Tivo To Also Offer Ads Your Way

FangVT writes "InfoWorld is reporting that in mid-2006 Tivo will begin allowing subscribers use keyword searches to look for information on specific products or services. The article does not contain much information but ultimately says 'Throwing in lots of hedge words to soften the idea of advertising once again mingling with TV content, TiVo described the service as non-intrusive, relevant, interactive advertising on an opt-in basis.' Tivo's own press release says, 'For the first time, advertisers will have the ability to deliver television advertising, on demand and targeted to consumers, without the limitations of traditional television media placement.'"

Comments

odd

[ajdowntown]

i is funny, the company that first taught us there is life without advertising is the one trying to bring it back full tilt...

Re:odd

[/ASCII]

I love it. It puts the power over the consumers eyeballs even more firmly in the hands of the consumer.

That said, I doubt very many consumers will use this very often.

Re:odd

[Bastian227]

Oddly enough for me, I have seen more commercials now that I have TiVo. Before TiVo, I watched about 2-3 hours (Buffy, Angel, misc) of TV a week because 1) I had to know about a show and its time slot and 2) I had to be willing to adjust my schedule to see it.

With TiVo, I can pick shows and pick when I want to watch them. The result is that I watch more TV, perhaps about 10 hours a week. (It's somewhat lower because both Buffy and Angel are off the air now.)

So, while watching about 5 times more TV, I see 5 times more commercials. Though I fast-forward through them, I still see several frames of each commercial, and that's all the brain needs to see what product they are advertising.

Opt In Choices

[LiquidCoooled]

Tivo Popup

                    [Program] is about to start!

    [Watch it now with adverts] [Do Not Watch it now]

Great more features!

[Bruzer]

Great my Tivo gets another "feature".

I like my Tivo the way it is now. Does anyone know if there is a way to not get any more software updates from the Tivo service?

'Silence is Golden, but Duct tape is Silver' - Stolen sig.

Re:Great more features!

[HTH NE1]

Own a pre-Series2 unit. No-updates comes standard with its service these days.

Undermining their business model?

[indros13]

TiVo should be wary of this decision, for three reasons:

1) The ad service will be opt-in, but how much do they plan on nagging customers to do so? And who wants to be nagged about having ads, anyway, especially if you bought the thing to avoid them?

2) Targeted ads are certainly more effective, as Google has shown, but it's still advertising in a space buyers have come to expect no ads or ad-skipping.

3) TiVo built the entire model of PVR around the ability to skip ads and record shows more simply than on a VCR. They could do serious damage to their brand image if they embrace advertising after professing to help people avoid it.

While I'm glad they plan to make it opt-in and targeted, I'm still skeptical that they'll find profit at the end of the advertising rainbow by alienating their customers.

Re:Undermining their business model?

[DickBreath]

Another very important reason I love my TiVo is: TO SAVE TIME.

Watching ads, of any kind, does not further that goal.

Not only can I can watch Queer Eye at my convenience, but equally importantly, in only 37 minutes.

Towards this end, may I suggest a new TiVo feature: The ability to play back a program at a higher speed, with the audio pitch remaining unchanged. Hey, Kaffeine (in KDE) does it for me all the time, which I find very useful when watching non-pr0n, such as a physics lecture where the speaker talks v e r y - s l o w l y.

Re:Undermining their business model?

[Shakrai]

3) TiVo built the entire model of PVR around the ability to skip ads and record shows more simply than on a VCR. They could do serious damage to their brand image if they embrace advertising after professing to help people avoid it.

They could even more serious damage if they incurred the anger of *AAs by openly attacking the ad based model of TV as you are doing now. I don't think they built the PVR around the ability to skip ads. It was built around the ability to time shift and learn your preferences and automatically record them. Hell, TiVo's big patent (as I understand it) is on the whole thumbs up/down thing. The skipping ads part is a wink and a nudge rather then an advertised ability though. Especially the 30 second skip easter egg.

Mind you, I'm not saying that I didn't buy a TiVo to skip ads. Just that I can appreciate the tight rope they have to walk. If an opt-in service can make them more money AND give the *AAs the impression that they aren't anti-advertisement, then what's the problem?

Re:Undermining their business model?

[the_rev_matt]

Everyone I know that has a TiVO bought it for one reason: time shifting. The ability skip ads is a nice to have, but not a have to have. The ability to watch a show when I have time to instead of having to choose between watching it when it is on or not watching it at all is why I bought a tivo.

I don't get people who seem to find advertising on television and in magazines to be morally reprehensible and an affront to their constitutional rights.

Re:Undermining their business model?

[StereoPC]

Bottom line - Tivo needs revenue - If they don't mold their business model to be able to tweak some cash out of advertisers none of us will have a Tivo. They are still struggling to even nail down a business model that shows a profit. Personally, I view all content they throw on the machine no matter how painful because I know they know I watched it which allows them to show the advertisers - Hey, see how many people watched this other companies ad! Some of it is good - it has shown me stuff I wouldn't have gone looking for and I ended up watching regularly (Nip/Tuck). I will gladly opt-in for targeted adds (keyword searching for an ad is a cool concept too) to be able to keep my Tivo for years to come. I have used the cable providers version of Tivo and they are extremely painful to use ... they just don't compare. I believe Tivo didn't make this decision lightly and will approach this with respect for their customers as they have always done in the past.

Re:Undermining their business model?

[Shakrai]

If they stopped the ability to fast forward they would have a riot on their hands and would lose a lot of customers. I highly doubt they would slay that goose laying the golden egg.

I find the 30 second skip invaluable. With five or six presses I can jump past the commercials -- it takes about two seconds to completely bypass them. If I try to fast forward it then not only will it take more time, but TiVo has that really annoying feature where it backtracks a few seconds after you come out of fast forwarding/rewinding. I've never quite got the hang of the timing on that and if I try to use FF or RW I usually wind up watching the last 10 seconds of a commercial.

It's been my experience that most commercial breaks mesh very well with the 30 second skip button. You get a feel for the channel and show you are watching and can usually predict how many 30 second skips you'll need. The few times that you go past your show you can get back to it with the 8 second replay feature.

Wait, this is news?

[LostCluster]

TiVo has always had the Showcases menu which was mostly supplied with paid-for content from broadcasters and sponsors, and could even contain video clips that were sent over a Discovery Channel late-night infomercial. The only thing here is that a search is being added, as if there's going to be more content than makes sense for a menu now.

Searchable ads on Tivo?

[smooth wombat]

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't the whole purpose of Tivo to allow people to skip ads on tv? What would make someone who subscribes to such a service want to search for ads? Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to not subscribe to Tivo and use a vcr to record shows?

As I said in a reply to a posting yesterday I don't watch commercials or listen to adverstisements. Anywhere at any time. When a show goes to commercial I'll either go to another channel or if nothing else is on hit the mute button, walk away and go do something else for 2+ minutes. I fast forward through commercials on recorded shows. I turn the volume down when there are commercials on the radio. I don't even see billboards on the road anymore my mind has blocked them out.

If I'm going out of my way to avoid advertisements and commercials what would make these folks think I would want to search for commercials?

Re:Searchable ads on Tivo?

[HTH NE1]

What would make someone who subscribes to such a service want to search for ads?

Search

Category: Advertisements
Keyword: "Super Bowl"

Re:Searchable ads on Tivo?

[voice_of_all_reason]

I'll direct you to this helpful timeline for capitalism:

Step 1 - Free, no ads
Step 2 - Free, with ads
Step 3 - Pay, no ads
Step 4 - Pay, with ads

Tivo is between steps 3 and 4 right now. As with every other service, it will soon be at step 4.

Re:Searchable ads on Tivo?

[Znork]

"If I'm going out of my way to avoid advertisements and commercials what would make these folks think I would want to search for commercials?"

Greed? Losing contact with their customer base? With reality?

The current idea of marketing is going to get more or less wiped out by context marketing ranging from google to price-checking sites, simply because marketing to consumers who are actually shopping for a that specific product is vastly more efficient.

While TiVo may have understood that, they unfortunately do not have a relevant delivery system. People watching TV are usually interested in watching TV, not in shopping, therefore advertizing in such a medium would by its nature fall among the less efficient forms of ads. Especially among TiVo owners who are probably even less likely to have an interest in the ads.

Re:Searchable ads on Tivo?

[gallen1234]

Interesting but not universally valid. In fact, it isn't valid for our specific case. Neither Tivo nor television itself were ever in the "Free, no adds" category. If you want a specific example, Ipana toothpaste was one of the first television advertisers.

Re:Searchable ads on Tivo?

[HolyCrapSCOsux]

The internet is a much more efficient way to search for product information than a tivo could ever be. I can't imagine that there are that many people that have the resources to pay for tivo service and not have the internet. Maybe they are helping fuel couchpotatoism by making it more convenient, but unless they attach a mouse to the tive, I can't see that process being anythng but arduous.

Hmm.... drills....
[menu]
down down -> adverts -> [select]
down down -> tools -> [select]
down left down down left left -> [select]
I have 2 (DirecTV)Tivos. 1 HD one SD. The only way I can see a use for this is if the Tivo cut/splice the ad OUT of the show (so I dont have to fast forward) and then throw them in a menu somewhere so I can ignore them and flush occasionally.

MythTv in my future...

[dslauson]

Opt-in targeted advertising is better than being held as a captive audience, but I'm not sure I'm crazy about them using my bandwidth and precious hard drive space to store their ads that I may never watch. I think it's getting close to time for me to try out MythTv. Hmm.

Does this mean ...

[TallMatthew]

... if I have a season pass to Judging Amy, douche ads are going to pop up all over the place?

Um, opt out.

TiVo, the good and the bad

[PlayfullyClever]

I've had my TiVo for over 4 years now. I love it to death. I think that TiVo did a hell of a lot of things right. Some quick examples:

1. Unlike, say, Microsoft, they never discouraged their users from hacking their boxes. As a result, a huge community of TiVo hackers emerged (see http://www.tivocommunity.com/). I upgraded my TiVo's 30 gig hard drive to two 120's, and installed a cachecard/network card combo from 9th Tee, which means I can do fun tricks like scheduling shows and season passes from the road, or watching shows in my bedroom on my XBOX.

2. Really great support. I've only had to call TiVo a couple of times, both for channel lineup issues, but they were always extremely friendly and helpful over the phone. For example, after I moved into my new house, I realized that Adelphia had just upgraded the cable in my area, and TiVo didn't have the lineup yet. So I called support, and the next day, TiVo called me back to tell me that my lineup was added. Simply awesome.

3. Choosing Linux. When I telnet into my TiVo, I get a bash shell. I've installed an ftp server, web server (TiVoWeb), and even installed cron. How cool is that? Plus, this excellent decision has led to new software being developed exclusively for the TiVo (such as a caller id display that uses the TiVo's built-in modem, so you can see who's calling without getting up off the couch). Simply brilliant.

4. The interface. They obviously put a ton of work into it, and it really shows. It just kicks so much ass.

Now obviously, they dropped the ball in a couple of areas. The Comcast merger was just a more recent one. I think these are the two biggies:

1. I think that their biggest problem has always been slow adoption; as long as I've had the thing, I've been seeing ads pop up on TiVo Central giving me hot deals on new TiVo units, which I'm supposed to share with my friends and family. Great, I can save Dad $50 on his new unit. But if they really expect me to convince Dad that he can't live without a season pass on those Seinfeld reruns he loves so much, then they should be giving me the 50 smackers. I'd probably have 10 people signed up under me right now if I got some sort of compensation for it. (By the way, click here [freeminimacs.com] to get a free Mini Mac!):-)

2. Too expensive. The hardware and service together really do cost too much, unless you got in early like I did (back when lifetime service was $200). They should do what my damn cell phone company does: Knock the hardware down to like $99, and make me pay a very affordable $9.95 a month. If I try to cancel before 2 years are up, hit me with some obscene early termination fee. Yes, I hate it when cell phone companies do this, but that's how they stay in business. Besides, it's not like I'd be foolish enough to cancel my TiVo service anyway. TiVo is heroin. So far, I've paid $499 for TiVo and lifetime service, so TiVo won't make any more money off of me. If they were using my above plan, I would have paid in $589 so far, with more coming in every month.

I would really hate to see TiVo go. I hope they don't. But I suspect that even if the service dies, thanks to the openness of their hardware platform, someone (maybe me) will figure out how to write a script to pull show data off of Yahoo! TV or something. And with Microsoft and MythTV and several others entering the PVR market, there's no question that TiVo's invention is here to stay.

It is really great that TiVo is going to offer ads our way, thats the way it should work, and ultimately, lead to better advertising.

Re:TiVo, the good and the bad

[Eccles]

Three years of service at $10 a month isn't $360, it's $10 a month 36 times. And $10 a month is nothing. $200 on the other hand, I would have felt that.

Would you like to borrow $200?

Re:TiVo, the good and the bad

[MarkGriz]

I'm all for the DIY spirit of Myth/Freevo etc, but I can't quite wrap my brain around people claiming Tivo is too expensive, and then building a Myth box instead.

You can get the Tivo box for $50 after rebate, and $299 for lifetime service. Circuit City recently even had the Tivo free after rebate if you ordered it online (with free shipping too).

So basically, it's $350 worst case. How cheaply can you build a Myth box?

Re:TiVo, the good and the bad

[__aayurq3262]

thanks to the openness of their hardware platform, someone (maybe me) will figure out how to write a script to pull show data off of Yahoo! TV or something.

It's been done several times. The Canadians have the most sophisticated system with at least three programs that will pull data with XMLTV from zap2it.com. They all work fine in the U.S. (with the exception of Simplicity that needs to defeat the Canada-IP check). The Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans and a few others have active Tivo groups that use similar or identical software.

Two Way Street...

[dada21]

The video broadcast companies are probably going to need to do a more interactive form of advertising, and I believe that Tivo/Viiv/MCE and other PVR companies will be the ones to promote it. I think I have a decent solution to the conundrum of advertising.

First, advertisers will need to pick a more specific market ("target").

Second, shows will have to become more a la carte. This probably means significant DRM, but there is no "right" to television, so I don't see a way around this. If you want to watch the show "real time" you can pay for it now, or you can wait for it to be released on DVD (or public domain download).

How can you pay for the show? One of three ways:

A. You can use advertising points to watch it. Advertising points are "earned" by watching targeted ads that are pre-downloaded to your Tivo/MCE. These are communicated back to the producer. Maybe a small questionnaire at the end will earn you more points.

B. You can pay for the show up front -- a la carte.

C. You can pay for a subscription to the show for the season.

I don't see any other way for advertising to work, other than product placement. If advertisers and content producers think Tivo is bad now, just wait another year when vidcasts replace the news, and amateur shows pick up another level of refinement. I've already heard from local actor's studios regarding making "free" TV shows to release to the web to advertise their abilities. All we need is one or two huge popular shows online for every city and town to have a free actor's studio making interesting television.

Advertising will be more direct -- and bidirectional.

TiVo Shopping

[le_defaut_tragique]

Here's a thought: why doesn't TiVo offer a shopping service? For example, a point-and-click amazon-esque online store. TiVo takes a lucrative cut of the take and we can consume without having to leave the couch.

Let the ranting begin ...

[Monoman]

DISCLAIMER: I own a Tivo .. ok I own a few Tivos.

Here come the Tivo flames.

Try to keep in mind that Tivo is in a very tough spot. They are trying to balance the wishes of their customers while keeping the greedy-money-grabbing content owners happy.

Bash them all you want but it can't be easy. Sadly I think Tivo is going to lose out to the cable and sattelite providers building their own DVRs into their set-top boxes. They will probably be inferior products but you won't have a choice.

For all you Myth fans I paraphrase and old Debian t-shirt.

"MythTV. What your mother would use if it were 20 times easier."

Myth is getting better but it is no Tivo or Replay.

Time to build my own Media Center

[Blacklotuz]

I've been a loyal TiVo fan for years. I've got a Series 1 Phillips TiVo unit which I modded with ethernet, a bigger hard drive, TiVoWeb, etc. At first I was willing to pay for the box AND pay the $12.99/month to get updated listings, but recently I've felt like my TiVo is being taken away from me. The showcases and ads in the unit have long anoyed me, I wished I could tell my own TiVo to stop recording ads, but I let it be since it wasnt causing me any harm. Now they add the ability for broadcasters to tell me what I can and can't record and are greatly expanding their advertising, I'm going to cancel my subscription!

The problem is the business model is all wrong. I expect that when I purchase a device AND a subscription to a service that I'm compensating the company for the service which I receive. $12.99/month for TV listings is already a bit steep and I could subscribe to TV Guide cheeper than that, why should I have to pay to be advertised to as well? If they gave away the units and charged a bit for an ad supported service or if they charged for the units but supported the free TV listings with ads I could accept that but I'm feeling more and more like I bought a device that requires me to pay $12.99/month to watch 'custom tailored' ads, but I think I'll be sticking with the ads I get for free.

Re:Time to build my own Media Center

[TheGax]

If it was just listings then I'd be with you on this. But it is an indexed list of (pretty much) every show that is TV in your local area. Not only can you have it record all your favorite "Friends" episodes, but it can also find every Jennifer Anniston movie that is on and record it for you. Or maybe you prefer shows about monkeys, there you go. And on and on.

And no one has ever been forced to watch any ad that was downloaded to a Tivo. The "Showcases" are stored in an area of the disk that we users can't access anyway. And you won't be forced to watch any of these new ads either. And another thing. If you have TivoWeb installed, then just go into the ToDo list and delete the Teleworld (etc) recordings every day. That is where most of the Showcase ads come from.

I know this is Slashdot and Advertising == The Devil, but let's get real folks.

Why not just get a DVR?

[digitaldc]

Get one of these: http://www.sjtelecommunications.com/pan-wj-hd316a- 5500.html or more affordable: http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=53 7524&store=ecost&source=ewbfroogle&adcampaign=emai l,ewbfroogle
and no more ads period?

What is the incentive to use Tivo when they are starting to incorporate ads? Why not just buy a DVR and skip the commercials?

Re:Why not just get a DVR?

[BushCheney08]

Sweet deal on that first one. They're offering it for 33% off! How could you possibly not buy one with a deal like that?!?

Why you want to watch the ads

[jparker]

I own a Tivo, and like many of you say, I really enjoy skipping the adds. Being able to watch a 30-min show in 23 minutes is a great timesaver, but it does have some downsides. I miss several jokes around the office, because they start with "Oh man, have you seen the new FooCorp add?" I have a very poor idea of what movies are coming out, because I don't see any of the trailers on TV. So, I can see several uses for this service. I'd love to be able to tell my Tivo: "Show me all the movie trailers for movies coming out Friday." Or something similar. I've thought for a while that PVRs should allow ad recording and ad sharing. You know that there are lots of people who would send that really funny ad to all their friends, and it would get the advertiser's off your back a bit. They usually have a set of ads they're featuring on the main page as well. You have to deliberatley select to watch them, but often I do. For LOTR they had behind the scenes interviews and several extended trailers. Ditto for most any other geek-friendly movie. They also showcased the BMW films when those were running. This new system just sounds like a beefed-up version of that, which is no bad thing.

Sure, most commercials are annoying and deserve to be skipped, but some are actually entertaining, interesting, and (rarely) even informative. Can't say I see a problem with providing me another way to get information, as long as it's opt-in.

Re:Why you want to watch the ads

[FangVT]

I'd love to be able to tell my Tivo: "Show me all the movie trailers for movies coming out Friday." Or something similar.

Get a Season Pass to (I think it's called) "Coming Attractions" on "E". You'll need to fast forward through some inane chatter but the show is mostly trailers for current or soon-to-be-current movies.

Press thumbs up during FF over an ad

[DickBreath]

When FF'ing through the annoying ads, I sometimes see an ad that I realize I'm interested in. I can stop FF and see the ad.

Now, if I could push thumbs up (or thumbs down!) on an ad, this could be used to notify the advertiser of my thumbs up/down.

Even better, if I press thumbs up/down on an ad, TiVo should display a menu of options, such as...
(For thumbs up)...

• I would like my TiVo to download more information about your product and send me a message when the info is available
• I liked your ad
• I like your product
• I would like TiVo to send you all of my personal information and give you unlimited permission to charge my account and send me your products

(For thumbs down)...

• I think your ad bites
• I think your product bites
• I think your company bites
• Many of the above

In the end, this is good for me. Advertisers may be encouraged to run good ads, or at least entertaining ones. Advertisers get feedback about their ads, product, and/or company -- or at least my perception of these.

TiVo and advertisers have an opportunity here. It is easy for me the viewer, I can just Thumbs Up/Down on a commercial. Select from a menu.

It is the ultimate opt-in. If I choose not to participate, I do nothing, and nothing changes about how I benefit from using my TiVo.

Re:I am going to opt in

[DickBreath]

There is an easy way to opt in. Just get a season pass to "Paid Programming".

The "Best of Ads" Channel

[krysith]

I agree that the implementation of the ad concept has sucked. I've always thought it would be interesting to start a cable TV channel that played nothing but ads - but GOOD ads, the ones where people don't change the channel when they come on. We can all think of interesting and cool ads that we have seen and liked. There are plenty of ads that people download because they thought they were neat. Get a few editors to pick the winner ads and your advertisers would give you all the content you would ever need. And they would pay you for it. You could throw in retro ads and stuff as specials to attract veiwers.

In addition, if they were not played over and over again, but rather interspersed with different ads, people would not get sick of them like they do with regular ads. Everyone gets sick of watching the same ad 10 times during the same show. Sure, advertisers like it when there is repetition, but if they are driving watchers away, shouldn't they have to pay for that? Instead, offer them this option, where placing your ad is much cheaper than between episodes of Law and Order or Survivor, but the ads are placed in such a way that viewers don't hate it.

If QVC works, so would this. In addition, if this were highly successful, it might help change the ad industry's view of the best way to do things.

Re:odd - TiVo Illegal Behavior ??? !!!

[airjrdn]

No 30 second skip removal on my DTivo. Select Play Select 30 Select

Re:odd - TiVo Illegal Behavior ??? !!!

[airjrdn]

Sorry to reply to my own post, but if you don't already know...you have to do that while watching a show you've previously recorded. Steps: ====== Start playing something previously recorded Select Play Select 30 Select

Re:odd - TiVo Illegal Behavior ??? !!!

[An ominous Cow art]

I actually look aside while fast-forwarding past commercials. Based on timing, and the mix of colors I can see out of the corner of my eye, I can stop at the right spot probably 9 out of 10 times. The most common "false positive" I get is when, for example, there's a commercial for the Simpsons right before the show itself resumes after a break.