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A Solution for the Ten Letter Acrostic Puzzle?

rmo101 asks: "A story in the Times reports a solution to the ten letter acrostic square puzzle that has defied solution since the ancient Greeks. An acrostic puzzle comprises a square of letters where the arrangement of letters from words written in rows result in the same words appearing vertically in the same order. The ten letter solution, however, is not accepted by all as one of the words does not appear in a dictionary. Sounds like a puzzle in search of a fiendish algorithm for interrogating a dictionary. The ancient Greeks believed that the solver of the ten letter puzzle would become immortal. Anyone fancy their chances?" Of course, the Times article doesn't report the proposed ten-letter solution (they show a five-letter one), but they do mention the controversial word: "nonesevent". Are any of you interested in trying your hand at a better solution?

22 of 258 comments (clear)

  1. Article messed up the latin square by dascandy · · Score: 5, Informative

    The actual square is:

    SATOR
    AREPO
    TENET
    OPERA
    ROTAS

    Which is the vertical flip of the stories' version. This one spells out the sentence in the same direction as Latin would be written (top to bottom). Also, this one generates more hits on google, with 19900 versus 1320 hits (with "SATOR AREPO" versus "AREPO SATOR").

    1. Re:Article messed up the latin square by dascandy · · Score: 5, Informative

      And the 10-word squares can be found at http://www.gtoal.com/wordgames/wordsquare/BENCHMAR K

      The probable solve:

      discu ssing
      incan tator
      scarl atina
      carni tines
      unlik eness

      state swren
      satin weave
      itine rates
      nones event
      grass nests

      What's up with slashdots lameness filter? The solution is lame now?

    2. Re:Article messed up the latin square by Bloater · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This one is also curiously palindromic, with lines of reflectional symmetry at 45 degress and 135 degrees, and rotational symmetry.

  2. Lifetime of immortality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The creator of the ten-letter acrostic would acheive "a lifetime of immortality"...

    that's useful, hm?

  3. Solution to the solution by jerometremblay · · Score: 4, Funny

    Change the dictionary.

    1. Re:Solution to the solution by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Funny

      nonesevent: (n) A word which must exist to solve that damned ten letter acrostic puzzle.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  4. The solution by alanw · · Score: 4, Informative
    This posting by Ted Clarke on the Yahoo! group wordgame-programmers announces his tensquare acrostic
    DISCUSSING
    INCANTATOR
    SCARLATINA
    CARNITINES
    UN LIKENESS
    STATESWREN
    SATINWEAVE
    ITINERATES
    NONE SEVENT
    GRASSNESTS
    </tt>

    There are two others mentioned, one of which contains the word "Orangutang", which is also mentioned in the Times article. Interestingly, this directory listing implies that the BENCHMARK file, which contains the above solution, was created no later than November 1999. Sorry - but I can't stop the ecode tage from inserting spaces into the text.

  5. Solution not valid by jurt1235 · · Score: 4, Funny

    The solution is not valid if the word does not exist in a dictionary. Does an encyclopedia count as a dictionary? If so I would say:
    Long live Wikipedia.
    Just add the word, and the puzzle is solved.
    Probably the ancient greeks solved it too once, since out of frustration comes the simple answer:
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAA

    --

    My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
  6. What's wrong with "nonesevent?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's a perfectly cromulent word.

    1. Re:What's wrong with "nonesevent?" by millette · · Score: 5, Funny

      It embiggens clarity.

  7. Easy, heres one with a 2 byte wordsize: by republican+gourd · · Score: 5, Funny

    0000000000000000 - (lameness filter
    0000000000000010 - sure is great
    0000000000000000 - there are carrots
    0000000000000000 - on my plate
    0000000000000000 - I have a buick
    0000000000000000 - which I hate
    0000000000000000 - I cut my kittens
    0000000000000000 - into bait
    0000000000000000 - la la la la
    0000000000000000 - lameness filter
    0000000000000000 - is this enough yet?
    0000000000000000 - I realize the kitten line
    0000000000000000 - may be a bit offensive
    0000000000000000 - I'm a supporter of felinism, I swear
    0100000000000010 - I just think that a kitten's place
    0000000000000001 - is in the kitchen)

    I don't see the big deal. How is this one of the big puzzles in computer science again?

    1. Re:Easy, heres one with a 2 byte wordsize: by swilde23 · · Score: 4, Informative

      What's the difference in computing a square where each position can be 1 of 2 values, vs 1 of 26??? We should only have to deal with the upper half of the square (as it needs to be diagonal)

      So, for a square of size 10 you are looking at 55 open positions. The binary case has 2^55 possibilities. A mere 36,028,797,018,963,968 different squares that need to be checked. If you only use 26 letters you are looking at 26^55 different squares! That's 6.66091878 × 10^77 different squares. Even on a network of computers (seti@home, supercomputers, whatever) that is still going to take a loooong time.

      The problem itself is super easy to run through a computer, it just takes years and years of time to compute. It's the same reason that the major encryption schemes still work. Their formulas may be known, but if you don't know the factors of a number with a thousand digits in it, you can't break it. The real kicker is no one has developed a method for finding factors quickly (at least quickly enough to make encryption obsolete!)

      --
      There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand this sig, and those that beat up people who do.
  8. Abra-Melin? by calharding · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This brings to mind something I read once about the "Abra-Melin" squares connected to the work of SL Macgreggor Mathers and Aleister Crowley.

    One which stuck in mind goes as follows:

    ALLUP
    LEIRU
    LIGIL
    URIEL
    PULLA

    When ritually consecrated they are said to be capable of producing magic effects; at least according to the mystics.

    --
    Before enlightenment - Code C, read Usenet, play NetHack. After enlightenment - Code C, read Usenet, play NetHack.
  9. Only the Fool... by headkase · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Reminds me of a bit of Hofstader's Metamagical Themas:

    Only the fool would take trouble to verify that his sentence was composed of ten a's, three b's, four c's, four d's, forty-six e's, sixteen f's, four g's, thirteen h's, fifteen i's, two k's, nine l's, four m's, twenty-five n's, twenty-four o's, five p's, sixteen r's, forty-one s's, thirty-seven t's, ten u's, eight v's, eight w's, four x's, eleven y's, twenty-seven commas, twenty-three apostrophes, seven hyphens and, last but not least, a single !

    There's got to be a piece of math that finds the positions where all constraints are satisfied as in the above quote.

    --
    Shh.
  10. LanguageLog notes issues in the story by h4ter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Benjamin Zimmer over at Language Log notes some problems with the story. Most notably:

    There's no evidence that the composition of word squares, let alone 10-squares, was a pastime in ancient Greece.

    And, there's the timeliness of the article:

    [I]t's unclear why the Times thought that this was at all newsworthy, considering that Clarke announced his discovery of the square back in April 1999, in an issue of his e-zine WordsWorth.

  11. german... by CaptnMArk · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you're German, you just put 4 5x5 solutions together and you are done :)

  12. They Were Right About the Whole Immortality Thing by tnsimonson · · Score: 4, Funny

    I solved this puzzle when I was a kid back in 352 A.D.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my coffee - tied up in a sack and brought to me by Juan Valdez.
  13. Sparse space by tgv · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's a sparseness problem. The space of two letter words is pretty full, but as the length of the words increases, the number of words does not increase as fast as the number of possible combinations.

    I've actually written a program to generate the Dutch solutions to the 5x5 puzzle somewhere around 1990, and it found several good solutions with a 210,000 word dictionary. However, it didn't find solutions for the 6x6 square. So I would expect that the 10x10 square is near impossible, unless wacky compounds would be allowed, since they are the only thing that can keep the letter combination filled...

  14. Re:Jut make a program... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe will we see emerging something like a Acrostic@Home grid computing program?

    Yes, but what happens when you have a million computers connected to each other and granted immortality?

    Skynet..

  15. Mod parent up by cryptochrome · · Score: 4, Funny

    Since slashdot has stopped giving me comment points for some reason.

    It's a simple enough solution - if you have a word with no meaning, just find one for it. Problem solved, the neologistical way!

    --

    ---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?

    1. Re:Mod parent up by jstoner · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nonesevent is a perfectly cromulent word!

      --

      'In knowledge is power, in wisdom humility.'
  16. Wrong Language by FJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To be a valid solution to the ancient Greeks (and win the immortality prize), shouldn't the solution be using Greek words?