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NetBSD 2.1 Released

jschauma writes "NetBSD for everyone! Lots of news regarding new NetBSD releases: On October 31st, 2005, NetBSD 2.0.3, a source-only security update of the NetBSD 2.0 release, was announced. Since many people are still somewhat confused by the new versioning scheme used in NetBSD, this release was preceeded by an explanation of the NetBSD branches. Only two days after the 2.0.3 announcement, on November 2nd, 2005, NetBSD 2.1 was released. NetBSD 2.1 is the first maintenance release of the netbsd-2 release branch, and was announced with binary distributions for 54 architectures. Primary means of distribution include bittorrent." jschauma continues, "Not entirely by coincidence, a number of security advisories was released almost simultaneously, which for the most part have been fixed in these two latest releases. However, since the release engineering process could not be delayed even further, there are three advisories that affect even NetBSD 2.1 -- a security update on this branch (ie NetBSD 2.1.1) is expected to be released very soon as well. Finally, the NetBSD release engineering team also released an update of revised estimate for the release date of NetBSD 3.0, the next major release which will bring a number of new features. Please consider making a tax-deductible (in the US) donation to support NetBSD."

109 comments

  1. NetBSD 3.0 by chrysalis · · Score: 3, Informative

    NetBSD 3.0 is also coming in a few weeks (end of November).

    --
    {{.sig}}
    1. Re:NetBSD 3.0 by ploss · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, give me a more obscure time reference, since that is after the milk in my fridge expires...

      Is that before the bananas on the counter spoil? Or maybe when my bread starts growing mold?

      Get with the program, concrete date references are out of style now!

      --
      What are the odds that some idiot will name his mutex ether-rot-mutex!
    2. Re:NetBSD 3.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, so they say. Wasn't it suppose to come out in Septemeber? Then October? The NetBSD folks are perfectionists, which is why the software is so great. This, however, results in few releases.

      No software for you!

    3. Re:NetBSD 3.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we talking FreeBSD? *Raises right eyebrow*

    4. Re:NetBSD 3.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FreeBSD 6.0 was released on Nov. 1st, but there hasn't been much word of it. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/IS O-IMAGES/6.0 Three big BSD releases in two days' time...I'm a happy man.

    5. Re:NetBSD 3.0 by nacturation · · Score: 1, Funny

      I just submitted a bug to Google regarding their calculator. Apparently dividing libraries of congress by hogsheads per fortnight isn't supported.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  2. Is there by renrutal · · Score: 0

    A really obscure architecture they don't support?

    Consoles, Handhelds, Toasters?

    1. Re:Is there by pmike_bauer · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      I read /. for the (Score:-1, Conservative) comments.
    2. Re:Is there by students · · Score: 1

      z80? I want netbsd on my Ti-83+! (z80 is also gameboy)

  3. You know this is a lame article when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    nobody can think of anything to qualify as +5 Funny..

    1. Re:You know this is a lame article when... by Karma_fucker_sucker · · Score: 2, Funny
      I guess. It's really a press release - not much to comment on.

      I find a hard time keeping track of all the *BSDs. There's

      OpenBSD

      NetBSD

      FreeBSD

      I also see DeadBSD a lot here on /. Can't find the website to download.

      --
      Evil people don't think they're evil. - George Lucas, Making of Ep III
    2. Re:You know this is a lame article when... by msbsod · · Score: 0

      1/3 of Linux is just another BSD distribution. And there are so many Linux distributions by now, you can't even remember their names anymore.

    3. Re:You know this is a lame article when... by rheotaxis · · Score: 1

      BSD zealots are moderating this thread, and nothing is funny about it. They are more serious about being open than anyone else. Nothing is or ever will be more open than BSD; it seriously is the only completely open UNIX anywhere. (Because Linux and GNU are NOT really UNIX; seriously, they are just less open clones of UNIX specs). So let's all take this very seriously, and not joke about it, OK? I'm feeling some "serious" flames already.

      --
      Software freedom...I love it!
    4. Re:You know this is a lame article when... by Minwee · · Score: 1

      This is Slashdot. You should also see: OpenBSD NetBSD FreeBSD OpneBSD NetBDS OpeBSD FreeBSD FreeBSD Oh, and don't forget OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreeBSD.

  4. I got one. by Sheetrock · · Score: 1

    Is it more time-effective to work on security patches for NetBSD or to upgrade the three or four affected machines to Gentoo?

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:I got one. by rthille · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe, if Gentoo ran on my Toaster!
      Actually, it's a MIPS based RaQ2+ and a Qube2, but you get the idea..

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    2. Re:I got one. by Agarax · · Score: 1

      Gentoo is to NetBSD what that annoying 60hp import with the 6 foot wide bolt on spoiler is to the slick compact hybrid that you can park anywhere.

      It's true, karma be damned.

      --
      Remember folks, slashdot doesn't have a -1 "disagree" moderation!
    3. Re:I got one. by halfnerd · · Score: 1

      I also ran NetBSD on a Qube2, until a thunderstorm fried it. But Gentoo does run on it too. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-343667.html

  5. You can almost hear... by erik+umenhofer · · Score: 1

    the crickets on this thread....who loves BSD! I still do!

    1. Re:You can almost hear... by SquadBoy · · Score: 1

      Heh. Yes but which flavour?

      --

      Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
    2. Re:You can almost hear... by erik+umenhofer · · Score: 1

      OpenBSD, I don't own a toaster or nightstand that I could load net on. But if I did, you'd be sure netbsd would be there!

      I used to run NetBSD on my dreamcast. Why? I don't know....

    3. Re:You can almost hear... by msbsod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Linux.org lists 415 Linux distributions. Four hundred fifteen! Just take the most common ones, like Suse and Red Hat, and exchange executables or configuration files between them. At least you can do that with the listed BSD distributions.

    4. Re:You can almost hear... by kv9 · · Score: 3, Informative

      who loves BSD! I still do!

      me too! but seriously, i run 2.0.2/current at home on a couple of boxes (along with slackware and *gasp* w2k) and its great. small, stable, elegant, has a wide selection of packages (with stellar management, i might add) and a whole array of nice toys to play with. its strongest point, imho, is the separation of the base system from the extra software, which also goes for the other younger bsds out there.

      in other news pkgsrc on SFU updated, the new pf from obsd/3.8 is getting ported, there is also a kernel emulator for fbsd/5+ and a smbus implementation. matlab works too and some people might be interested in a list of translations for the `of course it runs netbsd' motto.

      what else can be said, its great that *the* bsd is still alive

    5. Re:You can almost hear... by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1

      Several people have reported instability in 2.0.x on mac68k, growing worse with uptime. But not everyone - some say it's stable as a rock. I was really looking forward to 2.0, with the native threading, but this has made me hold on to 1.6.2 for my more recent installs. I'm hoping 2.1 has fixed whatever the problem was.

      Two things I love about NetBSD: pkgsrc, and the ease of upgrades. Pkgsrc is the best package manager I've ever worked with. And the "unpack the tarballs and reboot" upgrades don't get any easier.

      Kudos to the NetBSD team!

    6. Re:You can almost hear... by Trepalium · · Score: 1

      Any free OS that can be a Xen guest is okay in my books. Linux, NetBSD, FreeBSD, Plan9... All good stuff.

      --
      I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
    7. Re:You can almost hear... by Shanep · · Score: 1

      the crickets on this thread....who loves BSD! I still do!

      You can hear the crickets, because many of the reasonable people who see the wonderful value in the BSD's, have left /. and are conversing in a positive "common goal" manner in mailing lists, etc.

      The in fighting and dick measuring contests which often go on in here are unproductive and unpleasant. /. is a urine soaked sand pit.

      I love the three main free BSD's. /. is still sometimes good for a heads-up though and I still sometimes get caught up in the worst of the bullshit.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    8. Re:You can almost hear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do know a couple of BSD users. A few of my math professors swear by FreeBSD as it best resembles the old SGI machines that the university hauled away about 5 years ago that they did their real work on. I know this because of an error in Mathematica that plagued the class (running on Windows 2000/XP desktops in the classroom) that I did not get on my laptop (Linux). The professor did not know where the error came from because it worked fine on her box. It worked fine on my laptop but not on the lab machines, so I asked if she used a Mac or something to make the file with. She said it was a Unix box, FreeBSD to be precise. I nodded, saying that my laptop didn't get errors either. Everybody else gave me a blank look. Moral of the story: if you find a professor that's a fellow computer geek, they're probably have to hide it as much as you do and are as glad to find somebody else that they can talk with. You might learn something more interesting than math.

  6. Netgear support? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    I hope my usb keyboard and my netgear nic are supported.

    I may have to wait for netbsd 3.0. Its fustrating and my nic worked with linux 2.0.

    1. Re:Netgear support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are obviously very leet since you compare features by looking at version numbers ...

  7. Poor Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just think, they get laid about as offten as they reboot. Never.

    1. Re:Poor Bastards by Ezdaloth · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unfortunately it won't work the other way round: rebooting every night doesn't get you (different) girl every time ;)

    2. Re:Poor Bastards by PoorImpulseControl · · Score: 1

      LOL! This sounds like something I should have heard before. I needed that laugh. +1 funny is not enough

    3. Re:Poor Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're missing the obvious point; a kernel upgrade *does* need a reboot...

    4. Re:Poor Bastards by really? · · Score: 1

      You sure? Well, it works for me.

      --

      "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
    5. Re:Poor Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You know, it is around here someone starts posting links to the BSD Babe..... You know, like this one... Ooops!

      Time to smoke test a BSD server I say!

    6. Re:Poor Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make sure you're getting checked at the Free Clinic regularly, dude.

  8. Re:Netcraft Confirms... by oberondarksoul · · Score: 1

    I think you've stumbled into the wrong place. linux.slashdot.org is just down the hall, to your left.

    *ducks and runs* I kid! I kid!

    --
    And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
  9. some... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    MMU-less CPUs and/or itanium (this one has been started i think), s390, FR-V, nec v-850, 64-bit MIPS, super-h, all of them supported by Linux. Of course netbsd also supports lots of architectures that linux doesn't but that doesn't means netbsd supports "everything". Linux also has pretty good support for everything that IBM uses.

    1. Re:some... by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 1

      Those are true, except the super-h one.

    2. Re:some... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and I'm sure you can build Linux from the same codebase with a couple of simple commands too. *rolls eyes*

    3. Re:some... by sznupi · · Score: 1

      I dig up a bit wanting to put it on one of my spare computers...and it doesn't support it. I'm shocked O_o

      (Powermac 7200)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    4. Re:some... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Err yes, you can.

      But, ha ha, this is funny -- did you think the requirement of having to use "a couple of simple commands" is some measure of the portability of the code? Heh heh.

      I'll add a couple more: 64-bit powerpc, 64-bit parisc, etrax (cris), xtensa processors, s390 and s390x, M32R.

    5. Re:some... by alc6379 · · Score: 3, Informative
      I dig up a bit wanting to put it on one of my spare computers...and it doesn't support it. I'm shocked O_o

      Don't believe the hype. That's one of few Powermacs not supported by NetBSD. Want to know why? It's not for lack of want or trying-- the 7200 was, and still is, a bastard child of the Power Macintosh line.

      --Alex
      (Owner of Power Mac 8500s and 8600s that run NetBSD like champs. For extra street-cred, I've installed it successfully on older Mac IIci's, and SE/30's.)

      --
      I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
    6. Re:some... by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Hmmm...from their explanation it seems like overall it's quite capable running NetBSD...but its CPU isn't supported, and they're waiting for other port (RS/6000) to add support. Not exactly trying...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    7. Re:some... by toomanyhandles · · Score: 1

      How does the SE/30 so, netowrkwise, with NEtBSD? Which release were you running? I run -current on my Cobalt Qube 2 (MIPS). 1.6.2 was OK, I'm much happier with -current, in terms of pkg builds. Both were stable. I've a few SE/30's under my desk, as footrests, that could turn into sftpd servers if they could move data at any sort of useable speed- but I think they'd be too slow? I've only tried ftp on them via NEtPresenz or similar, is NetBSD faster? Thanks!

    8. Re:some... by alc6379 · · Score: 1
      I was running 1.6.1 on the SE/30 I have. It transferred data well enough on the 10BT Ethernet card it had-- so long as you're not hammering it, you'd be OK. I mostly did NFS stuff, not FTP, though. I'm not sure how well SFTP would work out, what with the CPU speed being rather scant.

      After I got through with it, I just wiped it and threw Mac OS 7.1 back on it. With the low amount of RAM it had (8MB), it was refreshing to get something that had a usable GUI and I had a comprehensive suite of old-timey apps to work with it.

      --
      I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
  10. Stolen Code from OpenBSD? by jack_csk · · Score: 0, Troll

    Due to the recent release of more advanced and secure OpenBSD 3.8, I suspect that NetBSD 2.1 is stealing codes from OpenBSD.
    Oh wait, both of them were derived from the same codebase and are under BSD license...

  11. Flamebait? by temojen · · Score: 2, Informative

    I actually have a VAX and no tape drive (nor any machine that could load NetBSD onto a tape drive). Without some way to get NetBSD onto it, it's pretty much a paperweight. I have a Linux box and a SCSI card, so I could install that way, except that doesn't seem to be an option.

    1. Re:Flamebait? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Geesh...I've got a variety of 4000-series VAX...yeah, I can boot from TK50 or TK70 if I really want to waste time...but if you're realistic, Just do a netboot from a Linux box
      although you'll have to use a pre-ELF boot (1.51 works just fine)

    2. Re:Flamebait? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      which model of VAX, with what peripherals and i/o?

    3. Re:Flamebait? by HolyCrapSCOsux · · Score: 1

      I had the opposite problem about 8 months ago. I had BSD running on a x86. For fun I wanted to install SCO OpenUNIX (386 version) that I got at a Goodwill Store for $15. (manuals and everything!) but it was a QIC-02 release, and alas, I had no tape drive. :P

      --
      0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
    4. Re:Flamebait? by strlen · · Score: 1

      You can use MOP (the vax network boot) to install NetBSD onto it -- I've done that before and it worked very well (install from the network and onto the HD). NetBSD ran okay, though of course it was far slower than OpenVMS.

    5. Re:Flamebait? by temojen · · Score: 1

      MicroVax 3100, SCSI, 3 terminal ports, 2 of those wide ports for lots of terminals, 10base2, and a bunch of ports I don't recognise. I also got a stack of SCSI drives in the 200MB-2GB range at the same sale (used computer shop was bankrupt).

    6. Re:Flamebait? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      I see, netbsd.org hasn't gotten around to updating its vax install page, just page dated 1999 about tape booting (with promise new page is coming Real Soon Now) A little more digging and there's this page for either diskless or diskful vaxstation netboot: http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/netboo t/intro.vax.html

  12. *BSD by onetruedabe · · Score: 4, Informative

    I find a hard time keeping track of all the *BSDs.

    There are THREE (not counting DragonFly BSD)

      OpenBSD = Secure
      FreeBSD = Feature-Rich
      NetBSD = Portable (54 Architectures?!)

    Contrast that to the seventeen-jillion Linux distros out there; I hardly think folks can complain about being confused by the overwhelming multitude (NOT!) of BSD derivatives.

    Seriously, though. I like to tell people BSD stands for "Better Stripped Down" 'cuz if you need a small server, running on commodity (read: "used") hardware, BSD will serve you very well.

    You don't want your firewall running OOo, or come standard with seven different mail readers. Lean and mean, that's BSD's selling point.

    1. Re:*BSD by SpinJaunt · · Score: 1
      You don't want your firewall running OOo
      You could theorectically, if you used NetBSD/Xen.
      --
      /. is good for you.
    2. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lean and mean, that's BSD's selling point.

      I thought it was "faster"? Oh wait, that myth was comprehensively destroyed by real facts

      "Better TCP/IP stack" until Linux soundly beat all other comers in all the tcp land speed records.

      Then "more scalable"? Ditto

      "More portable"? Oh wait...

      "More secure" was a good one until people realised that Linux has the same features as something like OpenBSD (stack protection, propolice, etc) while also having a far more advanced access and policy infrastructure. And that OpenBSD's measure of security didn't actually include a useful system.

      Then we had to start moving into grey areas

      "cleaner" - ha! this was coming from people who didn't even know how to code

      "better engineered" - coming from non engineers

      "lean and mean".

      Newsflash: Linux can be configured down to run in less than 2MB of memory, with full TCP/IP stack and busybox, and several hundred K leftover for userspace. It can be configured to run in well under 512K with less services and without MMU support.

      What's next? "cool and mean"? "radical"? "awesome and mean and hyper mean"?

      Wooo. Go BSD.

    3. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      > "Better TCP/IP stack" until Linux soundly beat all other comers in all the tcp land speed records.

      Weird, NetBSD holds the land speed records :D
      http://www.netbsd.org/Changes/#internet2-landspeed 2

      > Then "more scalable"? Ditto
      I agree that's linux' forte right now. SMP support in *BSDs is no way as mature as linux'

      > "More portable"? Oh wait...
      NetBSD is indeed more portable than linux. Sure, linux claims to support more architectures, but the vanilla kernels often fail to compile on non-i386 machines (PPC wasn't compilable by default until like 2 years ago), and hmm.. getting the machine to work only up to single user mode is not what I would quality as running linux.. NetBSD on the other hand fully supports all the architectures it claims to support.

      > "More secure"
      Other than known flaws in server software, that depends on the qualifications of the system administrator more than anything.

      > "cleaner" - ha! this was coming from people who didn't even know how to code
      o_O okays...

      > "better engineered" - coming from non engineers
      I'm sure you're really qualified as well :p

      > "lean and mean"
      They are.

      Stop being such a fanboy, who seems to be using linux because EVERYTHING ELSE sucks, and not because linux is good.

    4. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Weird, NetBSD holds the land speed records :D

      http://lsr.internet2.edu/

      I'm talking about *now*, not a year and a half ago.

      NetBSD is indeed more portable than linux.

      No it isn't, Linux runs on far more CPu architectures.

      Sure, linux claims to support more architectures, but the vanilla kernels often fail to compile on non-i386 machines (PPC wasn't compilable by default until like 2 years ago), and hmm.. getting the machine to work only up to single user mode is not what I would quality as running linux.. NetBSD on the other hand fully supports all the architectures it claims to support.

      Again, I'm talking about now rather than years ago. I take a recent kernel and I can compile it and run it on my i386, x86-64, ppc64 G5, and ia64 systems no problems. NetBSD runs on half of these. I'm just speaking from experience, but I have no evidence to believe that support for obscure architectures on Linux is any less stable than NetBSD and neither do you it seems.

      > "lean and mean"
      They are.


      Maybe, but not in comparison with their peers, which makes the statement misleading.

      Stop being such a fanboy, who seems to be using linux because EVERYTHING ELSE sucks, and not because linux is good.

      I wasn't. I was rebutting the BSD zealots who think BSD is better than EVERYTHING ELSE ESPECIALLY LINUX.

    5. Re:*BSD by moro_666 · · Score: 1

      do you read what you write ?

      you do realize that you just throw a hardware benchmark result at the efficiency statement ? i'm pretty sure that netbsd's networking overhead is smaller than the one of linux and therefore it will be faster on the same hardware

      the comment 2 steps above said that netbsd is really portable to many plaforms, whereas linux can only boot in single mode on quite many of the "supported architectures". and as an answer to that you proudly show 4 most common platforms working (go try to compile your linux on an arm handheld :p)

      --- ? enugh pointless bashing ? ---

      i have used both, linux and *bsd. i'm very fond of the innovative linux world and yet i was illuminated by the simplicity and secureness of the *bsd world. (in a way gentoo linux seems to be a nice hybride which brings them both together in some ways). recent releases of most linux distributions are overbloated and default installs are filled with software that can't be secure all the way through (for example, if in gaim a security hole would be discovered, most ubuntu and other gnome based distros would be affected right away ...). i hope there will be a cleanup in the linux world some time soon so we have 2-3 major distributions (from which at least 1 should be non commercial), otherwise it will be very hard to track down what's really going on. the current my fedore is better than your mandrake and his slackware is better than her suse and gentoo will own da ubuntu rabbits (you can use your own imagination to continue from here), is really annyoing.

      they are both great operating systems and their competition in the unix world just makes it a better result for us all. however your factless and non-thought-thru bashing attempts here are not improving anything. so please keep em to yourself.

      i would choose *bsd for real servers and linux for desktops/lowend servers. just right tool for the right job. as people choose airplanes for flying and parachutes for jumpin down.

      and i hope there will be some new milestone for standards some time too (like posix or sys v) which will unite the unix worlds again to some point of compatibility. in the recent years the unix distros have forked quite a lot, so a working code on one unix box can really take some time to be ported to another.

      --

      I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
    6. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you read what you write ?

      Yes

      you do realize that you just throw a hardware benchmark result at the efficiency statement ? i'm pretty sure that netbsd's networking overhead is smaller than the one of linux and therefore it will be faster on the same hardware

      Oh sorry, last time NetBSD held the speed record you BSD zealots were shouting it from the clifftops.

      And you may be pretty sure about netbsd's overhead compared with linux, but you really have no numbers so you're just basing your arguments on emotion.

      the comment 2 steps above said that netbsd is really portable to many plaforms, whereas linux can only boot in single mode on quite many of the "supported architectures".

      Err, no sorry that comment is wrong wrong.

      and as an answer to that you proudly show 4 most common platforms working (go try to compile your linux on an arm handheld :p)

      Linux supports ARM extremely well actually and there are plenty of commercial embedded ARM devices out there running Linux.

      And they are by no means the 4 most common platforms - ARM outsells all other CPUs put together.

      --- ? enugh pointless bashing ? ---

      Pointless bashing? Ho - like your unfounded claims that NetBSD's network stack is faster than Linux? Or saying that most of Linux's ports can only boot single user mode?

      [snip pointless ranting]

      Yeah whatever.

    7. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No it isn't, Linux runs on far more CPu architectures."

      That just means that Linux is more ported not more portable.

      It is more ported because it has many more developers working towards porting it to different architectures. You might call it brute strength porting. This is no doubt a strength, but technically doesn't make the Linux kernel inherantly more portable.

      NetBSD, on the other hand, is an entire operating system that is ported to all of its different architectures from the same source tree, by one organisation (made up of a relatively small group of programmers), making it inherantly more portable, and more easily ported.

      I'm not suggesting that one is better than the other, but when looked at objectively and accurately, it must be said that NetBSD is the more portable operating system.

    8. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever, you bullshit artist.

      Linux is more ported, ergo it is more portable.

      Not "oh in fairy land where this group of magical elfs from tinkle town ports netbsd to the pixy cpu architecture, that makes it objectively and accurately more portable than Linux".

      Linux runs on about 50% more CPU architectures than NetBSD, including classes of CPUs that NetBSD can't even support (eg. MMUless CPUs).

      What's more, it is not even clear that Linux is more difficult to port to another CPU architecture than NetBSD. Go and do a du on the architecture specific code for a single architecture in the kernel in NetBSD head and Linux 2.6 head. For Alpha (which will probably give the most accurate results), NetBSD actually has significantly more code.

      Further, Linux has far more developers, true. This doesn't mean it has far more developers trying to port it to new architectures. A single developer did the initial x86-64 port, a single developer did the initial sparc and sparc64 ports. A single developer did the cris port.

      No, the developers are generally working on far more interesting things, like cluster filesystems, or getting the kernel to scale up to 512 CPU systems, or down to embedded devices with 512K RAM.

    9. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau

    10. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Meaningless sayings are employed by those who can't counter any other points made in an argument against them." -- me

    11. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't really see much of a point in arguing with you as I obviously can't change your mind, but if you insist:

      NetBSD's fast portability is due to its Modular Portability Layer (MPL). With the MPL, the driver is completely isolated from the hardware platform, I/O instructions or no I/O instructions, interlocking, retry error recovery, bounce buffers, memory type boundaries, scatter/gather maps in host bridges, even peripherals are transparently handled beneath the driver layer. Several embedded systems using NetBSD have required no additional software development other than toolchain and target rehost.

      With Linux, however, device driver code must be reworked for every new architecture. Wasabi Systems engineers ported NetBSD to the SuperH processor core in under six weeks; Linux took three months. NetBSD was ported to the AMD x86-64 architectures in about a month; Linux took six months. NetBSD supports over fifty architectures from the same source tree meaning any change to the machine independent code is available to all architectures as soon as the build system can churn them out.

      Even AMD agrees:

      "According to Ed Gasiorowski, director of developer relations for AMD's Computation Products Group, the port to AMD's Opteron processor was extremely fast. "I think the initial port was probably about two days [and] might have been as short as one day. That was a full 64-bit port." He told NewsFactor that the speed of the port was due to the quality of NetBSD's codebase. "We were quite impressed with how clean the code was.... This code was ready for 64-bit before it ever got to porting over to Opteron. Not only from having done it before [porting to a 64-bit system], but also good programming practices." - read full article at: http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/21244.html

      "Due to NetBSD's ease of portability, Wasabi was able to get up and running on AMD's x86-64 platform several months sooner than other teams could port Linux."
      - full article: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1150126 ,00.asp

      Again, I am not saying that NetBSD is better that Linux, just an inherently more portable opertaing system.

    12. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NetBSD's fast portability is due to its Modular Portability Layer (MPL). With the MPL, the driver is completely isolated from the hardware platform, I/O instructions or no I/O instructions, interlocking, retry error recovery, bounce buffers, memory type boundaries, scatter/gather maps in host bridges, even peripherals are transparently handled beneath the driver layer.

      Umm... yeah this is how its done in Linux too. They don't even need a fancy TLA for it - it is simply the obvious way to write a portable operating system.

      With Linux, however, device driver code must be reworked for every new architecture.

      No, this is patently, 100% wrong. You probably got this from Wasabi Systems, they spread FUD about Linux like it is going out of fashion. No, *YOU* made the claim that NetBSD is more portable, so I want to see *YOUR* reasons why, not some crap cut and pasted out of a website you read.

      Wasabi Systems engineers ported NetBSD to the SuperH processor core in under six weeks; Linux took three months. NetBSD was ported to the AMD x86-64 architectures in about a month; Linux took six months.

      I don't know how they know the details of the Linux port because it was initially done under NDA and even before the hardware came out (ie. on emulators).

      But if it did take longer then I wouldn't be particularly surprised. Linux has advanced features like NUMA and SMP that is key for good Opteron support.

      NetBSD supports over fifty architectures from the same source tree meaning any change to the machine independent code is available to all architectures as soon as the build system can churn them out.

      This is "clever" wording. Most of the "architectures" are just platforms (or system architectures) rather than CPU architectures. Linux is ported to about 50% more CPU architectures and more platforms than NetBSD from the same source tree.

      And likewise any change to MI code is available to all architectures... by definition, right?

      Even AMD agrees: ...

      This is nice, but nothing to do with NetBSD portability compared to Linux though. Linux was obviously 64-bit ready as well, as it was ported to ia64 and ppc64 -- incedentally, the current 2 fastest GP CPUs on the planet (Itanium2 and POWER5+) neither of which NetBSD supports.

      "Due to NetBSD's ease of portability, Wasabi was able to get up and running on AMD's x86-64 platform several months sooner than other teams could port Linux."
      - full article: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1150126 ,00.asp


      Again, Wasabi are trolls and probably wrong because Linux was running on emulators before the hardware was released.... but why are you so fixated on speed of the port? Hey, Linux was ported to ia64 several *years* before NetBSD could port to it (and it is still pretty broken), likewise for PPC64.

      Again, I am not saying that NetBSD is better that Linux, just an inherently more portable opertaing system.

      I don't think you've proved your point at all.

      It is funny that the machine dependant portions of code for a single port are generally much bigger on NetBSD than Linux (for those with equivalent functionality and support). Combined with the fact that Linux actually is ported to many more architectures than NetBSD that build from the same source tree, there is a strong argument that Linux is more portable.

      Another thing, NetBSD cannot support a CPU architecture that doesn't have an MMU. It simply cannot support such a port. Linux can. Linux is obviously "inherently more portable" in this case, right?

    13. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Again, Wasabi are trolls and probably wrong because Linux was running on emulators before the hardware was released"

      NetBSD was running on those same emulators before Linux, as stated here:

      http://slashdot.org/bsd/01/06/22/192225.shtml

      "but why are you so fixated on speed of the port?"

      Because the speed of the port suggests that the operating system is easier to port, particularly considering that there would have been less NetNSD developers working on almost any given port, but particularly on AMD x86/64, than Linux developers (less resources, faster results)

      And this is my point. NetBSD has less resources, both in terms of human resources as well as access to hardware, but when looked at on relatively equal grounds, such as with the x86/64 port, NetBSD is ported more quickly.

    14. Re:*BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      NetBSD was running on those same emulators before Linux, as stated here:

      http://slashdot.org/bsd/01/06/22/192225.shtml


      Err...

      New York, N.Y., June 22nd, 2001 - Wasabi Systems, the leading provider of the NetBSD operating system, today announced the completion of a preliminary port of NetBSD to AMD's 64-bit x86-64 architecture. The port has been tested on Virtutech's VirtuHammer x86-64 simulation tool.


      $ cat linux-2.6/arch/x86_64/Makefile

      ... # 20000913 Pavel Machek \n# Converted for x86_64 architecture


      So it is not at all clear that NetBSD was running before Linux or not. Sure maybe the *preliminary* port was commited to NetBSD dev head before Linux, but that's more to do with release engineering and project goals than technical viability of the port.

      I know for a fact that SUSE and AMD had unreleased working x86-64 kernels for some time before they were merged.

  13. BSD rocks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I still run FreeBSD on my server. Yes, any other distribution of Linux/BSD would do just fine, but I just find FreeBSD is more at home.

    Oh wait, it was my first Unix varient. Oops.

  14. But does it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...run on my playstation 2 linux kit?

    1. Re:But does it... by dow · · Score: 1

      Yes, the link is on www.netbsd.org to http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/playstation2/, as already posted. Or were you trying to be funny? Theres a reason I set Slashdot to mod AC's down. The list of ports is on the main page for smegs sake.

  15. ...but does it run on Playstation2 Linux Kit? Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
  16. compared to linux? by johansalk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a linux newbie, I'm still learning bash and gnu/posix; what's the advantage of netBSD/BSDs over linux?

    1. Re:compared to linux? by fyoder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For servers I can install a minimalist FreeBSD setup very quickly and administer it from the command line. The main OSS server stuff installs on FreeBSD with little if any problem. Perhaps there is a 'Lean Linux' distro that would be similarly suitable. I prefer a popular linux distro like Fedora or Mandriva for the desktop.

      --
      Loose lips lose spit.
    2. Re:compared to linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The BSD zealots aren't complete dicks.

    3. Re:compared to linux? by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      So, they are incomplete dicks?

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    4. Re:compared to linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The advantage is simply the philosophy difference between the BSD world and the GNU world. For some things, BSDs are faster and more secure. Linux tends to have more hardware support for low end hardware and therefore is good for the 300 dollar dells that people buy. The cheaper your hardware the better. Another oddity with linux is that it runs on really expensive IBM mainframes. Anything in the middle and you're better off with another OS.

      NetBSD's goal is to run on everything but they tend to not include drivers sometimes. Its the fastest OS i've ever used on sparc hardware. I've used linux, netbsd, and often run freebsd. I can tell you that BSDs are administered a bit differently and the ports (pkgsrc i think in netbsd) collection is a god send. Its like gentoo's portage and gentoo is heavily influenced by BSD based oses. If you like gentoo, you'd love to step up to the real thing. Now if you're a redhat GUI i want it to do everything kind of guy stick to fedora, ubuntu, mandrake or the like. They are for the masses. DesktopBSD or several other bsd for the masses projects may someday yield a similar bsd offering.

      In open source land, there's now a selection. Linux (distro list here), FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, OpenDarwin/Darwin, DragonFlyBSD, DesktopBSD (although just freebsd with a gui not a real fork), Solaris/OpenSolaris. Pick based on your needs: hardware support, ease of use, features and how you think. Some people just get system v unix and others prefer bsd. I think most linux distros lean toward system v minus gentoo and solaris is in that camp obviously. Everything else listed is a bsd style os with darwin being the freak mach (richard stallman wishes) version. In case you haven't noticed its a holy war. To summorize, its like asking why linux is better than windows to me. (linux is obviously better) But, there are select few things that windows excels at like running your local game store's games.

      Oh not to confuse you, richard stallman is the guy that made this all possible. His vision is to give everyone NEXTSTEP by duplicating software from 1988 that steve jobs had and rebranding it GNU/Mach GNU/Hurd and using the GNUSTEP and windowmaker software to accomplish his task. Someday we'll have free NEXTSTEP. For now he settles for the Linux kernel which he can't control. If he didn't, he'd have no kernel for his lovely GNU userland.

      So you see the linux system is flawed in one sense.. the kernel is not tied to the userland (software that you run). The advantage is portability and the down side is speed and integration. Its the tossup between linux and every other OS i've listed. Strictly speaking linux is just a kernel and the GNU supplies the rest. There's an effort among the BSD zealots to replace every GNU program with a BSD licensed replacement. Its a big pissing match. You can love linux and not like the GNU and i think most people fall into this category that give kudos to linux. If this weren't true, everyone would be working on GNU/Hurd right now.

      If you have more questions, look at www.gnu.org, www.netbsd.org and www.freebsd.org for more information.

      I have six computers in my home and 4 run bsd derived operating systems. I couldn't be happier with them.

    5. Re:compared to linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use Slackware for that purpose. Then again, I hear it is the closest Linux distro to the *BSD OSes

    6. Re:compared to linux? by Morth · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hrm, I sort of agree, but I wouldn't say linux is slower, because it depends very much on what you do. The extra hardware support might also matter, if you have something unusual.

      However, a big advantage of BSD is the base distribution where you get libraries and base tools together with the kernel. There's no risk of a system call existing in the libraries but not in the kernel, and there's no risk of the basic tools being out of sync. Some linux dists are sort of like this too, but it's usually more cumbersome to keep it that way.

      NetBSD is the absolutely cleanest OS source base I've found, which is good for stability. Linux (and even FreeBSD to some extent) tends to be very hackish and bloated (one patch upon another). This is probably due to the review process every patch has to go through, which of course on the other hand leads to a slower development process.

      And finally, it should be mentioned that the licences are different, though it mostly affects distribution and not usage.

  17. Netboot? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Guess you missed the install document detailing how to netboot a VAX.

    http://vaxarchive.pimpworks.org/swdist/bsd/bdc/VAX -netboot-HOWTO.html

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  18. Yeah so.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... on a slightly related topic, anyone know how the hell to get *BSD installed on an HP/Compaq laptop (specifically the HP zv6000)?

    And if you say the following, as they have been in the mailing list:
    set hw.acpi.skip_timer_override="1"
    set hint.atkbd.0.flags="0x9"
    set hint.acpi.0.disabled="1" ... then I'm going to have to eat your brain. It doesn't work.

  19. just like the working stiffs then by toby · · Score: 2, Funny
    "writing code others will get rich [from]" -- sounds like a perfect description of any ordinary proprietary commercial programmer to me. Those guys don't get showered in gold, and rarely even recognition outside their cubicle farm.

    However, if you are trying to draw a distinction between the BSD license and a free license such as the GPL, you might have a point.

    But then there's always that slim, slim chance you have neither a point, nor a clue how open source works.

    --
    you had me at #!
  20. abcd by pkplex · · Score: 1

    Two of most my favourate OS released in close proximity to each other. Yay :)

    Anyone else here find they often switch back and forth between BSD's ?

    1. Re:abcd by laffer1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't switch exactly, but each bsd seems to have a niche on certain hardware. NetBSD is the fastest os i've ever used on sparc hardware and openbsd runs great on g3 macs. I tend to run FreeBSD on ia32 hardware.

  21. NetBSD over FreeBSD? by LogicX · · Score: 1

    I've been using FreeBSD for many years, and I admit to having never tried NetBSD. Could anyone convince me of a reason why I should try it, why it may be better than FreeBSD, what advantages it holds over other BSDs?

    --
    May this post be indexed by spiders, and archived for all to see as my Internet epitaph.
    1. Re:NetBSD over FreeBSD? by laffer1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      NetBSD is very fast for certain operations and is often used in networking research (internet2, ipv6, etc). If you don't have an SMP box or hyperthreading its quite fast and in my opinion the best os on sparc architectures. The ports system is a bit different. They have something called pkgsrc thats portable across operating systems. All bsds have a twist on the ports collection really. Its a big factor in choosing.

      I'm a FreeBSD user primarily and I think NetBSD has some good points like major portability. I think they do more testing and its generally a more stable OS. FreeBSD 6.0 release should fix most of the recent problems. Think of NetBSD like a continuation of FreeBSD 4.x more. There are a lot of differences, but mostly small things. FreeBSD 5 and 6 are attempts to improve dual core, SMP, and hyperthreading based computers in the long haul.

      NetBSD and FreeBSD people don't tend to get along simply becuase there's real competition lately between the two projects. Both are great operating systems and I think both are good at different tasks. If you plan on running a bsd on non ia32 hardware, definetely check out NetBSD. It might be worth trying it just to see if there are any unique features. If you are a programmer and like freebsd more, you can help out and add some of the great netbsd features to freebsd or vise versa.

    2. Re:NetBSD over FreeBSD? by chrysalis · · Score: 1

      "Think of NetBSD like a continuation of FreeBSD 4.x more" No, no, no, no. The continuation of FreeBSD 4.x is DragonFlyBSD.

      --
      {{.sig}}
    3. Re:NetBSD over FreeBSD? by FST777 · · Score: 1

      4.3 BSD Reno -> BSD Net/2
      BSD Net/2 -> NetBSD 0.8
      BSD Net/2 -> 386BSD -> FreeBSD 1.0
      4.3 BSD Reno -> 4.4 BSD Lite
      NetBSD 0.8 + 4.4 BSD Lite -> NetBSD 1.0
      FreeBSD 1.0 + 4.4 BSD Lite -> FreeBSD 2.0

      (skipped some versions and connections)

      Related? Yes, but NetBSD has essentially nothing to do with FreeBSD 4.
      Matt Dillon started DragonflyBSD as the continuation of FreeBSD 4. FreeBSD 5 is is some ways more advanced than 4, but it is most clear that 4 is more stable, so there one *might* say that it is more similar to NetBSD.

      For day to day use (on my desktop and on the servers I administer) I highly prefer FreeBSD 5. FreeBSD 4 or NetBSD might be better when stability is an issue, but I find FreeBSD 5 simply more easy to use.

      --
      Free beer is never free as in speech. Free speech is always free as in beer.
    4. Re:NetBSD over FreeBSD? by Gandalf_007 · · Score: 1

      While this is not a reason for most people, NetBSD has much better ext2 support (for mounting Linux disks). At least under FreeBSD 5.3, ext2fs partitions would not unmount properly upon shutdown, causing ALL partitions to be fsck'ed next boot (workaround: have the shutdown script manually unmount them earlier), and worse, they cannot be NFS-exported. This made my file server rather useless.

      NetBSD has no such problems, and so works better for me. My /home is on a separate disk that was originally created on a Linux box, and as all *BSDs can mount ext2, I thought reformatting wouldn't be necessary. With FreeBSD, I would have thought wrong...

      I've also grown to like pkgsrc, which like the rest of NetBSD, is quite portable, running on a bunch of other OS's. Its audit-packages functionality is quite nice, which can easily be set up to run as part of the daily security scan and email you if vulnerabilites have been found for any installed packages. Also, its release schedule is independent of NetBSD itself -- stable releases are done quarterly (with binary builds), but you can cvs update a specific package (or the whole tree) any time you like, to get newer versions, without having to deal with running the -current OS.

      Plus, it has a nice filesystem hierarchy -- stuff in base is in /usr/{bin,lib,sbin,share,...}; pkgsrc stuff in /usr/pkg/{bin,...}; and stuff in /usr/local/{bin,...} is stuff that you put there (what a novel concept!).

      --

      "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
    5. Re:NetBSD over FreeBSD? by Luke+Mewburn · · Score: 1

      What features does FreeBSD 5 have over FreeBSD 4 that make the former "simply more easy to use" ?

      If it's features such as rc.d as rc(8) or rescue(8), then those features were obtained from NetBSD, even if the history section in those two manual pages neglects to mention this heritage.

    6. Re:NetBSD over FreeBSD? by FST777 · · Score: 1

      I use FreeBSD 5.3/5.4/6 as my desktop at home, at work and on my laptop. I find it easier to deploy there because of the vast amount of software available on it. That's the only reason really. I use it too on a few servers at work, I chose it there because of UFS2, and the easy installation of the needed software (from ports, yes, not from packages)

      anyway, YMMV, I just plain like it. It's not as stable as FreeBSD 4 though, nor as robust as NetBSD/i386. I've just upgraded world and kernel on my workstation at home to 6-STABLE and are rebuilding all my packages. I won't go through that on any machine at work as long as it runs fine. I will definitely install 6.0-RELEASE or 6-STABLE at any new machine I need to deploy, especially on laptops.

      --
      Free beer is never free as in speech. Free speech is always free as in beer.
  22. XFree86 or XOrg? by andrewagill · · Score: 1

    It looks like they're still using XFree86. Are they planning to change?

    1. Re:XFree86 or XOrg? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      X.org is in that list if you look properly.

  23. Anatomy of a Failed Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *silence*

  24. Re:...but does it run on Playstation2 Linux Kit? Y by hubertf · · Score: 1

    IIRC gxemul can emulate a PS2...
    http://gavare.se/gxemul/

      - Hubert

  25. Package Lists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always wondered, is there some web repository or list I could look at to see what current versions of software is available on the various releases of the BSDs?

    1. Re:Package Lists by dow · · Score: 1

      Click Here for a list of all 5631 packages in the package collection. Or here for the packages indexed by category. The NetBSD website is really well organised, the documentation is top notch. If only more Linux distibutions were like this. I use a mixture of Slackware and NetBSD here, and am very happy. I have windows on a hard disk in a static bag in a cardboard box which I use to change toners in my printer.

      Seriously, the package system for NetBSD is one of the best I've used, which is a fair compliment from a long time Slackware user. Even thinking of using pkgsrc under Slackware, as the instructions to do so are listed on netbsd.org. NetBSD is fast, stable, secure, with low overheads and I would reccomend it to anyone who already has a clue. I first ran it on my old Amiga, which I intend to do again some day for the geek points.

  26. Why is this garbage modded up? by bogie · · Score: 1

    Linux is only useful on either a $300 crap box or a high end mainframe? WTF are you talking about? Anything in the middle and your better off with another OS?

    "To summorize, its like asking why linux is better than windows to me. (linux is obviously better) "

    Really? I guess you must own one of those crap walmart boxes then.

    Your post has a few truths and a lots of BS. It's really unhelpful for someone truly interested in the differences between netbsd and linux.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
  27. Gross Misrepresentation of GNU by amightywind · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So you see the linux system is flawed in one sense.. the kernel is not tied to the userland (software that you run).

    You don't know what you are talking about. Both BSD and Linux interface with 'userland' the same ways, through device drivers and the C library.

    There's an effort among the BSD zealots to replace every GNU program with a BSD licensed replacement.

    Such people are in the minority. The GNU Core Utilities are generally regarded as superior to their BSD counterparts. Indeed it was the builtin limitations of BSD utilities motivated many of the standards to which GNU software is written. May I also point out that BSD uses the GNU compiler stack. It won't be easy to purge BSD of that, unless you still fancy programming in old style C on the PDP-11.

    Its a big pissing match. You can love linux and not like the GNU and i think most people fall into this category that give kudos to linux.

    The only ones left pissing are the BSD fanboys. The GNU/Linux folks are too busy.

    If this weren't true, everyone would be working on GNU/Hurd right now.

    Stallman himself has said that he wouldn't have pursued Hurd if the Linux kernel has been available when the Hurd project was launched. There is no controversy.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
  28. parent is nonsense. Mod back down pls by toby · · Score: 1
    ... The cheaper your hardware the better. Another oddity with linux is that it runs on really expensive IBM mainframes. Anything in the middle and you're better off with another OS.

    You don't know what you're talking about. I've installed and run Linux on probably 70 different machines from el-crappo PCs, high end PCs, laptops, low and middle end servers... Runs beautifully on all of them. You should try it some time.

    richard stallman is the guy that made this all possible. His vision is to give everyone NEXTSTEP by duplicating software from 1988 that steve jobs had and rebranding it GNU/Mach GNU/Hurd and using the GNUSTEP and windowmaker software to accomplish his task. Someday we'll have free NEXTSTEP.

    See above: This is complete rubbish. For Stallman's vision, see gnu.org and fsf.org.

    --
    you had me at #!