The MPAA filed a lawsuit against Apple this morning, citing massive revenue losses due to the new Apple DVR.
Re:In other news...
by
God'sDuck
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
one wonders what irritating DRM Apple will put in
True...although considering that the mac mini isn't all that much bigger than a VHS tape, if all i wanted to do was tape something and bring it to a friend's house, even if they drm'd it to death i could conceivably just pick up my whole pvr and take it with me everywhere. intriguiging...
Re:In other news...
by
Tim+Browse
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· Score: 5, Funny
I used to not watch TV, but I found I was spending so much time telling other people (who didn't want to know) about how I don't watch TV, that it took up less time just to watch the damn TV instead.
Re:In other news...
by
timeOday
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· Score: 4, Insightful
True...although considering that the mac mini isn't all that much bigger than a VHS tape
But the Mac Mini as we know it is not a PVR. The obvious problem (mentioned in the article) is the use of laptop hard drives, a very bad choice for a PVR. Then they need somewhere to put a tuner for analog signals, and hardware video compression circuitry. They need a digital audio out, plus composite, s-video, and hopefully component video outputs. In other words, of all the specialized requirements for a PVR, the Mac Mini hardly meets any of them, and doesn't have any room inside for expansion.
Besides, I doubt Apple would try to push portability in a PVR design anyways. They'd probably rather people use the video iPod for that.
Re:Name sounds familiar
by
ergo98
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
If they keep that name for production, I have a feeling these guys may have an issue with it. But I guess the way justice works in the US, whoever has more money is right, so Apple shouldn't be worried.
When's the last time a code name was also used for the retail product? I can't remember that ever happening. It's a "code name" for a reason - the developers and designers needed something to call it, without the hassle of all of the due diligence and legal work.
For a media center to really work, it needs to be anointed by the cable and satellite companies: If it's unable to work with the digital EDTV and digital HDTV signals on their networks, with all of their DRM, then it is close to useless. Microsoft recently got that blessing, though apparently it won't be supported in retail deliveries until next Christmas.
The excuse I need.
by
Shivetya
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· Score: 4, Interesting
To own a Mac is to have it give me some functionality I cannot easily derive from my Windows PC in a format that doesn't collide with my entertainment center.
I would like to have a Mac around to experience OS/X but I don't need it and therefor have no reason to spend the money. Make it do something useful for me that I would have to already spend money to have and then I can consider it.
Yeah I know TiVO is big, my friends have them. I also see MCE and some Linux solutions. The first is proprietary and the other two require work on my end to have something that both looks decent and might actually work.
If Apple can deliver a PVR that also allows me to dabble with OS/X who knows where it might lead. The big IF is, will they price it for the market or let their ego do the pricing?
-- *
Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Re:The excuse I need.
by
utexaspunk
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Yeah I know TiVO is big, my friends have them. I also see MCE and some Linux solutions. The first is proprietary and the other two require work on my end to have something that both looks decent and might actually work.
So you dismissed the TiVo because it's proprietary and yet would like a DVR from Apple? I seriously doubt whatever Apple releases will be any less proprietary than TiVo...
Re:The excuse I need.
by
soft_guy
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Apple used to have the best support in the business, hands down. Support that today you would marvel at. Amazing support.
At the exact same time, people were abandoning Apple in droves for competitors who had lousy support.
So, you can't blame Apple for bad support. You have to blame the invisible hand of the free market.
--
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Apple iProduct. You'll buy it. And you'll like it.
by
voice_of_all_reason
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Reminds me of the line "What is it? We're not saying yet, but that won't stop you from posting about it on every message board you have access to."
1) I doubt this thing will be fast enough to transcode a TV show in a timeframe deemed acceptable to Apple's high QA standards.
Apple has a QA standard to tv transcoding? The closest thing I can think of is an iDVD encoding which can take hours on my dual 1.8Ghz. I'm sure that a mac mini can transcode a tv show to low res in less than hours. Hell, even with the hardware that's in the little boxes now shows could almost be transcoded on the fly. How is that not good enough?
2) Revenue sources (why would anyone buy what they can set their shiny new Apple PVR to record?)
The same reason people with tivos still buy DVDs, extra content. If you refer to the music store, then I submit that their ultimate goal is to be the content distribution medium for videos and shows that *aren't* on network television. Think of Star Trek: Beyond; now replace Star Trek with New, Brilliantly Written, Made by the Viewer tv show. Such a beast could never hope to reach a market via television unless they were very lucky; but now anyone can make a show and get it on iTunes.
3) Fear of getting sued.
Silly. It would be no more than a portable tivo.
It's good, but...
by
ian_mackereth
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· Score: 5, Funny
I hate the way that it keeps charging me 99c every time a music track plays in the background...
At least it won't have some of the annoying features of Windows Media. I hate it when Clippy appears and says "You seem to be watching pro wrestling. Shall I e-order beer and pizza for you?"
Re:It's good, but...
by
cmossell
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· Score: 5, Funny
"...Shall I e-order beer and pizza for you?"
I wish clippy did anything as useful as suggesting beer and pizza.
MythTV already runs on Mac OS X
by
JonTurner
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· Score: 5, Informative
The Myth front-end (the part used for viewing) already runs on the Mac. It's the back-end, the part with encodes video streams, that is not yet ported.
Mini-mac PVR
by
dvdungeon
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· Score: 5, Informative
I'm already using my mini-mac as a pvr. Mini-mac, plus eyeTV (via firewire) plus 21" lcd = pvr. It does recording, live pause thingy, editing, plays dvds and music. I use an external 160 usb drive for recording, and can archive to dvd. The eyetv software gets listings from the internet.
Not bad for a quite little box.
Matt
-- oops...
Re:Mini-mac PVR
by
Golias
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Likewise. The EyeTV 500 is a nice little HD tuner that lets the mini do the work of a PVR, along with all the other usual stuff.
Since I use a projection system and don't really need my media computer to be teeny-tiny, I'm actually replacing it this week with a refurb G5 tower. The mini is going into my music studio rack as a headless digital audio processor. Versitile little gadgets, those minis.
--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Name sounds familiar
by
ergo98
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· Score: 4, Informative
Uh...Tiger?
Tiger's real code-name was Slate. Apple was playing a bit of a game, and choosing actual retail names that they publicly disseminated as "code names". Of course they could be doing it with this product, but the instant hit on a competing product proves that close to impossible.
Kaleidoscope
by
derniers
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· Score: 5, Informative
way back when Kaleidoscope was a nifty UI app for OS 9 and the guy who wrote it (Greg Landweber) went to work for Apple
Kaleidoscope "skins" were unreal -- take a look
by
ianscot
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· Score: 5, Informative
Greg Landweber ascended to the mother ship? Decent example of Apple taking on someone whose main product Jobs didn't really agree with. Steve-o has never much liked the custom "skins" idea, and basically killed it with OS X.
For those who aren't familiar, the old Kaleidoscope gave you the ability to drop "skins" over the OS 9 finder and OS, to the point where you could go with a complete BeOS or any number of completely outlandish looks and feels.
Half of the results weren't amazingly useful, exactly, but it was so easy to develop a new scheme that you could easily tinker around and produce yout own flavor. The archive of schemes pretty much says it all.
-- "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Re:Why build when...
by
renderhead
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· Score: 4, Informative
TiVo negotiated nothing. They're just incorporating the technology to automatically convert the video they record into a format that the iPod supports (which is completely open - simply MPEG-4 video that fits within certain dimensions). A nice feature, but they didn't require or receive Apple's cooperation.
-- I wish that my inferiority complex were as good as yours.
-RenderHead
This is interesting...
by
Fahrvergnuugen
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· Score: 4, Informative
There is software available as part of the Apple FireWire SDK that lets you record MPEG2 streams direct from a firewire enabled cable box. Hmmm....
Disappointed by Mac Mini as entertainment center
by
Cereal+Box
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· Score: 5, Insightful
This may be a little offtopic, but I just wanted to share my disappointment in using the Mac Mini as an entertainment center (didn't even bother with the DVR stuff).
Cost -- the Mac Mini is a little expensive. But that's OK, I had originally bought it as a general-purpose desktop, and later decided to it a shot as an entertainment center and having constant problems with my Windows entertainment center.
Audio -- the only decent 5.1 audio solutions for the Mini are USB or Firewire hardware from M-Audio. The cheapest one I could find that does proper AC3 passthrough was something like $80-$100, and it was just some cheezy little USB thing! Turtle Beach sells pretty much the same thing for $20, and it works on the Mac, but without the AC3 passthrough (if you're curious, AC3 passthrough works on Windows). Oh, and let's not forget, the M-Audio units require you to do a manual AC3/PCM selection! I.e., you can't just go from listening to MP3s to 5.1 sound when watching a movie unless you manually change the output format. Geez.
Video -- the DVI connection works great on my HDTV. Unfortunately, I have to shell out $20 for a program that will allow me to set the Mini's display resolution to 1280x768 (the TVs native resolution). VGA is not an option, because my TV will do image realignment every time I switch back to the VGA input, and if I'm watching 4:3 pillarboxed material, the image will be shifted quite a bit to the left.
Remotes -- The only IR remote I could find was the crappy Keyspan remote. That thing has only like 20 buttons! You've really got to get creative if you want this thing to control your entertainment center. And before you ask, I can't use the ATI Remote Wonder because it's an RF remote, and I want to use my IR universal remote to control the Mini.
Software -- By far the worst offender. CenterStage just plain didn't work with my ripped DVDs (a series of VIDEO_TS folders on a share). Matinee didn't seem to work either. I wasn't going to bother with MythTV (way too much hassle on OS X). There really is a stunning lack of passable frontend software for the Mac. It's a shame, really.
These are all the problems I ran into, and I can't imagine how much trouble it would've been getting emulators to work in addition to movies/music (none of the frontends seemed to support emulators).
So to all those that think the Mac Mini is a good entertainment center choice, I say think again! It's really expensive, the software is terrible, and the hardware issues are a real pain. You know what I did recently? Spent far less money on an XBox and put XBMC on it. It works just the way I expect it to, and with a lot less hassle!
Re:The famous butt-head astronomer
by
coinreturn
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· Score: 4, Insightful
In partial defense of Carl, let the record show that Apple was designing three PowerMacs right then:
PM 6100: codename Piltdown Man, famous archaeology hoax
PM 7100: codename Sagan
PM 8100: codename Cold Fusion, overhyped physics flop du jour
In his place, I'd also be unhappy about the implication of being placed in between those two.
That's one take on things. Another is to note that the PM6100/7100/8100 were the first Macs to be powered by the PowerPC - a major evolution for Macs (first processor family change). Piltdown man was supposed to be the missing link that would revolutionalize the theories of evolution, whereas Cold Fusion was supposed to revolutionalize power generation. Did Carl Sagan revolutionalize physics? Well, he certainly brought it to the masses.
Still, it was a friggin' internal codename. I'm glad he lost the suit (and the BHA suit).
Re:all-important?
by
timeOday
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Really wouldn't say that iPod integration is "all important". It would certainly be a nice touch with elegant Apple style, but the value add is maybe 10 bucks max.
The iPod is Apple's #1 springboard into content distribution. How much does the value of the high-margin video iPod go up if you can simply drop it on your DVR and automatically get all your selected programming to go, with no further hassle?
Compared to dedicated products like TiVo, an Apple PVR could have a lot to offer if it is not a closed, locked-down system. Provide a high-quality usable product up-front, but in addition turn the user base loose and see what they come up with. Remember, Apple did not invent podcasting.
Would an Apple PVR go anywhere Microsoft's media PC hasn't already gone? Since Apple already has content distribution deals with major players like ABC, I'd say it's a possibility. Hardly anybody even knows that Microsoft has its own music-store competitor to iTunes.
Re:The famous butt-head astronomer
by
coinreturn
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Okay, so the PM7100 wasn't the greatest machine they ever made. You have to admit that their changing to a completely new processor was an amazing accomplishment - fat binaries, 68K emulation/translation. That successful transition is the only thing that makes investors and users believe that the Intel switch is even possible.
Re:Disappointed by Mac Mini as entertainment cente
by
ElectroBot
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· Score: 5, Informative
Audio -- the only decent 5.1 audio solutions for the Mini are USB or Firewire hardware from M-Audio. The cheapest one I could find that does proper AC3 passthrough was something like $80-$100, and it was just some cheezy little USB thing!
Last year I bought myself a Creative Soundblaster MP3+ (paid around $42 US then, its $36 now with FREE ship). The device works great with my iBook G4 and provides me with 1/8", 2 RCA, and OPTICAL inputs and outputs. When connected to the iBook it doesn't require any drivers and all the outputs are recognized under Mac OS X 10.3 and 10.4.
Slashdot Mirror
Dont forget the all important iPod dock which was left out at last minute from the PPC version
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The MPAA filed a lawsuit against Apple this morning, citing massive revenue losses due to the new Apple DVR.
If they keep that name for production, I have a feeling these guys may have an issue with it. But I guess the way justice works in the US, whoever has more money is right, so Apple shouldn't be worried.
When's the last time a code name was also used for the retail product? I can't remember that ever happening. It's a "code name" for a reason - the developers and designers needed something to call it, without the hassle of all of the due diligence and legal work.
For a media center to really work, it needs to be anointed by the cable and satellite companies: If it's unable to work with the digital EDTV and digital HDTV signals on their networks, with all of their DRM, then it is close to useless. Microsoft recently got that blessing, though apparently it won't be supported in retail deliveries until next Christmas.
To own a Mac is to have it give me some functionality I cannot easily derive from my Windows PC in a format that doesn't collide with my entertainment center.
I would like to have a Mac around to experience OS/X but I don't need it and therefor have no reason to spend the money. Make it do something useful for me that I would have to already spend money to have and then I can consider it.
Yeah I know TiVO is big, my friends have them. I also see MCE and some Linux solutions. The first is proprietary and the other two require work on my end to have something that both looks decent and might actually work.
If Apple can deliver a PVR that also allows me to dabble with OS/X who knows where it might lead. The big IF is, will they price it for the market or let their ego do the pricing?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Reminds me of the line "What is it? We're not saying yet, but that won't stop you from posting about it on every message board you have access to."
this is an obvious step... it better be able to sync with a video ipod.
Seriously, who cares about "Watching their music"
I hate the way that it keeps charging me 99c every time a music track plays in the background... At least it won't have some of the annoying features of Windows Media. I hate it when Clippy appears and says "You seem to be watching pro wrestling. Shall I e-order beer and pizza for you?"
The Myth front-end (the part used for viewing) already runs on the Mac. It's the back-end, the part with encodes video streams, that is not yet ported.
http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/MythOnMacOsx
I'm already using my mini-mac as a pvr. Mini-mac, plus eyeTV (via firewire) plus 21" lcd = pvr. It does recording, live pause thingy, editing, plays dvds and music. I use an external 160 usb drive for recording, and can archive to dvd. The eyetv software gets listings from the internet. Not bad for a quite little box. Matt
oops...
Uh...Tiger?
Tiger's real code-name was Slate. Apple was playing a bit of a game, and choosing actual retail names that they publicly disseminated as "code names". Of course they could be doing it with this product, but the instant hit on a competing product proves that close to impossible.
way back when Kaleidoscope was a nifty UI app for OS 9 and the guy who wrote it (Greg Landweber) went to work for Apple
For those who aren't familiar, the old Kaleidoscope gave you the ability to drop "skins" over the OS 9 finder and OS, to the point where you could go with a complete BeOS or any number of completely outlandish looks and feels.
Half of the results weren't amazingly useful, exactly, but it was so easy to develop a new scheme that you could easily tinker around and produce yout own flavor. The archive of schemes pretty much says it all.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
TiVo negotiated nothing. They're just incorporating the technology to automatically convert the video they record into a format that the iPod supports (which is completely open - simply MPEG-4 video that fits within certain dimensions). A nice feature, but they didn't require or receive Apple's cooperation.
I wish that my inferiority complex were as good as yours.
-RenderHead
There is software available as part of the Apple FireWire SDK that lets you record MPEG2 streams direct from a firewire enabled cable box. Hmmm....
Check here, here and here: [use this link: http://machdtvtimer.home.comcast.net/%5D for more info.
Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
These are all the problems I ran into, and I can't imagine how much trouble it would've been getting emulators to work in addition to movies/music (none of the frontends seemed to support emulators).
So to all those that think the Mac Mini is a good entertainment center choice, I say think again! It's really expensive, the software is terrible, and the hardware issues are a real pain. You know what I did recently? Spent far less money on an XBox and put XBMC on it. It works just the way I expect it to, and with a lot less hassle!
In partial defense of Carl, let the record show that Apple was designing three PowerMacs right then:
PM 6100: codename Piltdown Man, famous archaeology hoax
PM 7100: codename Sagan
PM 8100: codename Cold Fusion, overhyped physics flop du jour
In his place, I'd also be unhappy about the implication of being placed in between those two.
That's one take on things. Another is to note that the PM6100/7100/8100 were the first Macs to be powered by the PowerPC - a major evolution for Macs (first processor family change). Piltdown man was supposed to be the missing link that would revolutionalize the theories of evolution, whereas Cold Fusion was supposed to revolutionalize power generation. Did Carl Sagan revolutionalize physics? Well, he certainly brought it to the masses.
Still, it was a friggin' internal codename. I'm glad he lost the suit (and the BHA suit).
Compared to dedicated products like TiVo, an Apple PVR could have a lot to offer if it is not a closed, locked-down system. Provide a high-quality usable product up-front, but in addition turn the user base loose and see what they come up with. Remember, Apple did not invent podcasting.
Would an Apple PVR go anywhere Microsoft's media PC hasn't already gone? Since Apple already has content distribution deals with major players like ABC, I'd say it's a possibility. Hardly anybody even knows that Microsoft has its own music-store competitor to iTunes.
Okay, so the PM7100 wasn't the greatest machine they ever made. You have to admit that their changing to a completely new processor was an amazing accomplishment - fat binaries, 68K emulation/translation. That successful transition is the only thing that makes investors and users believe that the Intel switch is even possible.
Audio -- the only decent 5.1 audio solutions for the Mini are USB or Firewire hardware from M-Audio. The cheapest one I could find that does proper AC3 passthrough was something like $80-$100, and it was just some cheezy little USB thing!
4 60630-4949731?v=glance&n=172282&n=507846&s=electro nics&v=glance
Last year I bought myself a Creative Soundblaster MP3+ (paid around $42 US then, its $36 now with FREE ship). The device works great with my iBook G4 and provides me with 1/8", 2 RCA, and OPTICAL inputs and outputs. When connected to the iBook it doesn't require any drivers and all the outputs are recognized under Mac OS X 10.3 and 10.4.
Here's the link to the Creative Sounblaster MP3+ on Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000095IMS/102-1