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Hayabusa Probe Fails Landing Attempt

Posted by Zonk on from the so-close dept.

wschalle writes "Yesterday, at 3:46 PM EST the probe successfully dropped a small object onto the asteroid as a touchdown target. JAXA then apparently lost control of the probe for 3 hours. The probe went to an auto-pilot mode during the communications failure, collecting data about its flight and saving it for later transmission. The probe's exact location is unknown, but it is estimated to be between 10 and 100 kilometers from the asteroid at this time. The mission has been troubled by repeated failures, including the loss of a small robotic lander, and a gyroscope failure that was later repaired."

23 of 86 comments (clear)

  1. Close. by Chickenofbristol55 · · Score: 4, Funny
    but it is estimated to be between 10 and 100 kilometers from the asteroid at this time.

    That's kind of like that epidemiologist saying "the deaths from the bird flu could range from 5 to 150 million"

    The point is we have no idea. It's easier that way, trust me.

    --
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  2. JAXA vs AJAX by middlemen · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hey, is it me, or did I just think that Zonk made a typing error and wrote JAXA instead of AJAX....!! ??
    Or maybe too many AJAX stories have clouded my judgement :)

  3. I think that 'care factor = 0'.... by demondawn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...really underscores people's interest in the space program in the United States nowadays. It seems that because Japan is interested in doing -science-, rather than flag-waving, it's not nearly as glamorous. Of course, the same could be said of the U.S. Space Program. George W. Bush said he wants us to go to the Moon again. I haven't heard anything about science in his statement on the topic; merely flag-waving.
    Now don't get me wrong, patriotism is a great thing. I think there are many applications that could benefit any nation that goes into space, and I applaud the Japanese for undertaking such an ambitious project (which, if you read TFA, may still succeed!)

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    1. Re:I think that 'care factor = 0'.... by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I haven't heard anything about science in his statement on the topic; merely flag-waving.

      I have, but not from GW, who isn't a scientist anyway. Although Steven Hawking would disagree about going to Mars (or the moon), there is some logic to going back to the moon, if we ever expect to do hard core space exploration. We will need a place to launch from, and the moon fits the ticket. It is close enough that we can supply it and rescue from it (remember, we will have many more space crafts at that time). It is also close enough that we can more afford to have crews there. Also, it is easier to capture people's imaginations (and tax dollars) about a station on the moon, especially if it can be seen with a telescope.

      It has 1/6th of the earth's gravity, so it will be easier to launch from, and there may be enough raw materials on the moon to use for fuel to begin with, reducing the amount of fuel we have to send to start with. It is the closest and safest place to test theories about space travel, which is not a safe business to begin with. There *IS* commercial potential as well. If commercial space travel seems far fetched, ask Burt Rutan of Scaled Composites, or Sir Richard Branson, the owner of Virgin Galactic, who is investing heavily in the concept of commercial space travel.

      I'm not saying this is the best way (because I don't know...), but there is a fair amount of logic *IF* we ever expect to have regular space travel, more than once or twice a year beyond our own planet. Personally, I can't think of a better way for the science communities of all countries to get together, and every country could participate, even if in some small way.

      Many people thought JFK was out of his mind for thinking we could go to the moon before 1970, but you don't hear about them any more since we actually did it.

      --
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    2. Re:I think that 'care factor = 0'.... by Liam+Slider · · Score: 3, Interesting
      George W. Bush said he wants us to go to the Moon again. I haven't heard anything about science in his statement on the topic; merely flag-waving.
      Not flag waving. Also not quite pure science. The main interest in the current US administration in going to the Moon is in aquiring important resources and the ability to use said resources. We're going there to do what everyone else keeps claiming we Americans do best....exploitation. Not some silly flag planting and nationalistic bullshit. Good for us I say.
  4. DRM aboard by k00110 · · Score: 4, Funny
    communications failure
    The sony rootkit was calling home at that time
  5. Heh. by Visceral+Monkey · · Score: 2, Funny

    I blame Mothra.

    --
    *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
  6. I hate to be harsh to the Japanese/JAXA, but... by TrevorB · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What is the failure rate of Japanese science spacecraft that leave LEO? If memory serves, it seems somewhat high.

    (goes off to check for himself...)

    Looks like there's not enough data to say. Good luck in their future endeavours...

    1. Re:I hate to be harsh to the Japanese/JAXA, but... by helioquake · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is, what they'd call it, purely an engineering mission with scientific goals in mind.

      In other words, they have never done any of these things (flying out autonomously, release a probe, land on an object, and return to the Earth) and this is their first test mission. It was thought to be too freaking bold to try all that at the first attempt; but they tried it anyway.

      The mission is plagued with technical failures; the failure of torque wheels is probably the worst. That really made that autonomous part difficult.

    2. Re:I hate to be harsh to the Japanese/JAXA, but... by richdun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As someone who has worked in/around Japanese space hardware (the JEM intended for ISS), I can say that JAXA knows how to build a great spacecraft, maybe even better, cleaner, and with more emphasis on absolute accuracy than some American spacecraft. Like parent said, this was their first time doing a lot of these things, so I'm sure they'll learn plenty from this and get it right the next time.

  7. It's Rocket Science by blueZhift · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is just another reminder that this is rocket science and isn't an easy thing to pull off. I can't help but wonder how easy or difficult it is for more experienced groups like NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, to share information and expertise with newer groups. For purely scientific missions like this, global collaboration would probably have helped a lot. Not that there wasn't any of that at all, but I do wonder.

    In any case, I hope they won't be soured on future missions. Failures are just a part of the learning process.

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    1. Re:It's Rocket Science by cyclone96 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It actually can be legally very difficult to share information with foreign entities about how to fly things in space (even friendly ones). Under American law, a lot of space technology is considered "defense articles" and fall under the jurisdiction of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) laws.

      Legally, JPL (or an engineer working for them) would need to make sure that they were not violating ITAR (i.e., get the lawyers involved) or get an exception made (which is NOT easy). This usually requires some sort of official collaboration that is in place before the mission begins.

      For example, this exists to a limited extent on the International Space Station. I work for NASA on ISS as a federal employee. I have a specific exemption such that I can share information with the European Space Agency on how to design/fly a resupply vehicle to ISS. Some of my contractors do not have this exemption. It's actually a huge pain to work around, and the contractors are extremely protective of their interests (as they ought to be, Hughes was fined an enormous amount of money when they helped the Chinese troubleshoot a problem in the Long March rocket). In the worst case, you can in fact end up in jail for violating ITAR laws.

      ITAR has been the subject of a great deal of debate. On one hand, space technology is a keystone of the defense of the United States and protecting it legally sounds like a good idea. On the other hand, ITAR laws have caused many satellite buyers to purchase non-American hardware, which hurts the industry and stifles the very innovation in space technology that gives the US such an upper hand.

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  8. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "meat up"? Wha... ...eww. Just forget I asked.

  9. Experience helps by Brett+Buck · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think there are an awful lot of excessively harsh comments here. These guys are trying to do a very difficult mission with virtually no applicable experience. Sure, there's a lot of information that, say, NASA (or more accurately, the contractors who work for NASA/DOD/other customers) has, but you simply can't effectively transfer the experience needed for this type of engineering.

          By the way, there are some very good reasons* that US space projects take so long and cost so much. It's because there are enough experienced engineers around to know where to worry and what to worry about. That didn't build up in a few tries. Some contractors have literally hundreds, bordering on a thousand, successful space missions under their belts.

          All the documents and "design processes" in the world cannot make up for having a few guys around with the necessary background to take a look at the design or implementation, and just see where the obvious problem areas might me.

            It's a tough loss, but it's just the cost traversing of the learning curve.

          Brett

        * Of course, there are some "bad reasons" for overruns and schedule slips, too - usually, overly-optimistic schedules and budgets! In fact, a lot of the time there is no one in the entire acquisition system that has a stake in getting the *real* cost or *real* schedule.

  10. Re:Cool asteroid by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is one image. Notice the shadow cast by the long boulder on the left side about half-way down.

    http://www.space.com/images/v_itokawa_jaxa1_02.jpg

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  11. Perspective by everphilski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    10-100 km is dead on at a range of 288,923,070km... its a matter of perspective. IE: if I shot a bullet at a target and I was off by 1km, i was way off, but if I was off by 1mm I was close. Same thing here, but the scale shifts to a much larger one.

    -everphilski-

    1. Re:Perspective by rewinn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >if I shot a bullet at a target...

      The comparison in inapposite, because bullets can't do mid-course corrections.

      I'm not saying that 100 km ain't pretty darn good; it's just that spacecraft are not at all comparable to bullets, at least until the reaction mass is used up.

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  12. Not lost yet? -- Another trial on Nov 25 by helioquake · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am getting reports that they will attempt another landing on November 25th (JST), provided that the mishap is understood and the position of the satellite is corrected.

  13. NOOOOO! by Xaositecte · · Score: 4, Funny

    Definantely the work of Jaquio...

  14. lost and found by G-Sil · · Score: 3, Funny

    " the probe successfully dropped a small object onto the asteroid as a touchdown target. JAXA then apparently lost control of the probe for 3 hours. " I still think the object they dropped was really really really important.

  15. Probe still alive; another attempt in a few days by FleaPlus · · Score: 4, Informative

    The summary makes it sound like it's over for the probe, which is far from the case. Emily Lakdawalla of the Planetary Society has been keeping track of the latest details. According to her posts, although it will take several days to get the probe back into the proper position, they should be ready for another landing attempt sometime next week.

  16. Perspective and Scale by everphilski · · Score: 2, Informative

    (i was waiting for that response...) Some bullets can, look up a paper by Williams, Hahn, et. al. http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMJPC2005_1177/P V2005_3847.pdf ... I'm one of the authors and yea, there are bullets that do mid-course corrections :P (many others exist... in existance and conceptual. Just mention this paper cause i knew where it was on the top of my head)

    My point is magnitudes of scale. Yes they missed, but if you compare the error - its 3E-7. JAXA was being overabmitious, if you look at their prior projects they just didn't have the experiance to do this kinda thing, they did a damn fine job doing just this.

    -everphilski-

  17. Public Relations Error: I'd care more ... by fygment · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... if like Cassini/Huygens, there were regular releases of publicly available imagery (ideally, raw). Look at all the work and publicity that was scored when amateurs were the first to process the publicly released shots of Titan. Instead, JAXA haven't been in the public eye except, seemingly, for the mission's failures! Who's in charge of their public relations?

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.