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The H-1B Swindle
An anonymous reader writes "A new study shows that companies hire foreign workers for cheap labor, not skill." From the article:"When you look at computer job titles by state, California has one of the biggest differentials between OES salaries and H-1B salaries. The average salary for a programmer in California is $73,960, according to the OES. The average salary paid to an H-1B visa worker for the same job is $53,387; a difference of $20,573 ... H-1B visa workers were also concentrated at the bottom end of the wage scale, with the majority of H-1B visa workers in the 10-24 percentile range. 'That means the largest concentration of H-1B workers make less than [the] highest 75 percent of the U.S. wage earners,' the report notes. "
This hasn't been news since 1997.
I am currently in the US on an H1-B (married to a US citizen, so on track for a green card) and so a little about this process... albeit for a non-tech (university professor) job.
The H1-B rules state that an employer has to pay prevailing wages/salary for a position, precisely so that H1-B is not used as a way of undercutting the local job market. The application has to go by the State Employment Services Agency to verify the prevailing wage. Also, a company has to post notices regarding H1-B hires that mention salary details.
Unless they are a salaryed employee, unpaid overtime is illegal.
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A quick look at travel.yahoo.com says I can send an indian worker back to India TONIGHT for $1778 going Chicago(ORD) -> Newark(EWR) -> Hong Kong(HKG) -> Bangladesh(DAC)
Given that HKG is in China, and near Taiwan, and the rest of asia is even closer I think that about covers that.
Nice try, but please, save it.
Having dated a Taiwanese girl, I can tell you first hand that they:
a) pay for the visa processing out of their own pocket.
b) have to work the first two months withount pay while their visas process, otherwise the company will find someone else in the meantime.
c) are paid less than they deserve, but think it's generous that they get a job at all, and so accept far less than they can negotiate.
d) send half of what they make back home, because $500 a month buys a lot of stuff in taiwan.
e) get really pissed when their sister back home blows the excess cash on american designer jeans instead of paying her college tuition.
Posted AC because GF reads slashdot.
In other words, I strongly suspect that the data can partly be explained with the lower average experience (or time on the job, if you will) of H1-B holders. I certainly see that at my workplace.
I work for a quickly growing 600 employee company with a significant H-1B percentage. Part of my job is interviewing and recommending engineers. I have never been pressured to hire an H1-B candidate over a permanent resident or a citizen. Our one and only concern is qualification. I've also never seen a case where the hiring team's choice of a candidate was overruled on the basis of cost.
An American is either a native, naturally born citizen or a naturalized immigrant. The H-1b visa is a "non-immigrant" visa, not intended for use by immigrants.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
You can only hold an H1-B visa for 6 years (3 years plus 1 renewal). After that you either get a green card or go home. The "job titles" compared (e.g. Programmer/analyst) are sufficiently general that they seem to be comparing H1-B holders right out of school with little expereience, to more senior people. It makes sense that the less experienced people get paid less.
I would be happy with that $53000 too. I get less than half of that!
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
No comment.
Most H1B's are folks who've been in the workforce for a relatively shorter period of time. Most H1Bs are actually dual-status, which means they are applying for a Green Card while working as an H1B. Green Card processing typically takes 4-5 years. They are not classified as H1Bs once they get their Green Cards - which coincides with them acquiring additional experience and raises.
I make more money now than when I was an H1B and it has nothing to do with my visa status and everything to do with the fact that I have more experience doing what I do now than I did before.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Hong Kong is not in China contrary to what you have heard . Hong Kong borders China and is not fully part of China until 2047. In 1997 the British started the hand over process to the Chinese, where the next 50 years the one country - two systems policy is being implemented. Hong Kong is designated SAR, which stands for Special Administrative Region. If you go to Hong Kong they will give you a free tourist visa at the airport and then if you try to cross over to China's border you'll probably need to buy a visa if you are American or citizen of several western countries due to diplomatic reciprocity fees. The American State Department also makes the distinction between China and Hong Kong SAR.
As a matter of fact, the United States is *ALREADY* importing nurses from literally every country on the planet.
The problem is that, due to managed care, nursing wages are low, nursing workloads are high, wards are running on skeleton crews, and the nurses aren't stupid. They're getting out of nursing faster than the domestic nursing schools can graduate new ones.
There have already been a couple of cases of U.S. hospital wards where the operating language was Tagalog, not English. This is OK as long as all the nurses speak both languages, not so good if the Filipino nurses only speak halting English, and pure hell for any US-born nurses who don't speak Tagalog. Not to mention the effects on quality of patient care...
Incidentally, the foreign-born nurses aren't entirely happy with the situation, either. Yes, the money is good, but they really don't like some of the things they see happening with quality of care and nursing workload any more than the US nurses do. (I had a very interesting chat one night, while I was hospitalized, with a Filipino nurse some years ago.)
An L-1 visa, just like any other visa, does not carry a mystical "tax free" stamp on it. L-1 visa holders pay their respective taxes just like everybody else. I for one, consider taxes to be a contribution society.
In fact, the purpose of an L-1 visa is to be a temporary work permit for employees/managers so that companies can expand their operations, introduce new business methods, train new staff etc. in the US to fortify the company's future position within the US, thus benefitting the country in both the short and the long term.
The article didn't make mention of the recently passed H-1 (and L-1) reform act that went into effect this summer. It requires that such workers be paid the higher of two salaries: (a) OES published salaries, or (b) what the company pays others for such work. Not to say that this can't be abused, but the old system made salary abuse by the employer much easier.
Well let's see:
Point 1) Our US students that go beyond a BSEE tend to get an MBA. It is easier and typically pays better than a MSEE. More respect in business and shorter hours as well.
In fact a few years ago the Dean of the School of Management PO'd local CEOs of high tech companies by saying that they needed to raise salaries and treat engineers better - right after the CEO pi--ed and moaned that they could not hire enough US engineers. [Personally, I'd be bored to tears as an MBA but that is me.]
Point 2) My wife (an MD) makes a lot more than I do... I have a PhD and similar numbers of years of experince. Finally my older brother a JD (lawyer) makes a lot more then me. Both of them are treated better as well. I guess our students are not all that dumb. But then this feeds right into your next point. US businesses do not really care about engineers and there is no real respect for the field. [Again, I'd go nuts in almost any other field - but that is me and I am not typical.]
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Do you think a law degree or a medical degree is so lucrative compared to a good engineering degree?
You forgot an MBA. Regardless, the answer to your qestion, here in the US, is generally *yes*.
Now, most doctors (at least the ones I know) work crazy hours, and their job description is increasing crappy, thanks to our wonderful health care system. And corporate lawyers (at least the ones I know) tend to work crazy hours, and man I can't imagine anything more life-sucking than corporate law.
Me, I am trained as an evironmental engineer, but chose to cash out as a management consultant instead. I'm becoming increasingly dissatisfied, though, and plan at some point to give up some $ for something more meaningful with less travel (young kids at home).
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Do you think a law degree or a medical degree is so lucrative compared to a good engineering degree?
1. More stable. Tech has a history of volitility and constant change (some think that is good, until you are 52 and nobody wants you)
2. More upward mobility. Tech may pay relatively well early, but it tends to flatten after that.
3. More political protection from globalism because they are better organized as trade groups.
Table-ized A.I.
Do you think a law degree or a medical degree is so lucrative compared to a good engineering degree?
I don't know about the US, but here in the UK I have the distinct impression that a top lawyer will be earning more than a top engineer could ever hope to. For example, I've never heard of a programmer charging more than about £1000/day, while I have heard of lawyers charging £1750/hour. (Of course they won't be pulling that in 8 hours/day, but even 1 hour/day gives them 75% more than the programmer, plus potentially a boat-load of free time)
It's official. Most of you are morons.
He said 'compete', moron! Not walk-in-here-coz-anyone-can. its you who fails to appriciate the logical or critical thinking.
dont care if u are american or not but by your parameters you are def a crappy engineer.
fyi america does have immigration rules and any HI-B that you do see around you are in fact competing. Not just for your jobs and salaries but they've already competed and beaten hundreds probably thousands of others in their own country before getting a work visa.
Now if you do want to keep thinking that they are all crappy engineers then so be it. Just dont be too surprised when you find urself saying "would u like fries with that, Sir" quicker than u think.