When "Lifetime Warranty" Memory... Isn't

InakaBoyJoe asks: "What do you do when memory with a 'lifetime warranty' fails? You send it back to the dealer of course -- if they're still around. But when I called The Chip Merchant, they refused to honor the warranty, citing a change in ownership. But they also claim on their website to have been doing business since 1985, and are still using the same name, domain, and phone number as before. So it seems the new owners are trying to reap all the benefits of a connection with the old company, while incurring none of the liabilities. How convenient! Instead of an apology for the months of headaches caused by the bad RAM, I got the runaround and was told to contact some guy in San Diego. The policy is also mentioned here. This means that anyone who bought 'lifetime warranty' memory from The Chip Merchant before April 19, 2004 is SOL. Given the popularity of this vendor, I think this is a pretty big deal. And what these guys are doing sounds vaguely illegal. What recourse do we have when companies pull a fast one like this?"

Comments

Computer Senility?

[biryokumaru]

Are you telling me my computer is going to go senile and there's nothing I can do about it?

Speaking of senile, I wonder if god will give me a refund on grandma...

Apparently

[Neil Blender]

Lifetime refers to the life of the chip.

let's see if slashdot helps

[yagu]

Hmmm, since you managed to get this as a slashdot article I'm not going to lose any sleep that you won't get you your refund. You will.

This is a perfect example of where I think there is some power and benefit to blogging, as discussed in this slashdot article, and my post, among others. Dollars to donuts, you'll get your refund, and The Chip Merchant will issue some clarification of their policy. Good luck!

(And the poster does seem to have a valid point, I'm looking at different listings for memory for "The Chip Merchant", and under warranty for the memory I looked at, they are all listed as lifetime .)

Hmmm, maybe when memory fails, they're unable to remember their policy.

Re:let's see if slashdot helps

[ebrandsberg]

Maybe they mean the lifetime of the memory. How convienent. :)

Fairly simple, effective solution

[USSJoin]

Disclaimer: IANAL. However, a lot of my family are, and I was talking to them about a related issue, and this was their solution.

File suit. No, not a big-money high-powered attorney type lawsuit; head on down to your local Small Claims court.
Why is this good? Well, small claims courts have a maximum damages amount of ~$5000-$10000, depending on where you live. However, you don't need to be a lawyer, you can argue your case yourself. And the filing fees are reasonable for the rest of us: where I live, the cost is $7.

All you need to do, to file, is say that you have exhausted all other measures in dealing with the company: so, sounds like you've called them. Write one letter, telling them that you intend to sue, and send it by certified mail. Give them 15 days, and on the 16th, file.

You can file locally to you, not them, even if they're in another state. The court notifies them of the trial date. And then, come trial day, you go, argue your case (again, no lawyer necessary), and-- they don't show up, usually. So the judge rules in your favor, and gives you a judgement-- which is *incredibly* fun to have against a company.

So this approach gives you everything you want, including the pleasure of revenge, and you get your money back. Happy Hunting!

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[SpaceLifeForm]

All well and good, but you have to collect.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[willfe]

A valid judgment from a court is among the easiest things in the world to sell to a debt collection agency. Sell it for 80% or so of its face value, walk away with much of your money, and let the agency deal with collecting the judgment. Way easier to deal with than a bounced check.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[November 1, 2005]

I've filed a lawsuit before and I had to file where the defendant was located. Perhaps this varies but can anyone clarify when you can file locally and when you have to file in the defendant's location?

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[MarkGriz]

I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but that sure seems like alot of trouble to go through for maybe $100 worth of memory (the OP didn't say what it cost I don't think). Fine if you are a student with lots of free time, but I hardly think most people would take time from work to pursue it.
However, the letter *threatening* a lawsuit is probably the easiest first step.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[billcopc]

$100 worth of memory is just the beginning. When suing, you can try to argue the lost income of dealing with this problem.. factor in troubleshooting time, any money paid for tech support, the time you spent on the phone arguing with the dipshits.. time is money.

Warranties are nice for the casual user, but they're an intangible asset for a company. When you buy something with a 3 year warranty, you can count on having it work for 3 years and not have to budget for it because it will be repaired/replaced free of charge. If that warranty becomes void, so does the paper value of your product.

Your 100$ device has cost you far more in lost time and potential income, you'd be a fool to not try and stick it to them, if only to send a message to these crooks.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[afabbro]

Nice idea, but it's trivially easy for the company to get it bumped up to a regular, non-small-claims court. In that case, you need a lawyer, and now it isn't worthwhile - you're not going to pay someone $200 an hour over a $100 memory chip. If the company is big enough to have an in-house attorney (so the cost to the company is virtually nothing), that's sure to be their first move.

And of course collecting on a judgement is a whole other issue...

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[damiangerous]

You can file locally to you, not them, even if they're in another state.

That's not necessarily true. In my state you can only sue an out of state defendant if they own property here. The party I was looking into suing was in Georgia, and you must sue where the defendent resides there too.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[yamla]

Yeah, right. I won a small-claims court case for $14,000. Debt collectors weren't the _least_ bit interested in it, not for any percentage.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[ninewands]

The easiest way to handle a matter of this nature is to file suit where the defendant is located. This is because you only have to get your judgment and then, after a certain period has expired (varies according to local law), have the court issue a writ of execution on the judgment. Under the writ, a local constable will tell the judgment debtor to surrender sufficient assets to be sold at auction to satisfy the judgment or to pay up in cash. Never underestimate the ability of someone big, not too smart, and bearing a badge and gun, to collect a debt.

If you decide to go the stubborn way and sue in your own local court you could well find your case going all the way to the US Supreme Court before you have a collectible judgment. Trust me, IAAL, suing in the defendant's locale is the easy way to handle small claims.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[Profane Motherfucker]

I'm with you there. Some degenerate bitch owed me money and I got a judgement. Worth less than the paper it was printed on. The parent poster is a fucking idiot. A judgement means NOTHING. People forget the judicial branch has no enforcement power.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[NeMon'ess]

If she had property or a job in California, supposedly you could have garnished them or placed a lien on them.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[MrResistor]

Well, that opens the door for damages above $5000, also. Repeat after me: "plus legal fees and punitive damages."

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[Gryll]

Was this judgment against a individual or a company? I would assume a collection agency would be more interested in going after a company.

With an individual there would be effort tracking them down and the like. With a company it seems it would be a more straightforward and have a much higher chance of return.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude whats IAAL?? I've never heard that around here ;)

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[hometoast]

(mod this waaay off topic but...) this is exactly what is wrong with our litigious society.
While I agree with trying to send a message to a company that they can't renig on published promise, this mentality is the same that fills the pockets of personal injury lawyers. Ughck.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[Eivind]

A judgement against a person and a company are two different things. A judgement against a person with no net worth can be essentially worthless.

A judgement against a company means they either pay, or go bankrupt. There is no third option.

Okay, so this means a judgement against a company on the verge of bankruptcy anyway can be worthless. True.

But this doesn't sound like the case here.

I filed for bankruptcy against a company that I had an outstanding judgement against once. Was fun. Oh, I received the money -- by courier -- 3 *hours* after I delivered the bankruptcy-claim against the company.

Turns out creditors of a company gets *real* itchy when they learn there's non-payed judgements against a company, and the itch grows to roll-in-honey-and-sleep-in-ants-nest proportion when such are followed by bankruptcy-claims.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[yamla]

It was against a company. But a company whose books were a mess and whose assets were carefully (and illegally) hidden.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I Am A Lawyer the non negative version of IANAL

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[joeslugg]

Pardon my ignorance, but once you have a ruling against them, what recourse do you then have for getting that ruling enforced? Getting the ruling doesn't seem like the "end" of the process. What comes next? I figure some sort of law enforcement has to get involved to see to it that the ruling is enforced. If the losing defendant is in another state, what jurisdiction does your local small claims court have over that state's law enforcement? And if the answer to that is "none", how can the local law enforcement that your local judge does have control over have any jurisdiction in that other state?

Again, please excuse my ignorance - I just am having trouble connecting the dots all the way to "getting my money back."

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[tchuladdiass]

I've heard of cases where in some areas you can take the judgement to the local sheriff, have them go with out to the company, and you can by force remove enough assets from the companies premises up to the value of the judgement.

I know that this is true, because I read it in another Slashdot post :-)

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[billcopc]

Fine then. Screw litigation, let's lynch these crooks!

There is no "perfect" solution to human mischief. Some people are honest and well-meaning, many more are selfish, treacherous and war-like. As long as we will have these two polar factions, we will have litigation.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[mink]

From seeing it in action in Ohio, they have 30 days to pay up. Then the court will step in and take action. I've never seen someone not pay, so I don't know the steps the court takes.

Re:Fairly simple, effective solution

[cloudmaster]

Trust me, IAAL

And to think, just a couple of months ago you were working in the computer lab at a university and Arguing with me about how easy it is to get around Chicago - now you're a lawyer! Congratulations on the promotion.

I should note that I didn't recognize you as the pizza guy until I looked at a couple of back posts, and recognized a response after reading it, BTW. It's purely coincidental that I happened to not believe the IAAL claim.

Hay

[Leffe]

What recourse do we have when companies pull a fast one like this?

Fire, lots of it. Burn their offices down. And see if you can find my stapler while you are there, it is red!

Re:Hay

[mindaktiviti]

Yeeeeaaahhhh, about that stapler, mmmmmkay???

Chip Merchant

[the eric conspiracy]

I used to buy my stuff from the Chip Merchant, but when they sold out the character of the operation changed remarkably. I was probably one of their earliest customers - I found them in MacWeek, and remember hearing a woman and child in the background when placing an order. They guy was probably working out of his house at the time.

It's sad to see a company that used to be trustworthy turn to the dark side like this. Needless to say I am no longer one of their customers.

BUT as far as changing owners, they have no right to just blow you off. You have a contract with them. Contact the BBB in the area they are located, as well as the State Attorney general. A lot of companies try to screw people knowing that they just will not be persistant enough to complain. When they start getting letters from the Attorney General it will get their attention. I have done this in cases where the company tried to stiff me on a rebate. It usually works.

Re:Chip Merchant

[sdpuppy]

I remember the Chip Merchant when it was discussed on newsgroups - well before the WWW.

You're right - when a company takes over the name, they take over the obligations.

Else they ruin the reputation that they paid for.

Too many companies forget that it's more expensive to obtain new customers than to hold on to loyal old customers. And when they start to lose their old customers a new base is even more difficult to obtain.

Re:Chip Merchant

[dougmc]

Contact the BBB in the area they are located

The BBB has no power. It's basically just a club that businesses can join, a club that gives you a sticker that you can put on your door that makes customers feel better about you.

If your business is not a member, then the BBB can't do anything to it.

If your business is a member, the BBB will rate it based on the number of complaints they've received on it and they'll make some token efforts to resolve complaints, but if the company doesn't want to play ball, the BBB can't do anything except rate somebody `unsatisfactory' or something similar if there's enough complaints (and there needs to be quite a few.) But before that happens, a shady business will just drop it's membership, and that's that -- they lose the sticker, and that's about it.

Re:Chip Merchant

[spores_are_us]

They do have a BBB logo on their website. So, it can't hurt to report it.

Re:Chip Merchant

[Arker]

Don't forget, the BBB is paid by the members (i.e. the companies) not the consumers. I've known them to give a business their highest ratings and report no complaints, when I personally knew of several people that had filed complaints with them about that company.

I think each local branch is pretty independent, so they aren't necessarily all that corrupt, but I would expect most are, given the way they're structured.

Re:Chip Merchant

[MrResistor]

When my wife and I bought our first car together the dealership kept jerking us around, after all the papers were signed. After about a week of "we need you to come over and re-sign stuff again" my wife filed a complaint with the BBB and the next day the manager of the place was ready to clean her shoes with his tongue.

So, I suspect you're just being a naysayer. But, either way, it costs nothing to file a complaint, and it may have positive results.

Re:Chip Merchant

[mmaddox]

...the next day the manager of the place was ready to clean her shoes with his tongue.

Hmmm. Did your WIFE tell you this? Are you sure it was just her shoes? Gotta watch those women...

Re:Chip Merchant

[the eric conspiracy]

There is a big old BBB seal right on the web site.

Methinks they are a member. If not I am sure the BBB would be interested to know that their trademarks are being used without permission.

Re:Chip Merchant

[vegetablespork]

Exactly. Display of a BBB logo on a merchant's premises or website should be treated like a warning label. It says "We know we're shady, but want to make you feel better." When you visit any high-complaint business' premises, chances are you'll see the BBB plaque.

Re:Chip Merchant

[dougmc]

my wife filed a complaint with the BBB and the next day the manager of the place was ready to clean her shoes with his tongue.

Ok, which means that the manager was probably not even involved before you got the BBB involved. You probably could have gotten similar results by calling up the manager himself. Also note that the issue wasn't about money -- it was about paperwork. It probably costed the manager nothing to make your wife happy in that case, so he did.

Making good on the `lifetime warranty' memory very well may cost the Chip Merchant money, so the results are quite likely to be very different.

So, I suspect you're just being a naysayer.

Well, I said nay (sort of), so I guess that makes me a naysayer.

But, either way, it costs nothing to file a complaint, and it may have positive results.

Ok, but you should be aware of the odds. If a company is shady, the BBB is not going to make them un-shady, and the Chip Merchant is sounding very shady here. And lots of BBB members are shady.

For example, you may remember this fiasco a few years ago, where Best Buy sold a bunch of GF4 Ti4600 cards for $139, but wouldn't deliver them. The BBB was contacted repeatedly, and did nothing, even though this was exactly the sort of case where one would have thought that they should have done something. The many complaints made weren't even showing up on as complaints against Best Buy on the BBB site, when they certainly should have (even if the complaints were without merit, which they were not.) Remember, it's the business who pays the BBB, and the BBB is a business looking to make a profit like any other, and their #1 duty is to their customer (the company), not to you.

Re:Chip Merchant

[MrResistor]

Ok, which means that the manager was probably not even involved before you got the BBB involved. You probably could have gotten similar results by calling up the manager himself. Also note that the issue wasn't about money -- it was about paperwork. It probably costed the manager nothing to make your wife happy in that case, so he did.

Wrong on all counts. It was about money (they decided we didn't qualify for the loan they gave us 2 days after all the paperwork was signed), the manager was involved from the begining (he helped negotiate the sale), and "making it right" did cost them money, though not as much as it could have (he offered to buy us diner at one of the best sushi places in town, but we wanted nothing more to do with them at that point).

Re:Chip Merchant

[Anonymous Coward]

What most likely happened is the financial institution they use for financing denied the application, after the snake^H^H^H^H^Hsalesperson told you everything was fine.

Re:Chip Merchant

[dougmc]

Wrong on all counts.

Well then, I'm glad the BBB came through for you. But you should be aware that you were lucky -- it doesn't come through for everybody, probably not even for most. The BBB does not work for you -- it works for the businesses that are it's members. Sometimes things work out in your favor in spite of that, but not always.

Re:Chip Merchant

[MrResistor]

It costs nothing, is sometimes beneficial, and doesn't preclude you from taking legal action later on.

Maybe they aren't looking after our interests, but I'll bet they are looking after their own. If they ignore all complaints, then the BBB sticker would quickly become meaningless. Honest businesses (and yes, there are honest businesses out tere) would have no reason to join; why pay the fees if your membership means nothing to potential customers, or, even worse, if membership associates you with shady businesses? Or does BBB membership include some special benefits other than PR?

Bad publicity

[general_re]

What recourse do we have when companies pull a fast one like this?

thechipmerchantsucks.com is currently available. ;)

Re:Bad publicity

[Thing 1]

Others have said small claims court, which is good if you're on a budget.

But, (OP), remember that we live in the USA, where anyone can sue anyone else for any reason at any time. (Sure, you'll get laughed out of court suing your parents over your circumcision, but that hasn't stopped folks.)

If you're a member of Pre-Paid Legal or something similar, you might be able to get a deep discount on attorney's fees.

Recourse

[Anonymous Coward]

Your best recourse is to make it financially in their interest to satisfy your request to refund your money, or replace their product. Posting to Slashdot is a good start. See if any media outlets are interested in the story. I had a similar situation occur with a pre-paid wine-of-the-month club, and they ended up satisfying the contract I'd entered into with the previous retailer.

Corporations Live through Purchase

[Crutcher]

Your waranty was issued by a corporate entity, and as such, is a contract with that entity. It doesn't matter how many times the ownership of the company changes, as long as the company exists, the company has a stable timeline.

Short answer, what they are doing is not legal, nail them for breach of contract.

Re:Corporations Live through Purchase

[Anonymous Coward]

Your waranty was issued by a corporate entity, and as such, is a contract with that entity. It doesn't matter how many times the ownership of the company changes, as long as the company exists, the company has a stable timeline.

Short answer, what they are doing is not legal, nail them for breach of contract.

Not so fast! If a company goes broke and they sell just the name as an asset, the next company is not accountable for the obligations of the former company. Those things are happening all the time. Same guys, same name, but different entity.

Re:Corporations Live through Purchase

[Otter]

Not so fast! If a company goes broke and they sell just the name as an asset, the next company is not accountable for the obligations of the former company. Those things are happening all the time. Same guys, same name, but different entity.

The AC is correct. See Air America's shenanigans (under a new corporate entity that's largely the same as the old ownership) over the grant money to care for Alzheimer's patients that was improperly lent to them.

Re:Corporations Live through Purchase

[mwvdlee]

Simply put; if the other owner got the previous owners' client portfolio, they are obliged to fulfill contracts/warrenties.
So if you had a login for their website from before the takeover which still worked afterwards; they have also bought the client portfolio including all responsibilities.
Correct me if I'm wrong, IANAL.

Re:Corporations Live through Purchase

[James_Aguilar]

You are wrong. It would be nice if it was that way, but it is not. See all the other posts.

Re:Corporations Live through Purchase

[hurfy]

They either need to honor it or you file a complaint for false advertising for the 'been in business since xxxx' claim.

They shouldn't get both.

Small claims is probably worth a shot.
Try asking them to appear on Judge Judy or your favorite equivalant ;)

IANAL, but was involved in bankrupt/name/ownership changes... and we make a similiar been in business claim ;)

quote

[name773]

whatever happened to the quote at the bottom of the page?

Life-time?

[Anonymous Coward]

Still don't get it? There is no life-time warranty. I hope you didn't bought the memory because of the warranty. It is still just a freaking company. If a company's going belly up, they can set it up again with the same name and there are no obligations. Never trust those "life-time warranties"!

Shameless plug

[dpilot]

I hate to make a simple, shameless plug, so I'll just give my reasoning.

I pretty much always buy my memory from (Company X) because they're owned by (Company Y) who actually makes memory chips. I figure they own it, they built it, they tested it, their name goes on it, and there's no dilution by being able to point the finger at someone else. I also like the fact that I can buy from a memory maker, rather than some reseller or DIMM builder.

I recently had a DIMM from (Company X) go bad. I called them up, told them my story, and exchanged the bad one for a new one, no problems or hassles at all.

It had a lifetime warranty, and was about 1.5 years old.

Re:Shameless plug

[BrianRaker]

Just come out and say that you buy your memory from Crucial, already.

Re:Shameless plug

[dpilot]

But that would have been a shameless plug.

Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

You could hire a hitman. That what I had to do to get the processor I ordered from ICreseller.com.

Go to court

[AuMatar]

I actually saw a case like this on a court TV show once. It was about a company honoring a previous owner's coupons, but same difference. The company lost. So if you do go to court, you have a decent chance of winning.

Re:Go to court

[bherman]

Yes, because real courts follow the rulings of the stuff you saw on TV. Just cite the reference law of CoutTV case docket #12213221 and any court in the land will enter it as evidence.
</sarcasm>


I'm not saying that the OP doen't have a good case but I don't think it's wise to give legal advice based on your TV viewing habits. If I did, I'd tell you that a DNA test takes about 2 minutes to run!

Re:Go to court

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually saw a case like this on a court TV show once.

Well, in that case you're probably qualified to the the next Supreme Court nominee...

Re:Go to court

[AuMatar]

I didn't say it was a drama. I said it was a court show. As in- one with a judge running it. Those do tend to try and follow the law.

parent is correct.

[artifex2004]

I had the same thing happen when I tried to get warranty service for an old Visiontek card, so I know how you feel. But names would be worthless as assets if they had to stay attached to the obligations of the former owners. Sometimes companies do agree to take on the prior obligations, at least partially, (the new Visiontek at least offered me a discount on a new card) but it's never to be taken for granted.

On the other hand, if a company sells goods or services with the deliberate intention of avoiding their obligations later, that's actionable. But you'd have to pursue details of that with a lawyer, and it can be hard to prove.

Right on

[JavaRob]

This is right on target. Change of ownership doesn't mean the new owners can keep the lucrative long-term contracts they like but toss the warrantee ones they don't want -- it's still the same company.

New acronym, by the way: TIS, TTAL (this is /., talk to a lawyer)... but common sense is certainly on your side. Also see poster a few posts up who talks about small claims court -- I'll be willing to bet that you'll never even need to sue, because they probably just have a POLICY now where they don't honor warrantees until they get that "I'm suing" notification letter.

Sucks, but some companies pull stuff like this to save some money.

IT AIN'T RIGHT!

[BrianRaker]

Yaknow what, I live in "America's Finest City", a.k.a. San Diego, and live no more than 5 miles from the offices of The Chip Merchant. Try contacting Michael Turko at KUSI News (Non-affiliated television station with a penchant for doing consumer fraud news stories).

Funny thing is, KUSI's studios are less than a 5 minute's walk to The Chip Merchant's San Diego offices (they are pretty much in the same office park).

Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

You may have done what you wanted already, you made them look bad and racked up their bandwidth, that will shown em.

The Chip Merchant

[hotarugari]

The Chip Merchant has sucked monkey's a$$ as long as I've even heard of them.

People that know - newegg.com. Of course, I would generally go by the manufacturers warrantees vs. any corparate reseller.

I guess your warranty was good for the life of the management of the company.

Subtlely..I am reminded of the following:
Tommy: Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's ass by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather to take his word for it?
Mr. Brady, Customer: [confused] What? I'm failing to make the connection here.
Tommy: No, I meant, you can get a good look at a T-bone steak by sticking your head up a butcher's ass... No, wait. It's gotta be your bull.
Richard: [embarrassed] Wow.

Re:The Chip Merchant

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the newegg.com that only posted good user reviews for all their products?

Kingston

[Guspaz]

The solution is to buy memory that comes with a lifetime MANUFACTURER warranty. Kingston (Think Kingston Value Ram and Kingston HyperX) memory comes with a lifetime warranty, and you deal directly with the RAM manufacturer, not the vendor/store.

I had a SODIMM in my laptop test as faulty, so I gave Kingston a call. It wasn't much trouble to get replaced, they didn't care about when I purchased it, and they even cross-shipped me a replacement. Much more reliable than a small computer store that might not be around tommorow.

I suspect you are full of shit.

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

I suspect you are full of shit. Besides that I have never heard of a small-claims court with a limit as high as $14,000, it just defies any reality that no agency at all would be interested. I'm saying you are full of shit.

Re:I suspect you are full of shit.

[dasunt]

Perhaps you should google first.

Georgia, Delaware, and Tennessee have small claims limits of $15k, according to the above website. (2 counties in TN have a limit of $25k!)

Perhaps the above poster is just an idiot and didn't try to collect on his claims. Depending on the state, you can get somewhat aggressive at collecting small claims, and you may even get interest on an unpaid claim!

Disclaimer: IANAL, I just looked this information up when I had to take someone to small claims court a few years back.

Re:I suspect you are full of shit.

[yamla]

The suit was filed in Alberta small claims court (actually, I think, "Provincial Court of Queen's Bench). Alberta has a limit of $20,000 Canadian.

In the end, I hired a lawyer to go after the company, at which point the company signed a statement saying they had no assets (clearly a lie, or the assets had been illegally transferred), no income, and no outgoing cash flow (this latter was provably a lie as well).

My lawyer advised that it wasn't worth pursuing. If you still don't believe me, let me know and I'll try to dig up the case number to prove I'm telling the truth.

Re:I suspect you are full of shit.

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Guess you shouldn't have let some shady company soak you for $14k, eh?

Re:I suspect you are full of shit.

[yamla]

No doubt. Of course, the guy was consistently claiming he DID have assets and capital, and had investors all lined up. More fool me for believing George Gillespie.

Re:I suspect you are full of shit.

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Who is George Gillespie?

Re:I suspect you are full of shit.

[yamla]

The guy whose company it was, who promised me over and over again that he'd pay me.

Re:I suspect you are full of shit.

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

I understand that. Is his name supposed to mean anything? A company people might know about? Something like that? A boiler-room realestate guy? Someone from Nigeria or Florida?

What were the terms of the corporate sale?

[dhartshorn]

If the seller assumed all existing liabilities (a very common condition), then the seller is the one responsible for replacing your bad chip. Likely the guy in San Diego is either the seller or a person/company that was paid to handle that liability. Your warranty is from the old owner. The new owner starts fresh.

Exactly what I was going to say

[aztektum]

I have bought probably hundreds of RAM sticks in my day, certainly not as many as some, but most, if not all, have had a lifetime warranty through either Kingston, Crucial or Corsair. I've never had a problem switching out bad sticks with them.

Suing / Sale Info / BBB / Etc

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a few thoughts swimming around on this:

Sueing:
Yes you can sue but if you have this issue, then there are probably others with the same issue. Just get a list and then contact the company with the list and threaten a class action suit. Simply put, organizing a complaint and adding lawyer fees should get you your warrenty honored.

Business Sales Info:
You might request from the business a copy of the sale contract for the company. Within the contract there will be a clause as to who is responsible for any liabilities of the company that are not specifically named in the contract. This can be done with a subpeana if needed.

BBB:
File a complaint and make sure that it is documented.

Internet Fraud Complaint Center:
Go see if there is a way to file a complaint here too, just to make life more interesting. The site is: http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

No Fraud, Just Bankruptcy.

[Cyphertube]

Given the contact information on the site regarding previous warranties, I suspect that they filed bankruptcy. Case number 03-03874-JM7 looks suspiciously like a bankruptcy code.

In order to meet creditors, they would have liquidated assets, which would have included the name, the business records, customer lists, etc. However, the new company that took over the name would be a brand new corporation. A bankruptcy filing with liquidation would have wiped out any such debts.

Confirmation: Greg Akers, as listed, is a Chapter 7 trustee.

Check USBC Southern District of California's site for more information.

With the case code, you should be able to pull up records of the bankruptcy, as well.

In small claims court?

[Overzeetop]

I'd verify the parent's claim of being able to sue (in small calims court) for expenses not actually incurred. Besides, your troubleshooting time and lost productivity will likely not be part of the warranty. Almost nobody is stupid enough in this day to not explicitly exclude that from their terms.

very clear policy.

[Jafafa Hots]

It's very simple - it's warranted for the lifetime of the memory.

Only though bankruptcy

[Overzeetop]

If the corporation goes under, then the name is an asset which gets sold off. It's a piece of property, not the corporation as a whole. Most obligations are gone.

If, otoh, the company is purchased along with all the corporate obligations, then the new company must honor the warranty. If the obligations are not "purchased" in the transaction, then they must be assigned to a responsible party. That's who you would have to sue.

It's easier to sue the current owners, and make them prove they're not responsible. In their scramble to clear themselves, they'll likely have to finger the entity with the obligation.

You've already won.

[hoggoth]

> What recourse do we have when companies pull a fast one like this?"

You post your story on Slashdot and hundreds or thousands of geeks never shop there again. That will cost them much more than paying for one damaged memory chip.

Sorry

[sribe]

Despite what other people are telling you, you will have absolutely no legal recourse. The original company was shut down and had its assets seized and sold off by the IRS. The new company will not have any of the old company's liabilities. The only thing you have a legal complaint about is the claim on the web site that they've been operating since 1985, because that is clearly false.

Chapter 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

After doing a little research, I found a trustee information page, where the same Gregory A. Akers is listed as a Trustee for Chapter 7 bankrupcies. Now, if the old owners of the company went kaput and filed C7, it's quite possible that they don't have anything left and that the sale to the new owner was for assets (including the name) only. However, something that's definately still worth looking into.

Having done a bit of research into purchasing small-biz companies myself, just about every thing that I've read says to purchase the assets, not the company for reasons just like this (and letting you out of past liabilities that may have been incurred). FYI: IANAL, so TIFWIW.

mod parent up - false advertising

[davidwr]

You can go after them for false advertising.

Well, YOU may not be able to but anyone who bought from them since the bankruptcy can, if they bought based on the "in business since 1985" statement.

Re:mod parent up - false advertising

[sribe]

Actually, I might have been wrong. I specifically remember that the tax authorities shut down The Chip Merchant. But I realized after posting that I don't know for sure that they were sold. They might have been forced into bankruptcy, and therefore might still be the same company, in which case the court might or might not have relieved them of their obligations under old warranties.

Might, might, might. It's still worth asking the question because that claim might be bogus. I'm just not as sure as I was when I first posted.

No, it refers to the lifetime of the company

[davidwr]

In the author's case his chip lasted longer than the company.

Re:No, it refers to the lifetime of the company

[James_Aguilar]

The grandparent poster was being facetious, davidwr.

Recourse

[c0d3h4x0r]

What recourse do we have when companies pull a fast one like this?

About the only thing you can really do is not shop there anymore and spread your story as widely as possible to deter others from shopping there. Unfortunately your own financial loss in this case isn't something you'll likely ever recover, so you should just write it off as a costly learning experience.

Shady businessmen

[yamla]

No, nobody special. I figure this way, when people search on his name on Google, this conversation will come up. George Gillespie, the guy who promised to pay me money he owed me and never bothered to do so. I do not advise you do business with him if you are in Edmonton, Alberta or the surrounding area. It turns out he lost a similar court case some time before which is actually now used as precedence in Alberta courts.

you have a legal agreement with them

[mianos]

It's up to the court to decide but considering they have been bankrupt you may lose if you try. They would argue such before a judge. That's all you can say.

for real lifetime warranty, kingston

[capsteve]

i've never, never, ever had a bad experience with kingston when it came to getting warranty replacement memory. i've heard so many first hand stories of other sysadmin and engineers who have had only good things to say about kingston, that for any server build/upgrade, kingston has been the only brand i've spec'ed. i've heard good things about crucial from my brothers in arms, but i personally have not used them...

back in the day when 64 and 128 mb upgrades were in the four figure costs, you didn't want to hang your dick on some johnny-cheap ram, you bought kingston. and when systems acted flakey and you had to peel all you components out of the box and systematically replace/swap pieces out, you were always able to count on the engineers at kingston to help swap and even test memory modules to help you determine if it was their goods, or someone elses.

not to put too fine a point on the question, but how much memory are you talking about, and what did it cost you?
it may not help take the sting out of a bad situation, but you've had the memory for over a year, maybe you can just take your lumps on this one and never buy from those guys again, regardless of whether their under new management.

if your ass is really sore about getting them to share the burden, why don't you talk to the real nice. get a sales rep on the line, possibly a product manager, and explain without emotion or profanity what your situation is, and explain that:
1) you are losing a customer
2) i will never buy from you again
3) i will tell all my associates my bad experience with your company/product
4) i will always offer my comments on online forums if the discussion is regarding memory and my experience(epinion, amazon, blah blah blah)

if you still don't get any sympathy or response, thank whomever you spoke with for their time, but make sure to get the name, address and phone number of the person you are speaking with, and browser the website for all email addresses and send every address an email complaint. in you written complaint, explain that you've been given the run around and list times/events/names. make a copy of the email, and send a copy both to your local better business bureau as well as the one where the vendor is running it's business.

no one likes bad press; bad word of mouth has a tendancy to spread geometrically (remember girls with a bad reputation? they prolly only gave out hj...) if you take your time to compose you complaint in a way that your grandmother would understand, and phrase things carefully so that you are neither liable or slanderous, you'll probably get some kind of response in your favor.