Slashdot Mirror
Linksys Adds Linux WRT54G Model Back
Glenn Fleishman writes "Last month, Slashdot and others wrote about how the Linksys WRT54G, a popular embedded Linux-based Wi-Fi gateway, had switched to VxWorks's OS for its v5 release. Because the WRT54G has become the standard as a cheap commodity device for building your own platform (like Sveasoft, Fon, and many others), this seemed like a big blow to hackers and developers. If you could still manage to flash the device--not sure if that was possible--it had half the RAM and flash of the v4 model. It turns out Linksys wasn't killing the Linux model. They've released it as the WRT54GL with v4.30.0(US) firmware and will sell it under that name for about $70 retail. It's already in stock and the new firmware is on their GPL software download page. Linux sales represent a few percentage points of their overall volume, based on the Linksys product director's remarks. The lesser quantity of RAM puts money back in their pockets on the mainstream model."
Two words for you: power consumption. One more: noise.
Linksys continues to impress. They had a bit of false start when they didn't get the GPL Code out there, but I would say they have really been trying to be good since then.
Re-releasing this marked as a Linux device should be commended. Not only are they selling something that they know people have the intent to modify (which is rare in this day and age), but they are also making it noticable that it runs Linux.
I wish more companies would sell things and be ok with people modifying what they paid money for (MS, Sony, Apple, MPAA,...)
Mentioning percentage of sales with Linux components sounds odd, since until now, their entire line of 54G/GS routers have been embedded Linux, and flash-capable with 3rd party firmware (at least as far back as I've been messing with them). The real numbers will start to show now that they've split the lines between 54G and 54GL...Guess we'll see. I've got three 54GS units running a WDS network (Talisman code) covering about 4 acres between my family members, and it's great. Planning on adding a 15db gain antenna and another unit hopefully very soon...Freedom to do what you want is golden. Hats off to Linksys for allowing it on their hardware.
Anyone know about the possibility of running other operating systems such as OpenBSD on these? Is there any other ports except Linux?
Here at my work at an small local ISP we use small Soekris boards running Freebsd. Not only is this hardware rock solid but running a fully featured distro gives us the ability to easily remotely trouble shoot network connectivity issues or firewall rules, or routing tables from here in the office.
:)
We mount them in outdoor enclosures for use as access points or as small deployable routers/firewalls for fiber set ups.
However they are rather pricey (250 - 450 dollars a pop) so still a lot less than comparable cisco hardware, but still too expensive to drop on the porch of a customer.
The question I've had for a while is whether or not I can as a distributor legaly hack a linksys router and drop our own distro on it, and give those out to customers. At a much more affordable price.
I called linksys the other day but the lady I talked to had no idea and never called me back
~Anders
When I purchased the "new" WRT54G, version 5, I expected a router that would at least have better performance than my old, reliable Pentium-II firewall running Windows 2003 and Routing and Remote Services.
Boy was I wrong. Many sites, such as: http://www.tmobile.com/ http://www.realtor.com/ and http://www.gamespot.com/ all had great difficulty loading. It turns out a **LOT** of other people are having the same problem with the Version 5 WRT54G.
My longstanding issue was finally escalated to Linksys Customer Support (you will be escalated to Customer support after dealing with Technical support). At Customer Support, they RMA'd my v5 router, and replaced it with a v4 router. I demanded that they replace it with a v4 router, and I noted that a *LOT* of people on this bulletin board are having the EXACT same problem.
I have literally spent hours trying to solve this problem on the v5 router. As soon as I plugged the v4 router in, my problems were solved!
Of course, Linksys being a company that enjoys wasting their customers' time by not even admitting a problem, you will be forced to pay for shipping charges. No matter that the item is clearly flawed by engineering defects to begin with. I will never, ever, consider buying a Linksys in the future. What a mistake I made thinking they were a premium brand. The fact that they are going to sell a version that finally works as it should, under a different model number and at a higher price, rather than fix the WRT54G Version 5 tells me that they are not interested in providing a quality product. I hope their strategy blows up in their face!
Can you run an MTA on it? An X server? And if you could, why? Doesn't that go against the "let the firewall be the firewall and not host a bunch of other crap on it"?
:)
.. throw in 2 NE2000 (or similar) ISA based NICs (you've probably thrown them away before .. I have). Then you have a very VERY useful firewall, that DOES a helluva lot more than these little failure prone Linksys devices.
:p
Fair point, but it is more than a firewall, it is ALSO a router. The stock version does not, for example support SNMP (yes, I know about the problems with SNMP) - and, as another poster pointed out, you can custom script IPTables on it. Heck, you can even run SNORT on it, and who knows, possibly HOGWASH.
But lets say you do use it for a mail server, or apache or something else. It consumes VERY little power compared to a PC. It has (at the very least) a 200 mhz MIPS processor. This is more than enough to compensate for light jobs - why pay the power bill on a large PC when you can have a much smaller device to boot? Have you noticed how much room this thing takes up compared to a PC? It also has no fans - it is silent. It lasts FOREVER if you put it on a UPS supply!
If you really wanted a good, cheap firewall, check out Smoothwall. Get a $10 crappy PC
The only failue I have had with one of these so far is that I left the office router on top of one of my CRT's and it started going haywire. I could not figure out why - until I realized being on top of the CRT I was causing it to overheat. The office router runs dd-wrt, and since we have 2 offices, and when the second office phones with problems, instead of running next door, I use SSH. (Sadly, it is usually someone accidentally tripping over the power cord...)
And yes, I used to love the Linksys hardware, but now I have a pile of dead ones from my clients and from personal use. Smoothwall is running and -ZERO- failures as of yet. as long as you dont let it overheat (or run something that is going to wear out the ram), I would guess that one of these would be just as reliable - if not moreso - than a smoothwall PC. (Zero moving parts)
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
This particular real-world test case tells us that you can get rid of Linux and cut your flash and SDRAM requirements in half. (And vxWorks is pretty bloated by comparison to other RTOSes, at that. Their old platform was bested not by the leanest commercial competitor, but the fattest.)
Even with Wind River's per-unit royalties and upfront charges, Linksys finds it necessary to avoid the "free" OS to reduce cost.
What we do with these units is to use custom firmware distro based on OpenWRT for our community wireless network. These units act as a captive portal, and when you login with your username and password, you get a defined level of access with that system.
s sRouterProject
It's all part of the Melbourne Wireless Router Project (MWRP) and is detailed more at:
http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/wiki/?MelbWirele
We currently use it in a number of places, and it can be used in both PC based systems, and the WRT54G APs. This is a great move for us by Linksys.
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
well, Linux or not the simple fact of the matter is, the linux version ones worked very well without mods, and the version 5 routers SUCK ASS, and I tell everyone to return them immediatly and demand a btter version.
They lock up like mad, buckle when you try to save config changes, refuse to do pppoe properly after a few hours of runtime, god, my list of complainst goes on.
I did not know this, but it sure as fuck explains a lot. I don't care if it runs linux or not, I just want it to run right, and the linux versions do so very well. So, the best reason to get all nutty over this, is because the alternative was a piece of crap.
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
Slashdot: where there's a conspiracy in everything.
Because seriously, I want to hear you make the business case for allowing returns on models with flashed firmware. What company wants to tie up their helplines with the clueless newbies who will surely start whining after flashing their firmware.
Photos.
1st- sometimes when a firmware flash goes bad, the hardware is DEAD. not repairable. trash.
for that occurence, a common remedy is going to customer service/support, lying, and asking for an exchange under warranty.
2nd- they could NOT release a router where the firmware is not flashable, and stay competitive.
they've closed the loophole, that undoubtedly cost them money unfairly. I applaud the thought..
I think it's cool because it serves two purposes, keeps hardware out there for hackers (original not media definition)
and keeps them from getting burned for experimental failures for which they shouldn't be responsible.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I still managed to destroy mine. I'm pretty sure the hardware's still good, but I corrupted the CFE on my WRT54GS v3. Does anyone know where I can get it?
Physically, we dont touch the routers. Standard linksys blue box. Since it's 'in house' theres no need to try hide/disguise branding. The wireless security is just plain old WPA with radius authentication done from a freeradius running on the same box that's hosting router firmware packages. And yes, we are moving folks from 'commute' to 'telecommute', with a lot of that being based on using our own routers for the job.
I just installed it and bricked my v2 router after fooling around with it for a few minutes. Thanks, I needed that.
HyperWRT is designed to be pretty much what Linksys provides, but with a few extra features enabled (why Linksys hides these, I dunno). The main feature which I enjoy is the remote Reboot button, although its pretty stable and I don't need to use it much.
Having an early model of the WRT54GS (the speedboost model, with more RAM), my big concern is how many varations of this hardware have been put on the market. Some flashes are model-dependent... even the 'official' ones from the Linksys site. They even seem to sell these things at Sam's Club of all places. But its impossible to tell *just what revision* you're actually getting until you tear open the packaging.
{ - Generic Guy - }