Maui X-Stream Tries Again With 'Zentu'

oil-can writes "The guys behind CherryOS announced Zentu Encoder today, saying Zentu is the the third generation of their VX30 codec. DrunkenBlog warns about the product with references to their history." Zentu is an encoding platform that boasts the ability to export video in a quick efficient way to either a Flash or Java based system with an interface for both inexperienced and power users.

Comments

let the hunt begin!

[Janek Kozicki]

firs /. reader that finds an OSS project that is doing the same, gets the prize! (remember to check freshmeat, sourceforge, berlios, alioth and tigris).

Re:let the hunt begin!

[Anonymous Coward]

for i in $(seq 500); do ( curl http://www.vx30.com/flash/vault.swf > /dev/null 2>&1 /dev/null ) & echo $i ; done

Everyone please evaluate it!

Re:let the hunt begin!

[chill]

XVidcap doesn't encode to Flash or Java, but to MPEG-1. The VX30 stuff looks like MPEG-4, and is a lot better quality. Flash is also easier to embed in an e-mail or web page.

Strike one.

  -Charles

Article text

[Anonymous Coward]

Evil is as Zentu probably does
November 02, 2005

Apparently Maui X-Stream is hyping their new product, The Zentu Platform, which is billed as the third generation of their VX30 Codec and a video encoding tool for streaming media. Riiiiight.

They've got a press release and everything.

*bangs head against desk* You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried, and I have a feeling when someone takes the time to deconstruct Ventu they'll find interesting things. For newer readers who don't understand why I'm mixing brandy with the coffee before noon after seeing this, the company behind Ventu has an.. interesting... history when it comes to their video encoders and other products.

The following links should be enough to get you up to speed, especially if you go in reverse chronology.

        * MXS and CherryOS archives, where you'll want to start with The Pits in CherryOS.

And then the ones on VX30, which are more directly applicable to Zentu:

        * MXS and VX30 archives, where you'll want to start with Deconstructing Maui X-Stream.

The stuff Jim Kartes and Arben Kryeziu pull makes my soul hurt, and it's made worse by the fact that I'm not supposed to talk much about them while some legal things still unravel.Thank god for Yano, who is the only IP lawyer I'm aware of running around in a Cow shirt on weekends.
yummy alcohol posted button posted by drunkenbatman at: 12:02 PM

Thanks for the warning

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't make a move until I get an official stance from drunkenblog.

Re:Damn.

[Ken Broadfoot]

I am in Lahaina now...

What needs doing?

--ken

What are the choices?

[phpm0nkey]

If we're arguing that MXS didn't write the VX30 codec, but rather lifted it from an open-source project, the first step is figuring out the orgin. How many mature, open-source codecs are out there? XviD is the only one that comes to mind...

Sorenson this time, not MPEG4

[inio]

If it supports flash, the new "product" is Sorenson-based (v3 I think, maybe v4) instead MPEG4 like last time.

Re:Not This Again

[HatofPig]

...sounds like MXS rehashed...

Meant to say VX30, and it's the SAME THING. Jeeze... there are half a dozen different GPL projects being ripped off here; I wonder how many companies have bought this software? Has anyone told Geico about this?

Seems to be clear infringement...

[Chromatic Aberration]

Looking deeper into the linked article, there is some really very good evidence elsewhere on the site. http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/00 0534.html is a total dissection of the first few generations of this "Vx30" codec and suite -- which appears to be a direct lift of Xvid, mpg123, lame, and mplayer classic code, as well as code from the JPEG group and others.

a look at the evidence

[Anonymous Coward]

Read this for a detailed account of the evidence of *ahem* borrowing from open source code projects by the VX30 project:

http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/00 0534.html

All I can say is I have a very strong opinion about the company and the people running it, take a look and decide for yourselves, their actions speak louder than words.

Maui's coding checklist:

[davidwr]

1) Did we pick a good product to steal? Check.
2) Did we remember to obscufy the code so nobody can tell we stole it? Better double-check that.
3) Did we change our name so nobody would suspect us? DOH! BUSTED.

Oh well there goes
4) PROFIT!

Re:Damn.

[EvilMonkeySlayer]

What needs doing?

You must find the Jade Monkey before the next full moon...

Hmm...

[tktk]

Seems like looking for GPL code the new scavenger hunt.

VX sounds scary

[Work Account]

I can't imagine using anything called VX to encode cute videos of my blonde hair blue eyed daughter's 2nd birthday party!

(Joke Hint: 1st search result for VX)

They admit to it!

[inio]

Check this page:

http://www.vx30.com/pages.php?cid=MDEwMTgxMTgyMTk4

Zentu Flash Video Compression

The Flash Video files created by the Zentu encoder use the open source library FFMPEG which is a derivative of MPEG 4 . Use of the FFMPEG is governed by the LGPL who license can be viewed in full here. Our MPEG 4 Patent License is filed with MPEGLA.

Why FFMPEG?

We've found that FFMPEG is one of the most high quality MPEG 4 codecs in the world. The quality of the Flash Video that Zentu creates with FFMPEG is absolutely stellar!! Please visit our Flash Video Showcase to check out the amazing quality of our samples.

How do we use FFMPEG?

As described by the LGPL Zentu is a "work that uses the Library". Which means that Zentu for Flash has accessors that use the FFMPEG "library" but is not itself a derivative of that library. Furthermore the FFMPEG library was not modified in any way to work with Zentu nor is it compiled as part of the Zentu executable.

Re:They admit to it!

[fishybell]

I think you hit the nail on the head

Now that they openly say how they use an opensource product in an, as far as I can tell, legitimate way, what's there to beef about? Do we still need to screem and holler and hoot?

This vaguely reminds me of when linksys was using GPL'ed software on their routers and not releasing the source. Everything just blew over once they started using the GPL correctly.

From what I can tell, Zentu isn't so much about a propriety codec as it is about a transcoding solution for easier deployment. They happen to use FFMPEG for the gruntwork, but if the rest is legitimately their code, no harm no foul.

Re:They admit to it!

[Krach42]

In the LGPL, they have to allow you to update the library to a newer version. This means either you dynamically link into the library, or you provide the object code necessary to rebuild your application if it's statically compiled.

There was already an LGPL library in use in VX30, and they have still yet to comply with the conditions and terms of even the LGPL on that product.

Re:They admit to it!

[LiquidCoooled]

I just found this as well.

Their software appears to be nothing more than a shell script, which doesn't really require a whole lot of code to operate.

The guts and encoding are performed by the FFMpeg library and they get the glory.

On the FFMPEG licensing page the following notes are made:

Q: Bottom line: Should I be worried about legal issues if I use FFmpeg?
A: Are you a private user working with FFmpeg for your own personal purposes? If so, there is remarkably little reason to be concered. Are you using FFmpeg in a commercial software product? Read on to the next question...

Q: Since FFmpeg is licensed under the LGPL, is it perfectly all right to incorporate the whole FFmpeg core into my own commercial product?
A: You might have a problem here. Sure the LGPL allows you to incorporate the code. However, there have been cases where companies have used FFmpeg in their projects, usually for such capabilities as superior MPEG-4 decoding. These companies found out that once you start trying to make money from certain technologies, the alleged owners of the technologies will come after their dues. Most notably, MPEG-LA (licensing authority) is vigilant and diligent about collecting for MPEG-related technologies.

Now, on the vx30 page, they also mention that: Our MPEG 4 Patent License is filed with MPEGLA.

I would say in this case they aren't doing anything wrong (providing they are actually licensed).

Re:Not This Again

[Krach42]

The intention is to use legal basis to let their customers know that they're using software under the wrong license.

Probably a better idea would be to explain to them how they can do exactly what they got from MXS, but legally and respecting the GPL. Then let them know that they can avoid any legal repercussions by using the software legally, rather than paying a company to steal.

I think most companies if hit with the information that what they were sold is actually free, and the only thing that the people who originally wrote it is just to respect their license, use it legally, and *gasp* free (as in beer) that most companies would opt for that, especially if it had them avoid any legal details.

Basically something like, "Just to let you know, we're suing the Maui X-Stream due to their illegal inclusion of our GPL software without our permission. If we are successful, then this suit may place you in a legally vulnerable position, because you're using software that was not properly licensed, and MXS has been offering no amnesty for their users. If you want to avoid this potentially damaging situation, we can provide you free information about how to provide the exact same service you were getting from MXS, but in compliance with copyrights, and without further cost to you."

DAMN IT!!!!!!!

[zentu]

/rant

I have been using this nick name for over 10 years, and NOW some retarted company is using it... I made this entire nickname up while on the john. I was planning on buying zentu.com, but WHENEVER I had the money to buy the domain some marketing group had it, and being a poor college student doesn't allow me to pay $300+ to register it.

I am pissed off now. First this stupid company trys to repackage OSS products to profit, and now they steal my damn nickname.

/end rant

mpegla m4v licensees

[ubercow]

look at #133 http://www.mpegla.com/m4v/m4v-licensees.cfm