Sony's EULA Worse Than Its Rootkit?

jaaron writes "If you think the Sony rootkit is bad, check out the accompanying EULA! From the EFF's summary: 'If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home. ... Sony-BMG can install and use backdoors in the copy protection software or media player to "enforce their rights" against you, at any time, without notice. ... Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling.'"

Comments

Don't pay for CD from these guys

[Anonymous Coward]

By now I really think it's gotten to the point that it's more unethical to give money to a company like this than to download their music without paying. I'm not anti-copyright in general, but the music industry is just so evil these days.

Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys

[ScrewMaster]

Actually, if you look at the history of that industry since the invention of the player piano, it has always been an evil enterprise. One could easily argue that they are a parasitic group riding on the backs of our most creative individuals. And perhaps that parasitism (they would call it "symbiosis") was necessary at one time, I don't know.

The difference between the industry today, and our perception of it in decades past is that modern technology has forced them out into the open. Right there for everyone to see, peer-to-peer lawsuits, corrupt lawmakers, broadcast flags and all. The buying public can begin to understand the nature of the organizations that provide our entertainment, if such knowledge is considered important. I think it is, and obviously you do, but given that sales of CDs and DVDs are on the rise, even now, I tend think that most people simply do not. But from Disney to the RIAA to the MPAA to Sony, we have one of the most corrupt, dissembling groups of corporate thugs in existence anywhere. Well, perhaps they're overshadowed by the oil companies ... hard to say which is more evil. But fortunately I can choose where to spend my entertainment dollars: unfortunately I have to buy gas to get to work.

Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys

[uncoveror]

Just boycotting Sony's music products isn't enough to fix this. We need to boycott every Sony product, even Playstation. Any other company that tries these tricks also needs to be smacked down by losing their customers. Continuing to buy things from such racketeers only encourages them to keep up the bad work.

Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys

[Anonymous Coward]

However, if it's any consolation to you ...

I don't need consolation. Frankly, I don't care what you do. My point was that if you really wanted to you could avoid buying gas if you wanted to. I'm not being critical of you for burning gas.

You seem to agree that you could avoid buying gas if you wanted to, but the costs outweigh the benefits, and so you continue to buy gas. So it is not so much that you can't avoid buying gas as it doesn't make sense for at the present time.

I didn't plan my situation. I'm just lucky that I don't need gas. I think that if you really wanted to you could keep from buying gas.

I meet a lot of people who say the same as you, that they need to buy gas, and I think people need to realize that they don't need gas. They choose to buy gas because it makes sense. But if it's stuck in one's head that buying gas is necessary, they stop weighing the cost/benefit of gas -- and that is a dangerous situation. And by cost/benefit I don't just mean monetary, there may be environmental/pride/ethical concerns as well.

Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys

[Esion Modnar]

modern technology has forced them out into the open

If it weren't for sites like this and others, and independent researchers who expose these shennanigans, their unethical behavior would go largely unremarked.

Even as it is, only the few in the world who actually keep up with stuff like this, know anything about it. Sure, CNN has a story on their website, buried deep, but there has been no mention on their headline news channel. (But we can always find out how long that blonde chick has been missing.)

These people are allowing their journalistic principles (as if they had any) be corrupted by the business interests of their corporate masters. Sure, this is nothing new. But I should would love to see this story spread wide enough so that 95% of the people in the US know about it.

Finally!

[Gothic_Walrus]

The "I'm going to pirate because the record companies are fucking us over" excuse actually holds water!

I'm just not going to pay $15 for the right to listen to music in a fixed order in a certain CD player on the second Tuesday of each month between five and eight PM. The things Sony is demanding go against the concept of fair use...and I get the feeling that thi story could do just as much damage as the rootkit one did, if not more.

Re:Finally!

[hackstraw]

I'm just not going to pay $15 for the right to listen to music in a fixed order in a certain CD player on the second Tuesday of each month between five and eight PM. The things Sony is demanding go against the concept of fair use...and I get the feeling that thi story could do just as much damage as the rootkit one did, if not more.

Ah, but we all now respect Sony's intellectual rights now, right?

Fuck these people and their "intellectual" property. Fuck them right in the ear while I "break the law" and smoke pot in my house.

I've found that its easier to think of large groups of people as one person. It seems to make sense, like a country or a corporation. When countries fight, bicker, or have issues or get along, its just like individuals. The same goes for a corporation.

If I were to know somebody that sold me a car, I would think they were paranoid and psychotic if they came over and inspected if I were changing the oil regularly and made sure I didn't take the american brand name emblems off of it and rice it up with some V-TEC stickers. Lord fucking forgive me if I wreck the car, it gets stolen, or I sell the thing and buy another one.

Instead of being psychotic you stupid rich fucking music pimps, and either get out of the way because your doing a shitty job, or sell us a product that we want.

Apple is close with iPods and iTunes. The downside is that 1) you can only really "properly" get your music from them 2) its a hack at best if you want to do something stupid like listen to your music in your car or home stereo instead of earphones.

We don't want CDs anymore. Don't you realize that? People throw away the plastic cases that break and take up too much room. They trow them in a CD book, and over time they get scratched because the technology sucks for portability and convenience. Its next to impossible to switch and hear one song from another CD while you are driving in the car, and then listen to another CD. CD changers hold what? Maybe 10 CDs. Whoopty shit.

We want more music at a reasonable price that is convenient and portable to listen to.

I repeat.

We want more music at a reasonable price that is convenient and portable to listen to.

We don't want stuff that you have to listen to on one piece of equipment (DRMed to hell). We don't want early 80's shiny fragile disks that hold about 45 minutes to an hour of music provided that every song is worth listening to.

People on average are not unreasonable. Or at least not like you're trying to be.

Proprietary things like game cartridges are OK, because they work, and its a thing. My large stereo speakers are OK at my house, but suck in my car, or if I'm walking down the street. Your 45 minute at best CD is barely acceptable in a car, barely acceptable when walking, and barely acceptable at home.

We want playlists, smart shuffling, portability, variety, and are willing to pay for it.

I mean, what does this stupid company Sony do besides fuck around with music recordings and DRM and rootkits? Oh, I've heard they make electronics for the home, the car, portable audio, and even computers. In fact at one time the word Walkman (didn't even get caught by my spell checker) was as big as the word iPod. In fact, that was about the time the CD came out. If you had your shit together and made electronics to satisfy our needs, you could give the music away and still make money. What the fuck have you done differently since 1982 Sony? Times have changed. People are very willing to pay money for convenience and entertainment. We don't go around stealing shit at every chance we get.

So finally, fuck you and your DRM, your EULAs, proprietary redundant formats, and everything else.

The shit you do is stupid, and we simply are demonstrating this fact by the way we spend our money on other goods and services.

I never, ever though that when I was a kid who liked the songs I heard on the radio and the albums that I had at

Re:Rootkit worse

[Kjella]

EULA's are just things nobody reads or pays any attention to that basically say the company isn't responsible for anything but that hasn't stopped them from being sued in the past so who cares about it.

For now. In the not so distant future the DRM will basicly stop you from doing anything at all and when you complain "it's in the EULA and has been there for 10 years, our hardware is simply enforcing the agreement". Once they have the means to back up all the ludicrous terms, you won't be ignoring it and you won't be laughing.

Re:SONY's modest proposal

[penix1]

"It's time to take SONY to the woodshed. Don't purchase anything with any SONY signature (this may require a little research, SONY makes ccd's for lots of digital cameras)."

No that never works, it is time for people to get off their duff and take Sony to court. Strangly enough for copyright violation! Title 17 allows for archival and educational study use (things commonly known as "fair use"). By instituting DRM in this fashion they have deprived us of those rights. For added measure include a charge of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

But of course we know that none of that will happen. The media lobbies are too powerful. Let's face it, we have the best legislature money can buy.

B.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

You are wrong, if someone steals your CD you must delete the copy. If you read the statement you will notice it uses OR, not AND like you seem to think. The use of OR actually makes that one statement two seperate ones. The statement "In the event that you no longer possess or have the right under such license to use the original CD product." can be rewritten as two seperate statements, "In the event that you no longer possess the original CD product." and "In the event that you no longer have the right under such license to use the original CD product." If the CD is stolen you no longer possess the original CD product therefore that clause is triggered.

Re:Sony's engineering arm?

[NCraig]

You are, I assume, referring to the same "Japanese" electronics arm that is behind Blu-ray DRM?

Judging by the tricks Sony is developing for consumer electronics, I'd assume their "engineering-led" arm is saying "Hell yeah, BMG, lead the way!"

Ironic but true..

[canuck57]

By now I really think it's gotten to the point that it's more unethical to give money to a company like this than to download their music without paying.

It is ironic but true that your computer is now safer to download pirate copys of entertainment than to buy the authentic thing. WTF was Sony/BMG thinking? Most of us are honest!!

Do keep in mind this tech can also be delivered on DVDs. Although I don't believe it has been done to the masses yet, there is no reason why it couldn't be on a DVD.

And I for one would have never thought to read the EULA verbose legal microprint to see if it would rootkit my PC. Fortunately I never put the BMG ones I have in my PC.

Which makes me think this industry just shot itself in the foot.

Re:Ironic but true..

[chronicon]

It is ironic but true that your computer is now safer to download pirate copys of entertainment than to buy the authentic thing. WTF was Sony/BMG thinking? Most of us are honest!!

That is such a solid point. The whole issue is out of control. What if Sony-BMG is allowed to get away with this? What kind of precedent does it set? Will we now have to worry about every release from every media company that may follow the Sony model and employ their own variant of spy/malware-type Digital Restriction software on their CD or DVD?

An EULA for CD audio?! When I first read this stuff I could NOT believe what I was seeing! We saw the writing on the wall with CueCat (remember that nonsense?). Do we just get to expect that everything we buy will now include "instructions" on what we can & cannot do with the things that we purchase? This goes beyond killing innovation--heck, instead of selling us merchandise it seems as if we're just paying a leasing fee: the manufacturer still owns the product and gets to tell us how we can use it. Licensed audio CDs, subscription software. I think it is only the beginning. Can't wait until I am forced to buy only certain brands of gasoline for my car based on the EULA I signed when I purchase my next vehicle...

This all ties in with the honesty factor you mention. Sony (and others) simply use piracy as an excuse for this kind of awful behavior on their part. Please don't swap non-redistributable copyrighted files, if you do, you're ruining it for the rest of us!

As you can see from the links, I've been stewing over these disturbing trends for days. Years actually. Any excuse to control the consumer seems to be grabbed up immediately by the powers that be...

Re:SONY's modest proposal

[Ahnteis]

What if I have autoplay turned off and I "abuse" the "CD" by treating it as a normal CD? The EULA never shows up and so I never agree to it.

What about the person who uses a "normal" CD player? They certainly aren't going to be reading anything.

(Unless of course this is one of those "by opening this package you agree to the EULA inside" things which I doubt could be enforced.)

Oh, for Crying Out Loud

[n6kuy]

> ... flaws in Digital Rights Management schemes;

DRM stands for Digital Restriction Mechanism!

Rights are inherent. They don't need to be "managed".

Re:Nope - you added an extra logical negation

[KarmaMB84]

Actually, you distributed the NOT across the logical operations incorrectly. The original statement would've been ( !user.hasCD || !user.hasRightToMusic() ) to combine them, you would use DeMorgan's and come out with ( !(user.hasCD() && user.hasRightToMusic()) ) which says that unless you have the CD and have the right to the music, you must delete the digital copies. If someone steals the disc, they don't have the right to the music and would be in violation of the EULA if they made digital copies AND the original owner would have to delete their digital copies because they'd be in violation without the physical disc. This is probably exactly what Sony intended. If they caught you with digital copies and you don't have the original media, they could sue you for either pirating (you stole it) or violating the EULA (you were robbed and failed to delete).

Getting away from making things

[HangingChad]

When our society started getting away from making things with intrinsic value and started depending on brain share products for revenue growth this was bound to happen. Since the cost of making copies of a digital work is, essentially, zero, companies trying to squeeze more revenue out of the same entertainment products had only one place to try and mine for extra income. I don't blame them for trying to go after that pool, but do blame them for the tactics they employed.

I think the shocker for most people is waking up to find how much the playing field has been tilted in favor of the corporation against the individual. All the laws are on their side, Congress has played along with whatever draconian measures they want to dump on common people including pulling the FBI away from terror investigations to go after copyright violators, and instead of throwing out click-through EULA's the courts have tended to back them up. There is no inherent fairness in your relationship with service providers anymore, it's an uphill battle for equity. That's not limited to the entertainment industry, it's an issue here because Sony went far enough over the line. But this same unfairness is woven through all our service provider relationships.

I am doing something besides complaining. I'm working with the leader or our state house of representatives on a couple initiatives to even out the playing field a little. One is setting a higher standard for binding arbitration. The poster child I'm using for that one is car dealers trying to skirt consumer protection laws by legislating via contract, but that would also impact click-through EULA's. The other is making it more difficult to change the state venue of laws for products and services sold and delivered in this state. That got a surprisingly warm, almost enthusiastic, reception. My presentation line was asking why we were letting North Dakota dictate how we were going to do business. That provoked the legislative equivalent of a "Hell, yeah!" But there are legal issues associated with that one I didn't know about. It's not going to be as easy to change. The good news is I didn't get laughed at.

What surprises me is companies taking a hard line with their customers. That just seems like such a no-win proposition, even for a large, diverse company like Sony. You're looking at DVD players and like the Panasonic and Sony. What's going to make the difference? You think back on this incident and buy the Panasonic. You're making a choice between a Sony and Canon video camera, even though Sony makes the CCD's for many of the Canon models, you might go with the other brand. This small segment of that giant company taints everything they do. It can't be worth it.

Re:Rootkit worse

[Dolda2000]

Once they have the means to back up all the ludicrous terms, you won't be ignoring it and you won't be laughing.

And the worst thing about it is the fact that it's only normal, legal customers that won't be laughing. The real pirates will still be able to crack the DRM one way or another and not be put off even the slightest. Remember, it only takes a single rip off of a DRM:d media, and the content is completely loose. It's only the legal people that get screwed, when they can't burn a collection CD for the car stereo or rip it to their MP3 players.

Re:SONY's modest proposal

[nasor]

I'm afraid you're mistaken about this. Title 17 doesn't grant you an inalienable right to fair use; it merely states that it isn't a violation of copyright law for you to engage in fair use. Sony isn't under any obligation to make it easy, or even possible, for you to engage in fair use because of Title 17. They simply can't take you to court over it if you manage to.