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Ancient Greek Computer Reconstructed
afaik_ianal writes "A working reconstruction of an ancient Greek computer, the Antikythera mechanism, which was found at the bottom of the ocean in 1900 has been unveiled and is on display at the Technopolis museum, in Athens. The device is believed to have been used to calculate the positions of various celestial bodies including the sun and the moon on any given date. While some guesswork was required in the reconstruction, the bulk of the design is based on updated X-ray photographs of the device."
Alpha and the Omega and all that.
Does it run Linux?
... the clockwork owl in Clash of the Titans?
Clearly the ancient Greeks had mechanical technology beyond even modern capabilities!
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
"The Antikythera mechanism, as it is now known, was originally housed in a wooden box about the size of a shoebox, with dials on the outside and a complex assembly of bronze gear wheels within."
Anyone place odds on our gold and copper monstrosities from the 70's on surviving thousands of years and people figuring out what they were used for? There's something to be said about elegantly simple one use devices like calculators.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I'm torn between marveling at the enginuity behind this and pointing out that this is really bluring the line between 'computer' and 'glorified watch'. Even the wikipedia article it links to describes this as a clockwork mechanism.
When the title reads 'ancient greek computer', I would expect something more along the lines of the machine that Babbage designed.
for watching ancient Greek porn.
Clearly the ancient Greeks had mechanical technology beyond even modern capabilities!
HAH! That's NOTHING! What you must see, is their Orichalcum robots!
...which was found at the bottom of the ocean in 1900...
Actually, it was found in 2000. Just that no one thought to correct for Y2K problems!
Homer no function beer well without.
(notice the date, not quite "news")
The Antikythera mechanism
The clockwork computer
Sep 19th 2002
From The Economist print edition
An ancient piece of clockwork shows the deep roots of modern technology
WHEN a Greek sponge diver called Elias Stadiatos discovered the wreck of a cargo ship off the tiny island of Antikythera in 1900, it was the statues lying on the seabed that made the greatest impression on him. He returned to the surface, removed his helmet, and gabbled that he had found a heap of dead, naked women. The ship's cargo of luxury goods also included jewellery, pottery, fine furniture, wine and bronzes dating back to the first century BC. But the most important finds proved to be a few green, corroded lumps--the last remnants of an elaborate mechanical device.
The Antikythera mechanism, as it is now known, was originally housed in a wooden box about the size of a shoebox, with dials on the outside and a complex assembly of bronze gear wheels within. X-ray photographs of the fragments, in which around 30 separate gears can be distinguished, led the late Derek Price, a science historian at Yale University, to conclude that the device was an astronomical computer capable of predicting the positions of the sun and moon in the zodiac on any given date. A new analysis, though, suggests that the device was cleverer than Price thought, and reinforces the evidence for his theory of an ancient Greek tradition of complex mechanical technology.
Michael Wright, the curator of mechanical engineering at the Science Museum in London, has based his new analysis on detailed X-rays of the mechanism using a technique called linear tomography. This involves moving an X-ray source, the film and the object being investigated relative to one another, so that only features in a particular plane come into focus. Analysis of the resulting images, carried out in conjunction with Allan Bromley, a computer scientist at Sydney University, found the exact position of each gear, and suggested that Price was wrong in several respects.
In some cases, says Mr Wright, Price seems to have "massaged" the number of teeth on particular gears (most of which are, admittedly, incomplete) in order to arrive at significant astronomical ratios. Price's account also, he says, displays internal contradictions, selective use of evidence and unwarranted speculation. In particular, it postulates an elaborate reversal mechanism to get some gears to turn in the right direction.
Since so little of the mechanism survives, some guesswork is unavoidable. But Mr Wright noticed a fixed boss at the centre of the mechanism's main wheel. To his instrument-maker's eye, this was suggestive of a fixed central gear around which other moving gears could rotate. This does away with the need for Price's reversal mechanism and leads to the idea that the device was specifically designed to model a particular form of "epicyclic" motion.
The Greeks believed in an earth-centric universe and accounted for celestial bodies' motions using elaborate models based on epicycles, in which each body describes a circle (the epicycle) around a point that itself moves in a circle around the earth. Mr Wright found evidence that the Antikythera mechanism would have been able to reproduce the motions of the sun and moon accurately, using an epicyclic model devised by Hipparchus, and of the planets Mercury and Venus, using an epicyclic model derived by Apollonius of Perga. (These models, which predate the mechanism, were subsequently incorporated into the work of Claudius Ptolemy in the second century AD.)
A device that just modelled the motions of the sun, moon, Mercury and Venus does not make much sense. But if an upper layer of mechanism had been built, and lost, these extra gears could have modelled the motions of the three other planets known at the time--Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. In other words, the device may have been able to predict the positions of the known celestial bodies for any given date with a respectable degre
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
"While some guesswork was required in the reconstruction, the bulk of the design is based on updated X-ray photographs of the device."
Reporter: So what do you think the device is for?
Archaeologist: Well we can't be entirely sure, but if you look at this X-Ray you can see what appears to be a cup-holder.
Greek computers have the fastest processors. No shit. I read it on slashdot.
Hey, it's my OPINION that dogs have eight legs and make a sound like a car horn every time they take a piss.
If the wikipedia article is right, that the clockwork was produced in 87BCE then the clockwork was actually Roman, as the whole of modern and ancient Greece was under Roman control at that time. Also, it's not a computer, it's a damn clockwork.
cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
You saw this thing on the Discovery channel in 1905? Clearly your Clockwork Greek Television was ahead of it's time!
The Linux kernel has been successfully ported to the Antikythera mechanism, The highly distilled version of the kernel reportedly can boot in under 160 years and the process also effectively builds large amounts of forearm muscle in the process. Linuxworld.com calls it the perfect marrige between grassroot technological history and modern innovation, Steve Jobbs is currently preparing to manufacture a mini version of the Antikythera mechanism which will eventually make it's way into every Apple product. Microsoft has called the Antikythera mechanism the most astonishing technologinal innovation the world and microsoft have ever seen, Bill Gates said in an interview, "It's changing the way we have looked at computer technology completely, throughout the entire reign of microsoft we have never even considered this master-designed technology!"
the greeks were geeks. :P
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Has anyone else noticed that the Economist article linked is from 2002?
Does anyone else find it slightly amusing that Wikipedia stamps a big warning across the page as soon as it gets Slashdotted? Complete with a warning to look out for trolls? I'm sure it's not new, but I guess I've just always ignored it in the past.
/. article from now on.
It's brilliant. Maybe we should include one at the top of every
On a sidenote, wouldn't it make sense to link to the static version of a Wikipedia entry page, rather than the top / dynamic one? I guess it would detract from the whole editable purpose of Wikipedia, but in terms of providing a reference -- which is what this article is using it for -- it seems like it would be safer to link against a static page of a specific revision, and then let people see the newest version if they wanted to.
Of course if they did that, we'd never get to see their 'Do Not Feed The Trolls' warning.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
People in Ancient Greece over two thousand years ago had many things the US and other Western countries claim to have invented much later. Everything from democracy, theater, architecture, clocks, mechanical toys, Hero's heat engines, sport competitions, etc. Not only they knew that the Earth was round, they even managed to measure its diamemeter. They are the fathers of mathematics, which is the mother of all knowledge. Ancient Chinese and Egyptians had bits and pieces of mathematical knowledge but they failed to grasp the big picture and unlike the Greeks did not develop any axiomatic system or the concept of a mathematical proof.
Truly an amazing people, I think they had the greatest impact on world culture, much greater than the Romans, Assirians, Sumerians, Chinese, Japanese or any other old or modern civilization (including the American civilization).
Sure today's Greeks are not the same as the Ancient Greeks. Nevertheles I feel sad when Modern Greeks are made fun of by other peoples (including Americans).
By the way I am not Greek or related to any Greek folks.
How long before someone writes a Trojan horse for it?
Well, I also use it to read /.
But the watch part is far more productive.
My guess is that its an analogue conputer, but there is a good chance that its a clock.
If you are familiar with Ptolemy's "Almagest" you know he models the solar system as a series of epicycles. Until Copernicus' time (and after) European and Arab teaching was that these mechanisms were the physical reality but Ptolomy never actually endorsed that view. What if the "Almagest" was the specs for a dedicated astronomical computer and the Antikythera mechanism is the implimentation?
Then again...clocks became simpler over the centuries. Our modern clocks only show hours, minutes, seconds and perhaps the date. Mediaeval clocks showed years, months, weeks, days and hours as well as planetary positions, seasons, and solar and lunar eclipses. Their mechanisms were more complex than mechanical clocks and watches (remember them?) produced in the 20th century. Mechanical clocks built in the 1970s were more accurate but less complex than mechanical clocks built in the 1270s in Europe. Clocks built in earlier centuries in Arab lands were equally complex. The Antikythera mechanism could have been just one in a line of astronomical clocks.
This might be old news but it is just a reminder that people from ancient times were not stupid. The people around Mediterranean were smart and understand how things work.
Also make note of Heron of Alexandria. A great Greek inventor who invented machine gun, steam power, vending machine and many other mechanical machines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria
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This clockwork planetary displaying device is (today) properly called an orrery, although it predates the Earl of Orrery by about 18 centuries. It also predates the astrolabe by about a thousand years, too.
Not that you can't use an orrery to occasionally tell the date, but much of the time you won't have enough information to get a valid reading. It's completely useless during the day, and even at night some of the planets are usually "too near" the sun to be visible. Occasionally, the planetary alignment is such that none of the "visible" planets can be seen for weeks at a time.
Also note that an orrery doesn't necessarily provide "altitude" information. I'm unaware of any hand-held clockwork orreries that do (including modern ones.) While you can base the date on azimuth readings of the planets, many of them move so slowly across the night sky that it could be difficult to make an accurate reading; especially with the tools of 87 B.C. The fixed stars are much easier to locate, and altitude is much, much easier to read than azimuth (gravity is a much easier reference to use than some concept of north.)
John
If the Antikythera mechanism was made by different outfits in ancient Greece:
Apollo: The mechanism would be highly polished in a mahogany box with an observation window that would crack due to poor workmanship and high profit margins. Device only works within a 10 sq. mile area around Athens. Anywhere else and it's off.
Microsofticus: The mechanism would be essentially the same as the original, except some planets would be in different locations for 'efficiency' and 'because it runs faster that way.' Pebbles would bounce into the device via conspicuous holes and users would have to purchase a security contract from Symanticus. Not recorded in historical literature because nobody knew how it worked. Re-assembly from rusty bits required legions of scientists.
Zeus Microsystems: The mechanism would be painted purple and lilac and probably have some confetti around a highly stylized Sun logo on the outside. Giant purple globe in center of device would confound scientists for decades. Works, but gets slower with every passing decade, even though the underlying architecture is salvagable.
Linux Maximus: Device was buried with engineering diagrams in air-tight, humidity-controlled box at Delphi. Instructions for re-assembly (which it doesn't need) are also recorded within the device itself in every language known at the time as well as with pictures. Does what it needs to do and little else. Also, device was heavily cited in the historical literature and anyone was free to build one as long as they had access to commmodity blacksmith parts. Can be modified to suit different galactic locations, as well, with little effort.
Hewletticus-Packardus: Originally a papyrus-ink outfit, H.P., decided to get into the astronomy business because its archon, Sappho, wanted to. Ended up building poor version and purchased Compacticus to try and fix things. Didn't happen and Sappho went to Lesbos to become a poet with a zillion Drachma severence pay and H.P. just had to deal.
So they've copied a several thousand year old computer, software and hardware. Surely there's a lawsuit there somewhere.
Cogito, ergo sig.
It'll definately run Oracle
statues lying on the seabed that made the greatest impression on him. He returned to the surface, removed his helmet, and gabbled that he had found a heap of dead, naked women.
A computer AND pr0n? They need to check their spellings. This was most certainly a geek ship, not a Greek ship.
All comments are properties and trademarks of the voices in my head. Not like I'm gonna claim them.
Helluva nice guy, though.
Sorry. Seemed a little Monty Python-esque.
Good-bye, sweet karma.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
The linked Economist article says that ancient Greeks (I am Greek) believed in a universe where Earth was at its centre. I don't agree with that. Geocentrism was the most accepted theory, but not all Greeks believed it. There were Heliocentrists in ancient Greece. Search Google for Greek and Heliocentrism and see what you can find. Learn about Aristarchus of Samos.
I've spent an afternoon in the Archaeological Museum in Athens and without knowing the story stumbled upon this thing (no mention of the "clock/computer" in the weblog post though). It is impressive to look at, among the other ancient stuff it has an otherworldly air, it's not impressive in the sense of how big or complex it looks. Of course you can't see that much from the object itself, but I can imagine that people first looked at it and noticed that there is something really unusual about gears appearing in something so old.
The bronze exhibition also has other fine worked small stuff (and the gold stuff exhibition has even smaller and more detailed worked stuff), so I give the old Greeks the ability to work on this level. Perhaps not your neighbourhood blacksmith, but some experts were definitely able to do this level of work.
Ancient Greeks (I am Greek) had built complete moving planetaria from before 212 BCE. They had the knowledge and the technology to predict and actually show the movements of all planets they knew about. Ancient Greeks also had simple small steam engines and pumps.
Vandals go for max exposure. Thus when the link is on /., it's going to get a lot of exposure, thereby increasing the attractiveness of vandalizing the page.
By the same token, no one tags the inside of railroad cars...
Kent Brockman: I, for one, welcome our new Greek overlords.
Kent Brockman (listens to earpiece)
Kent Brockman: This just in, the classical Greek civilization fell thousands of years ago. And I, for one, welcome back our Republican overlords.
Education is the silver bullet.
I hear the Ipod's thumbwheel navigation patent is now endangered by prior art...
Some settling may occur during posting.
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/Spr ing03/Antikythera.html
You make a very interesting point although I disagree completely with your statement that "we accept the inaccurate model [global warming] on faith and reject the accurate model that this device "proves"."
Neither scientist nor scientific process accepts models based on faith. Current theories in science are always based on best-fit models of the observable facts. No scientist claims that new models won't supplant older theories as newer, better, more accurate observations are made. But the burden of proof when claiming a theory is wrong is on the scientist with the new idea or new observation. He must show why the new observation is relevent and why the current theory fails to account for the new observation. This keeps real crackpots (e.g. intelligent design advocates) at bay while eventually accepting the good ideas (e.g. Warren and Marshall's ulcer theory). Yes, this can often take awhile and the process is subject to the many frailties of humans. But overall, the process works quite well.
And your post should not have been modded off-topic.
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