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IBM Stresses Importance of OpenDoc to MA

gordoste writes "After announcing this past weekend that the WorkPlace line of products would support the OpenDocument set of standards, IBM has sent a letter to Massachusetts' governor promoting the software. They point out that the software was built in Massachusetts and that the French tax agency saves 10% on their IT budget as a result of moving to open standard software." From the article: "Designed at IBM's development lab in Westford, Massachusetts, the IBM Workplace Managed Client will help protect an organization's investment in corporate data by promoting consistency, reliability and open accessibility of its documents. As you know, Massachusetts is recognized across the globe as an incubator for software development ... What you may not know is that software is major growth engine for IBM, and solutions being developed at these IBM locations are being built on open standards because our customers are demanding choice and control over their information technology."

22 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. IBM by yincrash · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course it's important! to IBM. They are using the standard, and they want a government to support it, which will be, in turn, supporting the use of IBM products because they use the standard.

    1. Re:IBM by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Readers are still free?

      Where?

      It doesn't count as free if you have to buy Windows to run it.

    2. Re:IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sorry? What readers are free? I am typing this from a Solaris workstation. I also have a Linux laptop. As far as I know, Microsoft does not provide any "free" readers for either platform.

    3. Re:IBM by mysticgoat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course it's important! to IBM. They are using the standard, and they want a government to support it, which will be, in turn, supporting the use of IBM products because they use the standard.

      Emphasis added. Do this
      s/products/services/
      and the statement will be more correct. IBM appears to be planning to sell a bundle of FOSS with the services to set up and maintain the package, similar to Red Hat, etc. The distinction is important since it offers MA and other potential clients a way to avoid vendor lock-in, and thus more leverage in shaping the package and services to fit their future needs.

      I think the key point in all of this is that IBM has now said very clearly that OpenOffice.org is not the only player in the OpenDocument world. Since IBM can offer key pieces that OpenOffice can't offer with any credibility at this time (like courseware for retraining secretarial staff, custom services for reworking macros, etc), I think their timely announcement is of great importance.

  2. At what cost.. by onion2k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a result of running software based on open standards, the agency is now saving around 20m per year a considerable portion of the agency's 200m yearly IT budget.

    I advocate and use open standards whereever possible .. but you have to be aware that it's rarely a case of "switch and save". There are other related costs that need to be considered with a large changeover to a different document standard. Not least there's the cost of re/training staff to use new software. Then there's the cost of developing a solution (doubtless IBM has one to sell) to allow access to archived materials at the same time as accessing the new format. Then there's the cost in staff turnover. Iif you're not using MS Office you may find a lot of your secretarial staff are keen to leave .. they need to keep their skills current just as much as the resident IT geeks .. and in the secretarial world 'current' = latest version of Office.

    While it's nice to say "these guys saved 20 million Euros" I wouldn't take that figure as red. They might have saved 20m euros on Microsoft licences (yay!), but what did the change cost elsewhere? Was that 20m euros really an overall saving?

    1. Re:At what cost.. by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If they spent 200m before, and spend 180m now, it should be pretty easy to tell...

    2. Re:At what cost.. by omega9 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not least there's the cost of re/training staff to use new software.

      Toy with Office 12 Beta for a while. The updates to the interface are not minor. All the shortcuts you're used to are still there (CTRL-C, CTRL-V, etc...), but those exist in any major non-Microsoft office product as well. Moving from Office 2003 to Office 12 (Vista, whatevs) will not be a small step.

      It's actually a key time to consider a different office suite. If you're conserned about re/training on a different product, consider the effort involved in just sticking with Office. You'd probably spend just as much energy updating your staff on the new Office interface as you would introducing them to a different suite all together.

      --
      I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
    3. Re:At what cost.. by Count_Froggy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Iif you're not using MS Office you may find a lot of your secretarial staff are keen to leave .. they need to keep their skills current just as much as the resident IT geeks .. and in the secretarial world 'current' = latest version of Office.

      Secretarial Staff?????? Where have you been the last 25 years? Since Apple first put computers on workers' desks (with Visicalc), the secretarial position has gradually disapeared. At this point, it is only a perk of senior management. And, these people are a lot smarter than you give them credit. Give them a tool and they will learn it! Not so long ago, 'current' = 'WordStar' or 'WP' or 'Ami Pro' or '...'.

      --
      If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
  3. that's a good thing, actually by penguin-collective · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The non-commercial and public angle is made well enough already by the people who are in a position to make such arguments. IBM is a commercial software vendor and they wouldn't fool anybody into thinking otherwise if they tried.

    Overall, I think it's a good thing that big vendors are advertising their products by stressing the value of open document formats to potential buyers because it shows that the formats are commercially supported and that businesses have an interested to continue to support them. The more commercial sales pitches MA gets for products using open document formats, the easier it will be for them to adopt such formats.

  4. Irony by Eightyford · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Irony: IBM stressing the importance of open standards. (If this were 1985)

    1. Re:Irony by l2718 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If this were 1985, we would all be talking about how IBM has decided to publish the specifications for their IBM-PC and IBM-XT machines (down to the motherboard wiring diagrams and the BIOS listing), which are based on off-the-shelf components. This while other kinds of personal computers (e.g. the Apple Macintosh that was introduced last year [1984]) are closed-hardware and can only be bought from specific vendors. The popularity of cheap IBM-PC clones is helping the sales of IBM's machines and making them the de-facto standard, despite the technical superiority of the competition from Apple.

  5. Re:Doesn't stop with the document format by Ckwop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Savvy corporations can also effectively leverage open standards such as the W3C's HTML, SVG, CSS and interaction workflows such as those enabled by WHATWG and.or X-Forms to achieve stellar ROI across the publishing lifecycle.

    *stands up* (bullshit) BINGO!

    On a serious note, you're right to point this out. We need to take our language back from these baffoons who seems to speak alot but don't really say anything.

    Simon

  6. Re:Advertising? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, I think that's an excellent first line. It's telling those making the decision that supporting Open Document is likely to have a positive impact on the state's economy (i.e. people are currently employed writing software that uses the standard). That means that suddenly one of the options involves more money flowing in-state - a solution that makes a lot of politicians happy.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Regardless... by porkThreeWays · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Regardless, they are fully supporting an open standard. This puts all software on a level playing field. Alternative browsers have gained great amounts of market share recently because they all compete on a (theoretically) level playing field (in practice we all know MS has attempted their own extensions to try and make html not so open standard). So what if IBM promotes their software product. The fact it will fully support open document is good enough. I think all open source advocates want is a level playing field not hindered by market leaders forcing vendor lock-in. We just want an environment where the software speaks for itself.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
  8. Not unique by Tony · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not least there's the cost of re/training staff to use new software.

    1. This is true for every major upgrade of MS-Office, as well. It is not unique to switching to a "different" document editing suite.

    Iif you're not using MS Office you may find a lot of your secretarial staff are keen to leave .. they need to keep their skills current just as much as the resident IT geeks .. and in the secretarial world 'current' = latest version of Office.

    See point 1. You just contradicted the whole "training/retraining" point you made earlier. And this is one of the most ludicrous statements I've heard in defence of MS-Office. Granted, I haven't worked in an office dedicated to creating documents since my university-worker days, but I've never met an office worker who would quit their job over MS-Office. Even those that insisted on WordPerfect (back when it was king, and MS-Office was the also-ran) made the transition to another office suite just fine.

    While it's nice to say "these guys saved 20 million Euros" I wouldn't take that figure as red. They might have saved 20m euros on Microsoft licences (yay!), but what did the change cost elsewhere? Was that 20m euros really an overall saving?

    This is an excellent point.

    I think it will be worth it, just because they *are* moving to an open standard. It might cost a little bit up front, but over the next decade, it will save a tremendous amount of money. Hell, just being able to put the office suite licensing out to bid (which you sure as hell can't do if you use MS-Office document formats) should provide a bit of competition, which is good for the citizen or organization spending their hard-earned cash.

    --
    Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
  9. IBM taking the long view by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I think this is a good long term strategy by IBM. Before you can take on an entrenched monopoly, there has to be an alternative support structure in place. This appears to be IBM building that foundation of standards which will ultimately undermine MSFT's monopoly position.

    Nice to see a company breaking out of the quarter-to-quarter mind set and building a long term strategy for their success. And, oh yeah, a lot of us will also benefit from the sea change.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  10. Re:Advertising? by tdemark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It would have been nice to make the point without making the letter seem like a cold-call sales pitch. I found the first paragraph a bit off-putting

    As opposed to Microsoft, who, in their correspondence, makes no mention that going with OpenDocument will cost them big money in lost sales?

    I'd much rather a company say "We support X and here is our product that does so" then "You shouldn't go with X for FUD reasons a, b, and c. (And, while we won't tell you this, if you go with X, it will cost us $x million in annual sales)". Give credit to the company with the blatant agenda as opposed to the not-so-well hidden one.

    - Tony

  11. Re:Doesn't stop with the document format by wombatmobile · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah. These implementations speak:

    XForms in Mozilla (with SVG integration)

    WHATWG demos

    And Jacques Surveyor speaks.

  12. Long term prospective by porkThreeWays · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The overall idea in getting away from MS is not to save money immediatly, but save money in the long run. MS has historically shown us they want to lock you in as fiercly as possible. Staying with MS now just means it will be harder to get away from them in 5 or 10 years. Once they are on a system of open document, they can really switch office suites that support it however they want. They can do testing of new suites within single departments and still exchange documents with everyone else. It isn't so much saving money directly on MS licenses. It's having the choice to go to another vendor at any time and not having to do a massive migration (such as what would happen with getting away from MS in the first place).

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
  13. Re:Advertising? by k12linux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think a "we do business in your state and we are basing some of that business on ODF" message might be EXACTLY what Romney needs to hear. He's clearly business friendly.

    Besides most polititians automatically assume that *everybody* has alterior motives when they do something good.

  14. Re:OpenDoc != OpenDocument by Mikelikus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These posts (like the parent) are karma whoring... everyone already knows that OpenDoc is dead and that some people say OpenDoc as a shorthand of OpenDocument.

    Every single article which makes this mistake gets a whole book of this kind of posts. Enough already. Thank you.

    --
    -- Would it be acceptable to just put my name on my sig?
  15. Re:Advertising? by Jason+Earl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The IBM exec was just making a very important political point. While Microsoft is a big company with a lot of political influence, IBM is also a big company with lots of political influence (and a lot more experience wielding that influence). IBM also has something that Microsoft does not have, and that is a significant investment in the state of Massachusetts.