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How The Revolution Will Change Games Forever
1up.com has a lengthy article discussing the possible ways that Nintendo's next console will change the face of gaming. A nice pie-in-the-sky article for a quiet Holiday afternoon. From the article: "... We're sick of waiting, so we came up with a list of hypothetical Revolution game concepts -- some pulled directly from Nintendo's Tokyo Game Show video that showed actors but no real games, others pulled from some of the popular ideas we've heard floating around -- and took them to impartial third-party developers to find out how practical it is for games on Revolution to be more than just gimmicks. Over the next five pages, we talk with developers from Harmonix, Radical Entertainment, Foundation 9, Atlus, and Midway to figure out how many of these hypothetical game ideas that are floating around have the potential to become actual games, and what advantages/problems might come with that as a result of the Revolution's remote control-shaped, motion sensor controller."
"We stretch a three paragraph article to five pages!"
There's no point in slashvertising your site if it can never withstand a slashdotting. Seriously, I haven't gotten a single article of theirs that was advertised here to load. Ever.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
How can you "prove a negative" without ever having your hands on one? I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, but I do see that it's way too easy for people to say "X is a bad idea" before having any experience with it. Based on that, 99.999% of the population could justifiably say Nintendo Revolution is crap. How is this kind of comment useful?
PlayStation3 - does the same thing as my computer. Xbox 360 - does the same thing as my computer. Nintendo Revolution - Gives me the opportunity to get away from my desk and sit back on the couch or play games with some friends who are in the same room as myself(without breaking the bank.) I remember when I was teaching my Mom how to play Super Mario Brothers for the NES 12 years or so ago ... No Mom! Just push the buttons, violently jerking the controller up in the air will not make you jump any higher. Ahhhh, memories.
Never Compromise
How the hell is it "Insightful" that the Nintendo Revolution won't change games for cryptoz?
I hope this huge risk will not be as popular as their other new tech they tried some years ago with the Virtual Boy. At this time they have little competition and could afford to loose royally with one consol, but if the revolution doesn't established itself when it goes out, we can count Nintendo as the same league as Sega.
If you want to figure out what Nintendo is paying attention to, perhaps you should go check this out. It's a transcript of a presentation given at an investor's meeting (IGN also has some videos of the presentation available in small resolutions for free).
Also, it's odd that you talk about Nintendo as if they make immature games. The games that you think are mature on the PS2 and X-box are really made for children -- those 14-24 year old boys who belive that seeing explosions, blood, guts and dead hookers everywhere makes them a Man. Seriously, a 30 year old man shooting hookers in GTA is not "mature" -- it's childish and pathetic. The problem is that seems to be the ONLY audience that the Xbox is really paying attention to.
That's a lot of bullshit. Are you in a FUD campaign? The speculations on the back library, the omission of how many old games XBox 360 can play.
Nintendo isn't slick about design? And the XBox controller is what? How can you also afirm that whatever PR is showing will not be the actual final design?
Catchup for the last 10 years? They own Japan and the worldwide handheld market. Pokèmon and Mario games only? I only see sequels on the 360 launch line-up...
What a bunch of crap...
The controller is the major concern with the Revolution; however, it looks like it might be the best controller for FPS on a console yet. We'll just have to wait for it to come out to try. There will also be the shells that turn the controller into retro contollers, maybe Nintendo will also settle on a standard shell for game that wouldn't map to the remote style gameplay for use with multiplatform games.
The Revolution is also supposed to directly play Gamecube disks so it has a 1up on the 360s hokey backwards compatiblity. The back library being available could be a major asset if they priced it right. I'd be willing to spend $5/month to access Nintendo's old NES and SNES game legally, I doubt it will be this cheap but we'll have to see. It would also be nice if 3rd parties get into the mix such as Capcom and Konami releasing their old games as well with the standard service.
The first one is talking about using the controller as a baton for a music game. They talk to the guys at Harmonix (very cool company, they just released the AMAZING Guitar Hero). While the guy didn't seem to know it, the game Mad Maestro for the PS2 could be played this way with a baton controller (which I don't think was released in the US, only Japan got the controller). It was actually supposed to be a good game. Still you could easily use a pair of controllers to play onscreen drums, I think that would work great.
They mention using the controller as a sword or lightsaber. I agree with the mention that this would be problematic because there is no "feel" to it. While you can make it rumble, I don't think that will be enough. You swing your sword and your opponent blocks you. But your controller keeps going (maybe with a rumbling). I think that would be a problem.
They talk to the guy behind Trauma Center for the DS. While it is an interesting idea, I agree that the surgery wouldn't work as well as on the DS because you aren't touching a screen like with the DS. But the idea of using the controller in other parts of the game for diagnosis (otoscope, test reflexes, etc.) sounds very interesting. I like the idea he suggests about hooking up a DS for the surgery part and using the revolution controller for the rest.
That's all I can remember right now. I'll post back with more if I think of it and I think it's worth it.
I can't wait for the revolution. I don't know about its graphics. I don't know of a single game for it (they have confirmed various sequels and such but we've never seen anything about them). But I as still far more excited by it than anything else. Between the unique controller and Nintendo continuing to push against "more of the same", I can't wait. When they do something, they tend to do it right.
I hear a full 45% of Mario Kart DS owners are playing online. They may have waited to do it, but it sounds like they knew what they were doing. I haven't picked up the game yet (I intend to), but it looks great. The only thing I wish is I hear the online races are only four players. It would be nice if it was 8 (even if each DS supplied one computer player). But that is a minor gripe.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
From the view of a pretty avid gamer, with many friends who also game, it seems like Nintendo are focusing on a completely different market. To many people now, if you want a console that is fun for yourself.. you go Microsoft or Sony... if you want a console that is fun for when you have your friend's round, you go for Nintendo. Many people can't play a lot of Mario Kart on their own as it gets boring, but if you have many people playing with you, it is truckloads of fun. Nintendo just need to realise that not everyone always has lots of friends to play their consoles with.
Business Voyeur
Are you talking about the same 360 that have a part of their production returned for glitches.
Sure game will be change forever, from now on the game will be program to actually glitch at a precise time just before the end
So, will Nintendo evolve the game industry? Considering they have played catchup for the last 10 years, I doubt it.
Played Catch-Up?
When it comes to videogame designs and trends Nintendo (as a game developer) is usually months or years ahead of their competition. The games that they have published have been copied by every company; Mario 64, Goldeneye, Zelda OoT, Pokemon, Mario-Party, etc. have all had their designs stolen to produce crappier games on other platforms. Pikmin, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars, Nintendogs, Wario Ware, Electroplanktin, Kirby's canvas curse, etc. are all excellent games that are nothing like any other game you can get on any other platform. Whether Sony or Microsoft Fanboys like to admit it or not, Nintendo has been inventing far more genres and pushing the industry more than any other company; other companies are interested in adding Rag-Doll physics to a First person shooter, or adding 'correct' differential noises to a racing game.
The truth is that there are few genres that Nintendo hasn't had a massive impact on how they're played and thought of. The Revolution suddenly allows this visonary company the freedom they require to create new genres and redefine existing ones.
no revulition yet (except for the new record of crashing consoles)
Nintendo's entire point with vastly simplifying the control over the other current generation offerings isn't to 'change games forever', it's to create a new market away from what most people currently consider video games to be.
They are trying to make Xbox360/PS3 vs Revolution an irrelevant argument by creating something for people that can't even fathom playing Xbox360 and PS3. Once they start marketting it heavily, it'll probably be mostly about showing grandmas playing with their grandchildren and any other 'fish-out-of-water' type imagery they can come up with that tries to change peoples' notions of who a video gamer is.
Even if it does become possible for grandma to play video games, I can't quite fathom how nintendo is going to convince grandma that she wants to. I guess that lies entirely in what games are made. It's already been shown that grandma will play internet card games if she can manage basic internet usage, I imagine Nintendo could muster up an easier to use version of that, but will they?
Is that supposed to be funny?
Because, you know, it's not.
Disclaimer: Card Carrying Nintendo Fanboy, so take my comments as coming from such.
Nintendo does have mature games. Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, and Resident Evil are examples. They will always carry family-friendly/kiddy games. You have listed examples of them. It is perfectly possible, and perfectly reasonable to do both. The existance of one does not preclude the existance of the other. In fact, limiting their audience by dropping one or the other would be an unwise choice. Most of your comments, such as your belief that they will add handles and such to the console seems to stem from the idea that they are a kiddy console. I would encourage you to rent a Gamecube and fire up some of their mature games to convince yourself otherwise. You really will have a blast. The way I see it, if they have the controller working as flawlessly as people are hoping, they will have a real hit on their hands. If it is even SLIGHTLY under expectations, retail stores will be reclassifying them as paperweights to get rid of inventory. I don't believe there is a middle ground on this.
Where did you get that idea?
I expect that we won't see the slim silver/white wedge that their PR department has been coming out with. It will probably be made out of cheap plastic with handles and other superfluous design elements that aim more for the young gamer market
I hate to interfere with your attempt to work out your self-esteem issues, but for the record, they almost certainly will release something like the elegant designs they've shown at E3.
The previous "toylike" design focus was apparently largely due to Yamauchi's influence. Now that Iwata is truly in charge, Nintendo has shown many signs of being a much more flexible company and responding to the market rather than Yamauchi's personal image of what Nintendo should be (note the dramatic change in style from the original GBA to the GBA SP).
We live, as we dream -- alone....
While I agree with the gist of your post, I'll just mention that a lot of people aren't looking for blood and hookers, but rather consider "mature games" and "multi-player first person shooters" interchangable. Admittedly, the Gamecube does not have a huge library of these types of games. Indeed, without stronger networking capabilities, these type of games would be lost on the system. Hopefully if the Revolution's controller is as well-suited to FPS's as it looks to be, we'll have fewer people dismissing the Revolution as a "kiddy" system.
I agree, the only way it'll change gaming for me is by giving me one less system to buy.
Look at how crazy successful games like DDR are. My sister in high school saved money with friends so they could buy a nice DDR pad. They get a bunch of people together some weekends and create tournaments. Otherwise they don't play video games.
If the Revolution (games) can deliver on creating that sort of experience even on a infrequent basis (not every game, but 3-4 a year), it could signal a shift in how some developers think.
However there is still a huge demand for "traditional" games too, but the Rev has that covered with the ability to use GC controllers (unlike the PS3 and Xbox where you have to buy all new hardware.) Yeah I'm a slight Nintendo fanboy, but if I weren't, I'd still be more interested in the Revolution than the competition, because I'm a gizmo nerd first and formost.
No sig for you!!
Not only that, but the fact that Nintendo is aiming at a younger audience means we get more "blue sky games" than other systems. There is this "blue sky in games" campaign saying that we don't want realistic gang war games which show off the ugliness of our larger cities, but we want games with lots of blue and red things in them, that make us feel happy when we play them. Being with Ninty means we will get more happy games than the competition. http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in- games-campaign-launched.html
Excuse me?
I had a SuperWildCard for my SNES, I have a QoobSX for my NGC and there are solutions for the handhelds available.
"Aw, dammit, there go my next paychecks..."
Awesome, you just raised the average IQ of all segments of the console market.
How the hell is it "insightful" to complain about the moderating on a post that wasn't even moderated that way?
Don't be quick to discount Nintendo's influence; they have quite the history of changing controllers forever. Their previous innovations include the d-pad (Game & Watch), shoulder buttons (SNES), the analog stick (N64), expansion ports (N64), and rumble (N64). The analog stick is especially notable, as it was also thought to be just a gimmick when it was introduced. Also, with the traditional-style shell Revolution has the best of both worlds; a standard-style controller with full motion and tilt sensing.
The RC is the first controller with three-dimensional input; it supports six degrees of motion (three displacement and three rotational), while an analog stick only supports two. Two analog sticks together only cover four. Factor in the Revolution's d-pad and analog stick, and you have 10 degrees of motion while making three-dimensional navigation more intuitive.
Possibly, but I doubt it because wi-fi connection could easily have been subscription-based, and Nintendo opted to give it away.
True, but the Game Boy Micro and the DS redesign (as well as the Revolution design itself) indicate that they're learning. Also, Nintendo's said that the Revolution will be its smallest console yet.
The PS3 and 360 will be amazing in streaming media operations (which translates to better graphics), but both use deep-pipelined CPU cores with unimpressive cache and small or nonexistant branching predictors, so branching performance suffers. Poor branching performance won't hurt graphics; but will limit processes like AI, game control code, and physics. With Nintendo's games-over-specs mentality, Broadway (the Revolution's CPU) will most likely have either a beefy cache and/or be PowerPC 970-based and thus have nice branching predictors, either of which would make it the most powerful next-gen for branching-intensive code. Leaked specs indicate a dedicated physics processing unit, which would make Revolution games feel the most realistic by a good margin if true. Microsoft and Sony aimed for super-powerful graphic machines, and they succeeded; Nintendo just wants a game machine, and they'll make a good one.
Nintendo's game-centric mentality is at fault for the GameCube's perceived weakness; their target audience doesn't care about specs, so they didn't trumpet the GameCube's specs much. Spec-wise, GameCube is close to the XBox, and they're both far ahead of the PS2. In my experience, GameCube games are much smoother-looking than XBox or PS2.
In general, I don't think Nintendo makes games for kids; they make games for everyone that are appropriate for kids. However, some Nintendo games have parts that would be disturbing to some children. Ocarina of Time has bloodstained floors, walls made out of bones, and blood being coughed up. In the Wind Waker finale, Link embeds his sword in Ganondorf's skull.
That said, they do have an image problem among gamers in a certain age range in the U.S. I suspect cultural differences make it hard for them to see how there games are perceived over here. However, I don't see them changing focus to the adult market as long as their family-friendly games keep selling as well as they do. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo has to be profitable in the gaming market to survive; and
### Nintendo does have mature games. Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, and Resident Evil are examples.
Sadly that is already half of the mature games available for the Cube, there really is not much more and especially nothing more that is Cube-exclusive. Speaking of MetroidPrime I don't even consider that very mature, sure you have a big gun, but hardly any story worth to talk about, no characters, no dialog (well, a tiny little bit) and hardly any violence worth to talk about. I really love the 2D Metroids, but Prime never really got me, kind of just bores me, I think it simply didn't went far enough, it basically never was scarry. Anyway, the throuble of the Gamecube isn't the non-existent mature games, it has some, but simply the lack of quantity and varity of games. Gamecube has the games that Nintendo produced and very little else, these days even the multiplatform games end up PS2 und XBox only, Gamecube gets ignored.
Maybe you were just put off by the 3D. I was worried before playing it that the 3D/FPSness would ruin it, but Retro did it properly, not a "3D is better!"/half-assed job (cough Lament of Innocence cough). In Prime, the 3D world combines with the first person view and the log entries to give you an even more intense "explorer" feel; the very thing that I think makes Metroid excellent. Ahem, that's enough ranting about Metroid. Yeah, it's horrible. GC owners can't play GTA. And there aren't a zillion horrible "RPGs." The bottom of the GC barrel is nowhere near as low as the bottom of the PS2 or Xbox barrels.
Perhaps the people who play video games just need more friends(in real time or in real life.) I have to admit that after I saw the propaganda video from Nintendo I have more of a desire to get my hands on one. Remember the old Nintendo Commercials - they showed kids walking around as if they were in the game environments or sometimes they ran into an exploding Nintendo Entertainment System Kiosk http://www.retrojunk.com/details_commercial/50/ . I must agree with the idea that Nintendo is more for friends in the room while psx and xboxs might be more considered for the lone gamer who makes friends online (not that there is anything wrong with that.) However based on the friends factor alone I feel like we are missing the point. 1. Not everyone is rich enough to drop 400 bones on a gaming system. 2. Then you need to buy games at 50 bones a pop. 3. If I want to sit alone in my room for hours on end - its because I am already doing it with my computer. The computer with the mouse keyboard input options offer much more than a console with any type of "joystick". Think Arcade. Think Friends in the same room. Think the reason that games became popular in the first place - to have a good time with your friends (solitaire is one of the few exceptions I can think about for the moment.)
Never Compromise
I am not dissing the Revolution's RC, I think it will be fun if done right and depending on how well they integrate the add-on components, it could become a major selling feature of the Revolution. It could also become their crutch if ALL games for the Revolution must make use of this novel gimmick. But will it change game controllers forever? No.
Before Nintendo, everyone used joysticks instead of dpads. Then everyone used dpads, until Nintendo added analog sticks. Now everyone uses analog sticks. Just because everybody does something one way doesn't mean they'll refuse to change when something better comes along. Is the Revmote better? I don't know, but I do know that I've yet to come across a current game concept that can't be done intuitively with the revmote & nuchuk. The planned controller shell isn't even necessary.
Asside from that, there is nothing truely revolutionary about the Revolution. Sure, Nintendo will make their back library available for play on the new system, again a gimmick that will drive sales in the first year or so, but I bet Nintendo will opt for a subscription based service that people will grow tired of paying some $X amount of money a month to play games they already owned. Also, this concept isn't even NEW. PS2 could play its entire back library, and the new Xbox360 offers an arcade marketplace for downloading and playing old game favourites from arcades and PC shareware.
Yeeeeeah, we don't know that. It took from E3 to TGS for Nintendo to reveal the controller. It's 6 months minimum to release (doubtful they will release before or even near next year's E3), and they're still holding a lot back. Will anything else be revolutionary? Only Nintendo execs.
Also, Nintendo has already said, for first party games, the wifi connection that used for the DS & Revolution (they're going to use the exact same infrastructure to lessen costs and ease approachability) will be free. Older games will be a pay per download service, almost exactly like Live Arcade. You pay once, download the game to the flash memory stored in your system, and play it whenever you want. This has already been stated. They have stated you can extend the flash memory with SD cards, but have not stated whether you'll be able to copy retro games to those cards and take them with you to a friends Rev. There are valid reasons to allow this, and other, equally valid reasons to disallow it. We'll find out eventually I suppose.
And to put it quite frankly, the PS1+PS2 library together don't quite match the library of titles available to Nintendo if 3rd parties offer their games as well (which several have already said they plan to do...or, more precisely, Nintendo has made deals with them so they will offer said content). Also, as someone else has mentioned, the Rev will play GCN discs. They may have similar problems to the 360, but then again, the Rev has the same hardware manufacturers for the CPU & GPU that the GCN did, and is using the same API as the GCN, so very likely it will use hardware emulation for GC games instead of software, meaning a 98% or better compatibility rate.
For size, I bet the Revolution will be the smallest again, but traditionally Nintendo isn't big on "slick" designs, and usually the end result looks more like a Fisher Price product. I expect that we won't see the slim silver/white wedge that their PR department has been coming out with. It will probably be made out of cheap plastic with handles and other superfluous design elements that aim more for the young gamer market.
Compare the design of the GBASP or the GBM w
just some guy
Right now it says 40% insightful. My guess is that at one point it was mostly rated insightful and by the time you got there the troll and overrated mods took over.
need i say more?
### Nintendo does have mature games. Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, and Resident Evil are examples.
Sadly that is already half of the mature games available for the Cube
Even if it was half- (I dunno, haven't checked the facts) what a f-ing STELLAR list of games that is. All replayable, unique experiences.
Somehow, without the same kind of hype as Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo always manages to make these games that make you feel like you're playing something just a bit different. The 360 my friend owns- I love it, been over to his house every day, can't wait to buy one, BUT, it feels like my computer. Ditto the Xbox.
Some of those Gamecube/N64 games just make me feel like I'm taking a break from reality.
I think MP (the first one, at least) was subtle enough that the details flew under your radar. One of the things I loved most about MP was that the world itself was almost a character, telling you its story through the "dialogue" of the scan visor. Wandering through the lush wetlands, the crumbling but majestic ruins, the starkly beautiful snowy mountains, etc., you listen to the planet tell the story of its own fall, and it contrasts itself against the harsh efficiency of the Space Pirate invaders to win you over.
And it's not like MP took away anything from the old-school Metroid games. The Metroid series has never had characters or dialogue; it's always been about Samus exploring the environment. I played a lot of Super Metroid, and consider it one of my favorites for the SNES, but I personally rank Omega Pirate from MP higher for tension-building and scariness than most of the bosses in Super Metroid. The trial-and-error aspect of finding the weakness in Draygon (the Maridia boss) is a bit reminiscent, but (especially on Hard mode) the Omega Pirate battle combines prying apart his weaknesses with a race against time before you run out of energy tanks.
And if you want tension and scariness, that's one of the few places that MP2 Echoes exceeds MP1 in spades. Wandering through the Space Marine base, wading through all the carnage, then suddenly having your perspective yanked out from under you when you realize that what you thought happened to them was actually much, much worse. What's more, once you reach the main thrust of the game, you spend a lot of time running from safe spot to safe spot like a rat scurrying in the shadows. The game also has much more intense boss battles: on hard mode, most boss battles are potentially lethal and many of them are as difficult as Omega Pirate on Hard mode in MP1.
Range Voting: preference intensity matters
Amen. That's all I can say. I couldn't've said it better myself.
I said exactly the same things about the DS. All bets are off, gentlemen.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Gravity gun. We can only hope that Valve are drooling over the possibilities as much as the rest of us.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Theres been lots said about the fact you'll be able to download and play old Nintendo games but has anything been shown of the new games that'll be availible for the system yet?
To err is human. To forgive is not company policy.
From gamerankings.com, GCN list of M-rated games:
1. Resident Evil 4
2. Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
3. Resident Evil
4. TimeSplitters: Future Perfect
5. Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
6. Def Jam: Fight for NY
7. Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
8. Hitman 2: Silent Assassin
9. Resident Evil 0
10. Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
11. Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
12. True Crime: Streets of LA
13. Red Faction II
14. Killer7
15. Mortal Kombat: Deception
16. Dead to Rights
17. XIII
18. Spartan: Total Warrior
19. Serious Sam: Next Encounter
20. Midway Arcade Treasures 2
21. Geist
22. Hunter: The Reckoning
23. Turok: Evolution
24. BloodRayne
25. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3
26. Blood Omen 2
27. Rogue Ops
28. Resident Evil 2
29. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon
30. Resident Evil Code: Veronica X
31. Die Hard: Vendetta
32. Spawn: Armageddon
33. BMX XXX
That seems like a decent amount of M-rated games for the person who absolutely can't play anything that's rated E. And.. that is only M-rated games, not just games rated T, but are not "kiddy" games.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
### Off the top of my head (not that these are good games): Blood Rayne, Mortal Kombat, BMXXX (or whatever), the Tom Clancy game(s?), Dead to Rights, Hitman, Red Faction, Blood Omen, the Die Hard game. There are some other FPSs.
How many of those are GC-exclusive and how many of them are actually good? And how about other kinds of 'mature' games, like racing games, GrandTurismo, Forza, etc.?
### Because the 2D Metroids did have story, characters, dialogue, and violence?
MetroidFusion had plenty of story, MetroidZero a little less, but still quite a bit, SuperMetroid didn't have much story on its own, but it had little details such as the creatures you could save in the end which made some lasting impact on me, can't remember a single situation in Prime that made me "WOW".
### Apparently you didn't even play Prime
I did from start to end, however I can't really say I enjoyed it much. Since it was quite a while ago I might have forgotten half of it, but anyway.
### Apparently you didn't even play Prime, because there is a lot of backstory spread through the whole thing in the multitude of log entries you can find.
Thats what I call "bore-me-to-death-with-post-its". There wasn't a single character in the game that I cared about, well there weren't any to begin with, and overall the story simply had zero impact on the game, it was never "Oh, I wanna know how this is gonna end", it simply was a going from one boss enemy to the other. Post-Its could be completly ignored.
### the log entries to give you an even more intense "explorer" feel
One of my biggest problem with Prime is probally that the enemies respawn, it just doesn't feel any real if you have to fight the very same monster formations over and over and over again. The whole level design feels like a game, not like a real world. In 2D games I can live with that, but from a 3D game I expect more. ResidentEvil for example also has plenty of story told via letters, instead of actually dailog, but there those stuff has impact on the gameplay, you need it to find out codes, places to go to, etc. and last not least ResidentEvil used very few letters, in Prime those log entries are scattered all across the world.
### Maybe you were just put off by the 3D.
Well, I didn't like the controls that much (to many flying enemies that were impossible to target without getting hit yourself), even so the lock-on feature was a very nice addition, but anyway the 3D look isn't a problem for me. The graphics itself are fine, its just the setting that is just to unrealistic, respawning enemies all those special spots to be triggered with morphball and such, just doesn't feel like a real world. It felt like "Oh, the game designer now wants me todo that... blah" not like "Oh, *I* wanna go there and find out what had happened".
### harsh efficiency of the Space Pirate invaders to win you over.
Speaking of Space Pirates, I don't like them, in the whole game they never seem real, they have basically no AI and act pretty much brainless, they also respawn, which makes them feel like just another bug to squish. I think one of the major problems for me is that Prime tries to kind of wrangle a story around the Metroid setting, but simply utterly fails to make that story believable. I never got the feel that evil Space Pirates do their dirty business in this place and I have to stop that, it was simply a bunch of levels stuck togother without ever feeling 'real', it always felt artificial.
### And if you want tension and scariness, that's one of the few places that MP2 Echoes exceeds MP1 in spades.
MP2 Echoes definitvly is a bit better, but the world still doesn't feel very real and believable, especially some of the boss fights are just way to boring and destroy any immersion that might have build up (I stopped playing at the morphball-based enemy, that just was zero fun).
### What's more, once you reach the main thrust of the game, you spend a lot of time running from safe spot to safe spot like a rat scurrying in the shadows.
Yes, that definitifly was the most fun in all of what I have played of Prime2. Sadly it was over a little bit to quickly with some suit upgrade.
Not saying that Prime or Prime2 are bad games, many people seem to enjoy them, but for me they never felt authentic, it felt mostly just like puppet theater, all lacking any real substance, gameplay also felt pretty tedious thanks to respawning enemies and a few badly places save rooms. One can of course say that the 2D ones weren't that different, for me however the 2D ones worked, playing all of them up to 100%, tryed a bit poor-mens-speedrunning, and such, the 3D ones however never even started to become real fun.
"If they are going one about the whole "Remote Controller" concept, it will be a gimmick."
OK, so you didn't actually read the article then? Regardless, you should know that the following were called gimmicks when they were announced: D-pad, analogue stick, DS. All have been unqualified successes.
"Widely used in Nintendo's popular titles like Mario Party or Metroid, many third party developers will come out with a few novel games, but as long as other game consoles and the PC market use "traditional" gamepads, it will not be revolutionary."
Well, considering nearly every major developer has mentioned that they like the controller, that they can think of good ideas for it, and that Nintendo have said they can work with anyone who can't work out how to map the controls to it, and that the vast majority of 1st party titles will use it, I'd say you're wrong, but only time will tell. What a lot of people like you seem to forget is that previous gaming "gimmicks" (Eyetoy, gametrack, powerglove etc.) were add-ons to consoles, not packaged with the console itself. This means that you can only develop for a small percentage of that console's user base, not all of it.
"I am not dissing the Revolution's RC, I think it will be fun if done right and depending on how well they integrate the add-on components, it could become a major selling feature of the Revolution. It could also become their crutch if ALL games for the Revolution must make use of this novel gimmick. But will it change game controllers forever? No."
OK, so some sense here, you admit it will be fun, and you raise a valid point about add-ons, I think everyone is worried about he cost/usefulness of extra peripherals. But how can it possibly be a crutch? I won't bother to explain, i'll leave it to your imagination, but the rev has the same amount of buttons and more analogue control that the GC, and only one less button that the PS2/3 XBox/360, but still with more degrees of freedom. That of course is without the shell add-on, which gives you a "traditional" joypad, with added motion sensing, how can that be a "crutch"?? Will it change controllers for ever? We'll see, but as both Sony and MS have been working on similar ideas, there is obviously a feeling in the industry that we have pushed "traditional" controllers as far as they can go.
"Asside from that, there is nothing truely revolutionary about the Revolution. Sure, Nintendo will make their back library available for play on the new system, again a gimmick that will drive sales in the first year or so, but I bet Nintendo will opt for a subscription based service that people will grow tired of paying some $X amount of money a month to play games they already owned. Also, this concept isn't even NEW. PS2 could play its entire back library, and the new Xbox360 offers an arcade marketplace for downloading and playing old game favourites from arcades and PC shareware."
Firstly, we don't know probably 50% of this consoles features, but assuming there's nothing more to know, I can't see how you don't see built in emulation and a free managed online service to not be revolutionary. This is Live+ and without the cost! Rumours have it, and I for one hope they are true, that Nintendo will allow developers to release new NES, SNES, N64 content onto the system, maybe even selected homebrew. They've got some of the greatest games ever made in thier back catalogue and Sega are sounding very interested in coming on board, which would mean almost every quality game of the pre-PlayStation era available on a home console, I'd call that pretty revolutionary.
"For size, I bet the Revolution will be the smallest again, but traditionally Nintendo isn't big on "slick" designs, and usually the end result looks more like a Fisher Price product. I expect that we won't see the slim silver/white wedge that their PR department has been coming out with. It will probably be made out of cheap plastic with handles and other superfluous design elements that aim more for the young gamer
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000843045537/
Nintendo Revolution's classic Nintendo games will be free Posted Jun 3, 2005, 2:48 PM ET by Ben Zackheim
Related entries: Culture, Nintendo Revolution, Online, Retro
Wow. Good move. When we spoke with Nintendo about the price of their classic "emulated" games on the Revolution, they were coy and left the pricing up to our imaginations. I assumed they'd follow the GBA model -- 10-12 bucks for a classic would be fair. But George Harrison of Nintendo just sprung a surprise. Classic Nintendo titles will be free.
Sorry guys, but I think Nintendo (and its fans) are overreacting quite a bit about its controller. 3 reasons
1.-Even if all the ways of gameplay shown in the revolution trailer worked (most of them are just theories) it will still be tiresome trial and error before developers would (if ever) get those right and make them fun as well, meanwhile they will feel and play like experiments.
2.-ITS JUST A CONTROLLER, how difficult is it for a peripheral like this to be made for the PC, the PS2 or the xbox? legally all they would have to do is to use another method for getting the signal and they wouldnt be violating the patent.
3.-It has already been done, the DS has two screens and an stylus for control, a nice novelty yes, did it changed portable gaming forever? NO, not even in the very DS the 2 screens or the stylus are not used in a significant way in most games, I mean seriously how important is to scribble spells in Castlevania to make it enjoyable? how much do you need to check the map all the time? wouldnt be the same to have a transparent overlay on top?
Seriously guys this is the 21st century if Nintendo wants to gain the market back, they have to do better than that.
IMO they could
*Reduce the console price with the same components than competition. (a cheap ps3? count me in!)
*Cater a lot more for third party developers specially for adult/teen market. (can I play the latest GTA or FPS in it? no not halo , but at least battlefield would be nice)
*Connectivity, Free (or very cheap) international gaming service, enough said. (I think they are actually doing this one, thats good! but they are missing the other 2)
If Nintendo would be able to deliver that (and not just a controller to play the same games they've made in 20 years), just about anyone would be glad to go back to them.
If they dont want to or they make money otherwise, cool, but dont expect everyone to jump in the bandwagon just because of a controller. The sales of the xbox360 and the (sure bet behemont) incoming sales of the ps3 pretty much confirm that.
Go ahead MOD my day!
More opinions here
Pikmin, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars, Nintendogs, Wario Ware, Electroplanktin, Kirby's canvas curse, etc. are all excellent games that are nothing like any other game you can get on any other platform. Whether Sony or Microsoft Fanboys like to admit it or not, Nintendo has been inventing far more genres and pushing the industry more than any other company;
You give Nintendo more credit than they deserve. Most of those games you mention do not represent the origin of a genre. Advance Wars, for instance, is clearly derived from the classic computer war game Empire. Likewise, Battalion Wars is nothing new. Pikmin is simply a minor evolution of the real-time strategy game. Nintendogs is clearly descended from both Tamagotchi and Dogz. Wario Ware is little more than an old fashioned Atari 2600 cartridge (22 games in one!) dressed up in a prettier package - only difference is, back then we didn't call them "mini-games". Electroplankton is just a more focused (and themed) version of a light-synth.
Now don't get me wrong - Nintendo has made HUGE contributions to the evolution and refinement nearly every game genre out there, and I'm looking forward to the Revolution as much as even the most hardcore Nintendo fanboy. I simply want to set the facts straight on a few common misconceptions.
Oh, and BTW - GoldenEye was made by Rare, not Nintendo.
Must... think up... something... clever!
Read the comments to the article in your link. While I hope every classic game will be free I highly doubt it will be so. If Nintendo does have a few games available for free at system launch it would be a huge feature for the Revolution. Let's just keep our fingers crossed.
but rather consider "mature games" and "multi-player first person shooters" interchangable.
That's a stupid thing to do. Not only do they not mean the same thing, but they're not even guarenteed to imply the other.
Don't be quick to discount Nintendo's influence; they have quite the history of changing controllers forever. Their previous innovations include the d-pad (Game & Watch), shoulder buttons (SNES), the analog stick (N64), expansion ports (N64), and rumble (N64).
Sigh. How many times a week does this need to be hashed out?
First: Nintendo did not invent the analog joystick, these go all the way back to the 60's at least, when they were hand built by college students to play Space War. As for using them on consoles, I believe the Emerson Arcadia (1980) was first in the USA, and that console is just a rebadge of one that originated overseas anyway. And as an FYI, it really isn't an analog stick anyway. It merely seems analog - like a mouse.
Second: Nintendo may have invented the rumble pack, but not the idea. It was really just a poor man's version of force feedback, which was first used in the Atari arcade game "Hard Drivin'" - and to be honest was probably in use elsewhere before then. Come to think of it, pinball machines used a "knocker" to similair ends as the rumble pack. Plus the technology of the rumble was also nothing special - it's just a vibrating pager plugged into a game controller
Third: The D-pad may be a Nintendo design, but it really is just a less sophisticated version of the Intellivision's control disc (which featured twice the directional sensitivity of a D-pad).
I will concede, however, that in true Nintendo form, they did make these ideas REALLY count in the console realm where the true originators either failed, or lacked the initiative to even try. I'm not trying to knock Nintendo down, just clear up some common misinformation.
BTW, why did you even bother to mention the controller expansion ports, when Nintendo themselves abandoned the idea after using it only once? Personally, I liked the idea, but adding the ports makes controllers MUCH more expensive.
Must... think up... something... clever!
Heh, by that logic, a multiplayer, first person shooter starring the rugrats using waterguns would be considered mature.
just some guy
Goldeneye was made by Rare, a company that was owned almost in its entirety by Nintend until they sold it to Microsoft. Before Rare was sold, almost every single person who had actually been on the creative and technical teams for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark formed a company called Free Radical Design, which makes Timesplitters, a game which has had 2 sequels, and can be purchased for any of the 3 available consoles.
just some guy
I think he mentioned them because they added them back for the Revolution. The revmote will have controller expansion ports so that additional control types can be added.
just some guy
The lack of 3rd party support is purely the customers' fault. The Gamecube had massive 3rd party support for the 1st two years it was out. But when they compared how many games they sold on other systems compared to on the cube, they gave up making games for it. The more systems that are out there, the more likely a company will make a game for it, because they stand to make more money, even with a lower sell through rate. A 95% sell through rate on a game made on the cube is great, but still nets you less overall sales than a 35% sell through rate on a PS2 game.
just some guy
The respwaning thing isn't a fair comparison with other games... Metroid Prime is the only FPS that I know of that lets you go back to any area that you have previously been to. What would be a better solution? I will admit that the Space Pirates got a bit annoying, though.
Although there isn't much of a story, MP has very interesting environments... every room was unique and well modeled (and even named). Halo is bland in comparison.
### What would be a better solution?
One solution would be random respawning, ie. don't respawn the very same enemies in the same positions over and over again, but have multiple enemy formations per room and spawn only one of them at random, so that leaving and reentering a room doesn't give you the same formation. There also shouldn't be any enemy-locked rooms, ie. those rooms where you have to kill everything to open a door, while those might make sense on a pirate attack, they make absolutly no sense with respawned enemies, they just annoy. Many enemy types (pirates) should also not respawn at all, they should be handled more like mini-bosses, ie. fight them once and see them never again. I am also not sure if you really lose much if you simply don't respawn most enemies at all, after a while you have enough energie tanks that most enemies are zero danger to you, you can just ignore them, they only annoy you, so a ignored enemy would be much different from a non-existing one. Last not least it would also help if he world would be designed more 'alive', the Metroid world feels like a fishtank, everything is well designed and build up, but thats also how it feels, it doesn't feel like a living planet, it feels like a artificial construction. A simple example would be for example some crashes space ship, I never got the feeling that it was a ship, from the outside it was mostly covered in fog if I remember correctly and from the inside it simply looked like just another room, only this time with a metalic theme. Now if one would have seen that ship flying around before, seen it crashing, seen it down below from a high cliff and if the internals of the ship would be more logically arange things might have felt different, but thats not what Metroid did.
Overall I think a Metroid more in the style of Ico would be something I would enjoy, not the third person view, even so I wouldn't mind that, but the level design. In Ico you also run through basically a single large level, however unless in Metroid you have far less back tracking to do and that backtracking that is in there is actually interesting, since often have places which you could already see, but only visit quite a while later in the game. In Ico you also had a much more persistant impression of the castle, the castle felt real and huge, Metroid on the other side is all indoor, even the outdoor environments are just rooms with a skybox. In the whole Metroid game you never stand high on a hill and look down to all those areas that you have already mastered, in Ico however you do exactly that (what, not a hill, but a high point in the castle) quite often. In Metroid backtracking feels more like repetition, it however should feel more like 'being home' again.
So in the end, yes, Prime might have captured many of the aspects of the 2D Metroids, but for me at least that isn't enough, since many of those just don't work for me in 3D, I would have prefered a larger more realistic world to explore than that fishtank design that it had.
Wait... Have you ever even used the control disk for Intellivision. I still have 2 full systems and 80 games in my basement, but you'd have to be on crack to have the d-pad and Intellivision disk in the same sentence. The Intellivision was a fantastic system, but the disk was probably the worst controller of it's generation in terms of ergonomics.
Nintendo isn't the number 1 console since the NES, the Genesis and SNES were close to neck and neck
t ainment_System
_ Genesis
Worldwide Nintendo owned the console market with the SNES:
"Nintendo claims they have sold 49 million Super NES units worldwide"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Nintendo_Enter
"The Sega Mega Drive sold 30 million units worldwide - including 22 million in the United States alone"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Mega_Drive/Sega
People often get this wrong because in the United States the Sega Genesis sold equally as well as the Super Nintendo; In Japan and the rest of the world the Super Nintendo Entertainment system sold (almost) on a 3-1 ratio compared to the Sega Genesis. A good way to think of it is like the XBox vs. the PS2; in North America the XBox actually sold close to 3/4 as many systems as the PS2 has, in Japan the PS2 sells hundreds of times as many systems and in the rest of the world the PS2 has sold close to twice as many units (over all the PS2 sold approximately 2-3 times as may units).
Wait... Have you ever even used the control disk for Intellivision. I still have 2 full systems and 80 games in my basement, but you'd have to be on crack to have the d-pad and Intellivision disk in the same sentence. The Intellivision was a fantastic system, but the disk was probably the worst controller of it's generation in terms of ergonomics.
I currently own a pair of Intellivisions myself - and have probably owned a total of 6 or 7 my lifetime.
I agree that the Nintendo d-pad is a huge improvement over the Intelly's disk, but it is still the same basic concept - a flat controller, operated with your thumbs.
Must... think up... something... clever!
>
That may be true if Sony and Microsoft were both only in the game biz. Both companies can and, from the looks of it, will spend billions to own a part of your livingroom. Nintendo wants to sell you games, Microsoft/Sony wants your eyes.
That said, I think Nintendo will stay around for a while longer. :)
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
Thank you for pointing that out.