White Box, Or Big Names for Lower-End Servers?

LazloToth asks: "Those of us who manage small- to medium-size networks face the decision all the time: for the run-of-the-mill web, print, or storage server running on i386 architecture, should we buy HP or Dell, for example, or build it ourselves from commodity hardware and save some bucks up front? In my operation of fewer than 50 servers, one will see a mix of the two. For servers that take more abuse, I tend to buy the proprietary stuff. But not always. I wonder what experiences other admins and managers have had with do-it-yourself servers in a production environment, and whether they feel that white-box servers perform as well - - and last as long - - as anything else? What is the mix in your network of big-names to no-names?"

Comments

Two sides

[PunkOfLinux]

there are two sides the issue here

big name - warranty (saving your ass)

white box - if you build it yourself you know what's in there. It's cheaper. But you don't have a warranty.

Re:Two sides

[toddbu]

In addition to the money you save, you'll also save a lot of time. I've run both high-end Compaq machines and servers that I've build myself, and I've found the latter to be a lot easier to deal with. Here's why:

• No special drivers to load - Compaq has their own configuration tools and just keeping track of the CDs with the software was a pain. If something goes wrong, is it the driver, your OS, or something else?
• Inability to debug hardware - You can't drop a proprietary drive in another machine that you have in your office to see if it works. You have to have another proprietary machine to see where the problem is.
• Touchy hardware - Some might disagree with me, but I found Compaq hardware to be really touchy. When you spend $10-20K on a single box, you expect it to always run. I've found as good or better reliability in machines that you build yourself.
• Configured the way you want - It can be difficult to build out a proprietary machine just that way you want it. If the vendor is short on parts, you have to choose between getting it now in a different configuration or waiting until they have the part. When you build your own stuff, you buy what you want when you want it.

Don't get me wrong - there are times when proprietary systems make sense. I don't think I'd ever build my own laptop. But servers are better when you build them yourself.

Proprietary is usually better

[duffbeer703]

Lights out management usually works better on IBM, HP or Dell systems. Also, building and fixing machines is a pain and gets time consuming & expensive, particularly if you get a bad batch of drives or motherboards that requires alot of fixing.

If you are running < 10-15 machines, I can see cost savings in going whitebox. But if you are tight on staff and runnings lots of machines, buying name-brand kit is cheaper in the long run.

Pick a major vendor

[Frumious Wombat]

We went the white-box route on our first compute cluster, which were then converted to desktops later. Decent machines, but the power-supplies weren't up to the 24x7 operation and tended to eventually have the fans sieze up, causing the ps to overheat. Eventually other components showed that they could have been better, and we cannibalized some machines to keep others running. They were replaced by HP and IBM boxes under 3-year, next-day, service contracts.

The advantage of calling IBM, HP, or even Dell, is not simply the service contract (though your time is worth something), or the fact that their QC is superior to wherever you're getting your parts from, but that they have real engineers, who worry about such issues as optimizing air-flow, choosing proper fan-sizes, etc. Take apart an IBM xSeries 345 some time, then try to decide if you could actually buy parts to build a machine like that, for less than just calling IBM.

White-box systems may have once made sense, ( I remember a 386/40 AMD-based system that I wrote my thesis on that was still running when I came to visit years later), but with modern components, heat-loads, etc, it pays to invest in properly engineered hardware, backed up by a company willing to service it on short notice. WB hardware may still make sense for desktops, if your environment keeps the data in non-local storage, so that a new desktop can be dropped, booted, and put into production immediately. Never with servers.

We adopted an informal, simple, but effective policy: Do not buy any machine that doesn't come with a three-year warranty, or hard-drive that doesn't come with a five year warranty.

It's not the color of the box

[fm6]

You're not saying "Buy white box." You're saying, "buy from a good white box vendor." And how many of those are out there? From what I've seen, not that many.

Besides, by depending on this guy, you've created a one-man point of failure. What happens when this guy gets sick or goes on vacation? Where's your immediate response then?

Even if he never gets sick or takes time off, he's not going to be able to sustain this level of service. His own good reputation will work against him. He's obviously one of those people who has to do everything himself. He's probably not very good at delegating or training, so he's never going to be able to scale up his operation. So unless he starts turning away business and dropping customers when they get too big for him to handle, he's going to get in out of his depth.

If I were in your shoes, I'd want my hardware needs met by a solid organization, once I could count on not just now, but years from now. And that has to do with people, not with where the boxes are assembled.