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Are Skimpy Raises the New Normal?

Lam1969 writes "Computerworld just released their latest salary survey, and it finds that IT worker bees have once again only received small raises. The article notes, "IT raises still lagged slightly behind the average of about 3.2% for all U.S. workers as reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. While the majority of respondents (69%) said their 2004 base salary increased from one year ago, 31% experienced either no change in salary or had their pay cut." It goes on to quote LAN specialist Stephen Noisseau as saying, "I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles ... I'll take 4% over nothing. We're getting basically cost-of-living raises.""

28 of 736 comments (clear)

  1. Welcome to reality.... by Duncan3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We're getting basically cost-of-living raises.

    Welcome to the way the rest of the universe works. Be glad you even got that. Most poeple have to find new jobs to get a raise at all.

    Don't worry, I'm sure another bubble will be along to get you a 100% raise every 6 months like the good ol days.

    --
    - Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
    1. Re:Welcome to reality.... by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly... Around here (Ohio) the job market is so bad, for both degreed and non degreed workers, that people seem happy just to keep their jobs, raise or not. Sometimes it seems that employers create an atmosphere where everyone thinks that they are an inch from unemployment, so they don't have to give raises...

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    2. Re:Welcome to reality.... by forand · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think I have heard this type of argument before. . . OH YEAH that was it when slave owners told their slaves that they were better off being slaves in the US than being godless in Africa. My point is that one should not have to be "glad" that they are getting a cost of living increase in pay. Convincing people that they should be happy in a bad situation isn't doing anyone any good. In the long run you are correct that people will have to look for different jobs to get the money they need just to maintain their standard of living which will hurt the employer. Similarly switching jobs like this plays havic with many retirment plans which will hurt the employee in the long run. Just because it is the way it is doesn't mean anyone should be happy about it.

    3. Re:Welcome to reality.... by heinousjay · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here's something I've noticed - take it as you will.

      People that have the attitude of entitlement, that someone must take care of them, that they deserve increases, tend to do worse in the long run over people who believe they are owed nothing and must earn every penny.

      All my evidence is strictly anecdotal, so I won't bother detailing it. Feel free to discount this.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    4. Re:Welcome to reality.... by elgatozorbas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually a raise equal to the cost of living sounds rather fair to me. If everybody would get a raise significantly higher than the cost of living, things (produced by those employees) would become more expensive too, making the cost of living follow the increase. It is like saying 'everybody should be above average', no?

    5. Re:Welcome to reality.... by StillAnonymous · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But that discounts your increasing experience and (hopefully) better performance at your job that occurs each year.

      If there's no raise, there's no incentive to work harder. Unless of course you're easy to replace and your experience doesn't matter to the company...

    6. Re:Welcome to reality.... by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This atmosphere could backfire as well. If people feel like their job is at risk they are (or at least should be) looking for new jobs as we speak. If the economy picks up just slightly they could loose their best staff.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    7. Re:Welcome to reality.... by timmarhy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      way to have shit staff. i've been in that position and you end up with a constant stream of sub par staff who leave you at the drop of a hat. retraining costs money, you'd better of hanging on to staff with a clue if you can. it doesn't take huge pay rises to keep people, just a sense they are being paid well for a job well done.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    8. Re:Welcome to reality.... by Yossarian45793 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've left one thing out of your math. Workers get older and gain experience. More experienced workers are worth more than fresh college grads (in some industries, at least). If experience matters in your industry, you should expect raises somewhat higher than the cost of living increases as you get older. The reason this doesn't cause runaway cost of living increases is that people eventually retire and are replaced by new college grads.

    9. Re:Welcome to reality.... by stinerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One thing I always notice is that conservatives tend to have been born into middle and upper-middle class families and have had ample opportunity to make something of themselves, while those who are more liberal (read: socialist if in Europe) have not had such opportunities. I think this has something to do with the trend you describe. Conservatives miss the point that not every has had the same opportunities, while liberals don't quite get that sometimes it is the fault of the poor man that he is poor.

      The causality of the situation will be debated until the end of time. Are people unsuccessful because they are lazy, or are people lazy because they are unsuccessful? I'll decline to share my view for fear of starting an offtopic flamewar. All the same, it is an interesting question.

    10. Re:Welcome to reality.... by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Way to be callous, man. A 2% raise... adjusted for cost of living, that's actually a pay cut.

      Health care costs are up, gas costs twice as much as it did a year ago, houses are unaffordable - up 85% in the past year - in any location where there are jobs, but you can't live far away because you can't afford to commute, and yet you can't work for some small town company with no health benefits...

      I didn't get a piece of the Dot-Com bubble, and now that we're on the downside of it, there are no jobs that pay a living wage, and lots of us are looking for other ways to make a living. It'll come back around, and salaries will become more consistant with cost of living... but in the mean time, I wonder about whether or not I should take my 1 year old to the hospital or if his cough is going to get better on its own with time and generic robitussin, because the emergency room doctors here don't participate with my independant keycare health plan and I really can't afford it.

      Save your harsh words for the realtors, man. All I'm trying to do is scrape by and take care of my family.

      ~Will

      --
      sig?
    11. Re:Welcome to reality.... by IdleTime · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I and the rest of my cowrkers do such a good job that the company makes a few billion dollars in profit each year and the company raise the price of our prodcts each year, but have problem giving the employees the slightest wage increase. THAT is the real problem, the company I work for and many, many others are having record years, the owners fortunes increases drastically each year because we do such a good job, WE, not THEY, because without us, they would not be rich, but without them, we couls still produce and sell the same product.

      Nobody is talking about entitlements here, that is a typical right wing talking point without foothold in reality.

      Over the past 6 years, we haven't even gotten cost of living raises, basically resulting in making LESS and LESS money each year.

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    12. Re:Welcome to reality.... by suitepotato · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I grew up in a housing project on welfare (back before it became like it is today when it wasn't even a handout and you could only hope relatives better off than you treated you to a McDonald's basic cheeseburger once every few months and hotdogs with macaroni and cheese was eaten three times a week). I'm not remotely liberal. The only poor people who truly believe in the left are those who are permanently poor and broken. Those who get wealthy and still profess belief in it are part of the lie that liberalism is and has been since the words "liberal" and "liberalism" were stolen by the leftists from the old style liberals who were if anything more like the true conservatives of today.

      The horesh*t about not everyone having the same opportunities falls flat and exposed as such when you consider that every year people come here from nations where poverty isn't defined as being able to afford digital cable, a projection screen TV, leather couches, and a $30K SUV while living on welfare and foodstamps (I used to install said cable for said people while they sat on said leather couches screaming at each other over who spent the money that should have gone towards the baby's diapers; drugs? working under the table and collecting? who am I to even ask?). It's defined as "will there be any food tomorrow?".

      They come here, work hard, sacrifice mightily, just as they did every day just to live where they came from, and such pays off here where it didn't there. How is it that people come here from places where fortunate isn't a tax payer run apartment building but a scrap metal roof instead of one made of rotten scrap boards, and make it so much better?

      Does anyone think that these largely non-white people are getting a break and aren't the victims of racism and bigotry? Does anyone think "the man" is going easy on them? That they have special opportunities that people here four generations or more don't?

      They point up what American families need to do to be fruitful: stick together, work hard for the common good of the family, put off what you want right now for what you need later, and think of each other over your self. If people think this should be a world where individuals can think only of themselves and be as wealthy as they want all by themselves, they need to realize that's not generally the rule no matter what Hollywood seems like. Long term stable success is a lot of long hard work usually. If you're not up to the cost, don't step up. Stay in the project eating macaroni and cheese and sitting on your front porch staring at the beat up Camaro that you haven't got the money to get on the road. Or scamming the system while crying it doesn't pay you enough money to afford the newest X-Box game.

      I may scramble from job to job to keep my income paying a mortgage and ten dozen other bills, but I'd rather be doing this for my family than letting them sit around without hope living at the mercy of others.

      --
      If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
    13. Re:Welcome to reality.... by Bill+Dog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If your company could replace people with less-skilled counterparts, then they probably should've done so long ago.

      Here's what it is with most companies: After a while they take you for granted, and are no longer interested in paying you what you're worth. But to another company you're all new and shiny and irresistably mysterious, so they'll offer you more to lure you away. So your old company now has to pay market value+ to replace you, so they're now paying *more* for someone 1) they don't know, and 2) who's not familiar with the code base and procedures for getting reimbursed for travel etc. Each company would be better off working to retain the competent that are already up-to-speed on that company's stuff, but instead they in effect force musical chairs amongst all but the dead wood.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
    14. Re:Welcome to reality.... by sangdrax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is not about the people who are able and smart. They have the power to make the choices you have and become more succesfull than the people from their environment.

      It is about the people who do not have above-average skills. In rich environments, they start out decent, and have (through connections, background and money) an easier time getting a decent job. If not, they still have something to fall back on. If something in their life goes wrong (with financial impact, which it often has) before they finish education, they have a far better chance of recovering.

      In poor environments, the options are more limited. You plainly have to work a lot harder for food and shelter, and education. Once harder work has to be done to get succesful, fewer will succeed (doh!).

      The idea that everyone is capable of everything is a myth. Let alone regardless of connections and money. This has little to do with mindset.

  2. Raises shouldn't be the norm by heinousjay · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is it really a valid expectation to automatically get a salary increase? What happened to earning it? I feel pretty confident in saying that 69% of all workers didn't perform above average, so why should they be expecting a reward?

    --
    Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    1. Re:Raises shouldn't be the norm by MoonBuggy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The first thing that springs to mind is inflation. No raise is the equivalent of a pay cut, taking into account the fact that your salary buys less as time goes on.

  3. 0% raise is a pay cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And keep in mind that a 0% raise is actually a pay cut, due to inflation. If you're not averaging about a 2% raise every year, your income in terms of buying power is declining.

  4. 3-4% really is the norm by SupahVee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And while I may whine about the fact that most of the time I have to jump jobs to get a raise, if I hung around those places, i'd probably be likely to get the 3-4% every year or so, and I don't really have a problem with that.

    What I do have a problem with is when I only get a 3-4% raise, yet, executives can give themselves 50% raises, 4 million dollar bonuses, etc. There is nothing a CEO can produce that warrants that level of compensation. PERIOD.

    I say we find somebody crazy enough in congress to propose a salary cap for CEO's bill. Then tell everyone in the public about it, and see how many people really support something like that. Especially when the workers outnumber the C-level's probably 100 to 1.

    --
    "See, we plan ahead! That way, we never have to do anything now."
  5. The paradox by Y-Crate · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What always gets me every time we have a discussion about raises is that any call for pay increases to the rank and file is met with fierce opposition by those who claim it will obliterate the economy via inflation and will rob shareholders of their rightful gains while sending corporations reeling into bankruptcy.

    So, I must pose the question, why is it perfectly fine for managers (especially those in the upper echelons) hand out massive raises to themselves and their cronies that are often the equivalent of several times the average salary of their subordinates? The typical CEO makes 450 times as much as the average person they employ. Even when business is bad, layoffs are rampant and wages stagnant, the raises for the managers continue - because according to them, poor performance is always the fault of the lower rungs, while good quarters are always thanks to their expert stewardship.

    The auto parts company Delphi is asking for their non-management staff to accept 50-69% pay cuts, (these workers were described as being basically worthless in a speech the CEO gave two weeks ago) while the managers that have presided over the company sliding into bankruptcy are going to get massive raises.

    Please explain who spending tons of money to compensate workers who are being asked to produce more per hour, work more hours and accept fewer fringe benefits like comprehensive healthcare coverage is some evil, evil thing that shall destroy every company and drive them into bankruptcy, while distributing the same amount of money to the higher ups is no problem whatsoever?

  6. here's a good interview tip by Surt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ask your prospective employer if they offer superior raises to overperforming employees, and what kind of range such a raise might be in.

    I always ask this question, and as a result, i've never had a raise less than 9%.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  7. Re:Disorganized Labor by Usquebaugh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Organized Labour = Paying for tyrant who tells you to stop work.

    I lived through the 70s & 80s in the UK. Unions help nobdy but those elected to an office within the union.

    I'd rather join the bloody masons than a union and I consider the masons scum.

  8. Be prepared to quit by ucblockhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Many places flat out lie. Be prepared to quit. It's often the only way to get a real raise. There was one place that, after I had worked there nearly a year, gave me a 2.25% raise, claiming that it was "all they could do". So I went and got another job. When I have notice, they offered me an immediate 10% raise if I'd stay. I laughed at them, and suggested that if they would give decent raises, they wouldn't have such a problem keeping good people.

    Unfortunately, there's too many saps out there who complain about shit raises, but won't go out and do something about it. Don't like your raise? Get a new job, and then when you leave, tell them exactly why. If more people did that, raises would be higher for everyone.

    --
    The cake is a pie
  9. Re:Hard Times by keraneuology · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Somebody must have imparted a momentary impulse to a patellar tendon because I just saw a knee jerk.

    I do not begrudge effective, honest and successful CEOs their salaries. If they earn it, they earn it.

    BUT

    Ovitz did not deserve $140 million. Ken Lay did not earn his $42 million in 1999. Ebbers did not deserve a guaranteed 1.5 million annual pay for life. Jure Sola did not earn his $20 million bonus for hitting targets one quarter out of 16 as the investors in the company saw shares fall 78%.

    The complaint isn't how much CEOs make... it is how much BAD CEOs make. Could I perform as well as a CEO? Well, pay me $1,000,000/month and I'll see if I can drive the nation's largest retailer into the ground along with 57,000 jobs like Chuck Conaway did.

    Why do companies exist? To generate profit. If the CEO can't do that then the CEO needs to be replaced. And if the CEO is engaged in any sort of corruption, fraud or outright stupidity then he has to go.

    Are all CEO's inept, devoid of skill and undeserving of large salaries? Absolutely not. Only a silly extremist would make such a claim.

    However. I find it inexcusable to tell the employees that there isn't enough money for raises (or even adequate equipment) then siphon off several times the profit for one overpaid and underworked twit who just isn't bringing any value to the organization.

    --
    If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
  10. And Congress just approved more Visa workers by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cheap-labor lobbyists bribed Congress to increase the H-1B tech visa limit recently. Lobbyists keep saying there is a "shortage" of techies, but there is no objective evidence to back them. Tech unemployment is still high by historical and population relative standards, and salaries have been flat. Why don't they pick on lawyers for a change? Why, because lawyers have (or use) power, we don't.

    If we don't collectively apply political pressure, they will do to our field what they have done to agricultural workers.

  11. Short answer: YES... by quarkscat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Or they (Like my company) will replace these people..."

    Meager wage increases (if you get them at all) are now the norm rather than the exception. The change to labor laws under George W. Bush were not an anomally -- your employer now expects you to work longer hours for less pay and benefits. Consider yourself lucky if your job hasn't already been offshore outsourced, or not in the planning stages. Your 401K overseas investments are growing fastest because you are helping to finance your company's globalization. But do not expect to gain enough from these investments to make up for when your job finally disappears overseas -- it won't.

    The government's job is no longer to be of any particular benefit to you -- only to your employer. The tax cuts, tax loopholes, and outright federal grants were never intended for you, but for your employers. There was never any possibility that your political campaign contributions would ever provide the politicians with either an evenhanded or even populist world view -- you cannot compete with your employers when it comes to buying those politicians because they do not come cheap.

    Expect that the time will come when your job will disappear overseas, or that your employer will replace you with cheaper imported (L1-A or H1-B) labor. And do not expect that you can fall back on the experience from those summer construction jobs you took while a student -- those jobs are now taken by the hundreds of thousands of illegal alien laborers that have continued to pour across our borders. This is no accident, but a concerted effort by the George W. Bush administration to force all wages down for his corporate sponsers. Between open borders, the INS "catch and release" policies, and zero enforcement against employers hiring illegal aliens, the plan is to do for domestic skilled blue collar jobs what has been done to the shoe, textile, steel, and IT white collar jobs.

    The only substantial wage and benefit increases are destined for the pockets of upper management and the executive board room, and especially for those companies who not only cater to government contracting but also make the largest campaign contributions. And by the way, don't make too much noise when you protest the current status quo, because the term "terrorist" is largely undefined in the latest and greatest version of the US Patriot Act.

    Welcome to "1984", and be certain to take your daily dose of "soma". Not taking your meds could provide you with an extended stay at Club Med - Gitmo.

  12. Whine, Moan, Bitch, Complain? by bleckywelcky · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Um, I think 4% is pretty standard for anyone across any industry that is considered a worker that gets their work done in a timely fashion and in good order. If you want that 10% raise, you better be implementing procedures to save the company millions of dollars and make sure your management knows about it. The only justification you could make for a higher raise while "just doing your job" would be for a smaller company where the earnings are more transparent to the workers. If there's only 30 people at the company and profits rise 30% over the year due to everyone "just doing their job", then yeah, a higher raise is arguable. But all that fancy stuff you do as a server admin for a large company, managing server space, making backups, handling software licensing schemes, that's all your job. You're expected to do it and do it reasonably well, that's why you were hired. And in return, you can expect a cost-of-living raise plus a small service incentive increase. The average raise at my company this year will be about 3.5% and I'll be content with that. Mainly because I'm still learning some of the processes and I don't know how everyone else will review my performance thus far. While I think I've done a great job on everything I've worked on, I figure that's what is expected of me. But if I end up patenting some new technologies in the coming year that I believe will help the company, I may feel different. If you can backup your claim for a higher raise, then by all means go for it. But don't sit there and whine that you only get 4% for just doing your job.

    Besides, hasn't anyone ever told you? You don't get rich working for someone else.

  13. And another thing... by sallgeud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The vast majority of my family owns their own business or works for one of the members who does. As someone with experience on both ends of the spectrum... company ownership and working for "The Man"(tm)... I can say for certain that the primary reason most people are offered 2% (or whatever) raises, is because the boss or bosses are fairly certain they can get away with it. Sometimes this backfires. In a company with highly skilled and specialized folks, this can often mean you lose some of your best employees. Either way it's all a calculated risk. Questions that are asked:

    Is the cost of the additional salary more or less than the cost of replacing the potential loss of personel?

    What percentage of those who find other jobs can be lured back in with an offer for a bit more?

    Is the product produced by the employee worth the money being paid?

    Can an employee that costs less create the same quality of product in the same amount of time?

    In the end, if you truely believe you're worth more than you make, and the company you work for seems unwilling to compensate you in this manner, everyone is better off if you find that job. In reality, your true market value is only what the highest bidder will pay. And, in our current job market, there are typically at least a dozen people willing to do what you do for the same or less... supply and demand at its best.