Slashdot Mirror


Hubble finds Mass of White Dwarf

Chris Bradshaw writes "The mass of the nearest white dwarf star to Earth has been measured accurately for the first time. from the article: 'Sirius B is just 12,000 km (7,500 miles) in diameter, similar to Earth, but its mass is 98% that of the Sun. Studying Sirius B has been difficult because of the bright light coming from its neighbour Sirius A, the "Dog Star." The results, published in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, come from astronomers using the Hubble Space Telescope.'"

28 of 126 comments (clear)

  1. More on White Dwarfs... by Cherita+Chen · · Score: 5, Informative
    It's important to note that with out supplemental information from other sources, this would not have been possible. another space-born observatory that has aided greatly in the study of white dwarfs Here

    additionally, more can be found on the white dwarfs in general Here.

    --
    I'm not fat, just big boned...
    1. Re:More on White Dwarfs... by omeg · · Score: 2, Informative

      And here.

  2. It'll be more interesting when they find.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Mass of RED Dwarf

    1. Re:It'll be more interesting when they find.. by phlegmofdiscontent · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's all relative. For years, astronomers have known that Sirius B was about 1 solar mass, plus or minus maybe a tenth. They found this by observing the size of its orbit and its period. This time, using spectroscopy, they can estimate the surface gravity of Sirius B, which will give its radius and mass. There's still uncertainty in the measurement, as in all measurements, but that uncertainty is smaller than previous measurements. Who knows, 20 years from now new techniques could give an even more accurate measure of Sirius B's mass, but one could still say "measured accurately for the first time" since it's better than previous measurements. This is not revolutionary, it's evolutionary.

  3. It's a shame... by chrstphrb · · Score: 5, Interesting
    It is a shame that Hubble is on borrowed time...

    http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050420-1 25927-9641r.htm

    1. Re:It's a shame... by luvirini · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is the way NASA works, ost of the money is spent on admninstration and other things only vaguely related to space and spaceresearch, thus they do not have money to maintain and build actual things.. but then.. NASA sees to be like most goverment agencies, mainly a jobs program and a way to divide contracts to the districts of congressmen. Too bad they lost their way somewhere....

  4. More on Karma Whoring... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
  5. Hubble by jurt1235 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although NASA (or the US goverment, it is all politics) does not want to fund Hubble anymore, the telescope proves that it is valuable every time again. Astronomers just need more time with the equipment to take more readings of an object so that they can catch the details. Is it an idea that a commercial company adopts the Hubble telescope and rents the time on the telescope out again to different agencies around the globe? The price for the adoption could be the operational cost of keeping Hubble in orbit in working order.

    --

    My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
    1. Re:Hubble by bhima · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What's worse is that, with the Hubble Origins Probe: http://www.pha.jhu.edu/hop/, an extremely high value, achievable alternative plan exists.

      The shuttle is not necessary, nor is the not yet designed or built robotic servicing capability. The Hubble Origins Probe could be in orbit by the time the original fails, continuing and extending the original mission while the James Webb mission design, construction, and launch is completed.

      Additionally, if the US ever figures out how to put people back in space, or really does design robotic satellite repair capability the is nothing preventing the Hubble Origins Probe from having an extremely long and productive life.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:Hubble by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Somebody mod parent up. Why does the hubble have to be an either-or solution (vs James Webb/etc)? Just make a new one and launch it - most of the costs of a space probe are for design, and we already have that done - just put the right mirror in, put the consumables in an easily serviced module, etc.

      It has to be cheaper just to build another one than to build a robotic telescope repair system, and launch that!

  6. Interesting Background... by guygee · · Score: 5, Informative

    not mentioned in the article, at http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/Sirius

    Selected excerpt:

    "Sirius A is about twice the size of the sun and about 20 times as luminous. It is also one of the nearest stars, lying at a distance of 8.7 light-years, so that it has been studied extensively. From an analysis of its motions, F. W. Bessel concluded (1844) that it had an unseen companion, which was later (1862) confirmed by observation. The companion, Sirius B, is a white-dwarf star and has also been the object of considerable study because it is the first white dwarf whose spectrum was found to exhibit a gravitational red shift, as predicted by the General Theory of Relativity."

    1. Re:Interesting Background... by MasterPlaid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you're referring to cosmological redshift here - the redshift that makes objects farther away seem redder. You're correct that GR doesn't predict cosmological redshift a priori; cosmological redshift is caused by the expansion of the universe, and GR allows for an expanding universe, a contracting universe, or even a static universe. But GR does demand that gravitational redshift exist. This redshift is caused by the curvature of spacetime by matter which lies at the heart of GR itself, so graivtational redshift is tightly connected to GR, and its observation an important piece of evidence for the theory.

  7. Re:Time to update Wikipedia? by The+Wannabe+King · · Score: 2, Informative
    Yes. If you read on, you'll find the mass of Sirius B given as approximately that of the Sun.

    The upper limit, known as the Chandrasekhar limit, for a white dwarf is 1.4 solar masses (more or less).

  8. More on Anonymous Coward... by HoneyBunchesOfGoats · · Score: 2, Funny
  9. Re:Mods wake up by guygee · · Score: 3, Funny

    Perhaps the Mod thought the parent post was suggesting that "the advanced Siriusian aliens were planning to hit the Earth with Sirius B. Obviously the Siriusians are an advanced corporate culture, and are intent on "downsizing" their system, cutting their aging former stars loose, in an attempt to get lean and (very) mean, and to eliminate possible future competition from other evolving corporatized systems."

  10. Re:Time to update Wikipedia? by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Informative
    Many white dwarfs are approximately the size of the Earth, typically 100 times smaller than the Sun. They may have the same mass as the Sun and so are very compact.

    Do they really vary in density that much?

    Yes. White dwarfs vary in density a whole lot; degenerate gases behave quite oddly. If you add matter to a white dwarf, it actually gets a little smaller. The limit is about 1.4 solar masses, at which point the white dwarf collapses to form a neutron star.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  11. Re:Time to update Wikipedia? by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Informative
    if the mass of a white dwarf goes over 1.4 solar masses, the gravitational collapse is strong enough to trigger a supernova explosion. In other words, at masses greater than the Chandrasekhar limit, the (inward) gravitational pressure overcomes the (outward) thermal/fusion pressure, thus causing a collapse and the ignition of most of the remainder of the stars fuel, thus the supernova explosion.

    Right idea, wrong mechanism.

    A white dwarf is not supported by thermal pressure, or by nuclear fusion; it is supported by degeneracy pressure between electrons, a consequence of the exclusion principle in quantum mechanics that forbids two electrons from occupying the same quantum state.

    1.4 solar masses is correctly given as the critical point at which gravity prevails over the internal pressure; at this point, the star switches from degeneracy pressure between electrons to degeneracy pressure between neutrons, in the process dropping considerably more than the weight of the Sun from the size of the Earth to something more like the size of Belgium, through an enormously strong gravitational field. This releases an awful lot of energy, and is the main power source for such a supernova.

    There's another type of supernova which is driven by fusion, but that's more typical of accretion systems in which the infalling matter has heated the white dwarf sufficiently to reignite fusion processes; then the fusion reaction is an uncontrolled runaway and can wholly disrupt the star.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  12. redshift by t0ddsh3rman · · Score: 2, Informative

    The BBC article cited in the main post has no mention of the redshift associated with this whitedrawf. It just says "The mass calculations are based on how the star's light is distorted by its neighbour's intense gravitational field." This New Scientist article reporting on the same news does mention redshift - I like redshift: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8460&f eedId=space_rss20 Other info on redshit can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift

  13. Sirius? by cdn2k1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Perhaps this is some cleverly disguised viral marketing to promote Howard Stern's move to satellite radio?

  14. White Dwarf... by WolfZombie · · Score: 2, Funny

    White Dwarf needs food badly.

  15. Re:Time to update Wikipedia? by ajpr · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think Neutron stars are around 20km diameter (size of a small city), quite a bit smaller than Belgium. Plus, they often spin very quickly due to the conservation of angular momentum (think of the ice skaters spinning with arms stretched compared to closed thing).

  16. Re:White dwarf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    The politically correct term for this would be "Caucasian little person"


    Or "Caucasian vertically challenged person"
  17. Re:When by stevelinton · · Score: 2, Informative

    Detectig and studying non-luminous objects like Buffy is a lot harder than luminous ones like Sirius B.

  18. Re:Time to update Wikipedia? by Phanatic1a · · Score: 2, Informative

    This releases an awful lot of energy, and is the main power source for such a supernova.

    What type of supernova? Simply collapsing to a neutron star doesn't *cause* a supernova, although a neutron star can be a supernova remnant.

    It sounds like you're saying that if you have a white dwarf sitting there, and it accretes mass from some other source, like a binary companion, when its mass grows to be greater than the C-limit, it collapses into a neutron star, and that the energy released in the collapse generates a supernova.

    That's not the case. If you have a white dwarf sitting there, and it accretes enough mass to go over that limit, then basically what happens is that carbon begins to fuse. It happens everywhere, throughout the star, and you wind up with a carbon detonation supernova, a Type 1a supernova. It's not the energy of gravitational collapse which blows the star apart, it's the new fusion reactions.

  19. Re:Time to update Wikipedia? by Viadd · · Score: 4, Informative
    Right idea, wrong mechanism.

    No, white dwarfs do become fusion-powered supernovae, not gravity-powered. IAAA (I am an astrophysicist.)

    A white dwarf becomes a Type Ia supernova when, at around 1.4 solar masses, the pressure at the center reaches the point where it can burn by fusion the carbon-nitrogen-oxygen left over from previous rounds of burning. This leads to a fusion-driven explosion that gets no net energy from gravitational collapse, leading to an expanding gas cloud that is largely hot iron-group elements.

    There is another class of supernova that is gravitationally driven. Core collapse supernovae are produced when a massive star (>8 solar masses, last I heard) has burned 1.4 solar masses at its center to iron. (The 1.4 solar mass value is semi-coincidental with that in the previous paragraph, based on similar but not identical physics.) This is a gravity-powered supernova that blows the outer parts of the core away, leaving a neutron star or black hole where the core was.

    There is no way for a white dwarf to become a core collapse supernova, the fusion kicks in and blows it apart before that happens.
  20. The Dogon Mystery by writerjosh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Dogon, a tribe in West Africa, are believed to be of Egyptian descent. After living in Libya for a time, they settled in Mali, West Africa, bringing with them astronomy legends dating from before 3200 BCE. In the late 1940s, four of their priests told two French anthropologists of a secret Dogon myths about the star Sirius (8.6 light years from the earth). The priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis.

    All these things happen to be true. But what makes this so remarkable is that the companion star of Sirius, called Sirius B, was first photographed in 1970. While people began to suspect its existence around 1844, it was not seen through a telescope until 1862 -- and even then its great density was not known or understood until the early decades of the twentieth century. The Dogon beliefs, on the other hand, were supposedly thousands of years old.


    http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/thalass2.htm

    1. Re:The Dogon Mystery by serutan · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm glad somebody mentioned the Dogon mystery. It's one of those fascinating things that won't go away. Robert Temple's famous book "The Sirius Mystery" is based mainly on the work of anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who lived among the Dogon for more than 30 years starting in 1931. Critics such as Carl Sagan dismissed the conclusions in Temple's book, theorizing that the Dogon had obtained their astronomical information from modern outside sources. Griaule himself was in fact an amateur astronomer. Dieterlen countered these criticisms by displaying Dogon artifacts that dated back hundreds of years.

      More recently another team of anthropologists led by Walter Van Beek did a 10-year study of the Dogon, beginning in 1991. Van Beek, who managed to speak to some of the same individuals who had known Griaule and Dieterlen, said these Dogon disagreed completely with each other as to which star was meant. Some said it was an invisible star, others said it was Venus. But all of them agreed that they learned about the star from Griaule.

  21. Re:Time to update Wikipedia? by Viadd · · Score: 3, Informative

    You are right that the gravitational binding energy of a white dwarf is comparable to the fusion energy of its combustion from carbon to iron. However, comparable doesn't mean equal and if you work it out, the fusion energy dominates. The gravitational energy is negative, so it reduces the amount of available energy for the supernova (i.e. the ejecta are moving more slowly because it has to climb out of its own gravity well), but it is still energetically favorable to go from a dense chunk of carbon to an expanding diffuse cloud of iron.