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OpenOffice.Org in a Corporate Environment?
robpoe asks: "I've been working on a rollout plan for OpenOffice.org 2.0 for a medium sized network. This network runs a number of different MS Office versions, and we absolutely must retain the Microsoft Office 97/2000/2002 file formats (for interoperability with the public and other entities). Getting our versions of Office to 2003 is $65k+, so we're looking closely at OOo. The problem is, since OOo keeps track of changes per user, and we have users that move around (and no, Roaming Profiles are not an option for us), and you cannot expect a user to change those preferences on every computer they log in to. Let's hear some great deployment plans for keeping the default file type, and even general rollout plans. How are you doing it?"
"It seems that nobody has done this (or documented it) that I've found. Let's see if we can get a good thing going by documenting a good, easy to manage rollout plan. Oh, and the default for saving files has to remain in Office 97/2k/xp format.
What are you using to deploy OOo automatically on your network. Assume that we have capability of login script (batch files / registry changes), but no SMS/ZenWorks/etc.
What are you using to deploy OOo automatically on your network. Assume that we have capability of login script (batch files / registry changes), but no SMS/ZenWorks/etc.
Elementary, Watson.
Once a user logs on, a logon script mounts his own personal "network drive" from a central file server.
Just configure OpenOffice so that OpenOffice will read (and write) the OO configuration from that personal "network drive".
Yes, a user could still mess up his configuration, but that would only affect himself, not others.
Dedicated Linux servers (root access) $45 p.M.
Why not just keep Office 2000/XP?
While this doesn't address your question, you mention the necessity of using MS office files. Be absolutely sure you are aware of the limitations of importing/exporting MS office documents. Contrary to what a lot of slashdotters imply, the document compatibility is only so-so when working with complex Word and Powerpoint files, which forced me back away from OO.org. Don't get me wrong - I don't like MS Office myself. But when forced to work with MS Office files, it's incredibly difficult to use any other tool.
I imagine it can't be too difficult to build your own distro of OOo that saves in MS Office format by default.
Make an OpenOffice.org BASIC macro that sets the configuration settings. Put the macro in an empty document, and make it autoopen that document on startup only once (also code the document so it closes automatically once it's done).
Karma: Excellent (fuck, even in the future moderation doesn't work!)
Since you're going to make a fairly large paradigm shift anyway, why not go all the way and centrally host it? Running it over your favorite remote protocol might work fine, it wont bloat or slow down the clients, you can insta-upgrade people to new versions, and the roaming profile requirement evaporates.
If people save to some network share, and their PCs can access that, then there's no problem. Map some printers back to local clients (depends on how you do the remote session, might be LPD, share, or LPT redirect), and people might not ever know they're NOT on the local machine.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
For $65k you should be able to bargain with MSFT somehow. Academia does it by department which should be far less than what you pay... and it is department negoiated, not University wide. In other news, expect a slashdot article in a month stating that "I got fired for installing OO 2.0 on our corp. network".
MS Office doesn't even work with highly complex objects and docs... even between versions or across different computers.
Via group policy you can redirect the users' application data folder to a drive on a file server. Assuming Open Office saves the user configuration in the %user name%\Application Data folder, it should work.
Of course, if you don't already have enough space on your servers; you've got another fight on your hands.
Good luck!
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
We are a much smaller company - at only $8m a year in sales, but here's how we do it:
.xls or .doc for your files.
12-15 users all log into a central server running Fedora Core 3 using thin clients. We currently use the excellent LTSP (www.ltsp.org) packages to accomplish this. Through experience we have found that a Pentium 4 server with about 2 gigs of RAM can comfortably handle up to 15 users or so, more than that and the load gets a bit too heavy. The programs that eat up the most memory and CPU cycles are Firefox, Evolution, Open Office, and Adobe Acrobat. We do allow streaming radio with xmms, because it doesn't eat up too much bandwidth or memory, and our users like it. The desktop clients themselves are old Pentium II boxes with 64mb of ram, no hard drives, and no cd-roms.
All our sales reps use OpenOffice every day to type up their quotes, fax cover sheets, etc. My secretary uses OpenOffice Calc to do spreadsheet work for our government contracts. It's easy to set all your clients to default to MS file formats - go into the File > Save settings and set them to always use
You don't need to use thin clients, however, to use Open Office. We just went the thin client route because it was inexpensive and easy to do with existing hardware. We are planning to upgrade soon so that each user has their own desktop machine running local apps, but still mounting the home directories on the server.
I suppose if it can be done with 15 computers running linux, you could also do it with your Windows boxes. Just make sure they all have the same OO settings, and that they are all set to save in the proper file formats before your users even get a chance to work with it. OO works almost like MS Office - but be prepared for lots of complaining from users who will say "But Microsoft Office didn't work this way" . . .
I'm far from an expert, but I've been using OO.o for over two years now.
My first tip is at home or for basic users, you can go into
Tools
Options
Java
Disable the Java, and your startup time is almost certainly going to improve.
[Another Slashdotter showed me this trick, and it apparently disables macros or something I don't use much if ever.]
I install OO.o on a computer, and log into the profile that will run it, hit enter a few times to accept the agreement, and say I've already registered then proceed. This loads the quickstarter into the Startup, and if MS Antispyware is running it might even ask if you want it to run every time.
Since I image computers and roll out a standard image when a machine needs redoing, I don't worry about standard config settings yet. Most machines I put it on don't have Word, so I set OO to automatically open Word files, when I install it.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Be careful about compatibility. The MS Office compatibility in OpenOffice is not all it's cracked up to be - even things like bullets and headings change fonts and spacings during conversions. IMHO it's better for you to work in native formats and send PDF files around.
Why would anyone want to use a text editor that is not vi?
They only solve this problem for EVERY app on your network.
You're basically asking for the features of Roaming Profiles without having to actually implement them.
Consider biting the bullet and spending the money. $65k, depending on where you're located, could be much cheaper then the amount of money you'll have to spend on supporting Open Office. Microsoft Sharepoint allows people to easily move between computers, yet still have access to documents in a central repository.
No, I will not work for your startup
http://www.google.ca/search?q=hosted+desktop+vmwar e
Why not just keep Office 2000/XP?
This is a valid question that shouldn't have been modded as flamebait. Sure, its an unpopular question considering the /. crowd but, still
valid.
The first option that is usually overlooked in IT is, "Do Nothing". If any software product is meeting a businesses needs then why replace it without a good enough reason. Will the benefits of switching form product A to product C outweigh the cost.
I love new stuff as much as the next guy but, if a product works, even one made by M$, then asking if your company should continue to use it is a question any IT Pro should ask.
There plenty of good reasons to switch to OOo but, don't do it just because it's not a M$ product.
[Gets off soap box]
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
Why don't you spend 35K on someone to implement all the OOo you can stand.
You are about to give someone a piece of your mind, something which you can ill afford...
Despite what the parent says, you DO NOT NEED TO PUT THIS ON A THUMBDRIVE! All it really equates to is a fully preconfigured and compartimentalized "install" of OOo. Need to update it? No worries, roll out a new version (or a diff) of the changed files. Everything is housed under the one directory.
I use the portable version of FireFox and Thunderbird for myself and the inlaws because you can always guarentee that you've got all of the config files and user data (bookmarks and emails in their cases) under the one folder, so backups and updates are 100x easier (least for me). YMMV, but it's worht a look!!
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
No. Lets say we mount the users' home drive as drive letter H. You can do this with windows policies or a login script. No touching workstations. Then we configure the base install of OO.org to look in H:\ooo-settings\ for all it's config data.
Boom! Unique settings for each user without roaming profiles
You just want to change the view to "Web Layout." You can do that either by checking it, or by unchecking "Print View."
Put identity in the browser.
Especially the really heavy users of Excel? The ones who build "models"? Don't tell them, but all that "macro" stuff they build? It's essentially a furball of VB. Furball? Yes, because it's been written by somebody who doesn't know how to program. They just keep whacking at it until it works.
And guess what? It doesn't work in OpenOffice.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Assuming a windows environment you would use offline files, that's normally how people sync with network drives.
I'm probably crazy but, I'm thinking it's kind of a "convince me" kind of post rather than a "solve my problem."
Unless someone WAY at the top of the organization drives this, advocating the move is more likely to make you look bad. The first hiccup and the brown-stuff rolls downhill to your door. Present the facts and be done.
If $65K really is an intollerably large chunk of change, then I don't really understand why there's even a question.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
You must edit the OOo registry as shown here: http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?p=10 5239
Here's a thought:
Pay someone else to do it. You're saving $65k, right? Give a (small) portion of that cash to someone familiar with OOo, and have them code the changes that you're after.
Just because it's free software doesn't mean that it's afraid of money. Go ahead and buy the features you need.
Kid-proof tablet..
Are you nuts? Do you really think you're going to get a whole organization to run in that fashion? Do you think end users are going to keep up with thumb drives and live CDs?
I'm not going to belittle you, but that has to be the least feasible idea that I've ever run across as a suggestion for something like this. If the poster really wanted to do it properly, they'd implement roaming profiles, or at the very least, a mounted network share that synchronized at logout. If that was configured correctly, the operation of such a setup would be transparent to any program that accesses files from those directories.
I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
1. install OO in workstations
2. buy:
* big whiteboard - $35
* whiteboard marker - $5
3. then write the instructions on the white board on how to configure OO
total expenses: $40
If you're at a customer site with your own (normal) laptop then you already have the appropriate settings, unless it's your first use of the laptop.
Perhaps for those folks that roam natively (CEOs, sales folks, etc.) the thumb drive solution may work well. For everyone else, it's a way to carry porn home from your super-fast work connection, and something else to lose or break.
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Open Office 2.0/StarOffice8 do not make it easy to configure defaults. The first time any user opens the program on a given computer they are greeted with a EULA, and series of configuration screens. File save formats will default to OpenDoc. One possible solution is to use scripting to copy the setup.xcu file from a fully configured user to the profile of each user. This approach turns out to be rather clumsy. A solution that works involves modifying the installation files so that OO2/StarOffice8 sets up and configures each user with the desired defaults.
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.cab files in the distribution. Doing so will eliminate the need for a post-installation script.
.
I posted one possible solution to the OpenOffice.org forum on November 9th. Link here:
http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.
The following is for Windows System admins who want to maintain their sanity while transitioning users from MS Office to OpenOffice2 or StarOffice8. The idea is to introduce OO/Star without requiring an immediate switch to a new document format and to allow users to begin using OO2 or StarOffice8 without having to accept a license agreement and answer questions they may not know how to answer.
Depending whether you are using StarOffice8 or OpenOffice.org 2.0 - Do the following on workstation after a a fresh installation of OO2 or StarOffice8::
Add these lines to "C:\Program Files\Sun\StarOffice 8\share\registry\data\org\openoffice\Setup.xcu" at line 38:
((OR))
Add these lines to "C:\Program Files\OpenOffice.org 2.0\share\registry\data\org\openoffice\Setup.xcu" at line 38:
<prop oor:name="LicenseAcceptDate" oor:type="xs:string">
<value>2005-11-05T18:30:11
</prop>
<prop oor:name="FirstStartWizardCompleted" oor:type="xs:boolean">
<value>true</value>
</pr
In C:\Program Files\Sun\StarOffice 8\share\registry\modules\org\openoffice\Setup
((
In C:\Program Files\OpenOffice.org 2.0\share\registry\modules\org\openoffice\Setup
Locate file: Setup-calc.xcu
Replace " calc8" with "MS Excel 97"
Locate file: Setup-impress.xcu
Replace " impress8" with " MS PowerPoint 97"
Locate file: Setup-writer.xcu
Replace "writerglobal8" with " MS Word 97" **see note below**
Replace "writer8" with " MS Word 97"
After this is done, I suggest storing the modified files with the OO/StarOffice8
installation (CD, Network share etc.). Write a post-installation batch file
to replace these files on target computers immediately after installation.
You may want to change out the respective files in the installation
The result is that all users of the target computer (new and existing) will
not be prompted for user information on first use and will have the
default file format set for compatibility with Microsoft Office 97/2000/XP.
(This does not prevent the user from changing the default file save format
any time she chooses)
Then go forth - install and evangelize!
Sell your users on the fact that OO/StarOffice8 is an *upgrade* from MS office.
After about a year, go back and switch to OpenDoc and the battle is won.
**note**
I still have lingering questions about changing the ext.GlobalDocument
ooSetupFactoryDefaultFilter from "writerglobal8" to "MS Word 97.
It would be good for someone to test this to see if it is the right
thing to do.
So the trick is this: when you edit a .DOC file with OOo, convert it to the OOo format (.sxw) as soon as you start. Make sure the format is OK. Keep the file in .sxw format inside the company.
When you need to interface with the outside world, publish the .DOC by saving in this format if needed. If you don't need outside people to actually edit the document, export it from OOo as a PDF, which is read-only, and publish the PDF instead of the DOC.
And remember to edit only the .sxw file.
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
Silent installs are easy with OpenOffice:
msiexec /qb /i openofficeorg<version>.msi
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
It probably depends on the level of dependancy on 'advanced' features of MS Office... most companies I think have much less dependancy than they might think. For us, we simply phased OO in. 100% of the desktops had OO installed. 98% had Office uninstalled. Sure we could have left existing Office installs intact indefinately, but by standardizing we ensured that internally everyone was on the same version of OO. (getting rid of the myriad of various office version conflicts and also ensuring there wasn't any silliness where users with Office refused to use OO and users with OO felt like second class citizens or some other nonsense. For all internal documents we use OO. People adapted pretty quick. A few of our internal documents had issues, We cleaned them up, and there hasn't been an issue in months. We do get significant inbound correspondance in Excel/Word and even PP, but these are simple documents that OO handles flawlessly. And even if there were the odd formatting hiccup it wouldn't matter, we're not 'publishing' them, just getting information from them. (Purchase Orders, reports, etc). For outbound correspondance where we might want to send someone a word or excel document... we just don't... we settled on PDF a long time ago. Our pdf requirements are simple and easily met by free pdf creation software (ie not Acrobat). We do not require our customers have proprietary software. This has worked very well for us. Very occasionally we *are* required to deal with a large complex MS office file from a customer that OO just chokes on. No biggie, we have a couple units with MS Office on them, for just that purpose. So we only need 2 licenses of MS Office vs 150. Most of the use they see is for 'powerpoint' crap that vendors will send as 'training materials'... we just blast these through one of the "MS office" stations into pdf and distribute the pdf version. (Alternatively we could install the free powerpoint viewer from MS, but I don't see an advantage to that. Overall, for us, stability (by getting rid of the multiple versions of MS Office) has actually improved. Occasionally
No, the parent post is right. I've had some very bad experiences with inconsistent Word rendering of long complex documents too. You can close a document and immediately reopen it on the same machine and it would be messed up.
The only reliable and feasible answer I've found is to stick to simple layout when I'm using word processing program. If you want to get fancy, you should use a page layout program.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I use Openoffice 2.0 on my computer and be advised that I faced serious compatibility issues when editing certain Microsoft Word (Office XP) files in Openoffice writer.
These files were edited using the "Track changes" option in MS Office, that allows you to automatically mark changes that you have made to the file. Openoffice simply does not understand such a file and loads it without the accompanying change tracking information.
Admiteddly, I liked OpenOffice at first and thought that MS Office could finally be replaced. However, several experiences (problems with huge loading time, slowing down the PC, OpenDocument format not popular etc.), including the above mentioned one, have forced me back to MS Office, and my personal conclusion is that MS Office has a lot more features and is much better as a regular word processing app. I hate paying Microsoft, but in this case, they take the cake. I'll have to wait for Oo3.
PS : The only OO features that I noticed MS does not have, are the ability to render equations and make PDFs. However, MS Office + MathType + Adobe Acrobat Prof./any free PDF renderer can take care of that.
Essentia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
It's a 130 user government entity (county level). We have 1.5 people administrating it.
/w the machine.
(one 40 hour per week and 1 20 hour per week).
The network is Novell/Email is Groupwise/Desktops are a mix of 98, 2K and XP.
Existing licenses were purchased
$65k for an office upgrade isn't in the cards, when we're having trouble getting $ budgeted for things we REALLY need, much less upgrading Office.
We're doing mostly real plain jane documents, so complexity is not really an issue.
= Grow a brain...
It may not address your specific problem so much, but still be of interest for you:
The Citiy of Vienna is currently making a partial "soft" shift to OSS on the workplace, using a selfdeveloped debian-based distribution called Wienux (Wien is the german name for Vienna) that also includes Open Office.
Open Office is also beeing used on workplaces still using Windows and users are encouraged - but not forced - to switch to OO.
See more at: http://www.wien.gv.at/ma14/oss.html.
It's mostly German, but some of the Information is available in English too.
Have to agree, I prefer pdf or html where I know I have software that can render it. I used to have an old version of word "for emergencies" but over time I noticed that corporate docs always seem to be sent in one of the latest versions rather than the company using a lowest common denominator .doc format.
Increasingly I use OpenOffice to open .doc files - odd formatting quirks aside at least it means I can read information - if anyone wants to guarantee a certain look and feel then pdf is the only viable option imho.
For someone who wants ot perform a silent install using msiexec they should use the /qn switch not /qb /q n|b|r|f Sets the UI level.
q , qn - No UI.
qb - Basic UI.
qr - Reduced UI.
"I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
The original poster is considering using OO to save money. The cost of thumb dries (even in bulk) will be $15/piece. Formatting, distribution, training and replacing lost drives will add another $20 to $30 per user. Add in the cost of a couple of snapped off USB ports when someone whacks the PC with the thumb drive in it, and you're pretty close to the cost of just buying office.
He said live distribution, as in: on the thumb drive. Additionally, thumb drives are very easy to keep up with. Tell them to attach it to their key chain. It won't go anywhere then.
Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
And a reflection of mine as well. I reckon about 70-80% of the Excel spreadsheets I see are purely documentation--without a single formula containing more than a single number or date. I recently received directions to a hotel in a spreadsheet! There are those for whom Excel is the right tool, but most can do all their spreadsheeting in any spreadsheet program at all.
Don't forget to make it hidden!
We don't want users seeing a directory and saying: "I don't use that! DELETE! Hey, why doesn't openoffice work?"
... and then users will start leaving their keys attatched to the USB ports along with their thumb drives.
// Dumps core here
But web view loses all concept of pagination -- it's just an endless roll of paper. The Word Normal view really is an excellent format for drafting because it makes the information (like page breaks) visible without slowing things down.
There's a bug open for OOo to add normal view, and there's been a lot of noise recently on it, but since the bug has been there a couple of years and OOo 2.0 still hasn't implemented it, I'm not sure if we'll ever see a normal view. Which is a shame.
when their car is stolen they'll soon learn ;)
which is totally what she said
I created a Kixtart Net install script to rollout OpenOffice.org 2.0 - The requirements are simply a Domain Admin Account and the ability to access the Default Administrative Shares that Windows automatically creates.
You can Download it at
http://www.pcc-services.com/kixtart/scripts.html
For the default saving into Office filetypes - All of the user settings are saved in XML files and you can edit these files before you roll-out OpenOffice.org. To do this simply adjust the settings on a separate machine, find out what file was modified to see what you need to change in the default installation. For instance I created a menu item for my script to add a "From Gallery" option to the "Insert - Picture" Menu.
With the USB keys, I can see loads of broken USB ports in an entire organization as people plug and unplug those guys daily. Not only that, but many organizations have banned USB keys because of concerns such as industrial espionage. And considering the price of one needed to hold a decent live distro, that's not something I, were I an IT manager, would even consider handing out to everyone in an org.
I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
Just run the entire thing off of a thumb drive or live distribution that they can use anywhere they go that mounts your netdrive ;)
Are you nuts? Do you really think you're going to get a whole organization to run in that fashion? Do you think end users are going to keep up with thumb drives and live CDs?
More to the point, if the network security policy of the client organisation bans the use of "thumb" drives etc. you're stuffed. (As several of my client companies do. I often carry a hand-held computer with a serial cable and a terminal emulator because it's more reliable than floppies these days.)
A good reason for doing this is to ensure that any data entering/ leaving the network goes through "sheepdip" computers. Another good reason is to stop the cow-orkers from downloading stuff on the work's internet charges and taking it home. Plenty of good reasons for doing it - see "diskless workstation" in the Jargon File.
Where did I put that copy of Petter's NT electronic crowbar http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/ ? Oh, it's in my briefcase where it should be.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"