MS Office 12 To Utilize ODF?

J. Random Luser writes "Groklaw is carrying a story about Microsoft quietly engaging a French company to develop Open Document filters for Office 12, due out mid-2006. The SourceForge project claims to be an import filter for MS Office, and that is how the developer describes it. But ZDNet quotes Ray Ozzie as talking about an export filter from MS Office, and this french blog takes Ozzie at his word. Ostensibly the tarball unpacks as OpenOfficePlugin, and SourceForge has the WindowsInstaller.msi listed as 'platform independent'." From the ZDNet article: "Ozzie told me that supporting ODF in Office isn't a matter of principle. Microsoft isn't opposed to supporting other formats. The company just announced support for PDF, and he added that the Open Office XML format has an 'extremely liberal' license."

Comments

Utilize isn't the same as support

[Reality Master 201]

It's one thing to read/write a document format through a filter.

It's another to utilize the format, i.e., as the underlying default storage format.

Re:Utilize isn't the same as support

[smallpaul]

* OpenDocument Format is a legal mine-field. As stated previously OpenDocument is a subset of MsOffice format, any attempt my MS to Extend the format, or any perceived crippling of output (conversion from ms->opendocument --- downgrade) will leave Microsoft wide open to billion dollar anti-trust, anti-competitive, lawsuits from all the other members of the OpenDocument committee - please remember Ms had to pay Sun Micrososystems 2Billion US (Sun is also OpenDocument committee Member).

That's just silly. Microsoft has hundreds of import/export filters with varying levels of quality. Nobody would ever implement import/export if it were possible to be sued by standards bodies or their member companies. Why hasn't anyone sued them over Word's horrible HTML? Ths Java situation was totally different. Java was not (and is not!) a standard. Microsoft was only allowed to redistribute Java because they entered into a conract with Sun. They violated that contract. Therefore they were sued. Half-assed OpenDocument support is not even remotely comparable. Half-assed OpenDocument support would be simply Microsoft doing business as always.

How to get the State of MA to upgrade

[lseltzer]

You know, it's kind of clever: Support it, but only in the new version.

Re:How to get the State of MA to upgrade

[jacksonj04]

I know this is going to sound bizzare, and possibly get me flamed into oblivion, but what if this is a genuine change in the way MS is thinking about business?

For a long time MS has been around locking people in to their own formats and systems, but I think with the advent of the internet MS has realised that the most money lies in integrating with existing systems. Having well designed products which can talk to everything else is a big plus, they have brand recognition to begin with, and even if everything talks in open standards Microsoft can still sell their 'solution'. SharePoint, Exchange, Active Directory, Outlook, Office and Windows is currently a tightly integrated system, what's to stop MS making it use open standards and basing their business model on the fact that they can then sell the entire bundle to companies, with a unified administration system (Group Policy can remain proprietary, even though everything can talk to everything else using open standards). I know businesses would rather pay a large MS licence fee for a solution which is easy to look after than use 'free' components and pay someone to maintain them all and make sure they can communicate properly.

Re:How to get the State of MA to upgrade

[mrchaotica]

Well, the only problem I see with that theory is that, as far as I know, MS still uses proprietary formats whenever they can get away with it. Although it would be nice to think that they're turning over a new leaf, I think the evidence suggests only that they're grudgingly capitulating to Massachusetts' desires.

Call me when you see a large scale shift to open formats (i.e., when they abandon MS XML entirely, switch to XUL instead of XAML, stop working on that "PDF killer" I've heard stories about, drop Windows Media file formats and codecs for MPEG and H.264, etc.

Support

[TechJones]

MS Office also had support for WordPerfect files. If you want to have the leading Office software you must have support for your competition. OpenOffice has support for Word documents so it comes as no suprise that MS would do the same.

Re:Support

[Short Circuit]

If they supported MS Works, it'd save the computer lab I work in a ton of trouble every semester.

Then again, if PC manufacturers bundled OpenOffice with new PCs, that'd solve the problem, too.

Re:Support

[KiloByte]

OpenOffice has support for Word documents so it comes as no suprise that MS would do the same.
Wrong. MS Office doesn't support Word documents in general, but just those produced with the same version of Word, and -perhaps- with the previous one. In some rare cases, you may succeed with importing simple documents from even earlier versions -- but you will need to spend a long time reformatting everything.

MS Office is compatible only with the same version, and even only if both computers have the same default printer installed.

ODF Is Sweeping Through Governments

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has no choice. Either they will support the format, in a usable form, or be increasingly left out of government, city/state/country level, contracts.

I am surprised at how quickly ODF is becoming a must have feature. It makes perfect sense of course, but I think so many people have gotten so use to the "Microsoft is always the winner" mentality that they are having a hard time imagining that anyone would mandate an open format for documents.

Re:ODF Is Sweeping Through Governments

[ronanbear]

OpenOffice.org are doing well. They have won this battle. M$ have tried to crush ODF by saying that they won't support it and tried to muscle customers into accepting their format. Now someone has stood up to them and they know that MA will just buy StarOffice they have to move onto phase 2. They don't care (much) about the money of the MA contract. What they don't want is StarOffice to gain important market share and extra development cash. Once that happens other governments will follow. M$ will give MA full OpenDocument support. But don't go thinking that the version of Office 12 you get with your Dell or on the shelf at Best Buy will have it. M$ will try and win the MA contract with Opendocument support but that doesn't mean they are gonna give that feature to everyone. Even making it a feature that you must install additionally from the 2nd CD would be enough to put most people off. M$ haven't given up the war. In fact they still think they will win.

Platform what?

[cyclop]

SourceForge has the WindowsInstaller.msi listed as 'platform independent'."

Ehm... Since when WindowsInstaller(s) have been 'platform independent'? Do I miss something?

It's all about the customer

[Dekortage]

No, really, it is. If MS Word can open and save in OpenDocument XML format, then Microsoft can honestly say, "Sure, Mr. Corporate Buyer, go ahead and experiment with that open source stuff. And when you're done, you can rest assured that your data can safely return to Microsoft Word with nary a scratch."

At the very least it is a slight nod to the increasing public awareness of open source software.

Up to their old tricks?

[mrogers]

The problem with an extremely liberal license is that it can be embraced and extended. The best way for Microsoft to kill OpenDocument would be to implement it perfectly, wait a year, then add lots of cryptic, undocumented extensions that are only supported by MS Word. When you receive an OpenDocument email attachment you'll be in the same position you're currently in with .doc attachments - it might work, it might not, and you'll never be sure the document's supposed to look the way it looks on your computer, unless you're running Word.

OASIS (the consortium behind OpenDocument) is doing its best to avoid licensing issues and legal arguments, which unfortunately seems to mean you can write whatever you want and call it OpenDocument, or at least "OpenDocument-based" or some other form of weasel words.

Re:in other words...

[finkployd]

How? It is all well and good to say that but it is an open spec, you either support it or you don't. You cannot break it and still call it ODF.

What you CAN do is try to wrap it in DRM that only Office (I'm sorry, registered and activated Office) can open, but they don't need ODF for that, they can (and do) impliment that now with thier format.

However, doing so would violate Mass. requirements (and the entire point) anyway, and be rejected.

Finkployd

The first E

[Johnny Mnemonic]

The first "E" in "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" is "Embrace". We are here.

Re:PDF for resumes

[rufty_tufty]

Have you tried applying for a job through agencies?
When I was recently looking for a job I as a matter of principle tried everything to avoid sending out in .doc format.

Me: Here have my CV in ODF
Job agency: What the hell format is that? Can I have it in word please
Me: Here have a PDF!
Job Agency: We can't edit that
Me: Good - that's kind of the point of pdf
Job Agency: Nope we need to edit it to remove your personal contact details
Me: Here have a pdf without my personal contact details on it
Job Agency: We need to send it to our client, we need in in rtf or doc
Me: Why?
{long discussion snipped}
Me: So you can alter it to fit your format and change it to be what you want?
{long discussion}
Job Agency: Yes

BTW It wasn't just job agencies, but job websites and most HR departments looked at me like I'd tried to send them it in chinese - which to most people ODF or PDF are. In the end I grudgily settled on rtf where possible or doc if I had to.

Re:Not "Open Office XML format"

[John Hasler]

ODF Myths