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GORM 1.0 Release to Take on GNOME/KDE?
qa'lth writes "Today marks the occasion of the release of Gorm 1.0, the Interface Builder for the GNUstep project, and with its release, comes the obsolesence of the GNOME and KDE projects. Finally, today, Free Software users can enjoy the power of a well-designed, powerful object-oriented system derived from OpenStep, legacy to the acclaimed MacOSX, through GNUstep, our loving reimplementation of the OpenStep standard."
Riiight. 'Nuff Said.
with its release, comes the obsolesence of the GNOME and KDE projects.
WTF??? Not even Microsoft would dare make such blatant and patently false claims. I'm all for marketing but this is unadulterated bullshit and I don't even want to look at something that starts with BS like this!
Nothing like a little optimism, eh? Quick question, what are you smoking and who's your dealer? I gotta get some of that stuff...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
How about decent and WORKING drag and drop?
everyone is busy with eye candy and other useless add-ons and ignore basic operability and useability.
Gorm is also a RAD application that allows one to create user interfaces and various application object models in very intuitive way, benefiting from highly dynamic features of the Objective-C language and runtime. Flash videos can be seen here. More information can be found on this blog. Interesting is, that the application could never be done in C++, check out why.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
I GOOOOOOOORRRRMMM!!!!!! GORM SMASH!!!!! KDE EAT!!!! SMASH GNOME!!!! GUUUUUhhhHHH!!!! GrrrRRRRR!!!! I GOOOOOOOORRRRRMMMMM!!!!
alternatively:
Gorm nuts!
Corn nuts!!
Gorm nuts!
Coooorn nuts!!
Gooorm nuts!!!
Cooooooooorn!!!!!!
Gooooooooooorrm!!!!!
Maybe GORM will make GNOME and KDE obsolete, but first their server will have to withstand a righteous Slashdotting!
Phoenix, Boston, Little Rock, see a pattern?
Having set the expectation with references to OSX, why don't they have any drop dead gorgeous screenshots instead of one very dated looking one? I had high hopes that got dashed with WTF?
Fnord! Any sufficiently undocumented code is indistinguishable from magic.
So why can't we moderate articles too?
"Software is like sex; it's better when it's free." -Linus Torvalds
I'll be the first to admit that Interface Builder (in OS X at least) is an incredible, life changing piece of software. If you've never written a GUI using Cocoa with Interface Builder you can't even imagine how easy it can be.
And Gorm is supposed to be Interface Builder for GNUStep.
That said, it's not GNOME or KDE. You've still got to write that whole boring desktop thing. Gorm might make it a lot easier to write all the stuff that's still missing but saying it made GNOME and KDE obsolete is just plain bullshit.
Before hyping up your toolkit and predicting the death of all other OSS desktops, it's generally best to make sure your toolkit doesn't look like crap in all the screenshots.
They GNUStep guy announcing this was just trying to have some fun, why the hell to people get some riled up by the obsoleting GNOME and KDE statement, have people completely lost their sense of humour? Congratulations to the GNUStep team on their Gorm 1.0 release! nuff said
I think three things will really help GNUstep. the first it the ability to read nib files. If GORM can load a OSX nib file, it will allows people to port the thousands of OSX apps they have made to GNUstep. Second, if they chnaged their target to Cocoa (link it to a version of OSX and release new versions with each release to add features).
The third and final thing is the appearance. GNUstep will never be popular looking thw way it does now. The default look looks too much like 1994 and unfortunately, many people will judge it based on that.
OSX + linux cross platform development would be a HUGE boost to linux.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
From what I see, it looks every bit as eye-pleasing as OS/2!
/sarcasm
VOTE!
Hhhmmmmm.
Me thinks that this poster is a bit sarcastic.
But whatever. GNUstep is a mature and well thought out system for power users. Not my cup of tea, but in absence of Gnome 2.4 and newer software I would probably be using it.
It's also great for systems with lower resources. X terminals, Pentium 2 machines, and the like. Very nice and is picking up the slack that KDE and Gnome leave as they race to beat Microsoft Vista (hopefully before Vista reaches critical mass 2-3 years after it finally gets released (MS still saying it's end of next year?))
If your like me and KDE makes you twitch nerviously, or unlike my you don't have a gig of RAM to deal with Gnome's concept of "simplicity thru complexity" then definately give GNUstep-based systems a look. (GNUstep is actually the API stuff, other projects do the desktop bits)
The nice thing about GNUstep that may attract people is that it's a implimentation for OpenSTEP.
Software previously developed for the Openstep API is what Apple used to create the 'modern' Cocoa half of OS X. (were as the 'older' half is Carbon which follows along the lines of OS 9 and OS 8).
Effectively this makes Cocoa a extended version of Openstep. GNUstep and Cocoa then share a high degree of API compatability. That means that if you write for Cocoa you can much more easily port your applications to run in Linux on Gnustep API and visa versa.
GORMless
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
It's a bit tedious to explain with words what Gorm is all about -- it's much simpler to actually *see* it :-)
If you have only one video to see, check the one about the custom palette -- but the other are interesting too :-) (the StepTalk one demonstrate a creation of a simple calculator *entirely* in Gorm, using the StepTalk palette, which let you code in various languages).
Why waste time trying to make my desktop work and act like Windows(tm)(r)(C)(and possible 666) when all I really want is to get my work done without all the bling?
--
A random sig
Dynamic
Saying nothing
Hopefully never! As long as it lasts, there is competition, meaning rapid pace of development, choice, etc..
with its release, comes the obsolesence of the GNOME and KDE projects.
I was about to call that a gormless prediction, but then I realised that that was the whole point... -.-
Don't take the above poster too seriously. He doesn't.
First: ugly appearance is not equal to non-funcionality. Flashy and colorful does not mean functional. If you want it to be pretty, use Camaelon as depicted here. The Camaelon bundle is in the progress of being included into the main GNUstep distribution. Themability was low priority to the project, compared to functionality.
Besides that, if you would like to know, then I have seen many expert applications that are "ugly" because of some obsolete GUI toolkits. And guess what? The experts use it and do not care about the appearance at all, but about the functionality.
And how it competes with KDE? By different application development approach, by different point of view on objects (C++ objects vs. Objective-C/Smalltalk-like), by another objective runtime, by different paradigms... If it had everything that KDE has, it would be KDE, not GNUstep. It is different so developers can have an alternative. Can you imagine a world where everyone would be the same?
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Since when free software software begins its releases with 1.0??!
gtkaml.org
Gorm
GNUstep
I think, therefore I am. I think?
The VIM development team just announced that emacs is obsolete.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
The OpenStep Standard. And the object oriented C. And how Interface Builder looked on OPENSTEP. And the live CD with the older version (soon to be updated).
Windoze not found: (C)heer, (P)arty or (D)ance
I, for one, welcome our new flamebaiting overlords.
An all too common mistake, Mr. Wiggum. The word you're thinking of is 'gort', the tasty, yet completely moistureless mix of nuts, rasins, and small freeze-dried squirrels. The term 'gorm' is actually the species name of a Star Trek lizard (Capt. Kirk owns a pair of gorm skin boots).
But don't worry, the 'gor' words are often confusing. For example, many people forget that 'gorp' is the name of an alien robotic policeman who destroyed life as we know it in the classic SciFi movie It's a Wonderful Day to Stand Still on the Earth. And the word 'gork' (meaning "I knew that") was coined by writer Robert "Bob" Heinlein for his novel Strange Sex in a Strange Novel. There are hundreds of other 'gor' words (well, 26 max), but I don't have time to cover them all!
Hope this little chat has cleared up your lexographic apostrophe. I know it's helped mine.
Anonymous Kev
Proudly posting as AC since 1997
(Finally got a dang account in 2004)
It used to be a simple thing. If something is presented in a fairly straightforward, just the facts manner it was probably serious. If it makes ridiculous claims about how it will make all of its competitors obsolete, cure seventeen fatal diseases and then get you a beer while walking your dog then you could be pretty certain that it was meant to be a joke.
I used to even be able to laugh at the joke press releases, knowing that they were nothing more than way-over-the-top satire of the dumbest PR pieces in the world. Now... I have to look carefully to make sure that I'm not actually reading the object of that satire instead.
Thank you, PR flacks of the Internet, for lowering the bar so far that we need a shovel just to see the dent that it left.
Few North Americans will get the joke. And the name of this project is further proof that they're mostly gormless about internationalization.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
..by far, the best "pseudo-programming" environment I've ever worked in was LiteStep for Windows. I just made the switch to Linux last year, and I have yet to find a tool as valuable as LiteStep, and frankly, I was surprised that there weren't more modular, easily modifiable interface creation systems like this one. Both Gnome and KDE felt like a step back when I started with the penguin. A s much as I enjoy learning about programming, as a lawyer, I really don't have time to learn about stacks and arrays and pointers and object classes. But an environment like LiteStep, where I can create and specify scriptable actions for things like buttons in "dang-near-english--" e.g. ButtonXLength 10 ButtonXWidth 20 ButtonXText "Press to start firefox" ButtonXAction !Execute "C:/firefox.exe" This is perfect. And also the kind of thing that I imagine hardcore programmers hate, but it's precisely this level of control that us Linux folks (yes, I'm counting myself among you's guys) can use as a real big selling point OVER M$. I will be trying out this Gorm ASAP.
Theme engines dont make a desktop look better. They just look like variations of the same thing. Look at the Gtk theme engines. They dont make that much difference. It all looks pretty much the same at the end of the day. (That being said, Gnome looks pretty famn decent. The theme engines only make the slightest difference)
-- Hot User Submitted deals, Discounts and Coupons
All,
For all of those of you who can't take a joke, tongue was firmly planted in cheek regarding the "KDE/GNOME obsolesence" bit of the post. While I didn't write the post, I know who did and that part, at least, was meant as a joke. Also look on it as something of a commentary on slashdot itself: sometimes it's impossible to get anything on here unless it's sensationalistic or overly stated.
I, personally, tried posting 6 times before giving up. Imagine my suprise at seeing this when I woke up this morning!
Later, GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Compare Glade to Gorm feature-wise. Aside from the appearance of GNUStep, which admittedly stands to be improved, you will find that some of the features Gorm has, Glade blatantly lacks. One thing in particular is the ability to use custom palettes. Glade comes with a standard set of widgets, period... also Glade does not allow the modelling of non-gui objects, Gorm does.
So from that standpoint alone Gorm is compares favorably. I think you better step back from that "BMW" for a while and ask yourself what you're really getting.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Good luck to them with the Cocoa compatibility.
The problem is that Cocoa is a moving target. Mac OS X 10.3 had a major update when they added in Data Bindings along with associated technologies of Key-Value Observing, Key-Value Coding and Key-Value Validation. 10.4 has had the addition of Core Data - there's quite a few new classes in that lot.
With a bit of luck though Gorm will get people more enthusiastic about GNUstep and bring more developers along to work on the core APIs, helping to fill in the gaps in Cocoa compatibility.
The look and feel of the desktop are extremely important. They aren't the only factor a user should take into account, but to discount them completely is a mistake.
If the default desktop is an eyesore, keeps its menus and options in strange places, and has a lot of confusing buttons that don't explain what they do or what they're for, it doesn't matter how powerful the environment is.
Let me say it again: It doesn't matter how powerful the environment is.
Because most users will balk at the environment I've just described. Heck, *I'd* balk at it. I want a usable and intuitive interface as much as the next user. I would no more use this desktop than I would drive a car with strange and cryptic controls, no matter how powerful and efficient the engine is.
Ugh. The "mortar" on that icon makes it look as if Peter North mistook it for one of his co-stars.
These problems could be addressed in Linux/X11. The way to do it is to redefine middle-mouse-click as "drop the most recent selection". This just happens to match what xterm/etc do and that many people mistakenly call the cut & paste X function. Because of this X programs are much more likely to be able to get this enhancement because they tend not to have use the middle mouse for anything else.
Because you can rearrange, open/close, and otherwise manipulate windows between the selection and the "drop", this addresses all your concerns about DnD.
What I suggest is that every toolkit or system that implements drag & drop be written so that middle-mouse-click acts exactly as though you dragged from the most recently selected thing and dropped it. For text this is not very hard because it would use the "PRIMARY" selection. For other data this may require programs that select items that can be dragged to also update the primary selection.
I use drag and drop a lot when using Mac OS X simply because it works so well. Dragging files to the trash, dragging files to applications to open them, dragging images off web pages to save them etc..
Just because Windows (and therefore Linux, as sadly the linux desktops have heavily copied windows as opposed to OS X) can't do drag and drop effectively
Odd, every one of the examples you mentioned works in MY Windows. Have you screwed yours up somehow or are you using some bizarre version? Perhaps you meant to bring up some of the actual problems with windows drag and drop (there are one or two, but it's hardly "broken")?
First, the way the interface looks is irrelevant. A GNUstep theme engine is available here. There's a nice theme in progress called Nesedah (mockup and screenshot of IRC client along with OS X comparison shot)
Second, why is this such a big deal? Don't QT, Visual Basic, and Delphi provide the same RAD approach? No. I've used all of those tools and they just don't stack up. QT is about as good as you're going to get out of a static compile-time-oriented C++ approach. But it's not as simple or direct as a runtime-oriented OO solution like Smalltalk or Objective-C. This is the power of Cocoa/OpenStep/GNUstep.
Delphi, .NET, and QT GUI designers focus on generating code. This is cumbersome and brittle. But Apple/NeXT's Interface Builder and GNUstep's Gorm take a different approach. They actually instantiate objects, set state, create inter-object connnections, and then persist the in-memory objects to disk. When your application is loaded, these objects are unarchived and your application connects to them. This prevents the OO-mocking approach of subclassing a Window class just to create your own instance--something that always makes me laugh but is ubiquitous in the Windows world and has been blindly copied by KDE and GNOME.
Finally, the poster is not a native speaker of English and clearly was not able to convey the sense of humor intended.
Ass.
Fuck Mac OS X. I have a Mac and still prefer Gnome or KDE (I have used both extensively and like both). OS X is a sorry excuse for a UNIX.
Good - don't use it then. Sell your Mac on ebay and buy a new Linux box. However, while you are trolling - go take a long look at modern Linux desktops, then go look at OS X. You'll probably be supprised to notice that alot of the "good" functionality in KDE and GNOME was swiped directly from OS X.
It doesn't even have a working native terminal program (one which allows PGUP/PGDN), and Fink's repository is very poorly maintained. Running X apps doesn't work all that great (why don't they show up in the Dock?). Maybe with a huge amount of effort (and buying a few shareware apps), I could get OS X to work how I want it.
That argument is the EXACT argument used by Windows users against Linux in the early days. Why would you do it? To perhaps show your support to a commerical company that IS actually innovating. Oh, and they don't show up in the dock because they were written using a different API and are connecting to a different window SERVER!
But why would I bother when I can have Linux working out-of-box the way I want it? Why would a want a non-free OS when a free one works just as good if not better?
Again - show some support for a company that is innovating.
There are a few apps that are really great on OS X, but that is all I use it for. Linux is my primary OS. Just because all the pussy, wannabe users fled to OS X, doesn't mean that OS X is better. It's better than Windows, but that's about all that can be said for OS X.
I'll call it like I see it here. You must be an l33t h@x0r right??? Go back to high school and do your homework. OS X has a unique and interesting background in NextStep - which is what both AfterStep and Windowmaker (two of my favorite window managers) are open source clones of. I find it ammusing that someone with your mentality is extolling the virtues of Linux and in the same breath praising KDE and Gnome rather than a more lightweight window manager. Your views are an uninformed mishmash of "popular" thoughts without ONE of your own.
This is special. I WISH I had modpoints today. Can someone tell me why my post (see above) is modded as flamebait while this parent is modded as insightful? PLEASE - read the two posts and tell me why. I'd love to know.
You mean like this[1]? Not only is it visually attractive, it's been carefully designed for usability as well - for example only controls that can be manipulated with the mouse have a gradient. The default theme for GNUstep is still the original NeXT look which, while dated in appearance, is very usable (although possibly because the developers put more effort into the feel than the look). Many of the GNUstep developers are NeXT refugees, and so the default theme is unlikely to change, although Étoilé - a GNUstep-based desktop environment - uses the Nesedah theme.
[1] The window borders in this screenshot are provided by WindowMaker, not GNUstep, and are not themed. A native GNUstep WM exists, but was not used here.
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