvd pla¥ers. i'd rather take a tracked out scene rather than a scratched out scene. not that i'd switch to win95 before osx
My parents are finally decomissioning one of their two Betamax machines. Under both their TVs, they've had a VHS and a Beta for, well, decades. I bought them a DVD player for their anniversary two years ago, and they use it all the time, but it doesn't mean that they're just going to toss the VCR. Heck, they still get broadcast TV over a roof-top antenna!
For them to move to a new technology, it takes a pretty significant push. For them to actually ditch the old, it's got to be even greater. And with our aging population, I'll bet there are plenty of people--at least 97 million of them--who are more than happy to hold on to their old technology.
Parents? What about me, actually? I rarely use my VCR, but I still have it, and it works great for the rare occasions that I do record anything for later viewing. I sincerely doubt that I'll ever buy TiVo. However, I'd be happy to buy a non-subscription-based (i.e. per transaction) downloadable video rental and purchase system like Apple is doing with iTunes Video.
Videos, TV shows, podcasts, news headlines, sports highlights, political commentary. There's no reason why there should not be a huge market for a wide variety of downloadable content that traditionally would have gone over broadcast or cable.
The CB App. What's your 20?
I like my VCR. It records what I tell it to. I don't have to put up with any crap about shows deleting themselves, or not being allowed to record them in the first place. I don't have to connect it to a phone line. I don't have to pay any sort of subscription fee. It lets me skip through any bits I don't want to see. It was dirt cheap to buy and operate. I have unlimited storage capacity. I can buy movies cheaper than any DVD, and that fill the frame of my cheap 4:3 TV.
Explain to me again, why is the VCR dead?
I still use my VCR standalone more. Why? Economics.
Sure that new Random Movie X has some cool features on the 2 disc dvd set. But even Wal Mart will want almost $25 for it. Whereas that VHS, will run me $10 or $15 at most if it's brand new (as in just released).
I love dvd's, small cases, can store a ton of them on relatively small shelf space, they don't wear down from repeated viewings like a VHS does. But they are twice as expensive.
The same will always happen with the new strings of technology. What if mini disc dvd's or whatever they are called take over in the next 5-10 years? DVD prices will be what VHS prices are now.
Maybe when companies stop trying to charge upwards of $25 or $30 for a 2 hour movie on dvd, I'll stick to just them. Yea I know, the extras and stuff often are the "reason" why the cost more, but most times I don't want extras. I just want the movie, in dvd format. I don't need super secret deleted scenes from the underground directors cut of the screenplay. Just gimme the final cut movie, in dvd quality.
Oh and offtopic, while on DVD's, I wish companies would stop releasing stuff in Wide Screen only. Yes I know it's "better" cause you get more viewable space in width and they don't need to stretch the image to fit your tv screen. But guess what? I like pan & scan. I like knowing that my 35 inch tv isn't wasting almost 1/2 it's screen size just to let me see some extra footage, on the sides. If I wanted wide screen I'd have purchased a wide screen style tv. It sucks to go buy a dvd and they only release it in Wide Screen. A relative purchased Oceans Tweleve (debates on good or bad movie, save for another time), but no store sold it in Full Screen on dvd. We finally just exchanged it for our money back.
Aw Frell this
I think this is just another nail in the coffin for VHS, with TiVo and DVD-Rs common methods for recording television broadcasts. I'd say that VHS is going to be around for as long as people have home videos and the like on tapes, or until it becomes unreasonable for stores to sell VCRs at rock bottom prices.
I think quite a large potential market here is the hybrid system (VHS/DVD player), which is what my mother bought because she was afraid of DVDs. Nowadays she rents DVDs only, if the movie is on VHS she is cautious to rent it because she knows how bad the quality will (most likely) be.
Our school has also readily adopted DVDs and purchased a bunch of Macs for video editing and DVD burning, although I personally prefer an XP machine with Adobe Encore, it's a sign of the times.
Although I personally prefer to get my movies delivered direct through my Bittorrent and P2P.
I'll subscribe to Slashdot when I see a month without a dupe, a typo, or an article the "editors" didn't read.
It's "fewer than 10 models".
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
Everybody I know has at least a DVD player in their home, most actually having a DVD recorder of some form and most having a home theater PC.
Right. And I'm assuming most/everyone you know is either very technically minded or has a lot of money. Because I doubt very much that a DVD recorder is the norm in America, with most people having a home theater PC (what do you mean by that?).
Over here in Australia the norm is a DVD and a VCR, with some people having a home theater big screen (although it isn't common by any stretch of the imagination). I imagine that America has a lot more DVR's (the only one I know of being sold in Australia is a proprietry one developed by a cable company that may or may not work with normal tv or other cable companies), I can't see DVD recorders being the norm. I know Australia's normally a little behind America, but I doubt it's that far behind.
My parents are finally decomissioning one of their two Betamax machines.
;)) or :D
Wow! Those betamax machines were certainly built to last! Even if your parents didn't use them that much.
Heck, they still get broadcast TV over a roof-top antenna!
Which I plan to do myself when I move out of home. I can't see roof-top antenna's ever being decomissioned unless:
1) every station agrees to stop transmitting their data that way or
2) basic television becomes free even when sent via cable-line (not to be confused with cable companies
3) the government passes a law forcing the television companies to stop doing it or
4) Television dies
Subscribing to cable is just a waste of money for people who don't watch a lot of tv.
The more restrictive and pervasive DRM gets, I for one am sure to keep a good 'ol VCR and analog TV around. Not as good as DVD, or HD - but hell, it works just fine. I am a "quality" snob, but I will not surrender my Fair Use rights for that quality.
Enlightenment is a pipe dream. So where's the pipe?
I agree with extras, I never watch them... I hate DVD menu navigation, it's very antiquated and slow. I do feel though that DVDs have an arguably better quality than DVDs to warrant buying them.
But... with regards to widescreen...
The reason for widescreen existing is a hell of a lot more reasonable than just people wanting fancy TVs and more stuff to see. As you may or may not know, widescreen and cinemascreen exist as they mimic much more accurately the standard viewing ratio of a 2-eyed human being.... despite eyes on the front of our heads, we have a huge peripheral vision and 4:3 causes extreme eyestrain (even if you do not notice it, it's there) due to that fact that it forces your eyes to naturally cross slightly. I now wouldn't be seen dead with a non-widescreen PC monitor as since buying only widescreens, my eyestrain has decreased to zero.
I'm all for ONLY releasing of widescreen versions by companies, as it will encourage widescreen uptake, which will lead to better eye health, undoubtedly.
And I was totally unaware that we make VCRs. We're an optical drive company, after all. We have one consumer electronics unit that plays VHS, but that's because it was designed to record them to DVD.
Anyway, I figure VCRs will last quite some time yet. Hell, even cassette decks still have their uses. Plus, VHS tapes are still way more convenient and familiar to most people than either recorded DVDs or TiVos. I'm sure companies will still be making them 30 years from now.
[insert witty quote here]
Given Tivo's past mis-steps, it shouldn't be too long before we see Tivo's funeral.
The reason I've kept my VCR so long is that my older TV only accepts Coax input. That makes watching anything besides Cable impossible -- unless you use the VCR's built-in RF Modulator to hook up modern devices that have composite video (like a DVD player) to the A/V input. Just change the VCR channel to "Input" or "Line" and Viola! DVDs, consoles and Camcorders are now fully useable on the older but still functional TV.
...it would be really wise of Jobs and Co (meaning the TV/movie studios) to try to figure out a way to embrace BitTorrent (or some similar technology) to distribute those mountains of data. Heck; why pay Akamai to ship all that crap out if they can build torrenting into iTunes. Maybe give people a discount on purchasing certain media if they are willing to torrent it out to new buyers...
The CB App. What's your 20?
>>Some 97 million households still have at least one VCR, according to the International Recording Media Association.
:-)
I have three....count 'em THREE VCRs still plugged in, taking power and giving me the time very reliably.
With 2 Tivos, when was the last time a VCR tape actually spun in one of these 3 decks? Over 3 years ago.
The tapes are loud, look like crap, and are unwieldy on the shelf. I don't even know where I buried the tapes.
Why don't DVD players display the time on the front? Then I could get rid of the clock/VCRs
...a TiVo model with Video iPod synching in the near future.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
OK, so does anybody actually know of a device that's basically just the equivalent of a vcr with a hard drive? Sure, having the super duper tv guide on the tivo is cool, but it's not $15 a month cool.
What I would ideally like is just something that I can set my own programs for, just like a vcr, and it records them. Then, I can watch them later; just like a vcr, except with a hard drive. I can set the time on my own, thank you very much, and set up my own recording times. If the tivo box allowed me to do that without having to pay their stupid subscription fee, then I would have bought one already. Sure, I wouldn't have their tv guide and preference matching and all that fancy shit, but I really don't care. If the tivo box would just let me set some start and end times to record, they would have made some money off of me.
And please don't say mythTV. Sure, it's nice and cool and open source and teh shizit and all that, but if I could just buy a ready-made box with a decent small remote for ~$250 or less, that would be great. I don't want to spend over $500 for a computer that I have to do a bunch of install crap on (and possibly have to build), and then not have a decent remote control for it; and $500 is the lowest realistic amount for a computer that can handle the video feeds decently. No, a remote keyboard isn't an option since that's another $50 at least just for that and it's big and clunky and looks weird sitting in your living room. All I want is a box that works like a vcr, but records to a hard drive, and that's small and just sits on top of my tv and has a normal remote. No big computer boxes please.
So, does anybody actually know of such a device? They sure don't exist at best buy. All they have is tivo and tivo clones. Somebody help me.
"God is dead." - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead." - God
...at least here in the UK where Tivo stopped selling hardware quite some time ago, and show no signs of starting again.
:(
Which pisses me off, because I really want one, but a new one. Yeah, I can ebay an old one. Yeah, there's alternatives. But as far as I know the original is still supposed to be the best. I want it!
Game dev and music blog
That said, I simply couldn't live without my ReplayTV and Moxi DVRs!
-Jim
http://gmailtips.com/
http://jimstips.com/
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
My home theater PC with SageTV, 3 tuners and 800GB buried my VCRs.
I doubt those figures of 97 million homes still with VCRs. Everybody I know
Ah, yes. The reliable statistical technique of a *not remotely random sample*.
has at least a DVD player in their home, most actually having a DVD recorder
Then "everybody you know" isn't remotely representative. "Most people" don't have a DVD recorder in their home, if by "DVD recorder" you mean a standalone device, and not just a recordable DVD drive in their PC.
of some form and most having a home theater PC.
And "most people" still don't have a "home theater PC".
VHS died years ago.
Oh, this is even more clueless. It's not that VHS is *now* dead.... it's that VHS died *years ago*.
Yes, everyone stopped using VHS in 2001 because standalone DVD recorders were so widely available and cheap back then.
I'm not American, nor am I familiar with the intricacies of the American market. Bearing this in mind, I can still confidently say that your assertion that "VHS died years ago" is complete garbage.
Amongst your very niche-y, cliquey, enclosed group of early-adopting, tech-obsessed friends, perhaps. But Tivo, despite its fanatical following, was (and still is) dwarfed by VHS usage.
Of course, VHS users are likely to be less serious tech-fans/TV-viewers, and thus aren't as "prominent" or "fashionable"; but I can quite confidently tell you that despite all the fuss over PVRs and recordable DVD in the past few years, both those technologies were still relatively niche products. Only *now* are they getting to the point where they will replace VHS.
Don't even think about pointing out the obvious; that DVD players are ubiquitous, and have almost killed off the pre-recorded VHS market (possible exception being childrens' stuff). Of course they are, and of course it has.
You were discussing the *death* of VHS, and until recently there has been no competition for *recording* material.
I think we're at the point now where VHS really *will* be eaten alive by a combination of DVD recorders (the most obvious replacement for VHS recording), and PVRs (the most *suitable* replacement for what VHS is still used for- time-shifting; most people don't want to keep the stuff they watch, so removing the hassle of changing media and keeping it all in one place is what they *really* want- trust me).
For example, my local supermarket now sells a basic PVR with integrated "Freeview" (terrestrial digital) tuner for UK £99 (about US $170). If I hadn't already had a Freeview tuner, or if I'd been into time-shifting enough to make it worthwhile, I'd have snapped it up.
I predicted in early 2004 that Christmas 2005 would be the "tipping point" when PVRs (not DVD recorders so much) would put the final nail in the coffin of VHS by taking over its remaining use. PVRs, I guessed, would be the runaway success this Christmas that DVD players were 3 or so years ago.
Well, I'm not 100% sure if I was right about Christmas, but if the tipping point isn't right now, I'm still confident it'll be in the next 4-6 months.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Primarily as a way of changing channels. My TV is one I found in my parents basement 6 years ago when I moved out. It has no remote, and by itself only handles the first 30 channels. It also has coaxial as its only input, so I have to run my XBox through the VCR as well. I almost never use it for recording, though it still plays my old VHS tapes when the need arises. Recently my wife dug out her copy of Ice Pirates, which she recorded off TV when she was really young (say early 80s). The quality was atrocious! I never realized how much tapes degraded. Most of the time I had to squint at the screen and go 'what the hell is going on'.
Tivo charges too much, and with all the software coming out for PCS, Tivo is going to go by the way side.
The AMD beating Intel post noted something very interesting, the majoity of the sales were HP Windows Media Center PCs.
I think it would be fitting for Tivo to be burried next to WebTV.
The bigger story is how mutiple brands of hard disk recorders (whether Sky+ bought with your digital satellite service or standalone units) and, to a lesser extent, DVD recorders are rapidly replacing VHS. I've found that DVD recorders offer little more than VHS recorders really - whilst you tend to have a higher quality picture and random access, it's also slower to actually start recording on a DVD recorder and the media is, ironically, less reliable than VHS (very susceptible to scratches for instance).
Whilst Tivo is right that hard disk recorders are ushering in the death of VHS, they've got a lot of competition, particularly outside the US, where Tivo seems to have no presence at all now. Also, don't forget Net downloading, which doesn't require an overpriced "Windows Media PC" to do it either.
It's so strange. When DVDs were new, they cost about $12-15. Now they're at least $20.
Oh and offtopic, while on DVD's, I wish companies would stop releasing stuff in Wide Screen only.
Even my cheap Apex DVD player has a feature that stretches widescreen to TV-sized for you. Best of both worlds.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
Despite it's terrible picture quality, VHS is still very useful for professionals during editing.
If you need to show the work in progress to someone, the fastest, cheapest and most reliable way is to output from your Final Cut/Avid to VHS.
Sure, you could make a DVD, but many editors don't know how to do that, and if they do know, they just don't have the time for it. The VHS is done in real time, and you can be sure there will be a player for it, and the tape will just play in it.
With a DVD, it will take at least twice the time of what you are recording, and maybe a lot more if you edit on older equipment, and you cannot even be really sure the disc will play on the DVD player that will be used. (I have received several self-made DVDs which play in my computer, but from which I get no sound out of my normal DVD player.)
...as long as Netcraft doesn't confirm it!
Good thing you picked up the story or the idiot who came up with this publicity stunt would be out of a job.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Most everybody I know has at least one oscilloscope at home. Well, not 'everybody' but anybody whose opinion matters on things electronic.
Anyhow...
resigned
My wife wanted the INTEGRATED FORD player in our new truck (what the hell, she paid for it)
it now has two dvd's in it.. (thanks kids)
try to get two VHS tapes into a slot designed for one-- there are always tradeoffs.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I can't record something for friends, parent, in-laws etc. because I can't give them a tape of a show (or whatever) when I visit them. My parents don't even own a dvd player yet. I doubt that they'll get one soon either, as long as the local rental store keeps renting vcr tapes.
Actually, that reminds me that vcrs might be popular with older people: just put tape in and hit play, as apposed to dvds, that have fancy menus that might be hard for some one to use, esp if the have poor vision.
My bet is that Tivo is going to die before the VCR. The VCR still lets me play anything I like, the way I want it. This is a feature which Tivo is lacking.
The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
So what am I supposed to record TV on now? I must have something like 200 full VCR tapes (because I'm one of those types who never throws anything away.)
The quality on VCR has always been great, and personally, I feel it's the DVD quality that is inferior. Of the two DVDs I have watched, every frame looked like it had been saved as a JPG at a quality level that gives that annoying "watermark" of JPG.
And DVD recorders? Disks are vulnerable to scratches; tapes/cartridges aren't.
And that's not even going into the copy protection thing.
VCRs won't die too soon. We still use ours for taping a lot of shows. There's a lot of racket about broadcast flags, and how maybe the Tivos of the future may not be able to record certain shows. Really, the VCR still does the job quite well, and i don't have to worry about them blocking shows.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I will never forget the night I went to a friend's party and he had a tape of "Deep Throat" in his dad's new $750 VCR. We had never seen anything remotely like it; in fact, I knew hardly anyone who even had a VCR. Everyone was watching, including the girls. I remember going to a couple of "porno parties" later that year and watching "Debbie Does Dallas" while seated between two gorgeous, totally enthralled cheerleaders. Debauchery ensued; a night for the record books indeed.
Ah, for the good old days when porn was new and exciting and respectable, not pathetic and sweaty and solitary. You young slashdotters have no idea what I'm talking about...
-ccm
Too much Law; not enough Order.
I don't know about Australia, but I can see PVRs catching on over here in the UK soon. Why? The digital switchover. Once analog switches off, you'll either have do some tricky messing around with your Freeview set-top box and your VCR (and possibly buy a second STB) or buy a Freeview PVR. There are already several makes of Freeview-based PVRs - they use the over-the-air 7-day listing (no subscription), and I expect there'll be strong competition on price, features, ease-of-use, etc between manufacturers. (You can also set up a MythTV box to do the same thing, but that's harder.)
Incidentally, TiVo and similar analog PVRs don't seem to be too common over here, probably because of these and more importantly Sky+ (see below)
Note to non-UK viewers - Freeview is the UK's free (as in pay via the license) over-the-air digital service. It has most of the interesting channels IMO. For satellite, you'd be using Sky and you'd have to buy their own Sky+ PVR box - no competition, possibly an extra subscription fee, etc.
Yeah, I find that DVD usually isn't too bad for quality, but What I do find bad, is Digital Cable. The HD stuff is good, but if it's not HD, it usually ends up looking like some badly encoded thing you download off the internet. There's some places that make it look more noticable than others. Take football for example. All that green "grass" in the background end up looking terrible when compressed. There are a lot of cases when analog looks better than digital, especially when the digital isn't done well enough. Also, when you lose part of a digital signal, the result is unwatchable, when you lose part of an analog signal, you can usually still watch it.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
VCR is dead, netcraft confirms it!
Fnord.
As you may or may not know, widescreen and cinemascreen exist as they mimic much more accurately the standard viewing ratio of a 2-eyed human being.... despite eyes on the front of our heads, we have a huge peripheral vision and 4:3 causes extreme eyestrain (even if you do not notice it, it's there) due to that fact that it forces your eyes to naturally cross slightly. I now wouldn't be seen dead with a non-widescreen PC monitor as since buying only widescreens, my eyestrain has decreased to zero.
Interesting...can you cite a source?
Tivo killed their own market.
First they advertised with the awful "It pauses live TV!" campaign.. to which the entire population said 'so what?'
Then they seemed to give up on advertising completely.
To completely bury it they then had the infamous "spam TV" incident in which every Tivo in the UK was forced to watch one of the crappiest programmes ever.. on Saturday at 7pm primetime. Great way to get the name out I guess.. it was in the headlines for 3 days... OTOH it proved that the phrase "No publicity is bad publicity" is wrong.
There's no equivalent to the Tivo in the UK at all yet (excepting the remaining Tivos that are still limping along from before they stopped selling them). What we call a 'PVR' is little more than a VCR with a hard disk..
Sky+? Doesn't handle conflicts automatically, deletes the SP if the season ends, doesn't have wishlists, doesn't have suggestions, if you cancel a channel all your existing recordings stop working, only 7 day EPG.. I could go on.
The VCR, found dead in its box at age 30. Truly an American icon... (Had to be said!)
Put identity in the browser.
VCRs will be around until there is a cheap DVR out there that doesn't need monthly fees. Why? Because there will always be grad students with TV addictions.
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
And tapes are vulnerable to magnets, and they also tend to jam if they've ever been exposed to heat > room temps. (i.e. if you leave them sitting near a radiator). DVDs, while also vulnerable to heat, seem to have a much higher tolerance than VHS cassettes.
I do agree about the ease of recording, though. It's pretty difficult to simply transfer shows from your TV to DVD. Until DVD recorders come down in price to the point that they are competitive with VCRs, the VHS industry will remain profitable.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
it plays most of the divx's I throw at it, DVD's too! Far better than the Celeron 600 and scan converter I was using.
The OED's earliest citation for this usage of "less" is from circa 888AD.
True, but prescriptivists would counter your observation with "Usages can become obsolete. For instance, do people use 'thou' anymore?"
(Bonus off.)
We have one consumer electronics unit that plays VHS, but that's because it was designed to record them to DVD.
Isn't copying VHS to DVD an infringement (if the VHS was pre-recorded) or at least shady (if the VHS was time-shifted from television)? I must be missing something, but what's the substantial non-infringing use case of a consumer product that copies VHS to DVD?
There's no equivalent to the Tivo in the UK at all yet (excepting the remaining Tivos that are still limping along from before they stopped selling them). What we call a 'PVR' is little more than a VCR with a hard disk..
There may not be, but it's possible. MythTV supports Freeview tuners and the Freeview 7-day EPG data (though it's still something of a work in progress). Of course, it's a pain to set up, but in theory there's no reason why someone couldn't create a consumer PVR which does this (perhaps even one which runs a modified version of MythTV).
[Digital video recorders are] a bit more complex to operate than your standard VCR (since you have to bother with such things as setting the compression for any HD and DVD copy,)
Most VHS users who would care about DVD compression already understand SP vs. SLP. Is there any other reason that a DVD video recorder would be significantly more complex than a VHS recorder?
Maybe you should extend your search beyond Best Buy.
Some people want to buy from a local store so that they can spend an order of magnitude less money on shipping, especially if the unit needs service and it has to make a round trip.
You can pick up a DVD recorder for under $100 at any major electronics store. They are competitive with VCRs right now. I use one to offload TV shows I want to keep from my TiVo. Works like a champ.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
How does a mythtv box get its schedules? From the Internet.
Tritesnikov does not want schedules. Unlike TiVo, MythTV can be used in "expensive VCR" mode without a subscription to schedules, right?
You need the telephone line whether you use tivo or mythtv.
A significant number of Slashdot users have commented that they have only cable Internet and a mobile phone. If this describes you, then the cost for a telephone land line is part of the TiVo subscription fee and should be considered in the calculation of the payback period.
Crawl out of your nerd-hole and realise that hardly anyone has broadband and ethernet all over the house
People who would consider MythTV over TiVo likely do. Remember what site you're reading, and remember its audience.
Excellent point. Our household is one of those statistics. And, to boot, I find that VCR quality often is more reliable that rental/public DVDs. That is, we find far more digital glitches in DVDs than VCR tapes! Oh, I wish it weren't so!
Everyone "I" know has both.
A DVD player for rentals and VCR for recording "Lost".
I think someone is intentionally underestimating the number of VCRs.
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
If Tivo keeps gaining stupidity (fooling with the delete timeouts, intrusive ads, etc) they'll be joining the VCR soon enough..
Speaking as someone in the Silicon Valley, I want to second the statements of the Aussie and add that I don't think the US is necessarily anywhere "ahead" of Australia wrt tech. The vocal Slashdot crowd is just filled with people who are out of touch with reality.
i think the poster meant a computer dvd recorder.
people nowadays connect their computers to their "home theater".
so yeah, it is a form of a dvd recorder but not that ones you're thinking of.
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
Once analog switches off, you'll either have do some tricky messing around with your Freeview set-top box and your VCR (and possibly buy a second STB) or buy a Freeview PVR.
Believe me, I've considered this before. And after a while, you'll realise that the ideal solution is to have a box that combines:-
- Digital tuner (Freeview/DVB or your preferred source, depending on what you want and where you live)
- Hard Drive
- DVD Recorder
- Analogue signal input
You may ask why, since traditionally all-in-one units lack flexibility and reduce your choice in comparison with separate units (e.g. TV/VCR combos rarely save you money, and they often only have one tuner).
Well, simple answer:-
It's going to be a PITA to
(a) Get all the above to work together
(b) Operate them together, and
(c) Not lose quality or 'information' when transferring between them.
Examples:-
(i) You want to transfer a digitally-stored programme from the HDD to a separate DVD recorder. Can you transfer the digital information without loss? What if the DVD recorder only has analogue (at best RGB) inputs. This means loss of quality, and you'll have to transfer in real-time. What if you have some form of digital interface between the two? Are they compatible? Better check. What if there are issues between two different manufacturer's units? Do you *really* want the hassle of this? Are you sure that even if the interfaces connect that the DVD recorder will be able to handle the digital output of the PVR?
Can you even get video off the PVR in its stored form (I suppose you could take the HDD out and connect it to your computer; assuming you can read the drive's format)?
(ii) You don't really need an analogue *tuner* if you have a digital (e.g. Freeview) tuner (if the worst comes to the worst, you can use the one in your old VCR). However, if you want to digitise old video material, you'll still need some form of analogue-compatible input (and a converter).
I could come up with lots of examples, but that's my case; it'll be better to buy a single unit with all four of these functions integrated.
The problem with stuff at present is that it isn't this integrated; e.g. I can buy a digital-only PVR for a decent price, and a DVD-recorder with built-in analogue tuner and analogue-inputs at a decent price. But what if I want to burn stuff from the PVR to DVD? Loss of quality.
Integrated recorders are good; but do they include analogue input? If not, you probably can't use them to digitise all your old VHS.
A PC gives you the flexibility to do all this, probably. But this is *way* more hassle than it's worth if you have a large collection. You really want to just push a few buttons for each transfer.
I could live without the analogue input myself (don't have enough VHS left to worry about it), but my Dad, for example, has a lot of tapes that he'd probably like to transfer; and he's not the type of guy who enjoys faffing around with HiFi and "Home Theatre" setups.
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PVR is just a bad idea forced upon you by backwardsthinking providers. Why should everyone have to store the same episode locally, and make sure their expensive toy is programmed to record it? Video on demand have existed for a long time. You start your cheap setopbox, browse through the virtual video store, select a movie and watch it, instantly. What are the providers waiting for?
I don't know a single person with a DVD recorder. I'm in my 20's, college educated, middle class, and living in an American city with about 1 million people.
Don't know a soul with one of those either.
This also brings up another issue. The DVD recordable format has still not stabilized. This is no issue if I'm recording for my own archival purposes, but, if I'm taking footage to someone else's house, I want to be sure that the footage will play.
So are these DVD recorder's multiformat?
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Since they now have a dirt cheap DVD recorder (made by Ilo) for less than $100, it's looking more like VHS may give way to DVD-+R/W.
Not only does Tivo cost twice as much as the DVD recorder, it's priced (obviously) far higher than VCRs. Add to that the fact that you have to pay for a service fee, and those costs pile up. Maybe I'm not old enough to be in that "My grandchildren know more how to program my VCR than I do" group, but I don't need, nor want, my home video recorder to phone home every time I want to record the latest Battlestar Galactica eps.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
So you have the UK potentially covered. What about everyone else? And what lawful sources in the UK are there other than the BBC?
But does it run FreeBSD?
When your DVR records a show, it would put that fact into a database. Perhaps there was a nasty storm and the dish was no good for about 10 minutes. Your DVR consults the database and finds 120 other people who successfully recorded the show, and are willing to let you have a 5-second fair-use excerpt thereof. Your DVR downloads those 120 chunks and assembles them together to cover the outage.
TiVo killed the VCR!
TiVo killed the VCR!
With iPods and DVR
no more tapes, just gzipped tar*
Oh-a-aho oh, Oh-a-aho oh!
*(Or some other file format that doesn't rhyme)
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Most are not, but the vast majority of players are, so it's really a moot point. I do find it annoying that there are still two DVDR/RW formats.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
VCR's aren't sold on a subscription basis.
vcr is well defently not as big as it used to be of course becouse of dvd. but most people have both. relly the case for those who rent movies couse if the dvd is all rented out they just rent the vhs. i have sevrel dvd players my pc for 1 my xbox and my stand alone on my tv. but i always have a vcr on the tv the xbox is on as well as the other tv. granted the one is hardly used but the one on the xbox servs as the av hookup. someone said meda center pcs will all pcs are meda centers they always have benn that way sence the first gui os. you have your video audio and gaming all in 1.
The "R" in VCR was always an extra for most people once the video store took off. Only a tiny minority of VCR owners recorded television on tape (time-shifted). Most VCR owners barely recorded anything, they just rented tapes. Judging by the tapes I've bought on eBay, most people who did record things recorded movies from the premium cable services because buying a movie on tape was $79.95 and up. The $20 dvd purchase price made taping movies less cost-effective. Once DVDs were rentable (and DVD players became as cheap as VCRs) the VCR was dead. The automation of recording daily material with a PVR (i.e. soap operas) may revive time-shifting, but the purchase point for most television shows on DVD is low enough that long-term storage (or write-to-DVD) is probably a niche market. I still have a lot of VCRs and a lot of tapes, but they don't get much use now.
I'd rather be preterite
VHS hasn't quite died yet.
It has already lived a significantly longer life than the current (incompatible with each other) DVD formats will.
The rush to continuously upgrade to the newest, "best" format almost guarantees that new formats won't last as long, and is already a problem with archiving. Before you know it, persistant solid state memory will surpass disc-based systems for storage.
Magnetic tape has been around a long time, and although there are problems with magnetism and heat, these are well known and usually controllable. DVDs, especially those writeable by the consumer, might not prove as durable as tape, depending on the dyes used and the other materials. In general, the more info you pack into a smaller space, the more fragile the data is.
Well the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD fight is going to make this struggle seem like a cakewalk, since, from what I've heard, its a lot harder to make multi-format players for the next-gen disks than for the current DVD-R/DVD+R set.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Yea, I'm soooo looking forward to that. Maybe we can have Blu-Ray +/-RW and HD-DVD +/- RW for twice the fun!
This makes me pine for the simple days of the 56K wars.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.