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Microsoft Sued Over Patent Infringements

Foobar of Borg writes "The Associated Press is reporting that Microsoft is being sued over alleged infringement of three patents held by Visto Corporation. The patents in question relate to the handling of information between servers and handheld telcom devices. Jack Evans, a Microsoft spokesman, has not commented on the case itself, but has simply stated that 'Microsoft stands behind its products and respects intellectual property rights.'"

31 of 162 comments (clear)

  1. Nnnnyes.... by Veneratio · · Score: 3, Insightful

    TFA: "Microsoft stands behind its products and respects intellectual property rights." Well they do, im sure. Right until they buy the company. "Heres , keep the change. All your IP are belong to us."

    --
    "Sarcasm is for *winners*, Alan." - Charlie Harper (Two and a Half Men)
  2. Patents by pryonic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I just don't get how this is meant to work. I don't blame Microsoft here, how are they to know an idea they comeup with has has already been patented? Or is this just the way modern business is going - money is made my sueing other people. I rarely stand behind MS, but i think this is all getting a bit silly now.

    --
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    1. Re:Patents by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 4, Interesting

      how are they to know an idea they comeup with has has already been patented?

      There are these things called "Patent Libraries" that contain (now follow me here, it gets tricky) "patent information"...

      Where I used to work, we had a site license that allowed everyone to conduct searches against an online Patent Library - you could type in a few keywords and within seconds it would show you patents related to your keywords.

      I had a boss who was obsessed with getting his name on a patent, even if it had nothing to do with the companies core competencies, so any time anyone would blurt out something during a brainstorming session, he'd do a quick patent search and say "nope, someone already owns that idea".

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
    2. Re:Patents by lixee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's what results from patents being legal for software. You people should really try to reform the system there. Europe got the point and luckily refused the proposal to legalise software patents. More info on http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/

      --
      Res publica non dominetur
    3. Re:Patents by pryonic · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That's kind of my point though. If I invent a new product such as a wind up radio, I would think to do a patent search to see if a similar patent exists. That's a tangible product with defined search criteria.

      Now, with software the boundaries are blury. What can you patent as in invention? The ability to skin an app? The ability to click a button on a website to initiate a purchase? The ability to increment a variable?

      Pretty soon we'll have to check every applet, function, line of code we write to see if anyone has patented what we're trying to do. As I live in the EU I'm not lumbered with these worries, but the day will come when I am.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    4. Re:Patents by LaughingCoder · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are these things called "Patent Libraries" that contain (now follow me here, it gets tricky) "patent information"...

      You are oversimplifying. First, there can be patents filed but not yet issued -- you don't have access to them until the issue. Second, doing a "real" patent search is an expensive proposition (I'm not talking about your boss doing a 2 minute google search on a few key phrases). No company can do that type of search on every little thing that comes along.

      Regarding submarine patents, I believe there have been changes made to the law to address this problem. Apparently the way submarine patents worked was the filer would stall the patent before it issued -- sometimes for many years. Then, once another company (with money) was clearly infringing they would push ahead to get the patent issued. There was no time limit on how long they could stall the process, and since the date of the original filing was the date used to decide first invention, the second company got "torpedoed" with no way of protecting themselves. The law change, as I understand it, is to now give the filer protection for 20 years from the date of filing, rather than 17 years from the date of issue.

      --
      The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    5. Re:Patents by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 4, Informative

      Submarine patents were worse than that. They'd file, then they were able to change the patent before it was issued.

      So...

      1. You file a generic patent on some new tech which is on the horizon. E.g. securely replicating web applications for mobile users. You don't know your own implementation, that doesn't matter.
      2. You wait for somebody to come up with a working implementation, filing "continuations" to your patent, stalling the issuing
      3. Somebody implements the idea
      4. You file continuations to cause your patent to match their working implementation
      5. You stop filing continuations
      6. The patent office issues your patent
      7. You sue the orignal inventor for rights to their own creation.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_app lication

    6. Re:Patents by back_pages · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You are oversimplifying. First, there can be patents filed but not yet issued -- you don't have access to them until the issue.

      But of course, we all know that under AIPA all patent applications will be published within 18 months of filing, except in special circumstances where the inventors waive the right to claim priority in a foreign country to the US patent application. And of course, we all know that, because this is an extremely basic and well-known fact about patent systems around the world.

      Second, doing a "real" patent search is an expensive proposition (I'm not talking about your boss doing a 2 minute google search on a few key phrases). No company can do that type of search on every little thing that comes along.

      This is true, but any serious company can afford an accountant to handle their taxes. This keeps them out of trouble with the IRS. Any serious company can likewise afford to a) purchase litigation insurance, or b) invest some money into researching its IP liability with legal experts before taking a product to market. This keeps them out of trouble with the patent system. Pleading ignorance about patents is akin to pleading ignorance about taxes. Hire an expert or expect problems.

    7. Re:Patents by Shakes268 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Searching has been patented by the Lexus Nexus network. I'm sure your site license paid for the right to use the patented search technique, right?

      In all seriousness now, for every section of code that I write during the day - if I were to spend an hour searching patents to make sure I don't infringe on something that just triples(or more) 99% of all software projects I've ever worked on.

  3. "intellectual" property by KiloByte · · Score: 4, Funny

    'Microsoft stands behind its products and respects intellectual property rights.'

    Correction: this sentence lacks the second "its" (just after "respects").

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    1. Re:"intellectual" property by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 4, Funny

      I expected it to say,

      Microsoft stands behind its products and lobs chairs over the barracades.'

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
  4. Permanent injuction? How likely is that? by Escogido · · Score: 2, Informative

    Somehow I have a feeling Visto is just trying to "cash in" their patents by making out-of-court agreements to settle the deal.

  5. Too Many Patents by Mattygfunk1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The small guys try to get rich with patents suing the big guys, so the big guys get further patents to protect themselves.

    The system is fucked.

    __
    Funny video clips for Adults only!
    1. Re:Too Many Patents by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that doesn't always work. It's possible for a licencing company to have no products, but simply a portfolio of patents. As such, they can't be sued for patent infringement. Seems counterproductive for MS to lobby for patents since they are more likely to be sued than to sue.

  6. Visto's press release by tpgp · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From Visto's press release
    "Microsoft has a long and well-documented history of acquiring the technology of others, branding it as their own, and entering new markets," said Mr. Bogosian. "In some cases, they buy that technology from its creator. In other cases, they wrongfully misappropriate the intellectual property that belongs to others, which has forced them to acknowledge and settle large IP cases with companies like Sun, AT&T and Burst.com. For their foray into mobile email and data access, Microsoft simply decided to misappropriate Visto's well known and documented patented technology."
    Frankly, my take on it is that the more large comapnies that are sued over patents (especially submarine patents - although that doesn't seem to be the case here) the better.

    Nothing like a little pressure from industry giants to speed up much needed reform of the patent system.

    --
    My pics.
    1. Re:Visto's press release by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I said it yesterday, and I'll repeat it - the patent system (bureacracy) needs to be, not fixed, but neutered.

      Bureacracies always reach out and try to take more power - once patents simply protected implementations - now the patent office is reaching out to get a stranglehold on stuff like "business methods" and algorithms (math) and essentially ideas - many of them common sense to the problem being solved.

      Patents are for society, not the individual. It's supposed to push progress forward by opening non-obvious ideas for everyone for a limited time. Not MONOPOLIZE obvious ideas for the benefit of one person against the rest of society.

      To fix patents, we don't need more patent clerks (federal employees), we need to:

      1. Go back to old way patents were done - which includes working implementation upon application. Thus ideas become unpatentable. Same with business methods. It will also render 90% all the unreadable legalese to obscure what you are patenting obsolete.

      2. Punish non-English application. No, I don't mean application in a foreign language, just the ones that read like they are. Plain english is a must. Jail time in Gitmo otherwise.

      3. Raise price to apply for patent to $10,000-50,000 (refundable only on recieving a patent) - while it may seem to screw the "little guy" it actually will kill corporations trying to patent every little thing. Even a little operation will be able to afford to patent 1 WORTHWHILE application, but will corporate America still be able to afford to apply for 10's of thousands of trivial patents?

      THE KEY
      4. Part of application fee (say 1/2) will go as a bounty to anybody who can disprove it - in other words show prior art, etcetera. This could be anybody - college students, professors, employees of another company.

      Why hire clueless clerks when you could flocks of knowleable people examining patents because of a profit motive to turn them down? They won't have the power to deny a patent, they bring the case against it.

      5. No renewable patents. Lower patent length from 17 years to 9 years or so. Back in the 1700's, business and the pace of life overall was slower, let's reflect that.

  7. How things change... by Noryungi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember a time -- I think it was around the release of Windows 95 -- when the dream of every little startup was to get bought by Microsoft.

    Now, they have strangled the competition so much that the dream of many little startups is to fold, hold onto their 'Intellectual Property' for a while, then sue the heck out of Microsoft.

    Which, by the way, is not a bad strategy at all, since Bill Gates & Co. have billions and billions of dollars in the bank and are very willing to buy their way out of legal troubles (monopoly problems with DoJ and all that).

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  8. Its the game... by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to what I read YESTERDAY (but the story was rejected on /.) Microsoft seems to be being targeted in a preemptive way. In order to protect its IP, Visto is asking that MS Mobile 5.0 simply be prevented from being bundled with other MS products. They apparently have IP to back this up, and I hope that Visto manages to hold their own, whether that is toe-to-toe until out of court settlements are made, or in just filibustering their way to leadership position on mobile email. By keeping Microsoft out of the game (so to speak) that leaves room for other options. One thing I know for certain, Microsoft will never be kind to a F/OSS option in terms of IP licensing... perhaps Visto will.

    1. Re:Its the game... by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Informative

      Microsoft will never be kind to a F/OSS option in terms of IP licensing... perhaps Visto will.

      NTP (the patent trolling company suing BlackBerry), just got recieved an equity stake in Visto (cannot find how much) like the same day Visto sues MS. OK, MS may not be the nicest to F/OSS, but you seriously think think a patent trolling company now owning a stake in Visto boads well for its contributions?

      Also, here are the patents Visto says are being infringed on. OK, I haven't read the patents in detail, but just the titles make my head spin at patents being granted for this stuff:

      * U.S. Patent No. 6,085,192 titled, "System And Method For Securely Synchronizing Multiple Copies Of A Workspace Element In A Network"

      * U.S. Patent No. 6,708,221 titled, "System And Method For Globally And Securely Accessing Unified Information In A Computer Network"

      * U.S. Patent No. 6,151,606 titled, "System And Method For Using A Workspace Data Manager To Access, Manipulate And Synchronize Network Data"

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  9. NTP by sangreal66 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Now we know the real reason why NTP acquired a stake in Visto yesterday.

  10. what a bunch of sleazeballs by penguin-collective · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Neither NTP nor Visto have contributed anything of importance to mobile E-mail technology; they have simply taken out patents on some of the obvious and trivial ways in which devices can get notified of server updates.

    Visto's argument that it is good to beat Microsoft with patents because of Microsoft's monopolistic practices is wrong. It is true that Microsoft is behaving monopolistically with Exchange and Windows Mobile, but that's an issue for regulators and the market to worry about. Allowing Visto's and NTP's bogus patents to stand only replaces a big monopolist with a little one.

    1. Re:what a bunch of sleazeballs by sogoodsofarsowhat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While you may consider it a bogus set of patents the good news your opinoin matters not. The patents have been issued and thus they have every legal right to defend them.

      --
      . I love the sound of burning women and screaming rubber....
  11. wild. by CDPatten · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems the new craze for companies is that when they are struggling, just sue a successful company for patent infringement. Look at creative suing apple over the iPod... they didn't care until apple kicked their ass in the market. Look at RIM.

    My point is that our corrupt politicians have allowed what should have been copyright law become patent law. Your code is a parallel to writing a book, not a parallel to creating the electric engine.

    The irony is that big corporation like Microsoft have shot themselves in the foot here. They pushed for this type of patent law out of fear that their software would easily be duplicated, so It is funny to watch them get slapped by so many frivolous law suites.

  12. Visto and NTP by thebdj · · Score: 5, Informative

    I read this the other day and posted on a comment on the story about NTP signing a patent licensing deal. The small company involved was Visto and Visto has several patents (25 total). It is quite possible the two companies are cross-licensing, but NTP may not have any patents worth sharing when the re-examination process at the PTO is complete.

    Basically, Visto and NTP announced their deal Wednesday, the same day Visto filed suit against Microsoft. It also appears that NTP acquired a stake in the company as well, so they seem to have an invested interest in this case now as well. For those who have been hiding for the last while, NTP is the company who has become famous (or infamous) from their suit against RIM.

    --
    "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
  13. Re:Well duh, it's a software patent by temcat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Patents were originally there to prevent ideas theft

    Sorry, but this is wrong, because:

    1. Ideas can't be stolen. Period.
    2. Actually, patents were originally there to promote disclosure of useful ideas instead of keeping them forever as trade secrets.

    BTW, 2. really should be used as one of the criteria of patentability: the thing should be patentable only if it can be successfully kept as a trade secret. Trivially reverse-engineered or analysed things should not be patentable. If by looking at the thing I can easily tell what is the essence of the patent, this thing doesn't deserve to be patented - because disclosure does not add anything useful to my observation. (The "ease" has of course to be somehow quantified, but this is a solvable technical question.)

  14. Microsoft shut down ASF/WMV support in VirtualDub by tepples · · Score: 3, Funny

    Microsoft have lost millions in patent fights, and have never ever used them to attack open source software.

    O rly?

  15. Steve Ballmer by zaguar · · Score: 2, Funny
    Meanwhile, in Redmond, a sound can be heard from the CEO office, along with the sounds of chairs crashing.

    "I'm going to Fucking BURY Visto Corporation! I've done it before, and I will do it again. I am going to FUCKING KILL Visto Corporation!"

    --
    "Sure there's porn and piracy on the Web but there's probably a downside too."
  16. Hasn't this biz plan ... by MrCopilot · · Score: 2, Funny
    Hasn't this biz plan already been pateneted by EOLAS?

    Do they know about this?

    On aside note, its Good to see lawyers have work during this Holiday season. I always worry about them during the cold months.

    --
    OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
  17. Yes Im a hippocrite by xmorg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yes Im a hypocrite !
    Hurray for the US Patent office!

  18. Text of the patent... by Scratch-O-Matic · · Score: 2, Funny

    "A system or method of bringing a computer to its knees after an authorized user attempts to execute factory-installed software. Following lock-up, the user is presented with a blue screen which may contain meaningless technical jargon.

    This patent includes a system in which, following lock-up, the user is presented with an animated hour glass.

    This patent includes a system in which, following lock-up, the user is presented with a mouse pointer that won't move.

    This patent includes a system in which, following lock-up, the user is presented with a mouse pointer that moves but won't click.

    This patent includes a system in which, following lock-up, the user is presented with a mouse pointer that moves and clicks on buttons that don't respond."

    --


    Evil is the money of root.
  19. Stands by AND Respects? by erveek · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Microsoft stands behind its products and respects intellectual property rights."

    Just not at the same time.

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    -- This void intentionally left null.