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End Of Days Compensation Packages?
Waiting for the Axe to Fall asks: "I work for a larger webhosting company that has plans to consolidate one of its west coast data centers with an east coast location which they already have in place. Forget that this is a bad idea in terms of geographical redundancy--it is going to happen. The company did inform all west coast employees about the move, roughly a year in advance. This was done Im sure to ease the shock and fear of loosing ones job. This affects a small group (8-9) of employees, all of whom are tied up in operations and the data center specifically. If you were in this situation (as one of the employees), what would you require/want/wish for in this retention plan? The benefits of staying with the company, until the end, must out weight the risk of being jobless; or is this not the path you would choose? Would you leave as soon as the announcement was made?"
"As employees, the group decided to go to management and request a 'retention plan' of sorts. This is a contract that outlines specific benefits to stay with the company through the move, and help getting the systems across the country without service interruption. The support of these few is a requirement, due to the vast array of legacy and non standard systems. The job could otherwise be done with consultants, however going this route would take substantially longer, and would be at a much greater cost to the company. So, it is truly in their best interests to have the staff that has managed these systems for the past 5-8 years stick it out."
Because if your resume is as grammatically flawed as your post then you're going to be serving me fries w/ my Big Mac.
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Start plotting the massacre of the east coast branch. You should have plenty of time to do it. 8-9 people, if you secure all the exits and have body armor and fully automatic weapons e.g. M-16, AK-47, you should be able to take everyone at the east coast branch out. Problem solved, west side prevails.
Seriously though, why the hell would you ask slashdot a carrer question?
Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
10.
risk of being jobless when you come out of it. If you start looking right away then you will have a year to find a position, but of course you can't tell your future employer that you will be available in a year, they will just move on to the next person. So I would ask for at least 2-3 months pay as severance, and health insurance for at least 6 months after you finish the job. That would give you really 6 months to find a job(since you can start looking about 3 months before your start date) and who knows, maybe you could land a job right away and basically get an extra 3 months salary.
Monstar L
my sister and her husband moved from west to east for a company making silly decisions like this. 3 horrible years later... he is working elsewhere (for a much larger company) making a lot more money. they both say that if they could do it again, they wouldn't.
do what this guy did.
that your "End of Days Compensation Package" is largely determined by your religious beliefs, your compliance to the requirements of those beliefs, and whether or not those religious beliefs are actually backed up by a real God/gods/force/FSM/great nothingness/etc. But I guess you were just talking about losing your job.
Thats' one of the /. editors job's. Alongs with re-posting stories ad nausesm, there also their two ensure that grammer (and upon occasion speling) is held in compleat contempt.
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
Under the COBRA laws, you can continue your health care under your employer's group plan by covering the premiums yourself - that is, you have the right to pick up your employers portion of the bill, so that you can have continuing coverage.
I'd suggest that you get them to cover their end of things for a long period after the end, along with other benefits, in addition to whatever else you want. It may ease your transition somewhat.
Also, a personal appeal to your manager may be in order for help lining up jobs. Be polite and helpful, no matter what you decide, because they feel obligated to help, and you don't want to be the last one in line.
Standard Severance - 4 weeks + 1 week/year of service, sometimes capped at 5 years of service. (This varies. Well placed executives may get years of severance, and store clerks may get none)
A "Stay to the Bitter End" Bonus - Approximately an additional 4 weeks of salary or $10,000 for those who stay until the very last day they are needed.
Immediate release from all restrictions in your employee agreement with regards to working for competitors.
Verification that the conditions of your termination will allow you to collect unemployement.
Find a new job now. Tell the hiring managers that your bonuses will keep you at your current position until the closing date. Don't fret about taking an hour here or there to interview; it's expected. Besides, they're already going to let you go soon. They need you and they're not going to fire you. It's time for you to start thinking about greener pastures.
Later, if they hire you back (and it may happen), offer to do so for a 25% raise, but settle for no less than 10%. If you don't have a new job, don't let them know about it. Your new "consulting" position prevents you from speaking about it.
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
So, what company is this? Anything we should know about??
If you do decide to leave before the year's out, be sure as part of the package you request you get a very large portion of cheese. You never know when it might come in handy.
If the employees had to go to management to draft this retention plan - then management doesn't care about them in the first place.
This is a calculated slash and consolidate move - it's obvious they're trying to fatten the bottom line. No blame there. But you got to take care of yourself - look for another job now... and see if you can time it with the end of your current.
I was able to adjust my start date on a new job so I could finish up a major project in my old job and leave it in good hands. I didn't want to fark my old employeer, nor the good people I worked with, just because I decided the owner was a tool.
The company I work with now thought that it was commendable and appreciated the effort. Probably in hopes I do the same for them given I would be moving on down the road.
Short of it - find work for you, not work for now.
Regardless of the comp package, start networking the hell out of your soon-to-ex coworkers. Get names, phone-numbers, be the keeper of the list, organize pub-nights and get-togethers. When they find work elsewhere (or even start their own business) who are they going to remember and call? You, the organizing gatekeeper that you'll be positioned to be. In these situations, social schmooze power wins.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
They're telling you a year in advance- thats plenty of time to find a new job. They're doing the right thing, don't fuck them over by going in and saying give us this or we leave.
HP recently had severance that I took advantage of. 2 months +2 weeks per year of service, 5 months minimum 14 month maximum. I thought that was quite fair.
As for leaving- if they offer you severance, I'd stay until the end date, but start looking for a job before it ends. If they don't, look immediately. Also, if they offer severance, take a vacation between jobs. Its well worth it.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Estimate how long it will take you to find another job. If you're the optimistic type, double it to get to a real number. Have them cover the difference between your salary and unemployment for that length of time. Have them continue to cover your medical insurance for that length of time. Hopefully you've got other severance coming your way too... just remember that certain severance packages require them to let you go.
Otherwise, look for another job today. They're laying you off, man. There is no fanfare, they're not crying a river. You're not keeping the red stapler. The company's life will go on. Mainstream corporations, even moderate sized ones, can be quite soul less.
On the other hand, if you stick around, you can pick up a whole lot of supplies. Need about a dozen monitors?
The ______ Agenda
Let me describe what happens when you stick around in a doomed office/company/branch/whatever. Morale gets low, standards of professionalism relax. No one will expect anything from you except to show up, maybe occasionally answer a question or reboot a failing host. You'll start coming to work in sweatpants, playing solitaire all day long, taking two hour lunches. You dream up ways to spend your severance package.
Sounds like a lot of IT workers' dream job, right? But the general attitude is not a good one. You can forget about being motivated to find a new job. A couple of months of coming in to play solitaire, and you're barely motivated to get up to take the two hour lunch. The most common topics of conversation are how many days are left and wouldn't it be nice to be the one guy that gets to keep his job. No new projects to add to your resume. If you're lucky, you get to list "decommissioning" as something you did at this job. What an accomplishment. It takes five thoughtless seconds to power down a server running the product of ten years' loving work. If that's what you want out of your final months with your employer, then read no further.
But if you want to use this time postively, here's my advice. Get your resume together and start interviewing ASAP. See if you can get your current employer to give you a paper promotion now - it may help you get a foot in the door at other firms to have a more important-sounding title. Tell any company that makes you an offer about the severance package, to see if they'll match it, or at least give you something as a signing bonus. Even if you don't get the bonus, if you like the new place, go. Now. If the prospects outside look slim, talk to the dreaded East Coast management team. Find out if there are any opportunities for you to go out there. If nothing else, showing initiative in that way may get them to throw you some additional work, or a leadership role in the decommissioning. The key is to stay motivated, stay focused. Delete the games from your PC. If there are people in your group who are going to stay with the company, talk to them, find out what new projects are going on, if there's anything you can do to help.
Above all, don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that because you're on the chopping block, you're not worth anything. That's what all those negative behaviors I mentioned before are all about. "They think I suck, they don't expect anything out of me, so I'm going to suck, and I'm not going to do anything." If you get trapped into that cycle, it may take longer for you to recover than your severance package can carry you. Just don't fall into the trap.
So, to sum up, do what you need to do to stay motivated and enthusiastic. If decommissioning projects are what you love, stay, and be happy about it. Enjoy your severance. But if you need to have new and engaging projects to work on, I would advise you to get out as soon as you possibly can, severance or not.
Irony: 1a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. b. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning. c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See synonyms at wit1. 2a. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain). b. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic. 3. Dramatic irony. 4. Socratic irony.
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
polish the resume. Pass it around to head-hunters. Go on some interviews. Prepare yourself for the worst. If possible dont work without a net. Create a situation where they need you more than you need them. After you've done that, your choice should be quite clear.
Only one company I have worked for gave us a compensation package. They gave us 6 months notice and 3 months severance if we stayed through the last day. They also encouraged us to use company time to look for a new job. Not only did this give us the impression that they were not just hosing us, but it also helped ease the income-shock associated with the extremely unpredictable duration of unemployment. Every single employee (about 12) stayed until the last day.
http://www.google.com/profiles/malachid
Start looking for a full time job tomorrow.
When you find one - tell them that your company has said that on (X) day they will give you what you got above, and if the new company can give you anything to get you to leave earlier.
There is also the incentive that for a cool, new, full time job - you will just not even bother with the above step, and leave right away. That is the risk that the company takes negotiating a low severance package above.
The other thing to realize is Outsourcing from the west coast, and especially California is the wave of the future, it is too expensive, too disaster prone, and to employer unfriendly or a state, Iowa is just too cheap, and if Iowa isn't cheap enough - Bangalore sure is
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
Unless you know for a fact that you are in an area with a skills shortage, never stay to the end. It will always say on your CV "lacked the imagination and skills to do something else", and if a future employer is looking for people with a highly developed sense of loyalty - is that really your kind of employer?
Confession - I have only once failed to jump ship BEFORE the announcement, and I kicked myself for months afterwards because in truth I had known that the writing was on the wall. Wherever you work, you should try and build up the necessary internal networking to get tipped off before anything affecting you is decided. And when someone you trust tells you something, listen. VPs and managers have to preserve confidentiality, but there are ways, and a lot of them are uncomfortable as individuals about what they have to do.
Oh, and another gratuitous piece of advice that will be ignored. One of the smartest things you can do when younger is not to spend up to your income, and certainly not get into debt if you can avoid it. When layoffs and closures happen, you have just got so much more slack than the people who are in debt and desperate, and this will come over at interviews. As a potential employer, would you hire the guy who is clearly in deep shit and desperate, or the one who is clearly in control and managing? Depends on the company, but which kind of company would you want to work for?
Pining for the fjords
I guess that loosing a job is better than havening a job...
right?
I worked for a Tier 1 ISP/webhost. and when they started having rounds of layoffs after the bubble burst, I was round 3 or 4. I was given 3 months' notice, (extended to 4) and because of the length of the time I'd been with the company, offered about 6 months' severance to stay until my RIF date. Not only that, but they paid for us to attend some classes on social networking and resume building, etc. I got the idea they really, really were being generous to us, especially since I'd seen friends at other ISPs just get locked out, or given cardboard boxes and an hour to clean out their desks, etc.
Not to mention that my duties changed substantially once the layoffs started, and people above me were getting laid off first. I was already working most of the time from home, but suddenly I was attached to various consolidation and cleanup projects, and just had teleconferences with the rest of my team around the U.S., so I never had to drive in to the office. Ironically, my personal best work started just before the layoffs, and continued until the end. I ended up getting a better understanding of processes outside my previous departments, too. So it was my most productive, and most instructive, time there. So I left feeling my work really had been appreciated.
I guess it was an ego boost, being laid off. Except for the losing my job part.
C'mon, you have a year to plan either to move with them or find something else. We should all be so lucky.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
I have a similar issue: My workplace is going to close in the next few years, as it is slated for closure on the BRAC (base realignment and closure) list. All operations are moving to another state about 5 hours away. I'm not staying, but then, I'll also be spending the next few years with a decent stipend working on a Ph. D. I'd probably still look for another job if I had no other source of income, though.
You're very lucky you got a year's notice. Take advantage of that to find your new position with lots of time to spare. If you find one before the year's up, leave. They clearly don't care about your future, stop caring about thiers. The only time compensation packages are really appropriate or neccesary is in the case of layoffs without much notice (say, less than 3 months notice). No reasonable compensation package from your company is going to make up for sticking it out to the end. You're much better off using your time wisely to locate a new employer and jumping ship as soon as you find a good one.
I strongly suspect this is the primary reason they gave a year's notice - in hopes that several of the employees will jump ship to new jobs before the year is up and not take the compensation plan for staying until the actual layoff, which saves them some cash.
11*43+456^2
... I've been in this boat, I'd suggest these things if you're serious about keeping the employees until the job is done:
1.) Give them a pay raise for their remaining time - This will help ensure they won't randomly bail for a higher paying job.
2.) Pay out all remaining sickdays, vacation days they have left at end of period at 1.5x normal rate. - This gives them a reason to *NOT* use their vacation/sickdays.
3.) Severance bonus equal to 3 months of pay. - This gives them a "good" ammount of time to look for another job without having to take something that will cut them off from working for you.
4.) Buy them on the job lunch, dinner on a set day reguarly. - It's a good moral booster for people so they know the company cares and is trying.
5.) Give them written recommendations for their next job that is *GLOWING*. - Once the job is done, write a custom, glowing review of them so it's easier for them to get their next job... if anyone calls, tell them how it was, that these guys were the best of the best and stuck it out till the dead last for the benefit of the company and customer and how much you appreciated their dedication.
6.) If possible offer them the ability to move to the new datacenter in a similar or upgraded compacity, with paid move and assistance finding a home/appartment.
Is this a cheap route? No. If you're serious though this is the *right* route. I've had pretty much exactly this shy the offer to move (it was a department closure, we were redundant after a buyout and they were already over staffed.) Everyone of us worked till last day, all of us moved on to better paying jobs, and the all of the things that were done made this possible. Everyone was sad about leaving, it was alot of fun the last few months, even though there was a melloncoly overtone.
Shadus
Note: I'm speaking from the perspective of a developer experienced on both coasts.
I'm a J2EE dev who moved from Seattle to Florida for family reasons.
At first I was a little worried about work since Florida isn't really known for IT. Technologically, it was like going backwards in time about 10 years.
Once my resume hit the market, I got non-stop calls from headhunters. Most of the jobs here are for banks, insurance, and DoD. So, now I'm getting double my previous salary, full (better) benefits, and a much lower cost of living. I'm renting a large lake front house for about the same as my previous apartment.
But, like all things, there is a down side.
Rednecks, everywhere
Good luck finding a bookstore (don't these people read?)
I used to be the dev with upper-middle talent, now I'm the top talent
Mass transit sucks. I used to read while commuting, now that time is lost driving
Everything is a long drive
If you are a developer, and you are willing to move east, ask your company for a 20% raise and moving expenses. Also, update your resume and put it on the market.
Here is what is happening. Your comapany wants to move you because it will save them money. They are planning on canning you after completion. It won't happen. Good talent is so rare on the east coast that you'll be able to stay comfortably.
An example of how hard it is to find good devs here:
My company recently brought in a new girl for "front-end" work. She didn't know HTML (not even the basics), she didn't know how to program in "any" language. I sent her to do an online tutorial, and said to just use notepad and the browser. She came back with a problem dragging the file to the browser window. She was trying to drag "notepad" into the browser. This, for $45/hour ?!?! She managed to last a month before getting moved out. I last heard that she's working as a business analyst at an insurance company.
Being employed on the east coast is not an issue. Whether or not you want to live and work here is.
This is just the opinion of a developer.
IT janitors, whoops, I mean system admins, program managers, etc... YMMV
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
In the end everyone is dead. So far living to 100 is rare, and there are no verified cases of anyone living to 150. (Your religion may list some who have in the past, and other rumors exists). It is unlikely that medical science will make your immortal in your lifetime. You can freeze your body, but why would the next generation unfreeze your body and restore you to life - if they even can?
So you need to keep perspective. Find the right religion, and serve it correctly (assuming one exists), and can end up with a better hearafter. Otherwise you are stuck (depending on the answer to the religious question how you are stuck varies). So use the time you have wisely. Work enough to live, but don't let work rule your life. Find what is more important, and live that.
Well said! If the company isn't showing loyalty to you, why should you show loyalty to them? You'd just be used selfishly. Think of this if you have problems with consciousness when quitting for another job. Compensation from the employer would benefit both, the employee gets some security for the future and the employer can be sure that work is well done until the end.
Let's = Lets
Yeah, right.
If this is Interland, they've been trying to shut down that LA data center since I worked there... 4+ years ago. The guys in that DC were always dicks, too.
First of all, this is called a "retention plan" or "retention bonus" or "retention package." As to the poster who mentioned "standard severance packages," there is NO SUCH thing as a standard severance package. An employer can offer you whatever they want to and call it severance. In this example, your employer is telling you a year in advance so that they do not violate the WARN Act (look it up). My suggestion to you is to start looking now, and to not worry about letting the current employer know you're looking. If they want to keep you, you'll be offered a retention bonus. Having been in this situation before, it was easier for the people who were let go early to get a job than it was for me. Also consider that you want to beat your current co-workers to the punch for any job offers in your region.
Instead of asking for salary increases and bonuses and such during the next 12 months, how about asking them to guarentee that you'll be able to pay the bills in the following 12:
Figure out how much it costs to live at your current standard of living, not counting saving for retirement, vacations, and other luxuries.
Insist that they pay this amount every month for 12 months after termination, less any bonuses or additional compensation they give you in the meantime, and less any income other members of your household are currently providing and less 50% of any income you earn from other sources. The "-50%" is because you DO want some incentive to be employed besides personal satisfaction and skill retention.
Let's say it costs you and your family $60,000 to live. Let's say your wife nets 30K/year. They'll pay you $2500/month after taxes until you get a new job, then $2,500 minus half of your other job's income for a year.
Of course you should also insist that they give you health benefits at the same rate you are paying now for those 12 months, and give you time off to interview, etc.
If fairness is an issue among your coworkers, take the numbers all 8 of you have and make an average and give everyone that average. Yes that will leave a few people who have low costs of living with "extra cash" and a few people with higher costs of living "in the hole" but that's the breaks.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Keep the job! Duh!
The convenience of having a paycheck while you're job hunting outweighs the convenience of scheduling interviews on an empty schedule.
Besides, you now get to tell your boss you're using a vacation day to go job hunting, and not feel embarassed by it!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Since when generalizations like these get modded up?
First, i'll state the obvious to your clueless and idiot self, its your company stupid. If you have incompetent managers that can't hire the right persons, then its fully on them, not the "east coast". I mean, unless you are padding or making up the story, which competent person would hire someone as a programer, and a high salary, without any experience? Hey, it might even fall on you, on all the companies i've worked for, we've had peer interviews of candidates.. bu i digress.
Secondly, you are in a second rate east coast market, hey, come to NY, DC, etc... Generalizing on the "East coast", when so many research centers and universities are here, shows your level of inteligence.
And thirdly, WTF is witht he IT janitors comment? Some of us "IT janitors", have probably more developement experience, and are better qualified than you so call "developers" ( I myself am an Electrical Engineer, and prefer REAL, Systems Administration, Systems engineering work over development because of various reasons... SA/SE work is actually closer to real engineering than development is at this moment in time).. Again, if you work with unqualified people, it really says a lot of your own qualifications my friend... not of a "coast"...
In any case, why am i even bothering with such an idiot. HEH
I have been in simular situation. Like many of the previous posts went thorugh the same thing. Unless you have a huge package and planning on changing careers, it is not worth it.
I don't know whether these people are honorable but they're obviously stupid enough to think that the lesson of InterNIC isn't "geographical redundancy good" but "it's better to be lucky than to be smart and we can count on being lucky". Do you really want to trust them with whether you get needed food, shelter, or medical treatment?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I appears you are right about generalizations being a bad idea.
A common generalization is most people in the north east are pretty thick skinned. Your offense at an old joke shows that some people there are actually very sensitive.
Hmmm, its also interesting how you attack me more than the issues I raised (ahh, refreshing, lovely name calling, mmm, mmm, good).
God knows I would rather be somewhere else.
As for this company, well, I'm not going to defend them. I agree with the opinion of them. When I worked in Seattle, candidates would interview at least 6 people and would only be chosen with a unanimous yes. However, ponder this. The unqualifed person we got spent time working at Bank of America. I've talked to people working at Citibank, State Farm, Blue Cross, Fidelity and other DoD contractors. They are experiencing a similar situation. Thats gotta give some confidence in the bank (sic).
As for my generalization of the job market. Well, I get daily calls for positions in DC, Boston, the triangle in NC, and CT. I would call that a sign of a pretty good job market.
The number of research centers and universities are here, doesn't seem relevant to the issue that companies here are having a hard time finding good people. Your description of your skills and your obvious employment further confirm the point. Now, if you were unemployed and had the same skill set, I'd definitely concede.
Also, I was only really talking about software development positions, my experience, and the experience of those I've met. Granted, I've only been here a year. Maybe the shortage of developers is temporary.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
I can't think of a better story to tell prospective employers after your undying loyalty to the current organization is rewarded by being kicked to the curb. I know when I'm hiring quality staff, thats exactly the sort of response I like to hear when I ask, "So, tell me what you've been doing in your current position...".
Seriously: If you're as worried about employment as you seem to be, you'd best plan to get the hell out pretty quickly, albeit taking your time to find the right position. Waiting for some sweet severance pkg that may or may not materialize may set your career back several years, if only from skill decay and/or the fact that any prospective employer will likely offer significantly less for someone unemployed (aka "desperate") than someone fully employed.
In brief, don't worry about trying to negotiate a severance package. Worry about negotiating a new hire package.
007: "Who are you?"
Pussy: "My name is Pussy Galore."
007: "I must be dreaming..."
My (prior) firm had the same thing happen. Difference was, they DIDN'T tell us - we found out because one employee had a high-level friend who worked in another firm in the same industry, who heard on the golf course about the impending closure FROM A MEMBER OF OUR MANAGEMENT. My firm was planning on waiting until the last minute to tell employees so we wouldn't leave, then just toss us. When the rumor got back, the source had enough credibility that we checked with 'head office' who hemmed, hawed and then (after three days of non-answers) told the truth. I ran like hell. Those who stayed were granted a retention package, and at that point, they were a lot happier - they ended up with six months of 'guaranteed' work plus about 2 months severance - a lot for the industry (accounting).
If management has been honest and told you their plans, give them credit - they are apparently trying to 'do the right thing' by you. Get the team together and pitch management for relocation/severance packages, and include the willingness to stay to the bitter end.
You're getting a better deal than many...
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