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Grokster Shutting Down?
An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo news is reporting that Grokster is shutting down. In a settlement with Hollywood and the music industry Grokster will be permanently banned from 'participating directly or indirectly in the theft of copyrighted files and requires the company to stop giving away its software.'" A continuation on their deal with Mashboxx, or the end of grokster entirely?
This sucks!
Oh. Grokster.
never mind.
Nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained -Tom Baker, Doctor Who
or the end of grokster entirely?
Regardless of if it's the end of the software, it's the end of the spirit.
"There are plenty of services where you can download music and movies legally. This is not one of them." Yikes!
Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration, which is why engineers sometimes smell really bad.
Uh, wait, I thought file-sharing technology was used for a variety of things. Yeah, it's mostly file-swapping of copyrighted material, but hardly the only use. According to the AP, let's just ignore the legal uses entirely and pretend that the whole purpose of this technology was to steal.
"This is a chapter that ends on a high note for the recording industry, the tech community and music fans and consumers everywhere," said Mitch Bainwol, head of the Recording Industry Association of America.
This is a temporary victory only for the RIAA. They can't change the fact that their business model is becoming obsolete.
Bradley Holt
Cue the almost unanimous outcry about how this guy is not speaking for us.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
as to what other kinds of software might be construed as having a hand "directly, or indirectly" in piracy and is subject to being shut down? Apache HTTP server? Outlook Email? Mozilla Firefox? "The Internet"?
It seems you just can't fight corporate giants with billion dollar legal power...
It's one thing to shut them down. It's another thing entirely to require them to say something that sounds like a scolded child. I can't *prove* sounding like a scolded child was part of the deal, but i don't think i'm out of line assuming that that statement is less than 100% voluntary
They'll probably be back, but you'll have to pay for the service.
public class null extends java applet { System.out.print ("Tabula Rasa"); }
Grokster was never really that popular anyway. Anyway, they can shut down whatever network they want, and they can arrest anyone they want, but they'll never kill P2P off. As long as pirates exist, P2P will exist. It's a fact.
Long live Bittorrent!
Unfortunately for the movie and record industries P2P already exists. Killing the specific tools, in this case grokster, is not going to end the treats and the downloading. They are going to find that in the end they are going to have to give up against an overwhelming force that is too much for them. They have already killed, or at least neutered, Napster and now they got grokster but they still will face more, such as the current bittorrent and will face more in the future. As long as they do not provide what the clients want, and theft is not the main reason P2P exists, they are going to continue to face what they see as threats to their wellbeing
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Back in the mid-twentieth century, a company called Xerox was producing a machine which could be used to illegally copy copyrighted materials in books. The courts ruled that the company had to stop making and selling the illegal technology and pay damages to the publishers. At least that's how I remember it.
"Grokster Ltd., a leading developer of Internet file-sharing software popular for stealing songs and movies online, agreed Monday to shut down operations...
... bans Grokster from participating directly or indirectly in the theft of copyrighted files..."
Righteous anger its-not-theft-there's-no-deprivation-of-property flamewar to begin in 3... 2... 1...
Seriously, though, if you want a certain company's product, pay for it. If you wouldn't pay $0.01 for it, then why bother downloading it at all?
And just to forestall the inevitable, NO, I DON'T WORK FOR THE RECORDING INDUSTRY. I just believe that if you don';t think a product is worth the price offered, then you shouldn't buy the product... nor should you look to the black market for the product. Do without, it won;t kill you. And by not pirating the product, you won't help drive the *AA's assertions that they are losing a ton of cash to piracy.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
The article says "BitTorrent" is a service.
Is this true? I thought it was a file transfer protocol.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Of course given the stupidity and greed of the **AAs it would not surprise me to see them attempt to crush BT either by going after Bram Cohen or by having their bought and paid for congresscritters write an exceptionally broad addendum to the DMCA that would ban any development or distribution of P2P software. Of course the inevitable consequences of such a ban will be disastrous, but they'll take several election cycles to materialize, which is far beyond the horizon of the aforementioned congresscritters.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
I, for one, use file-sharing software EXCLUSIVELY for Linux Distros and public domain E-Books...Yeah, right.
Netcraft confirms it. Grokster is dead.
eDonkey
Overnet
Emule-kademlia
BitTorrent
Fasttrack (Kazaa, Imesh, Grobster)
FileTP (FTP/HTTP downloads)
Gnutella (Bearshare, Limewire,etc)
Gnutella2 (Shareaza)
Soulseek
Direct-Connect
Opennap
Most of them are accessable by using a MLdonkey client, some are still in the works. MLdonkey Can be found at http://www.nongnu.org/mldonkey/
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1990: We'll add passwords for computer games. Piracy "stopped."
1995: We'll copy-protect audio CDs. Piracy "stopped."
1997: We'll copy-protect DVDs. Piracy "stopped."
2001: We'll shut Napster down. Piracy "stopped."
2002: We'll shut Kazaa down. Piracy "stopped."
2005: We'll shut Grokster down. Piracy...
Too bad there has never been a single instance of "theft of copyrighted files" on any P2P network that has ever existed
Probably the closest thing to that would be when a filmaker sends a screener, under the terms of a strict agreement with the recipient, to critic or other party for preview. The screener stays the property of the filmaker, and the guy that takes that filmaker's data (even if they eventually return the original media) and gives it out to a couple hundred thousand special "friends" over the 'net can pretty safely be said to have stolen that material. Certainly by any reasonable person's evaluation of the situation (say, while sitting on a jury), that's not so different than running off with any other trade secret or other proprietary information. That scenario, of course, is scarcely imaginary. We've seen it many times already.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Here is the Grokster story from the NYT.
Read Epic the first RPG novel.
New York City - The Mafia has promised not to dip people in concrete and dump them into the Hudson River. In an agreement with FBI and Rudolf Giulani's ego, the Mafia has agreed that it will cease and desist this practice, regarded by some (particularly victims) as being somewhat barbaric, and usually quite illegal. "Da FBI came down on us and says 'Looks Fat Tony, we's getting tired of all da pollution. Peoples gotta drink dis water, ya know what I mean?'" said Fat Tony Lucchese.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The University of Richmond's IP Institute web site has more information and links on this story.
http://ipinstitute.blogspot.com/
Lessee, the guns themselves are just tools, they can be used properly or they can be used improperly. Without knowing the relative proportion of usage of guns in both cases I would state without proof that the latter isnt a miniscule minority.
I believe replacing "guns" with "file sharing apps" wouldnt make the statements above invalid.
So the way I see it, the only real difference is guns have a huge corrupt lobby group FOR it, while file sharing apps have a huge corrupt lobby group AGAINST it. Ethically/morally, I don't see a difference.
Why would one PAY to share files?
1. People are at best ignorant, at worst stupid.
2. The service might actually provide some value-add. Like news-servers, they offer search, retention, stability and download bandwidth without upload (very nice if you're on a very lopsided connection).
3. No matter how you twist it, bulk data is very cheap compared to the IP embodied in those data. You might as well ask "Why would one PAY for CD-Rs to share files?"
4. People are already paying for it. Many people have broadband connections faster than they otherwise would have for the prupose of illegally downloading something off the net.
5. To legitimize themselves. I've heard several people who were using Napster who quit when they were convicted. Everything up to then was like "unclear" even though the users in question were blatantly violating copyright.
Those are just the ones I can think off of the top of my head. If you want it summed up on one line: It's better to pay a little than to pay a lot.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Also new anonymous programs like Mute mute-net.sourceforge.net are emerging.
I no longer need to punish, deceive, or compromise myself. Unless, of course, I want to stay employed.
Yup
Follow the money
The whole outcry against file sharing comes down to control. Most money in music is made on the back catalog. He who owns the distribution channel owns the back catalog and makes the money.
When the next Beatles, or Elvis shows up on the scene, they want to see them signed with a major label, not issuing their CD's via bittorrent, other p2p and their website.
Just like the agents in the matrix, they control all the doors...and they want to keep it that way.
vi +
Whenever replying to someone who uses "theft" when they mean "copyright infingement", just reply substituting the word "murder" since that makes about as much sense. Don't explain, wait for them to ask why you're using that term.
e.g.
Only a small percentage of Grokster's customer base were not murdering music files, that's why they got shut down. I agree that murder of artist's music should not be allowed.
-Ryan C.
What about bands that put their music on P2P networks in order to get noticed? Or bands that are aware that their music is being shared and don't mind?
What about them? Believe it or not, 99% of the sharing on P2P networks is illegal, copyright-infringing content. In fact, that was the networks' primary purpose - the illegal sharing of copyrighted material. Also, that's why they lost their court case - even though the service has other uses, it is overwhelmingly used for piracy.
Compare this to a bong and to a VCR. A VCR has its legal uses - taping a show for personal viewing later harms no-one, and is in fact fair use. Though it can be used to pirate videos, that's not its usual use.
Now, compare it to a bong. Sure,a bong has other uses such as:
a bong's primary purpose is to get high. Hence, where getting high is illegal, bongs are generally illegal. (In fact, they're called "drug paraphenalia." Now, not to open a pandora's box of hippies and "legalize pot" posts, but back to my point:
Grokster was shut down for piracy. The network was created solely to host illegal content, and the vast majority of its traffic was little more than piracy. The few bands that actually used its service can always create/host their own torrents - much easier and better, IMO.
So, don't debate the effects of the "loss" of this "service" to a handful of bands - start debating something more meaningful, like the proper extent of Intellectual Property rights or the fairness of the recording industry's oligopoly.
<GetsOffSoapBox/>
DATABASE WOW WOW
I run a community gaming site that catalogs maps for First Person Shooters. With over 10 GB of maps and growing, P2P combined with magnet links is an incredibly valuable method of file distribution that doesn't require loads of cash, server cycles and bandwidth to operate and maintain. It boasts hundreds of downloads a week. I'd hardly call that "occassional."
No tracking, content control and targeting? Not convenient? You have to share back to get good rates? File descriptions are poor?
Any qualified web admin can implement tracking on the web site that's listing the download whether it be magnet, torrent or otherwise. As well, some P2P apps provide limited download tracking. BitTorrent on it's own does not provide tracking either (you'd have to analyze torrent downloads in the server log files), so your point is kind of moot.
Not convenient? Ever heard of a magnet link? You put a link on your page. Clicking it launches the user's P2P app and starts the download. How is that not convenient? On a comparison to BitTorrent I'd say it's just as, if not more convenient (I don't have to delete old torrent files with magnet links). Compared to HTTP downloads, all P2P tech is obviously less convenient since you have to download P2P software.
Share back to get good rates? Funny... that's how BitTorrent works and a good number of other P2P networks don't.
As I mentioned, magnet links eliminate the problems of the "vast network of crap." They contain a file hash similar to a torrent file and can contain one or more source seed server addresses. They can be put on a website just like any URL with the added benefit that they don't require you to have a one-to-one relationship of all your files to torrent files.
The fact that you even need to maintain and distribute torrent files is a pain. If I've got 4,000 files I want to distribute via BitTorrent, it requires that I maintain 4,000 torrent files. Granted, a software author may not have 4,000 files, but the requirement to maintain them still exists regardless.
The consumer only gets faster downloads with BitTorrent if they are able to get it configured and playing nice with their particular setup. Most, but not all, "average Joes" I've tried to sell BitTorrent on always complain about painful tweaking and crappy speeds because of it. This is primarily because BitTorrent requires you to upload back to the swarm, while others do not.
And a BitTorrent author only pays less for bandwidth if there are a large number of continually connected seeds and peers. If not, the
Many of your arguments in favor of "traditional" P2P networks are very much the same as my arguments in favor Bittorrent. Your use of magnetic links to maintain your system is exactly why "bittorrent type" sharing is so beneficial.
My arguments against traditional P2P lie almost soley in their typical or originally intended use, which is to connect to the network with a client and start searching. This is not particularly convenient to the end user searching for legitimate content. It's much simpler for them to connect to your website and use your magnetic links, which is analogous to connecting to your website and clicking on torrent links.
If I had been more educated about magnetic links, I would have lumped them in with my arguments in favor of that type of file sharing.
...percentage wise. Add up speeding, illegal lane change, driving to endanger, following too closely, failure to use turn signals, DUI and etc,etc, picky point and etc, the traffic on most interstates I have seen is well over 90% illegal. It's just more accepted and tolerated and indulged in by society at this point.
I think perhaps a better analogy might be booze prohibition way back when. Illegal as all get out, indulged by millions regularly, with highly selective harsh law enforcement.
Either way though your point is still valid. The only even half way answer I have for "the file sharing problem" is personal selective shunning. Onerous copyright compounded by gouging level prices, don't share it, don't patronize those concerns with your business either. Just say no, look for something else.
I hit a somewhat middle ground, against the ridiculous prices and vendor lockins with the **AAs products, so I only indulge with used or severely marked down pre recorded media, and those at a very low level. I have never downloaded one single thing that wasn't legal to do so, but I understand people's attitudes about it completely. You just lose all respect for a business that is so overwhelmingly run by and for crooks. There are exceptions of course, but not many.