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Mice Created With Human Brain Cells
pin_gween writes "Scientists have added 100,000 human brain cells to mice in an effort to create realistic models of disorders like Parkinson's Disease. Although mice are 97.5 percent genetically identical to humans and it sounds like a large number, 100,000 only represents 0.1% of the number of cells in mice brains. FTA: 'It's true that there is a huge amount of similarity, but the differences are huge,' Snyder said. 'You will never ever have a little human trapped inside a mouse or monkey's body. [...] Researchers are nevertheless beginning to bump up against what bioethicists call the "yuck factor." 'The worry is if you humanize them too much you cross certain boundaries,' said David Magnus, director of the Stanford Medical Center for Biomedical Ethics. 'But I don't think this research comes even close to that.'"
I for one welcome our new Pinky and the Brain overlords. NARF!
The mice were furious.
" 'The worry is if you humanize them too much you cross certain boundaries,' said David Magnus, director of the Stanford Medical Center for Biomedical Ethics. 'But I don't think this research comes even close to that.'"
it's the thin end of the wedge. maybe this wasn't human enough...and nor will the next infinitessimally small step...but one day it will be too far and we won't have even realised
I thought mice - being pan dimensional beings - were far more advanced than humans (ranked 3, just after dolphins).
This is like modding an xbox 360/ps3/whatever with a Z80 - why whould you want to do that?
'The worry is if you humanize them too much you cross certain boundaries,'
Translation: The worry is that the mice will sue for cruel & unusual punishment and civil rights violations if humanized too much.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
"Why Brain, what are we gonna to do tomorrow night?"
"Guess... "
"Oh yeah, try to take over the world, right... "
Yay, human-brained mice. This means that once they escape and start rampaging, scientists will have no choice but to create a race of catpeople to counter them. Of course, this will lead to revolts creating a need for dogpeople, but for a short time, I shall have my catboy! Vengance shall be mine!
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
so is all this 97.5% like generic organ, dna stuff?
You're about 50% banana.
i dont see the similarities between humans and mice
You obviously haven't even looked at a banana very closely, let alone a mouse. About the only difference a lifeform from the proverbial Mars would see between a human and a mouse would be scale. We are virtually identical to mice in every detail but stature.
If you want learn human anatomy, disect a chicken, and a chicken isn't even a mammal.
KFG
Researchers are nevertheless beginning to bump up against what bioethicists call the "yuck factor."
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~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Remind me what's so unique about human neurons that cause people to fear that mice will somehow become conscious, thinking organisms?
So far we have super-strong, long-lived, regenerating mice with human brain cells. We're getting pretty close to "the mice of NIMH".
If 100.000 brain cells is 0.1% then a mouse has 100.000.000 brain cells. How many bytes does it take to describe a brain cell? How many connections are there from a single brain cell to other brain cells? Say it takes 4 bytes to address the connections. Then 10 connections per cell make 4GByte in total. Who is going to write the software to simulate a mouse?
They are mammals. Most of their bodies work the same as ours although they are on different scales. They have muscle tissue, brain tissue, eyes, a skeleton etc. that work the same way ours do. They are similar enough to us that many/most of the same drugs that work on us work on them. Apart from size and shape there are no major differences.
Scientists have added 100,000 human brain cells to mice
Now I don't even want to touch my mouse! I guess it's back to the command line for me.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
The worry is if you humanize them too much you cross certain boundaries
How about if we cross a different barrier and drop the anthropocentric bullshit.
Compare a brick house to a brick factory building.
Mice and men are made of the same bricks, assembled in the same manner, ending with much the same results, which is why they can use mice for medical research in the first place. Above poster has it right, God is in the details, but the details are really very, very tiny. Sometimes those tiny differences are critical, but it doesn't make them any less tiny.
I'm sorry if it insults your sense of humanity to be compared to a mouse, but I don't exactly see the point of gaining your "stature" by denigrating mice either.
You're "smarter" than a mouse, of course, but being "smarter" isn't even of any particular value if you don't act smarter, and the mouse can do something you likely can't. . .
Take care of itself.
KFG
The company I work for http://www.jax.org/ maintains over 2,000 straings of laboratory mice for sale to other research institutions (we do genetics research and are designated a national cancer center, the 69 million dollar a year mouse business all started by selling surplus mice to other researchers, now it's a large part of the company and there has been discussion about spinning it off as a for-profit subsidiary. Right now, since all the surplus funds from the mouse business go directly towards supporting the research, we enjoy a tax-free status). We have models for diabetes, glaucoma, aids, certain cancers, adult onset obesity, etc. In experiments that involve drug testing, the only real difference (after you factor in mass differences) between mice and humans is how fast the mice metabolize the drugs.
so just for the record, we can make super strong fearless immortal mice that can sing, regenerate body parts, sniff out landmines, and have partial human brains. scientists don't mod their computer cases, they mod their mice!
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Mice and Rats in research are supposed to be pitied, by the usual pathetic ways that humans impart everything around them with the feelings or emotions which we possess. Actually, you should look at some facts.
FACT: Mice in the wild live about a year, in the most stressful, difficult and inhumane conditions you wouldn't like to imagine. Should they be unfortunate to gain access to one of the animal rights protestors habitat, middle class suburbia, the self same protestor, full of indignation at experimental killing, will of course call in someone to rid them of their little problem, or condemn them to freeze to death in wooded areas with humane capture traps. In the lab, mus musculus live on average about 2 years in controlled, warm conditions with regular feeding and exercise.
FACT: Rats in the wild live about 2 years max, again in stressful, disease ridden cramped conditions. In the lab, Rats can survive double that, again in nicely ordered, well controlled and comfortable conditions.
So don't bring up that ignorant rubbish about how animal experiments somehow harm rats and mice: unlike Joe Public taking potshots at rats and mice in his backyard, everything WE do is sanctioned, pored over and refined each and every step of the way to minimise suffering. Hell, our animals are no use for experimentation if they're unhappy or agitated: they get difficult to handle. We go to see them and handle them a couple of weeks before expts even start to get them used to our presence, smell, voices etc.
Rats and mice are far better treated in our labs than in the wild or in your homes, and they are also better treated than the conveyor belt of cattle fattened and slaughtered for your own diet. I get angered by the hypocrisy of people opposed to experimentation while conveniently overlooking the animal suffering inherent in large scale production of meat in all the developed world, with cattle stunned with bolt guns wandering into saws. It's so much easier to criticise someone else than look at your won behaviour, isn't it?
Meine Schwester ist sehr, sehr reizvoll - Nietzsche
Well I don't know about you, but speaking for myself, I find significant differences:
Of course, there are also similarities:
You're about 50% banana.
I like to think of myself as mostly fruitcake.
Soylent Green is peoplicious!