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Magnetic Field Thruster Developed
ndverdo writes "There are reports of a working magnetic field engine prototype based on Alfvén waves designed by Austrian scientists. According to the reports fuel savings in rocket engines of 90% could be achieved. Other benefits include enhanced durability due to the nozzle forming outside the engine."
Is this economically/technologically feasible? I've been quite the sceptic lately with all these new "breakthroughs" that don't quite break through anything.
Just thinking that it woulda saved me a headache ifn I'd noticed it was a babelfish translation earlier.
rewriting history since 2109
"with satellites the fuel up to 50 per cent of the weight constitutes, because on it also the life span depends. Without drive cannot be maintained the accurate position finally"
Oh, come on, who WOULDN'T say:
With the help of one on "Alfven waves" of based plasma propulsion the thrust of a rocket can be drastically reduced increased, at the same time the fuel consumption, so the idea.
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This will lead to more efficient transportation of eels via hovercraft.
My old sig was REALLY stoopid.
Notation Polish Reverse reading in to help seems.
One, score for rocket lovers! Much increased efficiency of rockets is making space elevator needed less.
I used to carry a bottle of whiskey for snake bite. And two snakes. -Nefarious Wheel
Apparently the real breakthrough here isn't this new technology in rocket science, but rather that someone still uses Babelfish/Altavista.
:)
Deja Vu
n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
With the help of one on "Alfven waves" of based plasma propulsion the thrust of a rocket can be drastically reduced increased, at the same time the fuel consumption, so the idea.
In das Soviet-Russeland, der Rocketfuelconsumption reduces increases YOU! So.
Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
...and it was not "Chinglish"; it is the inevitable byproduct of using a machine without experience or intelligence to translate between two dramatically different languages. Grammatical errors are going to happen.
This sort of thing has been in the works forever and there's entire university physics and astrophysics texts written on it as well as related disciplines including plasma and ion propulsion. That the superheated reaction products of a rocket are ionized and thus subject to magnetic fields is well known. What is not well known is when we might make some use of this.
We do know that various superconductors are in that state when subjected to the cryogenic temperatures of liquified oxygen and hydrogen and using the fuel and oxidizer to cool such magnets would be an interesting thing. It would have to be in the line before the liquified reactants reached the nozzle cooling section but if it worked it might well dramatically reduce the size and thus mass of the nozzle and thus the cooling requirements as well. It depends on the tradeoff of field generating power equipment, coils, and so forth.
Ultimately the basic research being done here will be contributory to the future of space propulsion in its own small way.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
I know it's Sunday, but lets think a little. Why the heck link directly to a Babelfish translation making the poor fishy run the page through the translator for every Slashdot visitor?
USE CORAL CACHE and create a Fish-friendly copy!
It's not ignorance anymore editors, it's pure arrogance. "Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" Yeah, so you direct the tsunami that is Slashdot. Ooh, aah, wow. Altavista doesn't even get any ad-generated revenue. This is what will make people block specific referrers. I know if I was the webmaster for Altavista, Babel would not allow references from slashdot.org anymore.
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
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The basic idea of how this works is like a railgun, except you're trying to get the gun to move, not the projectile. Two parallel bars, with a third across the two, and massive current going through the system. The third bar experiences terrific force. In this system, the perpendicular bar is actually a conducting gas.
To learn German than try and untangle that horrible babelfish translation. The funny part was that I read about 4 paragraphs before realizing it was a Babelfish translation, and the whole time wondered what incompetant wrote it :P
Anyway, here's a better(or at least another) translation done by ImTranslator.
You seem to be implying that I would care...
The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
http://webtranslation.paralink.com/webtarget.asp?u rl=http%3A%2F%2Fdiepresse.at%2FArtikel.aspx%3Fchan nel%3Dh%26ressort%3Dws%26id%3D512951%26lp%3Dde_en& dir=de%2Fen&dic=general&auto=
Can Babelfish translate English to English?
Good explenation of MPD
I'm sure it reads better in the original Klingon.
Further implications of magnetic nozzle control can be found http://www.ess.washington.edu/Space/magbeam/NIAC20 05/NIACmagbeam2005.ppt
Not being familiar with Alfvén waves, I am not sure how the velocity of the exhaust is increased. Could these waves be forced via magnets to form a constriction in the flow, forcing the vented material through a smaller "exhaust port"? (This would be in keeping with the separation of combustion from the nozzles.)
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
I just wasted 20 minutes of my life. Here is the result:
The idea is 20 years old and was conceived by Manfred Hettmer, president of the austrian mars society. A new plasma-engine based on "Alfven-waves" could increase the thrust of a rocket while at the same time drastically reducing its fuel consumption. At least that is the theory.
And in practice, in tests the plasma-engine achieved fuel savings of around 90%, which is no small thing: "A sattellites weight is 50% fuel, because its fuel determines its life time. Without engines the sattellite could not keep it's exact position", says project coordinator Andreas Grassauer.
The basis of the development is a discovery by nobel prize winning physicist Hannes Alfven in the year 1942. Alfven was researching, among other things, magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), which describes the interaction between an electically conductive fluid with electic and magnetic fields, and also the propagation of waves in the fluid - now known as "Alfven-waves".
Now, for the first time, there is a technical implementation of the "Alfwen-waves", that, in Grassauer's words, "could be the start of a new era in rocket engine technology". The main feature of the technology is a ten times higher escape speed, that can otherwise only be achieved by a fusion engine, which doesn't exist yet. The measurements were taken on a prototype engine in a vacuum chamber. Also, corrosion of the engine is avoided since the thrust is achieved using the magnetic jet on the outside.
Economically, there has been some interest in the project already. Besides Grassauer and Hettmer the experimental physicist Norbery Frischauf, system engineer Tobias Bartusch and Otto Koudelka of the TU Graz are also involved. On the 15th of October the plasma-engine will be shown for the first time at the convention of the Internation Aeronatic Federation (FAI) in Japan.
Formerly NASA's Adavnced Space Propulsion Laboratory (Recently privatized to get more money) has indeed developed a working VASIMR based fusion rocket engine that HAS run off of what is generally agreed to be the exhaust from a fusion reactor with very promising results. By Very promising I mean Mars in a month if the engine is fed the power output of a nuclear submarine's reactor. Only problem: Getting said reactor to space.
Anyone has any idea what it was supposed to mean ?
This has loads of implications:
1) longer lived satellites, which by weight are 50% fuel
2) heavier payloads for rockets.
3) smaller more robust rockets--no more shuttle fuel tank explositions
4) launch the ISS in 10x fewer launches, making pH of acidified atmosphere 1 pH unit higher, closer to breathable.
4) ten times fewer mobile ballistic missiles to hide and still be able to destroy the earth
5) perhaps a return trip from mars.
6) my personal rocket car will get better fuel milage than my hummer.
7) New distance record for rocket propelled pumpkin toss
8) Jet pack, baby!
By the way, When will these be available for my este's rocket and bong lighter ?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Not the article, which is actually quite readable once you know a bit of German. But most posters reaction to this awful machine translation.
One second, time to climb on the soapbox. There we go.
Jokes about different languages being "messed up grammatically" or just wrong, or the (very old and not really relevant anymore) jokes about German's reallylongwordsthatneverend are lame.
Do you know what purpose words like those are for? Do you realize how incredibly useful that linguistic feature is?
I admit that German verb structure is uncanny at first. Especially those damn separable verbs. But even they aren't that bad. There are reasons verbs come at the end of some German sentences. EG a modal verb in the first position.
This really is no different than trying to use some wacky translator to translate smalltalk directly into c. It won't look pretty because of the differences in "grammar".
Bad analogy but I am continually shocked by my own geek friends who think it is weird that I like to learn other human languages. They aren't that different than learning another computer language, and the power they allow can be infinitely more useful.
And from my own experience, there are LOTS more women that learn French than German. Sooooo.... Learn some French and get laid. I think, actually stay away I like my odds right now.
And I am done, time to get off the soapbox.
Pick apart the English grammar/spelling if you want, I didn't proofread this at all.
To quote mister Mark Twain himself about German orthography:
Since long, my gentlemen, have I the passionate longing nursed a speech on German to hold, but one has me not permitted.
Even funnier if you understand German grammar. Just had to vent, sorry if I pissed anyone off, but these jokes are really boring after the 1000th time reading them.
PS: bonus for learning German, really hot intelligent German/Austrian/Swiss/Luxembourg women will adore you. Very few europeans even expect an American to know a tiny bit of any language other than English. Did I mention blonds? I am pretty sure I did.
We already have ion propulsion that offers specific impulses 5-10 times higher than those of chemical propulsion. The problem is, the thrust magnitude is very low (= 1N) and the physics of those thrusters prevents them from operating in the atmosphere.
Now the key difference appears to be this: Ion propulsion gains efficiency by having a dramatically higher specific impulse. Some performance of ion propulsion systems is sacrificed due to its low thrust/mass ratio, but the high Isp usually more than makes up for that.
The article states "The most substantial characteristic of the technology is ten times a higher flow-out rate, which otherwise only by a nuclear fusion engine - which (still) does not exist - is attainable." This makes it sound as if they are working on the fuel efficiency problem from the other part of the equation. If this technology does infact yield a very high flow rate, its possible it has a thrust level adequate for launch vehicles. Is there any word on whether or not this technology has any limitations to being used in such an application?
"Open the pod by doors, Hal" > "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" sudo "Open the pod bay doors, Hal" > alright
These guys have come up with a way to accellerate a plasma with just magnetic fields: no electrodes need be exposed to the plasma.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Sorry, couldn't resist...
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward