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Building PCs - How do you Choose Your Components?
ATP asks: "It's been a few years since I built my current system by ordering parts from the cheapest vendors I could find. Everything went smoothly with very little research, and my system is still running great today. I'm now looking into building another desktop system, but I've become quickly overwhelmed by how complex components have become. In particular, motherboard/CPU compatibility are confusing (think: single/dual, socket 478/604/754/939/939pciExpress/940/LGA775, OS compatibility, memory types, etc). Is there a guide to the not-so-novice PC guru somewhere that would help me catch up on the developments in the last couple years?"
I spew alpha-numeric soup, much like the story submission, until the salesman faints!
...the components choose you!
It's been a few years since I got my current girlfriend by being totally drunken in the cheapest bar in town. Everything went smoothly with very little research, and my girlfriend is still running great today. I'm now looking into getting another girlfriend, but I've become quickly overwhelmed by how complex components have become. In particular, hair and boobs are confusing (think: black, brown, red, blonde hair - big, small, puffy, silicon boobs etc). Is there a guide to the not-so-novice slashdot reader somewhere that would help me catch up on the developments in the last couple years?
Check out what some of the big guns are doing. I'd start by visiting Intel's site. Even if you aren't an Intel fan, there is a ton of info on CPU's, memory, chipsets, etc. available at the site. Also check out what companies like Alienware are doing. They build for a "niche" market primarily - a high end niche market. Again, plenty of info. CNet and Toms' Hardware are good places to look, as are (or were last time I was there) the forums over at Directron.
Isn't that what http://tomshardware.com/ is [supposed to be]?
I don't have much advice other than go AMD, its easier to find compatible parts.
The first thing you need to decide is things like do you want a little computer (like a Shuttle) or something special (dual-cpu SLI) etc. The odder your request, the more your field is automatically narrowed down. The rest of this will apply, but I"ll assume you just want a normal (probably 1, maybe 2 CPU) board without SLI.
Start with the big one. Do you want Intel or AMD? I would go with AMD at this moment, but the choice is yours. So now that you know that, you eliminate a large chunk of stuff. So lets say you want AMD (same basic things for Intel).
Do you want dual processor (NOT CORE, PROCESSOR). If you want multiple sockets (dual rules, but you could get the same benefit with a dual core these days). If you do, that will severely limit your chipset choices and motherboard choices (because most dual-cpu boards are designed for servers). So by reading articles on the CPU you want, you can find out which chipsets support it. Make sure to future-proof. Even if you don't want a dual-core Athlon 64 today, get a chipset that would support it. This will cut down your chipset choices further.
Then look up the chipsets (with reviews of those). These will let you see the features to find something you'd really like that would narrow things down (say SLI as only a few chipsets support that). That way you can find the chipset you want (or at least a list of those you DON'T want).
Now you know your processor type, and a chipset (or small list). Now if want SLI then based on your graphics brand many of these decisions are made for you. With this information you can go out looking various motherboard manufacturers' sites looking for boards that have what you want (or close to it). From here you read reviews and narrow things down.
I've stopped following all this stuff closely as I moved to laptops and then Mac (neither of which can you build your own). I'd say the most important thing would be the processor right now. You need to decide how much you want this system. Because while there are always new revisions coming out every few months, we are about to see some big changes. Intel is going to release their new chips (Yonah?) based on the Pentium M for the desktop. AMD will be moving to a new socket soon to enable them to use DDR2. So you may want to wait. On the other hand, the new Intel processor might not be enough for you wait, and you may see DDR as just fine (because when they first hit the street, the new CPUs and boards will be expensive and might not be worth it to you).
You've got homework to do, but if you just go looking at motherboards for features you like and try to decide the other factors (SLI, CPU, memory, etc) based on that you can be easily overwhelmed at one manufacturer's site.
I hope this helps. This is the process that I went through every time I built a computer, but like I said I used to keep up with this stuff much more than it sounds like you do (I'm now where you seem to be: I know some general stuff but I'd need a bunch of research before even starting to look at parts to buy).
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
After years of building and maintaining my own systems I finally tried a new direction and bought a new Powerbook. Aside from some problems specific to transferring things like e-mail files over to the Mac, (all the gory glory is on my blog) and of course oddities like the lack of a right mouse button and backspace key, it has been pretty painless.
I guess that I just don't have the patience anymore to try and wrangle motherboards, CPUs, hard drives, peripherals, and Windows into a happy coexistence.
I wanted something that I could just plug in and run.
We'll see if I guessed right.
Three Squirrels
I used to buld my systems from loose parts, and had fun doing it. Now though I find I like to save some time buy going to an ala cart shop like Monarch Computer. Using them I can pick out the system components I want and let them assemble/test the system. Monarch does a good job putting together a list of options and is pretty helpful with suggestions. It's much better than buying some off the shelf thing without knowing what is in it plus you get some help picking out a good combination of stuff.
These sites might be of assistance:
www.anandtech.com
www.sharkyextreme.com
www.lostcircuits.com
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
I get my stuff from price watch.
First I find the processor I want, then I get the system board, memory, HD, DVD, case, keyboard, monitor, etc.. Having saved by building it myself, I like to splurge on a nice case, aluminium or fish tank cases are nice.
Simple: get what's new and cost-effective and popular.
CPU:Athlon 64 3200 or better
Motherboard: Socket 939, dual-channel DDR RAM (single channel if too costly), PCI-Express, gigabit LAN (future proofing). Chipset:I'd say Nforce4, but that's the one thing I'm behind on.
RAM: DDR 400 (PC3200) or better with a name brand (name brand gets you more reliability and overclocking)
Video card: Nvidia Geforce 6600GT (or 6800GS if you want lots of performance....ohhhh I wish I had one...). Alternitavely, you can go lower if you're not into games that much. I'm still using an overclocked Geforce 4200 for new games because I have no money, and it works ok.
First, choose a mobo/cpu combo.
Second, buy compatible RAM. (The mobo determines what you need to buy.) Get at least 1GB. Always get your RAM such that you will have two (or four) identical DIMMs. Get the fastest RAM that your mobo can handle. Use the manufacturer's website to determine that. For most AMD systems, this will PC3200 DDR SDRAM. For most (new) Intel mobos, this will be some type of DDR2. DDR2 and DDR have nothing to do with dual-channel memory. That is about whether you have two (or four) identical DIMMs plugged into a dual-channel mobo, in the right slots (one of each color, on most mobos).
Third, grab a hard drive. Look for perfomance rather than just size. Go with 7200RPM at a minimum. SATA is a plus. Make sure the cahce is good and large. 8MB minimum, 16MB is better. If you get 10000RPM or higher, you'll need an HD cooler, though it's a good thing for the slower HDs as well. Don't buy the cooler with the HD, though; you'll find them cheaper elsewhere usually.
Forth, the CD/DVD drive. Get what you'll need. Go with Plextor or Yamaha if you want it good.
Fifth, the power supply(PSU). I only put this fifth because its such a no-brainer, not because it's not important. Get a GOOD PSU with a medium to high wattage. I recommend an Akasa 460W at a minimum and Akasa 650W if you want the best. DO NOT SPEND LESS THAN $60 ON A PSU. DO NOT USE A PSU WITH THAT CAME WITH A CASE. Seriously. Those cheap 450W PSUs you see out there for $20 suck balls. Even if they can handle the wattage your system requires (doubtful as most have inflated stats), they won't be able to handle it well. Bad power is worse than no power, much worse. Bad power WILL cause your system to be very unstable for no apparent reason. If you have that computer with every individual piece of hardware working fine but you still get random crashes and instabilities, its the PSU. Trust me, the PSU is the most important part of your system. If you cheap out, you will be making your system suck donkey for no good reason. Get a good a PSU. If in doubt about what's good, go to Hexus.net. They had a huge roundup of PSUs that they reviewed. Trust them if you don't trust me. But seriously, I can't stress this enough, the PSU is the absolute most important part of your computer purchase and you should NEVER even think of using a shitty, cheapass one. No matter what.
Sixth, the graphics card. This is important. Think about what you want to do and then decide what you want. Use reviews to get a good idea of what's good. Just make sure you get the AGP version if you bought an AGP mobo and the PCI-E version if you got a PCI-E mobo. One will always be more expensive than the other but which one is a crapshoot. For games, Geforce 6800GT or ATI Radeon X800 are minimums. 256MB graphics RAM is also a minimum.
Seventh, the least important aspect of the computer other than the monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers: the case. When you buy a case, you only need to worry about a few things. First, don't get one with a PSU built-in (unless you plan on throwing it away or selling it to someone less informed); those PSUs invariably suck. Second, make sure that it can handle full-ATX if you bought a full-ATX mobo. Otherwise, its all about looks.
Eighth, fans. Buy some fans to keep your system cool. You don't need to worry so much about the processor fan; the ones that come with them are usually fine. But you do need to get some case fans; probably 3 or 4, at least two. Just make sure that you have more (or the same as) fans pointing inside your case than fans pointing out. It helps keep dust down and keeps your system cooler. Be sure that the fans are placed so that air flows from the front to back; your PSU's fan will push air out of the back of your computer too.
Ninth, the rest. These are the least important. Get whatever monitor you can afford. Get the cheapest keyboard that your willing to have on your desk. Get an IR mouse (don't bother with ball mice; they aren't any cheaper). Speakers are a matter of preference. Games
I was in the same boat not too long ago... it took me a few days to get back up to speed, but my method was basically to hit up Wikipedia for the terms and technologies I knew nothing about, shopped around taking notes on what was available, and then finally read reviews on the specific items that I was considering. Eventually those items with the best value got my buy.
Here's a hint on how to get the best value when buying certain kinds of components and money is not an overriding factor. When narrowing down your search for that one component, you'll reach a point where you've found a line of processors, memory, or hard disks that have the features you want. The only difference among your choices is speed or size. The price increases with those numbers, but almost never linearly. Graph speed/size vs price of any current processor model to see what I mean.
At the lower left, you'll see the line rise steadily and then about midway through it starts to rise more rapidly. At any point above that rise, you're paying significantly more money at each increment for only moderate or even insignificant performance gains. The sweet spot for value is right before that rise.
Head to Tom's Hardware or other high end review site. Look for their killer rig review from 6 months ago/1 generation off. Buy those parts and assemble. You'll have a next to top end machine at a fraction of the cost with a parts list that has been fully pounded out by the pro's.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Three other points I would add:
1. All the praise of Tom's Hardware Guide is absolutely true.
2. Analog sources can be good... flip through a few Computer Shopper magazines and the Consumer Reports Buyer's Guide before making significant purchases.
3. Before you spend a dime, run the numbers and figure out whether or not building it yourself is really worth it. Is there a config you want that Dell doesn't offer? How does price compare to an off-the-shelf solution? Would you prefer a single point of contact for repair issues or are you comfortable dealing with multiple vendors? Depending on what you need it to do, a DIY solution might very well be better, faster, and cheaper... just check first.
Also, just in case, this is solely my opinion and not necessarily the opinion of my employer.
Vanya's Law: "In any culture without irony, fart jokes will be the highest form of humor."
IF one knows that one wants a machine that will run "new" release programs in 3 years, that means AMD64, rather than 32-bit
( compatibility-problems, as-in programs simply not running, have been found on the Intel implimentation of x86_64 )
That cuts down the field greatly.
THEN, one looks at whether the thing is guaranteed to be wordprocessing-only
( or equivalent non-taxing, ie NO multimedia-rendering or vid-conferencing, ferinstance ),
and one can sanely go with single-channel-RAM ( socket 754 ),
rather-than dual-channel-RAM ( socket-939 or socket-940 )
THEN once looks at what kind of expandibility one may need, later. . .
Video-card?
No-longer does AGP count ( they aren't making top-end ones anymore, and soon won't be making middle-of-the-road ones, either! ),
so one requires PCIe ( PCI-Express ) 16x on the motherboard.
Does one want to be forced to find a firewire-card to add-in later? or does one want everything built-in?
Does one want the ability to add-in PCIe add-in cards for, say, high-end-audio, or for video-capture, or for ANYTHING?
one needs PCIe slots, then, too ( PCI is going the way of the dodo )
All in all, the one mobo I know-of, that at-the-moment covers it ( including a 4x PCIe slot, for later! ),
is by MSI http://www.msicomputer.com/index2.asp
Unfortunately, it's got a fan on the chipset,
so it's an on-when-one-uses-it cheap workstation-board,
rather-than an always-on everything-server-board
( fans die after however many running-hours they happen to survive )
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?mode l=K8N_Neo4_Platinum&class=mb
Abit's got one that is missing the PCIe 4x slot, but that has no chipset-fan, called the
Abit AN8 Ultra
http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?c ategories=1&model=278
Right, that's the mobo, howabout the CPU?
syncronous-with-the-RAM is a good rule
IF the mobo can deal-with PC3200 RAM ( these 2 can ), then that means the RAM's communicating-speed is 400MHz ( rather-than, say, 333MHz ) .
Since there isn't any valid thing as 1/3 of a wait-cycle ( it's either 0 or it's 1, with computers ), I want the CPU's actual physical speed to be a multiple of that, like say 2000MHz.
That gets the speed, so what choices are there?
cheap, and I wasn't able to get-one, is the
SDA3400DIO28W Sempron 3400+ Socket 939 ( the "3400+" is the approximate equivalent in Intel-speed, known-as its "rating" )
More expensive, and having more on-chip cache-memory, is the
2.0 GHz 939-pin Athlon 64 3200+
Ultimate capability would-be the X2 chip ( 2 Athlon64 cores in one chip, so when one program is swamping one core, the system still responds )
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInforma tion/0,,30_118_9485_13041%5E13076,00.html
shows that cheapest multiple-of-400MHz X2 chip is the "3800+" and the highest-end is 2.4GHz "4800+"
Hit http://www.pricewatch.com/ to discover what sane-prices are for the things, but be sitting-down when you see the highest-end ones. .
Case? Aluminum. That keeps hard-drives cooler ( whole case acts like a nice-big heatsink ).
Make decorations for it using pipecleaners & a hot-melt-glue gun, if you want. . . : )
Video-card?
IF you want quiet, go for ATI rather-than NVidia ( fan-speed, I'm talking about, here ),
and if you want cheap, grab some X300 or something,
the higher-end cards the X800 XL is a very good bu
IPTables enhancement Fail2Ban bans cracker-login's
Note: highly personal opinions are to follow, but they are the result of building lots of my own computers and fixing way more for other people. Use this list as a guideline to get you started and narrow down from there.
:)
First, processors. Intel highly overcharged everyone for years until AMD starting giving them some competition. For that reason alone I buy AMD CPUs exclusively - but they just happen to be the best in most every category currently anyway. Get a 64bit dual core processor, let price decide which one. Get the retail version with a fan and a better warranty.
Motherboard - narrow down by chipset first looking for stability in the drivers etc. Forums can help you a lot here. My advice is go with a motherboard with an Nvidia chipset - they seem to have less bugs and better drivers than VIA. Besides I will be recommending an Nvidia video card and that just helps on the compatibility front. If you are going all new then get a motherboard with PCIe video card slots instead of AGP. Don't get SLI (dual video cards) unless you are really into games and want to spend a lot of money on this.
Next go find a good vendor, (newegg.com), that's as important as any thing else. Check them out on resellerratings.com - look at their satisfaction ratings from when people need to do returns; (newegg.com) that will tell you the most. Or just go to newegg.com. They are the best general vendor out there (newegg.com) with the best customer service, but a little bit pricey because of it. (newegg.com)
From that vendor get the list of motherboards that meet the goals above, and research those boards on the forums (pcper.com) and find one that people are not having trouble with. Don't worry about the absolute fastest performance, the difference between brands is usually negligible. Asus motherboards are usually a safe bet.
Video card - get the best Nvidia card your budget will allow. Don't even think about ATI. Buggy cards, buggy drivers, have been that way for years. ATI's idea of adding stability to their drivers is to add a utility that auto-restarts them when they crash. Make sure that the type of video card matches the video card slot on the motherboard - AGP vs. PCIe.
Memory - get name brand - Corsair, Crucial or Kingston all make me happy.
HD - get Western Digital (one with a 5 year warranty) or Seagate - you can check storagereview.com for specifics.
Don't get a cheap power supply - either buy one separately or get a good name brand case with a power supply - antech etc. There are some good power supply reviews around.
Get nice interface items - keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor. Those items really control how you interact with your computer and are usually overlooked. Go to circuit city or something and try different ones, find out what you like. Personally I go for the Microsoft Natural Pro keyboards and 5 button laser mouse.
DVD drives, Plextor.is usually a safe bet.
That's it!
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
As someone else has mentioned, the ars system guides are excellent. They build several different types of system and explain the trade-offs they make very nicely.
I also happen to really like Dan Bernstein's advice, especially for a good *BSD desktop box. Like Ars, Dan does an excellent job explaining why he chose what he did.
The ars guides are usually almost current. DJB's is not as current. But look at them for the explanations, even if you want newer components. You can apply their advice to the in depth discussions of particular components you'll find at places like Tom's, HardOCP, AnandTech, etc.
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Really, it is easier, cheaper, unless you want AMD - then you are on your own
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
First, find the newest, greatest component. Second, buy the one that came before it.
You really just have be willing to dive in and soak it all up. Search for FAQs and read forums - there are probably some general and specific guides that are useful, and there are helpful, knowledgeable people out there.
Another good thing to do is to read articles and reviews on tech sites and window-shop on online stores that sell pre-built rigs to get an idea of what kinds of components are being put in various computers these days. Then, shop around to see what deals are out there and be sure to read reviews of specific components. Most importantly, SEARCH FORUMS (via Google) to see if people have problems with a given component -- I can't stress this enough! My friends and I have been both bitten by buying a compnent without researching it first, and saved by reading people's complaints about it before buying.
Finally, if you have money don't be afraid to just dive in and buy a bunch of parts. If you're really lost, you're best of getting them from a local parts retailer so you can exchange out anything you accidentally buy that turns out to be incompatible with the rest of your parts.
If you can't afford to screw up, I'd recommend finding a online store that lets you build a custom system from parts on their site. They usually make sure you can only pick combos that will work, and the price will be better than a totally shrinkwrapped system from a major retailer. You can also then swap out parts in the system as you learn more.
Either way you go, you'll need to keep at it for a few years before you really know your stuff. Eventually you'll have preferences for brands and price ranges on everything, a list of regular sites and/or stores to get parts from, and hangouts for news, reviews and discussion of components and issues with them.
Building systems for friends and family (as long as you're willing to do follow up support) is also a good way to figure out what's good and what isn't without wasting your own money >:D
Here are some personal recommendations based on a decade or two of experience (ramble alert!):
- Stay away from VIA for motherboard chipsets if you decide to build an AMD-based system. They're better these days, but I've been burned repeatedly over the last half dozen years. In fact, stay away from everyone but Intel or nVidia; nVidia is now my mobo chipset manufacturer of choice, despite dumping the awesome SoundStorm chipset from their newer mobo chipsets (good thing there are DDL PCI cards out now, but Realtek onboard sound is respectable too these days)
- You get what you pay for with power supplies (up to a point of course). Don't buy that $25 550 Watt power supply because it'll probably blow out in 6 months or the first time it hits anything near 550 Watts - whichever comes first.
- newegg.com is an awesome online parts retailer. If you're into modding, xoxide.com and directron.com are worth a look, but beware of overpriced items.
- Don't believe anything that store clerks/sales reps tell you. If you're looking at something in a retail store, go home and research it first and then go back and buy it if you're still interested. Note that you can usually get better deals online, but local retailers are good in a pinch if you need something right away.
- For those in the Puget Sound area: Fry's is the bomb, and CompuCare is decent. PC Club is so-so. Stay away from CompUSA unless you're really desperate! And never, EVER buy anything computer-related at OfficeWhatever/Staples unless it's printer or scanner related - they're overpriced on everything.
- Netgear makes excellent network hardware, although I'm in love with the WRT54G/GS (but not the current on-the-shelf versions, which have been neutered) wireless routers due to their ability to run homebrew Linux-based firmware.
- 64-bit CPUs and PCI Express motherboards & video cards are now worth buying. I plan to upgrade from my 32-bit, AGP 8x system early next year at the latest.
- nVidia and ATI are neck-and-neck in the video card business right now. Stay away from All-In-Wonde
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
Here's a clue if you don't want to think for yourself:
1) Athlon64 architecture rules, just dump Intel.
2) Better yet, wait for their new socket design to appear early next year or so, since the current Athlon64 socket interface is about to die, and the new has twice the memory speed.
3) When you see the new Athlon64's come out, look at the price curve of the various speed offerings in the new socket. Pick the one somewhere in the middle just before the price goes skyrocketing upwards - that one's probably your best overall price/performance ratio, and you'll never know the difference from the fast one unless you break out the artificial benchmarks.
4) When you see the new Athlon64's come out, it'll say what the name of the new socket is (I'd tell you now, but you'll just get confused and forget). Buy a motherboard with that socket, they'll all be about the same. Preferably from a manufacturer like Asus or Abit.
5) Buy as much RAM as you can afford, of the fastest speed supported by the motherboard above, up to say 2GB tops. Buy it as an evenly matched pair of two sticks. Getting 2GB instead of 1GB is probably worth more than getting the lowest CAS latency, so just ignore that factor. Buy ECC RAM too - it's slightly slower, but it's so much less headache when you know for sure whether your RAM is the issue without running a 32 hour memory test every time you suspect something.
6) Buy your graphics card from the same company as the motherboard above. Buy the latest most expensive NVidia, and it will last you through your next couple of motherboard/cpu upgrades. It should be the same graphics interface as the board above (which would be PCI-Express x16).
7) If you put in any plexiglass or glowing neon shit in your case, I'll come to your house and shoot you.
11*43+456^2
You want a working system that allows you to customize a good starting point and you want it to be built around the latest tech?
y sPackID=1032 Been drueling over it, they'll build and test it for you. Remember it's in $CND so it's basically about $830 U.S and the X2 3800 would be 340 on it's own.
Check this out http://filtechcomputer.com/Product/syspack.asp?nS
I might consider upgrading to a DVD burner and swapping out the Vid card but they'll let you do that.
It all becomes a lot simpler if you decide what you actually use your computer for.
If it's games, then you will need PCI-Express, preferably 2 slots. If it's office / web stuff, then buy whatever is cheap but quality - speed really isn't a factor so save a few bucks by avoiding top end CPUs/GPUs/RAM (don't skimp on the HD, keyboard, mouse, or monitor though). If you want a PC for a home theatre setting, then noise level is crucial and size is very important - nowadays, that's generally AMD territory, since Intel's chips typically use 2x as much power. Etc.
Oh, also, search for "Sony DRM" and see how you feel about rewarding them with your money.
Finally, insist on a 10 year warranty on all capacitors.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
... the tomshardware forums are great for specing a system togeather with feedback about the components.
I'd highly suggest an
AMD 3500+ on an ASUS A8N-SLI 32X Deluxe Motherboard.
This gives you pretty good options for the future-- processor upgrades from single core to duel core, single video card to duel video card, plenty of pci slots, sata, usb, firewire, etc.
I've been extremely happy with my older a8n-sli.
Shadus
PCI-X is just a faster PCI, it is a dead end. PCIe (PCI express) is where the future is. It is a new serial interface.
If you like builing your own for fun or so you know exactly what's in it then by all means do so.
If you are doing it to save money then consider prebuilt systems.
My last few systems were all prebuilt. All were on sale. Yes, I added stuff to them within a month of buying them but I still saved money.
Big advantages to prebuilt:
You KNOW the configuration boots straight off, barring a DOA part.
You have a warranty on the whole unit - no finger-pointing if the parts "work" individually but not together.
If you buy it from a store, they probably have a 30-day DOA warranty.
If you need Wind-blows Home Edition you probably get it for $50 over the price of a similarly-spec'd system with no OS.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a low-end Linux box for under $100 this Friday at the big-box stores. Ditto a $199 Wind-blows box.
Oh to echo what someone else said:
Do NOT skimp on the power supply. For that matter, make sure you have adequate cooling. No need for water-cooling just make sure your CPU and other components does cook. That includes the drives.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Buying a complete system gets you
- A properly assembled and configured system
- Components proven to be mutually compatible
- Burn-in and tested before delivery
In my case the first MB they put in was faulty, so they changed it and reran the burn-in. Had to wait an extra two days. Far from annoying me, it reassured me that the store is serious about quality assurance. *cough* blatant *cough* plug *cough* pccyber.com *cough*Choose your computer dealer like you would any other store, past service experience, recommendation by peers, reviews from credible sources, and if you're really paranoid, getting their record from the government consumer protection department (BBB,CPB,OPC ...)
If there isn't a Free driver available I won't buy it. That excludes some of the hardware but I can still manage.
Given, I am not a bargain PC shopper, but this can be applied there as well.
;) )
Motherboard: This is where I make little compromise. It MUST have the best chipset, and have that chipset implemented properly. The chipset is usually the one point where you can lose most of your performance anymore, so be picky...you can cut corners elsewhere. Remember to pick your CPU make first (P4/Athlon), so keep that in mind. Also note AGP is going away, so now may be a good time to embrace PCI-Express
RAM: generic will do, so long as it can run at the speeds you intend to run it at. I reccomend two 512mb modules myself.
CPU: you can cut corners here if you wish, by buying a slower CPU, or a value end chip like a celeron...for desktop apps, it's hard to not have enough power anymore...for games, most of them still only require 2ghz chips to play.
vidcard: buy based on what you do on your PC...for non-3d applications, look for a fast RAMDAC on your videocard. AGP is on the downturn, so don't expect any new AGP cards showing up for very much longer, PCI-express is replacing it. I'd say get a PCI-e videocard since they cost about the same, and in some cases are actually cheaper. For gaming apps, either a single 6800GT or if your motherboard has SLI, dual 6600GTs (actually faster than the single 6800, at around the same price).
Power supply: very few actually put out what they claim in actual usage, so if buying a cheap PSU, buy it "big". It's only going to eat as much power as you need to run your rig, so no harm in getting a larger PSU than needed.
Case: Think airflow....modern components require large amounts of cool air to run well. Don't go for 80bajillion fans unless you really like the looks or sounds of a giant fan-box, instead look for well-placed large fans, which are usually quieter than having tons of 80mm fans.
For what it's worth: my baby...soon to be upgraded to an athlon 64 PCI-e SLI setup (whenever I get the freaking money...):
athlon xp 3200+ 400fsb
DFI NF-II Ultra 400a "lan-party" motherboard (rev a)
2 x 1gb "super flower" ddr 400 memory
Sapphire Radeon X800XTpe
Antec Neopower 480w PSU
Samsung 200GB PATA hard disk
Toshiba 4x DVD+-RW
Lian-li PC-7x case (why mess with what already works
It's pretty much a overall solid rig, with exception to the hdd, psu, and vidcard, is pretty outdated for high-end gaming though.
I disagree with your suggestion to get budget RAM.
While it's not necessary to get overly-expensive RAM as most overclockers would want, some one building their own system should be looking to a quality name-brand for their RAM.
Any time you have a system malfunction due to bad RAM, it's usually hard to diagnose and incredibly frustrating. The best RAM maintenance is preventive.
The reason name brand RAM is important is due to the origins of budget RAM: Most budget sellers get their RAM from batches that didn't meet the specs of the original manufacturers.
You don't want to trust your system to that. Buy Micron (Crucial), Viking, or Kingston.
The first system I built was an Athlon64 3400+ Clawhammer with a gig of RAM. I've not had a problem with it to this day. The second was a 3200+ Venice core, and the third was a Sempron64 budget computer. The two Athlon systems were around $1200-1300 and are still VERY respectable gaming machines. The budget Sempron64 obsolutely flies on the desktop, and it will play most games, although graphics heavy FPS give it problems because it uses integrated video.
Some important things I've learned along the way:
Sorry about that.
:)
I need more sleep. I promise, I do norally read the comments I reply to.
That last full revamp of my computer I did was about 3 years ago and I am itching to get a new system. But looking at ALL the processor choices as well as video cards and motherboards can be a little staggering.
The bottom line is, don't worry too much about price, and start to focus on particular brands.
If your last computer ran smoothly for a number of years, then stick with the brands you are familiar with. They probably won't fail you again with your new computer.
Sure, some other brand might offer a super deal on a seemingly sweet piece of hardware, but generally the cheaper the component and the more off-mainstream the company, the worse the product is. Why risk buying something that claims better features for less money when you are familiar with a brand that offered you years of quality.
So, once you decide what brands you like and find reliable, then decide what CPU you want.
I recommmend AMD, period. Any 939pin Athlon 64 will give you ample performance in an easy to afford package with an upgrade path that should last a few more years. Don't worry about the dual cores, they are new, underperforming and still a novelty for desktop workstations. See TomsHardware.com ultimate CPU guide to realize just how underwhelming the dual cores are.
Next time to get a motherboard that suits your needs, it may be trying, but weeding out first those motherboards with dual or quad SLI solutions or can connect to 16+ hard drives with RAID X is a good way to weed out wasting money on features your never going to use. You will find that whatever brand your looking at usually has a few good and reasonably priced motherboards that don't have superflous bells and whistels. Asus is still a top notch motherboard maker and offer both premium and price conscious models.
For video cards, nVidia, period. ATI still can't make good drivers, I upgraded to a mid-range x700 for sh*ts and giggles after using an nVidia Geforce 4400ti for years and found my system suddenly unstable, crash prone, and underperforming. Most games I played with the new card was only about 10% faster then the nVidia card that was 2 generations behind. I quickly returned the ATI card, and I won't look back. Again, don't get caught up in the hype surrounding different brands of products, if you find a product that works well for you, and offers years of stable performance, the keep with that brand.
From there, your talking about ram and hard drives, any will do really. If your going for a high performance system, then you might care what the timings are on RAM, but for general systems where price is a concern, any Generic ram that fits in your motherboard will work, there are only a few makers of the actual chips that go on RAM anyways. Same with a hard drive, maxtor, seagate, western digital, may will tell you tale of horror about one or the other, but hard drives have become commodities that are easy to make and generally more reliable as the years go on.
The bottom line is, don't fear the industry. It is easy to fall behind and loose perspective on what is the latest and the greatest, but reading any hardware site like anandtech.com or tomshardware.com will quickly get you up-to-date on which products are hot and which are not and you will get a better idea of what to upgrade to if you spend a little time reading some review sites.
Lastely, if it still seems too daunting, get a Dell. Don't laugh, but after a certain age you don't care about finding the right component X to fit with component Y, getting a preconfigured PC means your going to get a decent system with the support and warranty that makes it a brainless decision in a box that arrives are your doorstep.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
What is this talk about buying pre-made motherboards???
Real geeks build their computers with a PCB board and a soldering iron!
even Tom's, which some geeks claim leans towards Intel, brought a smile to my face in their description of AMD and how well they deal with heat...
:)
November 2004 saw AMD move into the 90 nm age, nine months after Intel did. AMD unveiled a new and very impressive CPU, codenamed Winchester (D0), which was only available in the low-cost market segment. As such, the core made its way into the Athlon 64 3000+, 3200+ and 3500+ models. The technology it was based on was anything but low-cost, though: we would have loved to see the looks on the faces of Intel's engineers when they measured the power consumption of AMD's 90nm CPUs and realized that even under full load, this unimposing CPU draws a mere 31.4 W. This means AMD was able to reduce the power consumption by about 44% clock for clock. Further measurements taken on a specially-modified motherboard in our Munich lab showed an idle power consumption of only 11.1 W.
But the best was yet to come. When the Cool & Quiet feature was activated and the frequency dropped to 800 MHz, the CPU contented itself with incredible 3.2 W. The Winchester was followed by the Venice stepping, which added SSE3 support to the Athlon 64 and lowered the power consumption even further.
source "tom's 'the mother of all cpu charts' part 2" nov 2005
they also made me happy when i saw they benchmarked video encoding with XviD
Funny how everyone forgets to cool the hard drives. If you're fortunate, your case design allows for big diameter* cooling fans around the hard drive cage. Otherwise you have to mount a cooling solution (heatsinks, fans) to the hard drives. I would also go for SATA not just for the performance improvement, but the cabling makes cooling easier. Antecs with cable managment help as well by using ONLY the cables needed (and they're braided to boot). Keeping the case neat isn't just for asthetics, but helps the air move around easier.
*The bigger diameter fans can turn slower while moving the same amount of air, being quieter in the process.
I've assumed you want an AMD CPU (AMD is best for general-purpose use, Intel is only better for specially hand-tuned code using SSE extensions (common in videoediting, some commercial soft-synths, etc...)).
In general, avoid features you have no need for now, and don't need in the future. Less features == higher reliability. Don't buy stuff that's suspiciously cheap (there's probably a reason for that). Don't buy stuff that's suspiciously expensive either (it's for enthusiasts and is not worth it).
Just a thought, you could also go hybrid - start with a nice low end Dell desktop like their Dimension 5150, baseline it out to use it as a barebones and add the good stuff like so :
Intel P4 HyperThreaded 3.0GHz base system with a full Gig of memory, a 160G hard drive and a 16x DVD (dual layer) burner and an Audigy 2 for about $900 shipped - including a 19" LCD and a legit license for XP.
Toss the crap video card it came with and drop in the Gigabyte Dual GF 6800 SLI card you have for $220 and you are looking at a complete system for about $1,100, including a 19" LCD, DVD burner, and licensed OS - and all the 'building' you have to do is drop in a video card. Already got a nice monitor? EBay or Craigslist the 193FP for $250 and this entire system cost you about $850 top to bottom, 100% complete and 100% as fast / powerful as the system you described - or keep the display and you are looking at a rightous rig very strongly in the $1,150 range all inclusive.
After adding a hard drive, 19" LCD monitor, DVD burner, and operating system (all from NewEgg) to your $800 system I'm coming in somewhere in the $1,250~$1,300 range - pretty much exactly the same, if not a little more expensive than the Dell + video card solution.
Lets at least compare oranges to oranges here. Hand building your box can be a very rewarding experience, but the days of handbuilding a system and saving $1,000 off the cost of a Dell are long over.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Additional hard drive notes:
(1) Warranty!! Don't buy a drive with a 1 yr warranty. 3 to 5 years is acceptible.
(2) Cache. More is better. Most budget drives offer 2mb of cache, but several models come with 8mb or more and are reasonably priced.
As for price, I've found the best $/Gb ratio is around $100 (+/- some). Unless you NEED the extra space you'd get by spending $300 on a drive, check prices online (eg Newegg) and sales/rebates available at your local storefront retailer (eg BestBuy).
An honest question: how exactly would one flash the BIOS before installing the CPU on the board? Do you need a separate EEPROM burner or something?
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.