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What's New With IE, Firefox, Opera

prostoalex writes "The Web browser market hasn't seen the competition heat up for a while, but things are getting quite exciting, PC World reports. The magazine looks into the latest features that are incorporated into Microsoft's Internet Explorer, Mozilla Foundation's Firefox and Opera Software's Opera. From the article: "We took Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1, Firefox 1.5 Release Candidate 1, and Opera 9 Preview 1 out for a spin. Both the Firefox beta and the Opera beta are available for download, although Opera isn't publicizing this early testing version; the browsers' final editions should be out around the time you read this. On the other hand, the IE 7 beta will not be available for downloading until early next year.""

18 of 542 comments (clear)

  1. Regardless of which..... by xystren · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it really doesn't matter to me, just as long as it's w3c compliant.

    1. Re:Regardless of which..... by Kelson · · Score: 5, Informative

      it really doesn't matter to me, just as long as it's w3c compliant.

      Heh. Hah. HA HAHA HAHAHA!

      *ahem*

      Sorry about that.

      "W3C Compliant" is much easier to define for a website than for a web browser. Why? A compliant website uses only features defined in the W3C specs, or only uses other features in ways that will gracefully degrade in compliant browsers (though some purists will object to the latter definition).

      For a browser, does it mean something that implements every part of a W3C standard? Or one that implements part of a standard but makes sure not to contradict it anywhere? Is it OK if it implements nonstandard features like those used in AJAX? And which standards? HTML, CSS and JavaScript/ECMAScript are a good start, but what about SVG? XHTML? XForms?

      The specs are complex enough that there still is no web browser that implements all of even the current versions of HTML/CSS/JavaScript. At best, you can measure relative compliance, in which case Firefox and company, Opera, and Safari are all well ahead of even IE7. But waiting for a "W3C Compliant" browser is going to take a while.

    2. Re:Regardless of which..... by VagaStorm · · Score: 5, Funny

      You expected msn.com to be w3c compliant? *sight* I can almost remember when I was that young and naive.

    3. Re:Regardless of which..... by masklinn · · Score: 5, Informative

      ECMAScript is an ECMA standard, not a W3C standard.

      DOM and Javascript DOM bindings, on the other hand, are W3C standards.

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
    4. Re:Regardless of which..... by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "W3C Compliant" is much easier to define for a website than for a web browser.

      So true. That's true actually for any standard. Furthermore, it's incredible how many small spots are left uncovered by specifics, and result in browsers implementing their own interpretation. Quite often, you've guessed it, they turn out different behavior.

      Take the HTTP header that specifies the name of the file to be downloaded. The spec only says "it must be in ASCII". Fine. I feed it UTF, Explorer treats it as garbage, Mozilla et al. interprets it as UTF. That's one case. I urlencode it, Explorer decodes it and shows the UTF chars, Mozilla et al. presents it with the % codes still in place. Again, bummer.

      Both cases, one of them did something wrong and the other something good. Actually, it's not even a case of absolute "good or bad", it's more about taking the liberty to expand upon the specs. What's not explicitly forbidden is allowed, right?

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    5. Re:Regardless of which..... by jrumney · · Score: 5, Informative
      The spec only says "it must be in ASCII". Fine. I feed it UTF

      In both cases you did something wrong, and the browsers either did something to try and salvage things, or followed the spec and gave you garbage. If anything, I'd expect non-ASCII text in headers to be encoded as per RFC-2047, but I doubt any browsers implement that.

      What's not explicitly forbidden is allowed, right?

      Non-ASCII text in headers is explicitly forbidden.

  2. Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Firefox still has major performance bugs affecting the display of Flash, memory consumption, and others. They don't get fixed because they aren't ego-boosters like other pet projects. Wish there was a commercial interest in charge of fixing bugs over there.

    1. Re:Whatever by Comics · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Arguably, Microsoft has a commercial interest in Internet Explorer and look at how that has worked out...

    2. Re:Whatever by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 5, Funny

      I would probably get flame for saying this.

      MS DOS is more stable than DR DOS.

      Seriously, I use them both equally and, frankly, MS DOS crashes once per day while DR DOS crashes _at least_ twice a day. Compare to MS DOS, where Windows 3.11 loads perfectly on it, DR DOS takes forever to load it _and still reqiuires config.sys gymnastics_, AND squeeze every last bit of ram out of my machine.

      I have to restart DR DOS once per hour or else my comp freezes like a banana in the mid-winter Arctic.

      Yes this is a rant, so please, Digital Research, do something about your horrible WFW incompatibilities that existed for as long as I could remember.

      *Burn karma burn baby*

      PS. Use a non-shit OS, retard.

    3. Re:Whatever by Dr.Syshalt · · Score: 5, Informative

      By default FF decides itself how much RAM it uses. You can limit the RAM cache either in user.js - add the following string

      user_pref("browser.cache.memory.capacity", 10240);

      ...or just install FasterFox extension - it will allow you to modify RAM amount it uses for cache. I run FF 1.5RC here for several hours (yes, on Windows XP - I didn't even check it memory footprint on Linux since it simply doesn't bother me) - it uses 44MB of RAM which, I guess, is ok for me.

  3. Both Opera And Firefox Support SVG by sysrpl · · Score: 5, Informative

    Both Opera and Firefox are rolling native SVG support into their browser. If you are unfamiliar with SVG, this site.

    http://svg.codebot.org/

  4. Re:Opera by John_Booty · · Score: 5, Funny

    I told DarkSin here that I am not about to port LeetKey to Opera because I am not using it at the moment, I may just have to do that if I decide to switch to that browser if I feel that FF is just not what I want to see as a browser.

    Okay. Fair enough. Let's see what "LeetKey" is...

    LeetKey is similar to Russ Key... this extension allows typing and transliterating English into 1337 and other encoding schemes such as ROT13, Base64, HEX, URL etc. For some encodings this extension will translate the text back into English

    Wow. What a blow it will be to Firefox if you drop active development of that. Christ.

    --

    OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
  5. I'm getting tired of this by yootje · · Score: 5, Funny

    They are only browsers! A piece of software where you can check out websites with! They are not that important, you see. Dude.

  6. Re:Opera? by Kelson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Opera stays in the web browser headlines for the same reason that Apple stays in the PC headlines: They keep pushing the envelope. Opera's pioneered a lot of browser UI -- mouse gestures, MDI, integrated search boxes. Back in 2000 you could take two Opera subwindows, link them together, and have all links from one window open in the other. There's probably a Firefox extension somewhere, but I can't think of another browser that does that. And while they weren't the first to implement CSS, the main author of the original spec, Håkon Wium Lie, has been an Opera exec for 5 or 6 years.

    So sure, they don't have the marketshare, particularly not in the web audience as a whole -- but they've got a large chunk of mindshare within the browser community.

  7. Re:What competition? by theapodan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Actually, with Opera's "wand" feature, you can fill in the blanks much easier than with firefox's comparable feature.

  8. Shouldn't be that complicated by Blue+Mushroom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would define a W3C compliant browser as a broswer that correctly displays all webpages that pass the W3C validator. If any possible compliant page does not correctly display in the browser, the browser is not 100% compliant. Any broswer that can't correctly display any possible compliant page should only be called partially compliant. Why should it be more complicated than that?

    That probably means that no broswer will ever be 100% compliant, but so what? Just call the browsers what they are so nobody gets misled into thinking they are gauranteed to always see a page correctly if that page passes the validator.

    As far as browsers that implement features outside the standard, I don't understand why the purists would want to count that against the browser's compliancy status. The purpose of a standard is to help maintain interoperability between two independently managed operations. To accomplish this, all a standard has to do is specify a feature set that assures the minimum amount of functionality needed for correct interoperability. Assuming that additional features do not conflict with the specified design parameters of the standard, there is no way that including the extra features would prevent the browser from successfully displaying a validated page. With browser/page interoperability gauranteed, the standard has served its stated purpose, thus additional restrictions would accomplish nothing.

    Anybody see standards as having a different purpose?
    Why would anybody (aside from the developer trying to make a product seem better than it is) want to call a browser compliant if it only correctly displays a subset of all possible validated pages?
    Why would anybody insist on the noncompliant label for a browser that implemented extra features that had no effect on a validated page?

    --

    "Humanity lives and dies by its capabilities of communication, or lack thereof."

    1. Re:Shouldn't be that complicated by Kelson · · Score: 5, Funny
      As far as browsers that implement features outside the standard, I don't understand why the purists would want to count that against the browser's compliancy status.

      You haven't read many arguments over ActiveX, have you?

  9. Firefox unfriendly to European languages by bjornte · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Starting in Q3 2006, Firefox is likely to break on the following sites:
    Norway: http://www.elkjop.no/
    Finland: http://www.gigantti.fi/
    Denmark: http://www.elgiganten.dk/
    Iceland: http://www.elko.is/
    Norway: http://www.lefdal.com/
    Poland: http://www.electroworld.pl/
    Czech R: http://www.electroworld.cz/
    Hungary: http://www.electroworld.hu/
    Sweden: http://www.pccity.se/
    This is because Firefox does not support soft hyphenation, a six year old bug that breaks the HTML 4.0 specification.

    German, Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Hungarian, Bulgarian and several other European languanges differ from English in the way that nouns are joined into one word. This often makes for very long words.

    Example: "Noun joining example" in Norwegian is "Substantivsammensettingseksempel". True, this is a very long word, but the effect happens all the time.

    We are preparing a new version of several big-brand European online stores using the same technological foundation. For these stores, many of whom are market leaders in their respective countries, we wish to use a layout where 3 products are shown side by side, with teaser text to the right of a teaser image. This demands that text columns are no more than 80 pixels wide, and this, again, demands soft hyphenation. IE, Safari and Opera supports this, but alas, Firefox does not.

    A pity really. Firefox is our default development browser because of an otherwise acceptable standards implementation.