.Net Framework and Visual Studio Now Available

DJ-Dodger writes "The Microsoft Blogs are all buzzing with news that the .NET Framework 2.0, Visual Studio.NET 2005 and Sql Server 2005 have released to manufacture. Michael Swanson's blog has a nice run down of what's available now and what's coming. The short version: MSDN Subscribers can download everything now, everybody else can pick up their copy after the November 7th launch." The .Net framework is downloadable from FileForum.

Comments

Cool!

[dslauson]

As much as I hate to give MS props, C# is one of my favorite languages to program in. I'm a GNU programmer at heart, but programming C# is like brain candy. I don't have to think about memory allocation or anything even remotely machine-related.

I know, I know, Java's got that stuff, too. I like 'em both. A guy can swing both way, right?

Re:Cool!

[dslauson]

Mono didn't create the language, they just created another runtime environment for it. They get my props for doing that, too. I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due.

Honestly, the way I feel about it is that if I'm going to write real software, I'm going to write it in C++ and I'm going to write it for Linux. If I'm just dicking around writing some code for Windows, sometimes C# is fun.

I swear, you give a Microsoft product one little backhanded complement on this site, and people are all over you. This isn't a fascist Linux dictatorship, you know. It's a forum for people to express oppinions and share information.

Re:Cool!

[Thai-Pan]

Thank you! I feel exactly the same. I've been a Linux hippie for years, but I'm very rapidly converting to the dark side. Get prepared for a rant not specific to just C#...

I don't care what anyone says, C# is way better than Java. And I have ~5 years experience with Java, 6 months experience with C#. It converted me in no time. C# is very pleasant and the language just seems to get out of your way when you want to do something, largely because of the .Net framework.

I'm tired of the fact that it's "cool" to make fun of Microsoft on Slashdot. But you know what? They have a lot of very solid products. Visual Studio is a fantastic IDE. SQL Server is not always the server of choice, but it is very powerful nonetheless.

I'd say this is going to be a very big year for Microsoft. All of their major product groups have a major release due out, and they're all looking very good from what I've seen so far.

So we may not always like Microsoft's products in every way, and we may downright hate some of their business practices. Does that make Visual Studio and C# any worse of a product? Does that make Microsoft Word a worse word processor? NO.

"OMG WINDOWS 95 HAD BLUE SCREENS LOL C# MUST BE BAD" -- Grow up.

The entire open source community needs to grow up a little bit. There's a tremendous amount of talent in it, but it's so obscured by absurd social stigmas and internet-Green-Peace propaganda that a great deal of it loses credability. Visual Studio is a great IDE. C# is a great language. Office is a great productivity toolkit. People use them. Live with it, move on.

Re:Cool!

[m4g02]

I don't care what anyone says, C# is way better than Java. And I have ~5 years experience with Java, 6 months experience with C#. It converted me in no time. C# is very pleasant and the language just seems to get out of your way when you want to do something, largely because of the .Net framework.

I agree C# is better than Java but I don't like both, I know you don't need to cover your traces when dealing with memory and dynamic allocation, but you are sacrificing quite a bit of processor time and system memory in the process. Garbage collectors and every other tool meant to make programming easy costs heavily in time and hardware. Most probably you are going to say that now days computers are fast enough to pay the toll but that is true only for certain cases. Think about AI, speech recognition (even an OS) and many other processor demanding tasks, you would like to use wisely every tick of the clock... As always the method to solve the problem is in the problem itself, but I personally would like to spend my days developing something more significant than a monthly savings report for McDonalds so I'm glad to take my time, use my brain and continue developing on C++.

So we may not always like Microsoft's products in every way, and we may downright hate some of their business practices. Does that make Visual Studio and C# any worse of a product? Does that make Microsoft Word a worse word processor? NO.

No, it doesn't, but as business practices go you can be damn sure they are going to struggle to suck your money up with incompatibilities, upgrades and what else.

No.

[Anonymous Coward]

How many computer users are also computer programmers?

Did your router come with a manual that discusses the Ethernet protocol?

Did your car come with all the tools necessary to change the oil and rotate the tires?

Did your DVD player's manual talk about the DVD specification?

Did your LCD's documentation discuess signal pins and timings of the driver it uses?

No, because very few people would find it useful. Linux comes with everything because it is a hacker's operating system. Windows doesn't because it is a user's operating system.

Java will still rule

[thammoud]

The fact of the matter is that C# will never be able to erode Java's dominance since it is not cross platform. Don't sell me on the Mono project. It is still a little toy. For the .NET platform to be a true competitor, MS will have to port it to all Java supported platforms. Not very likely. Most projects that we work with are written in Java and Run on various platforms. No amount of .NOT will ever touch that.

Re:Java will still rule

[0kComputer]

Spoken like a true Java fanboi. Everytime somebody wants to tout Java you always hear the "cross platform" argument. I could come back and say that Java is slow as hell, but then I'd just be spouting off the same dogma you are.

Fact of the matter is that Both Java and .Net are great frameworks for running business apps. If you want to use linux, use java, if you want to run wintel, then use .net. They are really pretty simillar to be honest and most businesses don't mix the 2 platforms, so cross platform shouldn't be an issue.

Re:Java will still rule

[j3tt]

with 90% (is this right?) of the world's PCs running Windows, I don't think they give a shit about having it run cross-platform.

Re:Java will still rule

[hao2lian]

I think Microsoft is going more for a sizeable dent in the Windows application market right now than the enterprise market dominance Java has (as seen from the lack of fifty four-letter acronyms); that's why I've never really liked any comparison between .NET and Java market shares. Java and C# are about as close as being alike without being illegal as they can, but the two companies are pushing their languages and frameworks in different directions. The selling point being "Hey! It's not WinAPI! ::hallelujah::" there's a rather good chance of it succeeding.

Even Money Says

[BronxBomber]

Half the /. posts that will piss on this news have not ever used the product, let alone .NET.

Go on, mod me troll... you know its true. I'm all for calling a spade a spade, but it goes both ways.

Re:Won't they please think of backward compatabili

[captain_craptacular]

Give me a break. Are you seriously trying to blame Microsoft because your outdated, extremely poorly coded vb6 apps won't work with a product being released at least 5 years after they became obsolete? Any programmer worth a penny puts things like database connection strings in a single, central, secure place that can be edited without recompiling the app, anything else is inexcuseable.

Furthermore, I don't know what version of SQL server you're running, but you haven't been able to have a blank sa password for at least 2 years. Which tells me that you're either full of it, or running unpatched databases. Would you blame Red Hat if your linux server was hacked via an exploit they patched 3 years ago but you just never bothered to apply the patch?

Benefits on .NET 2.0 Framework (via ASP.net)

[PhatboySlim]

For those of us who have worked with ASP.net via .NET Framework 1.1 all of us have been painfully aware of the drawbacks:

- Manual compilation before every execution
- Slow debugging (IIS needs to be restarted to attach to the aspnet_wp process)
- Poorly defined/loose html elements
- Redundant programming/lack of controls (if you didn't take time to roll your own)
- No cross-page posting

Fortunately all these issues have been addressed:

- Pre-compilation
- No need to define html element values as protected
- Thin webserver program for viewing applications (improves debugging)
- Role management out of the box
- 45 new server controls
- Cross-page posting
- Whidbey performance enhancements

Also, to all the Java/PHP fans (myself included) out there, be sure to give this product/platform some serious respect. It is amazing.

Re:Get it here

[amliebsch]

Not only can you do this, but you the compiled binary files themselves (which are actually MSIL) run on both platforms. It doesn't have to be real simple, either - but for now, avoiding any GUI other than STDOUT is the key to portability. I've done this plenty of times before - write console app in Visual Studio, compile to .exe, run exe file on slackware...groovy!

Seriously

[Overly Critical Guy]

Lately, a ton of militant Microsoft and Windows defenders have really gotten vocal around here. There's always been that contingent, but now you can't even report the big news that more two key executives have left Microsoft without a bunch of "WHY IS THIS FRONTPAGE NEWS OMG THAT'S /. FOR YOU" comments. You also get the "XP hasn't blue-screened for me in years, which means the other 99% of the population who have had problems don't count" comments and the wannabe MSDN subscribing know-it-alls who write vast essays listing all the breathless Microsoft marketing points about Avalon, Indigo, and all the other crappy new APIs that already exist elsewhere.

So while the editors and many of the readers are vehemently anti-Microsoft to a fault, a lot of the moderators and a loud cross-section of readers are vehemently pro-Microsoft/X-Box 360/any other crappy Microsoft technology that the marketing brochures told them was cool.

So, yes, praising Microsoft will get you karma. It makes you look hip, enlightened, and individual. Go against the grain!