Inequity and Diversity in the Game Dev Sector

Thumpah writes "J, the Damned Vulpine, has just posted a report on the inequality panel from the latest meeting of the Austin Game Developers group. The panel consisted of Sheri Graner Ray of Sony Online Entertainment's Austin studio, Ellen Hobbs of Amaze, Chris Smith of Lois Earl Entertainment, Denise Fulton of Midway Austin, Matt Crump of Amaze, Suzanne Freyjadis-Chuberka of the Women's Game Conference, and Susan O'Conner (a freelance game author) to moderate the panel. He ties the discussion in with the recent IDGA Game Developer Demographics Report."

Comments

So...

[Otter]

To summarize today's news:

Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Google, iPod, game developers, game developers, game developers, shaaria-compliant Simpsons in Arabic, game developers...

Slow day at Google today -- it's a good thing someone stepped into the breach to sue them!

Man, I hate this stuff

[0kComputer]

Why is diversity so important? Why does every industry HAVE to have diversity? Discrimination is one thing, but I think its pretty obvious that thats not going on here. I just don't buy the whole "lets encourage everyone but young white men to get into [ insert field/acedemia here ] because the industry needs diversity argument."

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you produce an entertainment product for a subset of society without an understanding of the group? Who has the best understanding of a particular group's desires? How will the industry grow if it doesn't attract gamers who normally aren't interested in gaming? One of the main reasons that gaming is only popular among males under the age of 30 is that the majority of people working in the industry are men under the age of 30.

Personally, I don't think that there is a simple fix for this; from what I have seen most of the people who go into software engineering or computer science (or even 3d modeling) are gaiming geeks, of those that graduate only the biggest gaming geeks head into videogame development. Being that the majority of gaming geeks are white/asian males its unlikely that you will be able to attract a broader group to become attracted to game development until a broader group is interested in games; it's unlikely that a wider group of people will become interested in games until a wider group of people becomes interested in game development.

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[RaphKoster]

The most practical reason is because diversity in the development teams leads to diversity of subjects in the games, which then potentially leads to larger audiences for games. Games like Dance Dance Revolution, Katamari Damacy, SimCity, and so on appear because people who aren't like the current game developers, people who aren't interested in the same old things, end up controlling a project. These then may well result in larger revenues, and larger cultural relevance, for games in general. As well as more kinds of games to play for everyone.

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

Are the development teams the only ones tasked at these companies to come up with ideas for new games? If so, that may be a valid point. If not, to paraphrase Hank Williams: "A hit game doesn't care who writes it."

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[Ada_Rules]

(on a side note) Boy this is a scary discussion. Seems like a lot of anonymous cowards!

To quote the parent

One of the main reasons that gaming is only popular among males under the age of 30 is that the majority of people working in the industry are men under the age of 30.

I'd actually turn that around. I think one of the main reasons that the majority of people working in the industry are men under the age of 30 is because they are the ones that want to play the games.

I see a lot of students that "want to get into writing games". They don't think they are going to get rich doing it. They think they are going to have fun doing it.

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[minus_273]

because this is the west and if you dont you are a racist. dont you love the circular logic?

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[Oracle of Bandwidth]

It's simple: By ignoring race you are in fact raceist. In other news, the choclate ration has been increased to .8 grams.

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[__aaclcg7560]

They think they are going to have fun doing it.

Sure they do. Until they start working 80 hours a week and surrendering all their free time that they realize that working on video games is no longer fun 'n' games. Crunch time can be brutual, especially when it's year round.

I did that for six years before I got out. I'm now having more fun working 40 hours a week on the IBM Help Desk for a large company and getting 50% more pay than before. Nothing like having money in the wallet and the time to enjoy it on the weekends. :)

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

Well how bout this...

Sales - Increase market share to those that have different cultures than the majority of developers. But wait everyone thinks like I do. Have you ever read a bad instruction manual that was first written in another language.

Discrimination - Who said anything about that. But you could stop spreading steroetypes. That would be nice. But it is all about me. Isn't it. I do not think that anyone WILL EVER discourage young white men from doing anything. Period. Others can be harder to reach.

It would be good for this country to recruit some bodies for this industry before it is outsourced. With that said, maybe the whole point should just be ignored. Diversity WILL happen it will just not be who you think it will be.

Travel to another country that is not connected to the US and ask your question again.

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[Peter La Casse]

I just don't buy the whole "lets encourage everyone but young white men to get into [ insert field/acedemia here ] because the industry needs diversity argument."

An interesting study that I read about recently said that all sorts of computing-related diversity-increasing measures that are being tried basically amount to test cases for methods that will work for anybody, regardless of their minority status. So when Group G does Foo to try to get more members of Minority M into computing, if it works, then Foo tends to be applicable to any group, minority or not. So if you're offended when somebody says "let's encourage everyone but young white males," rest assured that young white males may very well reap the benefits of that particular method of encouragement eventually.

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[KDR_11k]

.8 grams? Can you even cut chocolate that fine?

Re:Man, I hate this stuff

[MLopat]

Couldn't agree more. Its not like this industry looks specifically for young white males, they just happen to be the interested parties. So to what end would diversity improve anything in this development? I suspect people are looking for products with more mass appeal, but then we're stereotyping a particular group, when we produce "games for girls", etc.

Seems more non discriminating if we didn't focus on diversity.

The most interesting thing...

[Otter]

Percentage of people with disabilities = 13% (e.g., cognitive, mobility, sight, etc)

This number strikes me as astonishingly high. Looking at the raw data: as I'd figured, 5% of that is dyslexia/ADD/whatever (which is still pretty high). But 2% blind?!? 1% paraplegic/ALS? 5% saying yes to "Mental illness (eg, depression, schizophrenia, etc)"?!?!? Yikes!

Either there's some huge skewing in the study sampling or the game industry is, to put it mildly, a demographic outlier. It's interesting how all the discussion of the report fails to take any note of a supposed 5% rate of severe mental illness.

Re:The most interesting thing...

[PhoenixOne]

>5% saying yes to "Mental illness
>
You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps.

Re:The most interesting thing...

[Minna Kirai]

It's interesting how all the discussion of the report fails to take any note of a supposed 5% rate of severe mental illness.

The USA has 295,000,000 people.
Of those, 20,000,000 have prescriptions for medical treatment of mental illness.

That's a 6.7% rate, and that's only counting people recieving pharmaceutical treatment.

So, are you asking why the programmers have a 1.7% lower rate of mental illness than the public at large?

PS. If you're a programmer with difficulty concentrating, faking mental illness to get a Adderall prescription can really boost your productivity!

Re:The most interesting thing...

[Otter]

First, I don't get what your second link (the same as the first link) is supposed to be showing.

Second, the percent of people in this study claiming mental disabilities is 10%. 5% is the sort of low grade stuff that you're referring to and that (I'd guess) makes up a large share, if not a majority of those prescriptions. The other 5% is severe mental illness -- that number seems very high to me, for a population that is entirely employed.

And 2% blindness, in a sample that is not just employed, but employed in a vision-heavy job?!?

Re:The most interesting thing...

[forkazoo]

And 2% blindness, in a sample that is not just employed, but employed in a vision-heavy job?!?

Those are the sound guys and network programmers. :)

Re:The most interesting thing...

[patio11]

You work for EA for six months and then tell me 5% of your coworkers having clinical depression and suicidal tendencies sounds high. I'm guessing about 9/10 of those blind folks became blind as a result of a work-related injury, like pencil-in-the-eye after they heard of how much crunch was expected of them (of course, one pencil only makes you half-blind -- they then stabbed the other eye because only one punctured eyeball isn't enough to get a day off of work).

Re:The most interesting thing...

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

<obligatory> Some of them also work on the Games section at Slashdot... allegedly... :-) </obligatory>

Minor correction, AGD is not AGC

[RaphKoster]

The Austin Game Developers group is not the same thing as the Austin Game Conference. The AGD meets periodically and holds discussions like this; the AGC happens annually and is a for-profit conference.

Re:Minor correction, AGD is not AGC

[tvalley000]

Thanks Raph -- if you notice, I didn't specify AGC, I specified an AGD..."conference". I guess I could have put "periodic meeting/discussion at an undisclosed meeting where, unfortunately, everyone was wearing pants". "Conference" just sounded better. Sorry for the confusion.

Inequity?

[Red Flayer]

"Inequity and Diversity in the Game Dev Sector"

Whoa... read that as "Iniquity and Diversity..."

For a second there, I thought the study may have been saying that Jack Thompson was really onto something -- that maybe game devs really are wicked.

Turns out they're just white males with a high incidence of mental illness (no surprise, considering what they go through on a regular basis).

This is getting tired.

[Xarius]

Why isn't there a cryout for more female plumbers? Or more male nursery school teachers? Or more elderly marketing directors? Or more Asian architects?

Men and women are not equal. It's a simple fact, and men gravitate to certain jobs, and women gravitate to others. This is not simply because of social pressures or history, it's because of fundamental differences in both mental and physical aspects between men and women. Sure, there are exceptions as with any 'rule'.

You'll find plenty of jobs suited to both genders, like sales positions, or teaching jobs, or bank managers. Then you'll find jobs suited more to one gender like programmers, welders, nurses or midwifes (do we have a P.C. term for that yet?).

As for 'women feel excluded in programming environments', it's bullshit. Geeky types are all socially inept usually, women included. Most geeks are not forward enough to make a woman feel uncomfortable in the workplace.

</minirant>

Re:This is getting tired.

[Allison Geode]

you're wrong: men and women are equal. however, being equal doesn't mean identical.
Some people are just naturally more inclined toward certain abilities, skills, lifestyles, careers, etc, based on who they are and how they're born. think of it in terms of the asian "yin/yang" symbol: both pieces are the same shape, but in order to interlock, one has to be facing the other direction, one has to be upside down in comparison to the other, and for the sake of making it easily notable that one is different from the other, its a different color. however, both sides of the symbol are equal, just different.

Re:This is getting tired.

[some guy on slashdot]

Umm...because we're talking about a field whose product is creative in nature? Just a guess.

On an unrelated note, does your dick get chafed from all that waving?

Re:This is getting tired.

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

you're wrong: men and women are equal.

It's funny how it remains legal almost everywhere to discriminate on gender alone when recruiting front-line military personnel then.

Maybe political correctness isn't the first thing you're concerned about when your unit is coming under fire, one of your guys is hit, and someone else needs to carry them to cover.

Re:This is getting tired.

[cluke]

Maybe, or maybe it's the fact that a society can lose very large amounts of men and still recover within a generation (as one man can father many children simultaneously) whereas one woman can only produce one child at once, and only for a limited span. Therefore it makes precious little sense to send women to the front lines, in the same way you don't send your university educated males to the front line either.

Re:This is getting tired.

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Therefore it makes precious little sense to send women to the front lines, in the same way you don't send your university educated males to the front line either.

Except that graduates generally train to become commissioned officers, and front line units are frequently led by a lieutenant...

Re:This is getting tired.

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Don't forget that captured women get raped, which makes males feel bad, and their capture is also very demoralizing since they're chicks.

Out of 27 programmers where I work on my current project (totals add to > 27 since some overlap):

5 are female, and 2 are only working part time as both have recently had babies.
1 African American
1 UK American
10 are originally not from America
5 Indian
2 Asian

So it's a pretty good ratio of females for a hard core technology profession. However, it's obviously biased against Americans proper, which is more indicative of our educational system and/or our powerful economy needing highly intelligent, technical minds.

Re:This is getting tired.

[cluke]

I was using graduates as a shorthand for "smart people". Obviously you don't want Einstein running at artillery with a bayonet. Anyway, to paraphrase Bill Hicks "Anyone stupid enough to want to be in the military...should be allowed in."

Re:This is getting tired.

[Anonymous Coward]

no, it's because they would surrender at the first sign of danger and have fallen for whatever BS-PC brainwashing that's rampant at many universites.

Re:This is getting tired.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe, or maybe it's the fact that a society can lose very large amounts of men and still recover within a generation (as one man can father many children simultaneously)

Last time I checked, human beings were still monogamous. People don't go around making babies indiscriminately. Men and women pair up and have children within the confines of marriage. Out-of-wedlock births are still frowned upon, and so is infidelity. A shortage of men means many women will go unmarried, and that means fewer offspring regardless. And even if it suddenly became acceptable for men to impregnate multiple women out of wedlock, who would take care of the resulting offspring? Men are still the primary breadwinners of most households.

Re:This is getting tired.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that captured women get raped, which makes males feel bad, and their capture is also very demoralizing since they're chicks.

As many prisoners will tell you, rape is not exclusively female. Capture and abuse of prisoners is demoralizing to any army.

surprised?

[minus_273]

I am a bit surprised by these numbers:
"Male = 88.5%, Female = 11.5%
White = 83.3%, Black = 2.0%, Hispanic/Latino = 2.5%, Asian = 7.5%, Other = 4.7%"

Sure most employees have college drgrees and therefore there are few blacks and lations (not PC, but sorry, I can't change relaities of different cultures)
but asian is ONLY 7.5%!! WTF? What happened to all the japanese and korean developers?

Re:surprised?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously the stats are measuring US companies. Companies like Nintendo of Japan et al are not based in the US.

Re:surprised?

[6ame633k]

What do people expect from an industry that was FOUNDED by young white male programmers willing to work out of their garages for days on end without seeing the sun living on Velveeta cheese - that IMPRINT will take a long time to change. Anyways, women tend to be more social than men, so programming is not a natural choice for someone who wants to interact with people on a daily basis.

Re:surprised?

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as we're using race and class stereotypes here, we can go ahead and say that the white kids are less likely to need a real job, so they can afford a place in the entertainment industry.

Re:surprised?

[ksheff]

this survey was done by a group in Austin, TX, so it could represent just the local developer community. I would expect a lot more in areas where there are large Asian communities, like SF.

From the author

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't posted on /. in years. To those crowing about how this panel must have been about unfair discrimination, i.e. racism or sexism: please read the report again. No one was accusing anyone of anything other than what was the generally-accepted way of the world. That the vast majority of game developers are young white men who quit (or get fired) before they're 30 could be considered a problem, but not necessarily. According to the panel, pursuing a game job just doesn't occur to very many people who aren't white and male, and those in charge, mindful that their lot is of chocolate-factory glamour, don't bother looking beyond the stack of resumes and contacts submitted every day -- job requests for which there will never be enough actual jobs.

J.

http://www.damnedvulpine.com/

Inequity and Diversity ?

[Jestor Rodo]

And Sony Online Entertainment was on that panel? Muhahahaha !

... a good thing

[darkhaven]

I generally don't reply to these threads because they often degenerate into rantings, but for the sake of clarity I have to say diversity is important because it is American. It is one of the single-most defining characteristic of what this nation is about: different cultures coming together for the pursuit of happiness. I know it's a cliche, but it's true, I'm a game developer in New York City and I see it every day.

But seriously, what diversity gives you is a difference of opinion. You have a larger creative pool to pull your ideas from. Different backgrounds. Experiences. Let's say there were more Blacks in the industry, perhaps there would be less blackploitive games out there like GTA, 187 Ride or Die, Saint's Row, etc. Maybe there might be more. Who knows? At least there would be some authensity and respect for the culture (check out 187 Ride or Die if you don't believe me).

As to the numbers, it's not the college that's the problem. I went to a historically Black college and a career in Video Games was never on the table. That was a long time ago, 1996, and you couldn't even find books on Game Development. Now B&N has a whole section. Go figure. The whole point is that there is a whole chunk of the population that never considered VG as a career. I only did it because I grew up on M.U.L.E, Seven City of Gold, Adventure... but I'm crazy.

Secondly, college is an inventment. Parent expect results. Historically, Black families expect their college graduates to be doctors, lawyers, business majors. Careers that's going generate money. Making games for a living? That 60k is a lie. And you do a ton of hours. Truckloads. Honestly game development is more art than science. And it reflects in the salary.

But it's getting better, I'll seen more people of color in this industry in the last few years, so we'll see. So yeah... diversity is a good thing.